The Most Overlooked Part of DayZ - What will happen to it in the Standalone?

[Timberwolf (DayZ) 118]

I am excited to the DayZ standalone as much as the next guy. It's great to see all the improvements they are doing to the alpha release of the standalone and I can't even imagine how it would look like in a year or so. However, all I see is people talking about the new items, customization, harsher environments, new maps... The fact is, the most important part of DayZ is being overlooked. Wait for it... Come on I think you can figure it out... THE FREAKING ZOMBIES! That's right, no matter how much everything else improves if no major changes to the zombies is made DayZ will never be able to shine completely.

Rocket already said that improvements to the zombies/infected will be made and I know that's true. More zombies, better zombie AI, better pathfinding, etc but that won't just cut it in my view, not in the long run at least. We need a dynamic world where zombies just don't pop and stand around, I want behavior! I want to go to big cities afraid of the hundreds of dangerous zombies that are there, not because there is a bandit with a sniper. Even if there is one, I want zombies to gather in that area and proceed to try getting into the building and reaching him and as more noise he makes shooting other players even more zombies flock to the area and try to get him (The Mall in Dawn of the Dead is a good example of this). I want that zombies "drop by drop" start heading to the zones with more player activity and noise, such as for example a big clan base (as rocket said we will be able to create them) with lots of activity and careless players (The Umbrella base in the middle of nowhere in RE: Extinction is a good example). I want that zombies will be scattered around ALL the map and not just specific spawn areas (with cities having the bigger amount of zombies and mountains and forests with very few of them). On top of all that, a single player with a 1911 or a Winchester should not be able to kill all the zombies he faces as long as he has enough ammo, small groups of players should live true hell when facing large numbers of zombies where killing them is just a way to buy some time to escape and not to clear a area (take a look at the Walking Dead episodes featuring Shane and Otis where stealth is the way to go but when you get spotted by a big number of them your weapons are means to keep zombies away while you escape), this off course in areas with a high zombie population since lonewolf players should be able to clear small villages if they are good at it. For big areas a well organized group of players would be needed to effectively clear a zone for some time.

Basically, for the zombies to become a real threat and really dangerous in a good way (not overpowered Usain Bolt way) we need thousands of well balanced zombies around the map with a dynamic mob behavior where player actions affect their positioning and movement around the map. The problems I see here is that not only this would have to be well balanced but also that I have no idea if this is possible to implement with current software/hardware limitations or even possible code wise. For all intents and purposes it would have to be something to be developed with care and for the long run.

I just want that the central part of DayZ (the zombies/infected) to actually become the biggest threat players will face and that the actions taken by players affect the way zombies behave in a large scale making them effectively more dangerous and unpredictable. This coupled with the harsher environment we will see in the standalone will make for the best survival experience available.

EDIT: Damn that was a lot of text. No harsh feeling if you don't read it. ahah

Edited October 11, 2012 by Timberwolf

[boxman80 964]

I second this. Excellent post and it is truly something that needs to be worked towards within this (or other) games.

[OrLoK 16185]

hello there

I'm fairly sure that Zed behavior will be vastly modified. They'd be a bit daft not to massively overhaul it.

Wait for those Reviews before purchase IMHO.

rgds

LoK

[Bat (DayZ) 230]

Yeah but what you describe is a dream game man, I don't think you imagine how much ressources it would take to have those hundred zombies with perfect complex AI responding to every single sound and whatever in an ONLINE game with 50 other players. What we have in DayZ is ALREADY a gift and a real impressive piece of coding (compared to WarZ for instance ahaha), no matter what people who know nothing about developing a game might say.

Really IMO more zombies are not necessary. If they can run in buildings and are more reactive with smoother and more terryfing animations (think 28 days later) then it would be awesome.

So I agree but I don't have much expectations because the more you are ambitious with a game the more bugs and performance issues come and can kill all the project at once.

EDIT :

Now improvement should come from pathfinding and attack animations. Like if they were able to attempt to grab you at close range and you would have to defend yourself with melee attacks so you don't get bitten, it would be intense. Or they could make you fall and then you would fight on the ground, trying to shove them in a desperate last move... Not like a QTE, it would not be "click on a button to break the grab", more like "try everything you can to break the grab, but you have more chances to end up dead because you shouldn't have let this zed come THAT close in the first place"

Edited October 11, 2012 by Bat

[Timberwolf (DayZ) 118]

Yeah but what you describe is a dream game man, I don't think you imagine how much ressources it would take to have those hundred zombies with perfect complex AI responding to every single sound and whatever in an ONLINE game with 50 other players. What we have in DayZ is ALREADY a gift and a real impressive piece of coding (compared to WarZ for instance ahaha), no matter what people who know nothing about developing a game might say.

Really IMO more zombies are not necessary. If they can run in buildings and are more reactive with smoother and more terryfing animations (think 28 days later) then it would be awesome.

So I agree but I don't have much expectations because the more you are ambitious with a game the more bugs and performance issues come and can kill all the project at once.

