Crash course on the 1.7.3 Combat System (by the person who wrote it)

[DemonGroover 8836]

I just think it's great that modders like youself are now officially getting involved in future mod updates. I play on Redux servers as well as a few other mods and i think a collaborated community effort can only lead to good things.

Good for us all as i am sure any new feature added into the mod which is warmly received will make its way into the Standalone.

What about your Chernarus Redux additions?

[spankerfist 44]

:thumbsup: :beans: Sounds great. Gonna try out a redux server.

[venthos 605]

Legal / Rights / etc.

You misunderstand me. My gut reaction isn't "I want to seek legal action". It's "wow, having this happen to my code (the two independent projects yanking 100% of my code) makes me want to never create anything else". That's not what's happening (yet?), but I guess you and I have different reactions towards this sort of thing. I even have been refusing donations to Redux until I at least feel lag/desync has been stabilized suitably, and even then I will only accept up to the limit of the two dedicated servers I'm leasing for the project. Any extras (again if I even ever accept donations) I would turn around and use to buy DayZ standalone copies for my player base in a raffle. That's how much I *don't* want money. I just want my code to be respected and myself as a developer to be respected. Not getting respect simply makes you want to stop doing what you're doing... not sue someone.

But, regardless, let's get this back on track to the combat system and any questions thereof ;P

Non-litigious stuff

Yeah, i'm with you.

Edited October 30, 2012 by Venthos

[xx_fr0st-w0lf_xx 53]

You misunderstand me. My gut reaction isn't "I want to seek legal action". It's "wow, having this happen to my code (the two independent projects yanking 100% of my code) makes me want to never create anything else". That's not what's happening (yet?), but I guess you and I have different reactions towards this sort of thing. I even have been refusing donations to Redux until I at least feel lag/desync has been stabilized suitably, and even then I will only accept up to the limit of the two dedicated servers I'm leasing for the project. Any extras (again if I even ever accept donations) I would turn around and use to buy DayZ standalone copies for my player base in a raffle. That's how much I *don't* want money. I just want my code to be respected and myself as a developer to be respected. Not getting respect simply makes you want to stop doing what you're doing... not sue someone.

But, regardless, let's get this back on track to the combat system and any questions thereof ;P

Yeah, i'm with you.

Wow its people like you that restore my faith in humanity

I really hope the best happens for you, but people that steal other peoples shit and don't even credit the original author is just disgusting. They asked for help and just stole your code.

Like someone else said they will never be able to know the code and improve it as good as you, in the end a copycat is a copycat and the original will always stand out among the others

[rugbyrat 0]

i look forward to trying this new system. Thanks Venthos and all for implementing it!

[james222 49]

imo shit system.

[SmashT 10907]

imo shit system.

You must be a combat logger.

Personally I think the impact objects near you (50m) range is too high, I expected it to be <20m.

Edited October 31, 2012 by smasht_AU

[Qintwoguns 0]

hackers and bandits will be so happy in 1.7.3 :)

[14:11:14] Qin: [Complaint] But someone can just keep me logged in by firing at a building I'm in!

[Response] Absolutely. This is intended. Why? Because it comes at risk to the attacker. They have to expend bullets and reveal their position/potentially aggro zombies. This gives you the upper hand in most situations by allowing you to know exactly where they are and they don't know for sure where you are. They also draw attention to themselves from other survivors. If they're willing to accept those risk/expenses, why shouldn't they be allowed to stop someone from combat logging on them like a coward?

Guys who use SILENCED weapon would owned everyone :) like a boss.

Lets talk about tactics. A bandit raid group will easily assembles guy with silenced m4 to suppress targets without be compermise and others can try to flank/firecover at same time . Expenses? One mag can last for up to 900 sec "suppress" effect....

From my point of view, new combat system means once u get locked on by bandit group or hackers, lol either wait for ur dead arrives or become combat logger.

However I aggree to set some restriction on alt+f4.

btw I doubt Is there anyone aware of abnormally murder increases today compare to day2 after BE 1.183 lol

Edited October 31, 2012 by Qintwoguns

[SmashT 10907]

Lets talk about tactics. A bandit raid group will easily assembles guy with silenced m4 to suppress targets without be compermise and others can try to flank/firecover at same time . Expenses? One mag can last for up to 900 sec "suppress" effect....

