Crash course on the 1.7.3 Combat System (by the person who wrote it)

[thelonewarrior 886]

So tested out 1.7.3, doesnt work at all for the combat system

When Im in combat, my abort key takes a good 5 seconds at least before it becomes unavalible, this is not lag, ive tried multiple servers.

Fired at someone, they quit and server hopped trying to kill me again.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but combat seems exactly the same to me :(

What am I missing here? (note I havent tried the abort button even though its still able to be pressed for 5 seconds even when in combat)

No offense meant, but nothing seems to have changed

I was playing on an updated 1.7.3 server and no message came up when he disconnected, he probably used control, alt, and delete and closed the game with task manager

I know the update is working as the zombies are falling down much faster

EDIT: All the other updates seem to work fine, hopefully its just my internet connection lagging the abort button, i noticed it was disabled in one server so it could just be lag causing the abort button to not work, but still not seeing messages when people quit

Edited October 31, 2012 by Regulator Lone Warrior

[venthos 605]

I honestly haven't had a chance to test 1.7.3 and I've been slammed with other stuff with my day job and Redux. I just looked enough through the repo to verify parts of my combat system were in use for 1.7.3 when that announcement was made. If that's the case and it's not working properly, that's a shame. I know the community dev team that I'm now involved with for DayZ Community Edition has been hard at work thoroughly testing features, though. I'm curious if anyone else has had these issues. Now that I'll be be present for the start of the next push, I'll try and audit the system and see what's up. It works great in Redux, so it should be easily fixable if something is awry.

[WalkerDown (DayZ) 296]

Just to clarify: If you post on this thread again I will issue you a temporary posting ban. If you are not happy with this situation please contact Griff with your concerns.

I'm not breaking any rules, and the patches is out, and we're seeing the effect already! I'm not sure why you would censore me from criticizing this modification to find a better solution.

In example 10 minutes of gameplay where enough to find that the range used is totally wrong and it's causing a lot of issue, to we already need a new patch with it reduced to 20 meters or even less.

I don't understand why i should stop to post in this thread. And yes i'm sending this to Griff so he may gives to me an explanation of why i can't "talk".. (i'm not offending anyone).

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

You haven't sent anything to Griff, you've reported it. That sends it to us mods. I've asked another mod to take a look so that you don't feel I have a personal vendetta. Regarding this issue, this thread is not the place to discuss it.

[griffinz 2816]

You havent warranted a temp suspension, but I highly recommend that once your point has been addressed, you move on. There is absolutely no need to inflame the situation when your issue has been made clear to the parties involved.

[tced 45]

ok... finally read the entire thread to this point, man you guys can go on & on.

Question about this feature-

Seems the term "Combat" includes any & all weapons fire, such as killing an animal, which is not combat, but survival. I see DayZ as a "survival" game mainly, not a combat (pvp) game. I love the fact that to "survive" you must at times kill other players ingame, it's one of the best parts of the game.

My question is, why is "combat" thrown as a blanket over all weapons fire, killing animals for food, letting a mate know your location, throwing flares/cans, ect...?

This feature has merit & would be awesome, if it actually dealt with & only with, actual combat engagement, not throwing a can. It seems that due to the dislike from the community of a player being denied the trophy of a kill by someone logging off during actual combat, which I agree with, now has to suffer a broad stroke over every type of weapons fire/throwing an object, which is kinda like using a nuke to kill a flee.

Again, I like the idea of the feature & believe it to be valid, but the Arma2 engine/game does not allow at this time the detailed distinction between what is actual combat vs using your weapon for food or maybe it does & that has not yet been implemented in the development of the feature, ether way... it would have been better to wait until it does or leave it out & use in the standalone version which would possibly be able to support the type of distinction needed for this feature.

Edited October 31, 2012 by TCEd

[RooBurger 285]

Venthos, your shit made it into the most popular mod, and the breakthrough success of the year. That's amazing, I hope you're fucking proud of yourself.

As for the people using your code without permission, remember that imitation is the highest form of flattery.

[WalkerDown (DayZ) 296]

ok... finally read the entire thread to this point, man you guys can go on & on.