You got it spot on, a dream game. I hope I will see that game some day, I really do. DayZ is doing a good job so far.

Regarding the rest, I would really like someone from the dev team to crush my dreams right here and say that such a complex system will only be possible in 5 years or something so that I can put my mind into rest on this subject.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Timberwolf

[DieBrotmafia 79]

All that needs to happen is this:

- Better pathfinding

- Zombies running in buildings as well

Thats pretty much it, zombies would be pretty dangerous. You could even make them slightly faster compared to the player to increase the danger a lot. Thousands of slow-walking zombies simply won't happen in the next 5 years or so and it would not even be a threat anyway.

[mibz0r 141]

There has to be a point though were Zeds are a threat but not TOO much because it would make it Zombie killing only (like COD zombies), no survival, no "game" as such, too many and too intelligent would make it so that all you ever do is join, kill Zeds and die, some of us (I would hope) want to be able to actually do more than just kill Zeds, yes Zeds need better AI but there has to be a bit of balance and what I see you as asking for is a little too much of Zeds and little else.

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

The potential is there, obviously.

DayZ as it stands, is a 'proof of' concept, basically just to see if an online zombie apocalypse sim was possible. It's been a huge success.

When it comes to the full release, this is only the very beginning, the tip of the iceberg for zombie AI, grouping/hoarding behaviour, reaction to player input etc.

The future of DayZ is unwritten, and Rockets' ideas (from what I've seen) sound amazing.

It's not a matter of "is it possible?". More a case of "how do we make it possible?"

Zombies should be the focus of players attention. Zombie media tells us: In a zombie apocalypse, when you start to get complacent, you get dead.

No matter how much survival or PvP or disease and health management are added - Zombies should constantly be a MAJOR threat.

They might be stupid, but they're not going to stop until they eat you.

[Timberwolf (DayZ) 118]

There has to be a point though were Zeds are a threat but not TOO much because it would make it Zombie killing only (like COD zombies), no survival, no "game" as such, too many and too intelligent would make it so that all you ever do is join, kill Zeds and die, some of us (I would hope) want to be able to actually do more than just kill Zeds, yes Zeds need better AI but there has to be a bit of balance and what I see you as asking for is a little too much of Zeds and little else.

What? The more the zombies and the more dangerous they are the more the game becomes "survival". And you will be able to do much more than just kill zombies, miss the part where rocket is adding tons of stuff to the standalone? I also don't want intelligent zombies, what's intelligent of hearing gunshots and heading that way? That happens in every zombie related media. Zombies as they are are just a minimal part of the game, I want them to become the bigger picture, that's it. I don't quite understand your point. EDIT: If you mean that you are "afraid" of zombies becoming overpowered I totally agree with you, there needs to be a balance so that it doesn't become impossible to survive zombies.

All that needs to happen is this:

- Better pathfinding

- Zombies running in buildings as well

Thats pretty much it, zombies would be pretty dangerous. You could even make them slightly faster compared to the player to increase the danger a lot. Thousands of slow-walking zombies simply won't happen in the next 5 years or so and it would not even be a threat anyway.

No offense but you got somewhat low standards mate. It will still be a good improvement compared to the current zombies though.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Timberwolf

[St. Jimmy 1631]

OP is right.

If zombies become harder the way that OP said it will force people to teamwork and not to go "lulz ima banditos i kil evrione l33t epic"

[Erizid 56]

Zombies will be the main threat again. Besides making them able to actually follow you through buildings, they are optimizing their models. What this means is, among other things, they are removing each individual finger-bone skeleton animation. So now they might be able to triple the amount of zombies present in a big city. Also, with the demise of tent-duping, people will have to work together to secure gear, thus establishing good behavior toward our fellow man in the future.

With more zombies spawning and the fact that they will run through buildings, expect fewer and fewer instances of someone sniping from the apartments in Cherno.

[ZomboWTF 527]

Rocket already said that improvements to the zombies/infected will be made and I know that's true. More zombies, better zombie AI, better pathfinding, etc

Rocket says something about changing zombies, and you feel like it's been overlooked?

wut?

edit: I agree though, zombies should be ALL over the map, harder, and be able to run in houses (which they plan to fix anyway)

pathing needs also a fix, and then everyone will be happy

Edited October 11, 2012 by Zombo

[Sutinen 635]

If you took a moment to look what he said at Eurogamer (I think what it was), he said that zombies are being completely redone, sounds, animations, models and AI.

[Timberwolf (DayZ) 118]

Rocket says something about changing zombies, and you feel like it's been overlooked?

wut?

Compared to the other features yes. It's also overlooked by the community in my opinion.

If you took a moment to look what he said at Eurogamer (I think what it was), he said that zombies are being completely redone, sounds, animations, models and AI.