From my point of view, new combat system means once u get locked on by bandit group or hackers, lol either wait for ur dead arrives or try to exploit.

A group of players working together should have the advantage especially if one is keeping you pinned. Why should you be able to combat log because there are bandits outside, that's stupid. Either fight back, run or take the death. Silenced weapons have the same advantage they always did if you didn't disconnect every time you got shot at by one.

Edited October 31, 2012 by smasht_AU

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

I like this system. Could the humanity system tie into it to help determine self defense kills?

Keep up the good work and don't mind the rippers. The people that matter thank you for your hard work.

Edited October 31, 2012 by SausageKingofChicago

[WalkerDown (DayZ) 296]

It won't change much guys, it would have changed (in the worse) if they have used the "kill" punishment, but with just a message in the chat none would care about. When ppl will start to moan they cannot quit (i mean normal quitting, in example in a building coz you need to take a piss while outside there's an idiot with a makarov), they will simply kill the process, and after some days it will be so common that the only thing we'll have will be the chat continuosly spammed by this messages.. nor because of combat loggers, but because of ppl that wants just to quit, coz this is a damn videogame.

I espect the poor no-life/unltrafundamentalist admins to start to ban those chaps as soon they read a "combat logging" notice, and those chaps to come back here on the forum to explain that they just wanted to quit but the damn buggy game didn't want let em to quit whenever there were none shooting around, after a week of forum accusing and shit, we'll continue to play "as is" but having this annoying unnecessary messages in the chat.

Now bookmark this post and then call me Nostradamus in a few days.

[Genocide Pete 0]

Suppressed weapons shouldn't be made to trigger a combat engagement if surrounding players are outside audible range. This essentially alerts players of another's presence when they otherwise might not be alerted through normal game mechanics.

[Qintwoguns 0]

A group of players working together should have the advantage especially if one is keeping you pinned. Why should you be able to combat log because there are bandits outside, that's stupid. Either fight back, run or take the death. Silenced weapons have the same advantage they always did if you didn't disconnect every time you got shot at by one.

With all my respect, First what kinda pinned down will happen while an idiot shooting around 50m in real world??? As far as I know m203 gl or rpg only has 25m maximum damege range lol. Second u talk about fight back oh ya. its nothing about group/solo. Bandit raid can keep bunch of targets inside cover or building now. U REALLY know what's that means? That means oh once bandits found their targets some of them switch to other server to flank lol and others keep targets "pinned" . lol then assault team will "appear" wherever they want. Think about this now lol attacker can exploit without any restriction but.... About retreat what make u think anyone can successfully retreat against bunch of exploit flankers? That happnes everyday at elektro lol Once again with all my respect I think u definetly never faced any trained bandit raids nor become one of them lol

What about hackers? Oh ...

Edited October 31, 2012 by Qintwoguns

[v1ktor 59]

attention whore +1

[WalkerDown (DayZ) 296]

With all my respect...

The reality is that most of ppl here cannot think on a long term, neither they think at the consequences, probably because they didn't have to do so in real life. It's that type of person that you meet blaballing at the pub about how a nuclear weapon dropped on that country would "solve the problem".

Usually these persons, after facing the consequences, comes back again complaining about how bad was that solution after they have supported it!

That's what happening here.. luckily we managed to wake em up and they recoverd a 0.1% of their brain to REMOVE the kill punishment, so they can figure how this system is flawed without much consequences. Anyway no matter how long you may explain em why this isn't going to work.. they need to see with their eyes, because (as i said) they cannot think on long term, they cannot see beyond their nose, they must hit the wall:

- Gawd! That damn idiot just quit in front of my.. i would have killed him! [RAGEEEEEEEEEEE] - Let's punish those cowards with this intelligent system!!!

(a day after)

- Damn i can't quit coz there's someone shooting a single bullet on that building every 30 second.

- Damn someone spawned at my back while i'm here waiting to quit by 10 minutes already!

- Damn the hacker tipped al of us there and i can't quit!

- Damn that idiot is trowing the fookin can everytime .. and i can't quit!