Question about this feature-

Seems the term "Combat" includes any & all weapons fire, such as killing an animal, which is not combat, but survival. I see DayZ as a "survival" game mainly, not a combat (pvp) game. I love the fact that to "survive" you must at times kill other players ingame, it's one of the best parts of the game.

Even throwing a can apparently... that's what we saying: it's too open to be abused (trolling), as designed it cannot distinguish from a real combat than any other operation, but even if it could distinguish a fireweapon, the problem remains: it couldn't know if it's YOU in combat or someone else 70 meters away.

You can force someone in combat by simply use your hatchet every 30 seconds. :D

It's a good start.. but not mature to be released, i hope it will be reverted back with a new patch.

[Toastedzen 80]

* [NEW] New Combat System If you fire a weapon' date=' someone fires a weapon near you, or a bullet/object impacts near you, then you go into combat. During combat, "ABORT" is disabled. If you ALT-F4/close anyway, your character is considered "combat logged" and instantly killed and leaves a body.[/quote']

Still not completely certain how this is supposed to work. What if you are with a friendly, he/she says goodbye and starts shooting at rabbits or goats while you log off for the night. Are you then dead upon respawn? Is there a counter for the Combat System or some kind of HUD which lets you know that it is active? How will this affect the 60-70% of players still trying to survive on scripter infected servers? With the super high level of body counts people are already sporting in this game, I am curious as to how this fixes a problem. Not to say that this would be a good idea on a complete cheat/hack free game (or at least a game with console level map exploits) but in this game?

Out of all of the changes in this update this is the one which probably deserves a developer explanation thread to settle any uncertainty. Or am I missing some notes on this somewhere?

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

This has been explained quite a few times in the main thread by the guy that initially wrote the system. If your friend is near you and knows you're trying to log off but decides to start shooting at rabbits, you simply can't log off. Ask him to stop. If he does, 30 seconds later you can log off. If he refuses to stop because he thinks its funny, shoot him in the head. 30 seconds after you dome him you will be able to log off. There is a timer displayed on screen.

If you close your program through other means, you will be flagged as a combat logger in the server logs and a message is displayed to everyone on the server. The admin can then decide what to do with you. You will not die as that part has been removed from the update. You will just be shunned and hopefully banned if you attempt to combat log.

[Toastedzen 80]

Thanks for the update. I have been reading further on down through the thread and found just what you are referring too. Admins, you can send this to the graveyard ;)

Edited November 1, 2012 by Toastedzen

[avalontreman 89]

If you close your program through other means, you will be flagged as a combat logger in the server logs and a message is displayed to everyone on the server. The admin can then decide what to do with you. You will not die as that part has been removed from the update. You will just be shunned and hopefully banned if you attempt to combat log.

Not to derail the thread, but why did they take this out? I thought this would be a fitting punishment for those that found ways to combat log

[Creep- 569]

What about people with unstable/wireless connections? I know a few guys that get d/c uncontrollably..

[Parasprite 35]

Not to derail the thread, but why did they take this out? I thought this would be a fitting punishment for those that found ways to combat log

According to Venthos they didn't want to take the risk of admins of main hive servers abusing it by shooting at people then kicking them.

[Om Nerabdator 1]

Cant change clothes/eat/drink in a vehilce anymore??? WHY THE HELL NOT!!!! you can do that in real life so why not here??

#5 CaptainXL

Survivor

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Posted Today, 03:54 PM

What about people with unstable/wireless connections? I know a few guys that get d/

I have wireless and i get kickedoff pretty frequently depending on diff servers

[sheriffhd 61]

What about people with unstable/wireless connections? I know a few guys that get d/c uncontrollably..

buy a 30m Ethernet cable from ebay for £4, shitty wifi no longer is an issue then.

[Om Nerabdator 1]

i use the wifi off my phone so no ethernet cable for me

[Michaelvoodoo25 3120]

Ask him to stop. If he refuses to stop because he thinks its funny, shoot him in the head. 30 seconds after you dome him you will be able to log off.

This will catch on between the best of friends!