Can you please link it to me? Does he go somewhat deep in the subject? Interested to read it/view it. :)

[mibz0r 141]

Yes OP I did mean that your post makes me feel that you want them too be too much of a threat and more like CoD zombies in that they just keep on coming in bigger and bigger numbers, I agree on them being more of a threat but with balance too because if they kept the spawn mechanism roughly the same (you kill one set and a new set spawns almost immediately) nobody would last very long at all and a lot of players would just not buy the game, which then destroys the player base and makes teaming up even harder because you need to find players you can trust or even get along with in the first place, or at least in my eyes that is. I also think that some places should be safe zones or at least be capable of becoming safe zones because otherwise how do you team up, this would also allow for areas to become more PvP friendly and other more PvE maybe.

[Timberwolf (DayZ) 118]

Yes OP I did mean that your post makes me feel that you want them too be too much of a threat and more like CoD zombies in that they just keep on coming in bigger and bigger numbers, I agree on them being more of a threat but with balance too because if they kept the spawn mechanism roughly the same (you kill one set and a new set spawns almost immediately) nobody would last very long at all and a lot of players would just not buy the game, which then destroys the player base and makes teaming up even harder because you need to find players you can trust or even get along with in the first place, or at least in my eyes that is. I also think that some places should be safe zones or at least be capable of becoming safe zones because otherwise how do you team up, this would also allow for areas to become more PvP friendly and other more PvE maybe.

That is not what I said at all buddy, it's the opposite actually. I think you should read my original post with a bit more care. There will always be safe places, the map is huge and also, trying to make some zones more prone to PvP or PvE is ridiculous. "I'm going to zone X because that's where everyone that wants to kill each other goes". Things will take it's natural course.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Timberwolf

[brzator47@gmail.com 524]

Thousands of zombies with complex AI roaming around on a huge map isn't going to happen any time soon. Better animations, improved AI and improved pathfinding is what we should realistically expect. Really, just having zombies able to run in buildings would make them so much more dangerous. Simply sprinting your way into Cherno or Elektro wouldn't be the most effective strategy anymore.

[m.w. vindicator 880]

I dont think there needs to be more of the infected.

Firstly, they NEED to be able to attack a running player. Currently the zeds stop to attack. I simple moving punch is necessary , and lunges would be great too. Right now I can easily escape 30 zeds. In standalones if you are chased by thirty Zeds they would be right on your heels and the on first mistake you make they would pounce on you.

This would make the running loot grab much more difficult to pull off.

Stealth would become a key element to a loot grab.

Secondly, the zeds should be able to run in buildings, albeit clumsily. buildings should be safer than outdoors, but right now it is too easy.

Third, zombies shouldn't be used to detect a player's presence. Zeds are being optimized in standalone so this should allow them to spawn further away from players without killing the performance. There doesn't need to be thousands of roaming zeds.

An example for Zeds spawning further away that even the biggest noob can relate to. If a 1337 sniper is on Electro hill Zeds should spawn by the hospital and supermarket. That is much further than now and would pretend a lot of Zed detection issues.

[Sutinen 635]

Can you please link it to me? Does he go somewhat deep in the subject? Interested to read it/view it. :)

Only things he said was they will be more optimized (models), will have new sounds and new animations, and will have new AI. So no, he didn't reveal that much.

It's this one:

It's 30 mins long though, so I wouldn't recommend to watch 30 minutes for a 30 second part.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Sutinen

[ZomboWTF 527]

yeah, zed detection is a huge problem, if someone is 1000 meters away from a city, ALL the city zeds should spawn

its to easy to snipe and to detect snipers the way it is atm

Edited October 11, 2012 by Zombo

[Timberwolf (DayZ) 118]

He didn't go in depth with it at all, just said they are being redone. Too bored to search for the link though, it was a livestream from Eurogamer.

Damn. Maybe in the next blog update he will talk about it more extensively.

[Erizid 56]

I almost forgot. You wont be able to jog forever either. So any zombies you aggro will chase you until they catch you. If you aggro it, you have to kill it. So if you aggro all of Cherno, you better have a belt fed weapon.

[puppetworx 474]

Rocket has said specifically that the whole zombie AI is being reworked for the standalone. At the moment the zombies work on the soldier AI from ARMA2 which is modified, as much as it is possible for DayZ. This is why they serpentine run etc. When they have their own AI and don't have soldier AI which is modified by scripts they will be a lot more efficient and lot more like zombies. He's also stated that zombies will be able to attack you while you're running, something which hasn't been possible to achieve in the mod.

[tomallbones@gmail.com 2]

I mostly agree, I wouldn't mind some more zombies that are more dangerous, as long as i can for example shoot their legs to stop them running after me, the way it is now they chase and chase you at 100% speed, if they make them powerful in combination with that i wouldn't enjoy it

Edited October 11, 2012 by celld

[Zombie Jesus 723]

OP is right.

If zombies become harder the way that OP said it will force people to teamwork and not to go "lulz ima banditos i kil evrione l33t epic"

If you give gamers a gun and allow them to shoot other players you will always see this, no amount of difficulty will change the fact that it is fun to kill real players. You can cut down on this, but in reality we will learn the new infected and how to deal with them and then move onto the real threat, a guy with painkillers who had the audacity to run into my FOV.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Zombie Jesus