- That idiot is trying to be stealth with his silenced weapon, but he didn't realized that i can magically listen at him with my powerful digital alarm;

- i can continue until tomorrow...

[SmashT 10907]

If there are hackers then people are going to combat log regardless and it's up to server admins to determine why.

Not a fan of the HUD telling you that you are in combat though, especially if you wouldn't know otherwise. I'd reduce the distance to <20m and remove the HUD notification personally. A logout timer that doesn't reset every bullet could also work but instead just forces you to stand still for the 30 or so seconds.

Edited October 31, 2012 by smasht_AU

[Qintwoguns 0]

The reality is that most of ppl here cannot think on a long term, neither they think at the consequences, probably because they didn't have to do so in real life. It's that type of person that you meet blaballing at the pub about how a nuclear weapon dropped on that country would "solve the problem".

Usually these persons, after facing the consequences, comes back again complaining about how bad was that solution after they have supported it!

That's what happening here.. luckily we managed to wake em up and they recoverd a 0.1% of their brain to REMOVE the kill punishment, so they can figure how this system is flawed without much consequences. Anyway no matter how long you may explain em why this isn't going to work.. they need to see with their eyes, because (as i said) they cannot think on long term, they cannot see beyond their nose, they must hit the wall:

- Gawd! That damn idiot just quit in front of my.. i would have killed him! [RAGEEEEEEEEEEE] - Let's punish those cowards with this intelligent system!!!

(a day after)

- Damn i can't quit coz there's someone shooting a single bullet on that building every 30 second.

- Damn someone spawned at my back while i'm here waiting to quit by 10 minutes already!

- Damn the hacker tipped al of us there and i can't quit!

- Damn that idiot is trowing the fookin can everytime .. and i can't quit!

- That idiot is trying to be stealth with his silenced weapon, but he didn't realized that i can magically listen at him with my powerful digital alarm;

- i can continue until tomorrow...

That's exactly what Im thinking dude.

" That idiot is trying to be stealth with his silenced weapon, but he didn't realized that i can magically listen at him with my powerful digital alarm"

lol U enlight me forget this issue.

Edited October 31, 2012 by Qintwoguns

[brandon_warmus@yahoo.com 0]

Pull your internet cable out and lose connection.

[Qintwoguns 0]

If there are hackers then people are going to combat log regardless and it's up to server admins to determine why.

lol Last time us 3345 admin banned everyone in server that time 3 hacker respawned heli and tipped others together include me and my friends. We were not using any fvcking hack our cd-key alive after ban waves. Most funny part is it was me email him to check server log. What make admin have to care about circumstance? Like WalkerDown said new system for private hive maybe okay but offical is different story. For me better get punishment killed then add into blacklist banned in some circumstance.

and btw I killed at least 30 guys never let anyone combat logged. Most assault rilfe 3 body shots killed. For Sniper rifle 2 shots. Is that so hard to instant kill?

Edited October 31, 2012 by Qintwoguns

[venthos 605]

Lots of rage

I've been laughing at how angry you've been this whole thread, camping it and constantly lashing out about it. All the while, you haven't even played with it on. I have (and with the kill effect on). So have up to 1273 other people (the DayZ Redux whitelist size). There were a few concerns starting off and shakiness. But, since then it's been running for a month and I am having issues getting enough servers quickly enough to handle the player base. You seem to overestimate how often you're actually in combat.

I am quite sure there will be lots of server admins that disregard combat logging altogether, and possibly just as many who enforce it. That's kind of one of the reasons for not forcing the kill effect in official DayZ. People will get to decide to play on a server that welcomes combat logging, or bans for it. The key here being player choice.

Personally I won't ever play on a server without a combat system (one with kill switch on) ever again after playing on servers with it on for the past month. It's nice having actual fights occur versus someone logging out because they don't have the upper hand.

That's the biggest complaint I'm seeing. "But what if the situation is stacked against me and I have no chance at winning?" Then the combat system is working and forcing you to confront your attackers/die. It's not a "fair fight enforcer". It's a system to make sure you play out an encounter.

As said many times before, server admins will just have to use logic and reason when perusing the logs to not punish people who combat log against hackers.