[SmashT 10907]

Threads merged.

[RooBurger 285]

Cant change clothes/eat/drink in a vehilce anymore??? WHY THE HELL NOT!!!! you can do that in real life so why not here??

to prevent duping.

[Bacon Surfboard 61]

Even throwing a can apparently... that's what we saying: it's too open to be abused (trolling), as designed it cannot distinguish from a real combat than any other operation, but even if it could distinguish a fireweapon, the problem remains: it couldn't know if it's YOU in combat or someone else 70 meters away.

Oh shut up.

When was the last time someone sat there throwing cans at you? If someone is sat there throwing cans then just blow their head off.

Your points are contrived and weak. This fix has been shown to work "In controlled conditions" as you put it, and you now assert they won't work out in the wild. Well forgive us all for not taking your word for it, I'd rather actually like to see it TESTED out in the wild. Since you know, it's Alpha...

The only thing I have to say about the code itself is.

A) Thanks Vanthos for the effort in, I hardly ever post here any more exactly because it's full of borderline retards but felt you should know you're getting much love from the silent majority. People are TALKING about dayZ now and logging back in because of you.

B) I had a buddy firing at a few Zeds next to me and it never triggered combat for me once.

C) We all got teleport hacked, I managed to log out - someone opened fire and my buddy got stuck and died. This is down to the hackers not your code and I understand that, but could there possibly be any potential for turning combat logging off if say there are more than 15 people within a 20m radius (I have never seen as like "in the wild)? failing that they should get your kind of talent into the anti-hacks side of things.

Appreciated, much love from me and the 6 other people who are now logging on with me who won't be saying thanks on here but now looking forwards to playing again, you have all our gratitude.

[WalkerDown (DayZ) 296]

Oh shut up.

I guess you mean "stop writing".. anyway the answer is: no.

When was the last time someone sat there throwing cans at you? If someone is sat there throwing cans then just blow their head off.

Dunno if you're serious or having 0.1% of your brain working this morning.. the can was an example of how someone may "troll" without even using a weapon.

I'd rather actually like to see it TESTED out in the wild. Since you know, it's Alpha...

First day is enough to say: this is not working. Let's wait for the next "iteration"...

[Slyguy65 499]

50 meters!!!!!????

I kind of understand the whole 70m initiation of attack but da fuq if some stray shot hits 50 meters in my area im in combat....

The distance should be way less maybe 15-20 meters....

example- You said you want people to be able to just shoot at a building to keep the person "pinned down" essentially....well heres my gripe. It the person is "hiding" in that building i think it is only right to force the attacker to actually shoot at the point where the person in the building is...

elaborated- If im in an apartment or the school/office and im on the top and they are on the bottom they can just fire a bullet randomly every 15 seconds or so to keep me locked in...OR better yet one person and his buddy are taking advantage of the combat or "locking" system. One just shoots a shot every few seconds. While the other sneaks in and kills the other.

To be honest that could be a good thing...idk i would have to play it for a bit before forming a complete opinion on the distance. Even then it won't matter not like i could tweak the distance anyway.

[venthos 605]

What you describe, Slyguy65, is precisely the situations that this system attempts to enforce and allow. Yes, people should be able to lock you into a building by firing a bullet every 29 seconds or less. It gives away their position, keeps themselves in combat, and in the event of a buddy keeps their buddy in combat. If anything, them giving away their position/presence gives you the upper hand. But even then, this isn't a "fair fight enforcer" it's a combat system aimed at forcing you to confront your attackers (and also confront your victims if you suddenly lose the upper hand on the victim).

While I feel 50m is just dandy, we're going with a more conservative value for official DayZ. It's already planned on being dropped to 30m for fired near (down from 70) and 15m for bullet/object impacting near (down from 50). At least those are the tentative values for next patch (they may change before then). But, those situations you exclaim would still be quite possible (which is intended).

[Mos1ey 6301]

Is the combat icon still there? There shouldn't be an icon showing that someone has used a hatchet near you when you wouldn't know otherwise. You should only know by the abort button being disabled. :S

Good work apart from that.