I still am thoroughly amused by your "prediction" when this system has already been in use for a month solid on my servers and I can't keep up with the player demand. Not everyone will like it, but it's not going to be some big surprise outcome either. It's been field tested for a month by up to over 1,200 survivors.

Please continue to speculate. I'll continue to speak from a month of experience. It's not a perfect system. Not everyone will like it or enforce it. But, it works reasonably well and has been proven effective.

[venthos 605]

Pull your internet cable out and lose connection.

It doesn't matter how you disconnect. ANY disconnect fires off a combat log. You can't evade the system. It works. The only situation in which you won't throw a combat log for disconnect while in combat is if the server restarts or shuts down while you're in combat. That's it. Beyond that, no cable pulling or process termination will save you.

[Qintwoguns 0]

I've been laughing at how angry you've been this whole thread, camping it and constantly lashing out about it. All the while, you haven't even played with it on. I have (and with the kill effect on). So have up to 1273 other people (the DayZ Redux whitelist size). There were a few concerns starting off and shakiness. But, since then it's been running for a month and I am having issues getting enough servers quickly enough to handle the player base. You seem to overestimate how often you're actually in combat.

I am quite sure there will be lots of server admins that disregard combat logging altogether, and possibly just as many who enforce it. That's kind of one of the reasons for not forcing the kill effect in official DayZ. People will get to decide to play on a server that welcomes combat logging, or bans for it. The key here being player choice.

Personally I won't ever play on a server without a combat system (one with kill switch on) ever again after playing on servers with it on for the past month. It's nice having actual fights occur versus someone logging out because they don't have the upper hand.

That's the biggest complaint I'm seeing. "But what if the situation is stacked against me and I have no chance at winning?" Then the combat system is working and forcing you to confront your attackers/die. It's not a "fair fight enforcer". It's a system to make sure you play out an encounter.

As said many times before, server admins will just have to use logic and reason when perusing the logs to not punish people who combat log against hackers.

I still am thoroughly amused by your "prediction" when this system has already been in use for a month solid on my servers and I can't keep up with the player demand. Not everyone will like it, but it's not going to be some big surprise outcome either. It's been field tested for a month by up to over 1,200 survivors.

Please continue to speculate. I'll continue to speak from a month of experience. It's not a perfect system. Not everyone will like it or enforce it. But, it works reasonably well and has been proven effective.

1. That's month of experience for pritvate hive not pub. Beside 1200 pls playing doesn't mean all of them support new combat system lol

2. "the combat system is working and forcing you to confront your attackers/die. It's not a "fair fight enforcer."

pls tell me not for a fair fight what's the meaning of this system? Becuz combat logger make attack side unfair so they wanna change. Use different words won't make things different.

3."I still am thoroughly amused by your "prediction" when this system has already been in use for a month solid on my servers and I can't keep up with the player demand"

Frankly you sound like some of Wall Street enconomists before 2010. If his scenario won't happen can u explain why? U said system not perfect so why not try to make it perfect?

Edited October 31, 2012 by Qintwoguns

[brandon_warmus@yahoo.com 0]

Sorry for those that have storms and real connection issues. the system is one sided

[WalkerDown (DayZ) 296]

I've been laughing at how angry you've been this whole thread,

This proves that you have no skill at all to handle all of this.. why? Coz you cannot distnguish a moaning bitch, from an user (me) that is explaining what's wrong with your thinking and why this is going to affect the "average" user.

I'm NOT the average user, i will the one that WILL EXPLOIT this system taking advantage of it (so it is GOOD FOR ME). Then why i'm against it? It's because i have enough brain to understand that my personal advantage may break the game and so i won't have fun anymore: no players = no kills / more cheaters = less fun.

You have tested this system on a single server, you didn't have faced the reality of this mod.. people are going to server hop to abuse of it, other idiots are going to troll, and you don't even have to wait the first cheater to figure why this system won't works.

But again.. you need to face the reality, and then you'll come back here on the forum (if you have a face) to say: well.. you were right.

Good luck.

[boneboys 7988]

@ WalkerDown

You have made your point.

If the system is found to be inadequate it will be removed or modified.

Deal with it.