Snipers aren't a problem. People should stop moaning.

[morgan32 403]

Not joking.

It's a 13km x 13km map, yes. And the way you say it sounds like my comment is unfounded.

But how much of the map do you use at one time?

When you're scouting / scavenging / exploring?

Very little. Maybe you are only looking about 100m around you. Maybe more if you are actively looking for someone who shot at you from afar.

My point all along is that most of the best stories from players, i.e. the ones that get uploaded on YouTube are the backyard gunfights or hatchet wars with desperate players.

How many times have we seen footage of high end snipers sniping players only to see masses of negative feedback in the comments?

I'm just the messenger here. The video evidence speaks for itself.

I like a good shoot out. Don't get me wrong. It's intense. It's dramatic. Conflict is cool.

But the long range random shootings have had their day.

Time for more brutal interaction I say. Or maybe the snipers are just too afraid to get in close and personal?

Believe me, if snipers were to be made useless, or even removed, then I really wouldn't worry about danger anymore. The only thing that would be able to hurt me after that would be zombies walking trough walls. I agree that backyard massacres tend to be fun, I've tried it, but I'd rather have a backyard fight AND have to wonder about staying hidden because someone is watching. Snipers add a feeling to this game, it makes you feel unsafe at all times, which at least makes it more fun for me.

[ratiasu@hotmail.co.jp 122]

So no sniping people from their car? No sniper covering my clanmates? No stary Sobor sniping anymore? No NWAF sniping? No NEAF sniping?

Nah... Those people singing kumbayah in the middle of a field/street should be rewarded accordingly imho. Been playing this game since May and I can count how many times I have been sniped on one hand. I only got sniped twice at the coast. Once in Cherno, once in Elektro. The problem lies with duping. You're not going to spend your 10 bullets on a random hatchet wielding spawnie when you can't dupe them.

Also... I don't like it when people discard a game mechanic because it doesn't fit their ideal image of a game. Other people do like it.

PS: I don't care about the story of the person I'm trying to shoot. I just want their gear.

And no, I'm not a sniper. I rock a mp5sd and a m14.

[Hatchet_Man 30]

Maybe instead of cryin "OMG SNIPA!" Do something about it. Some of the easiest kills in game are snipers. If you have some satchel charges or a M203 get creative and have a BLAST! I don't understand the constent crying here. I learned early on how to combat them. (Unless they are truly skilled) They are cake to kill or make Alt+F4. No need to complain start a group up or learn to be sneeky and solve it.

No one's crying. I know how to avoid snipers.

I'm talking about noobs vs bored veterans.

Yes, they will learn if they get killed enough times.

Yes, they will rage.

Yes, they will post the same stupid comments on here.

I go back to my earlier point about the purpose of a long range sniper rifle in a zombie apocalypse. The reality is one thing. Game mechanics are another.

It seems most players are just addicted to the high end weapons, so will complain for the sake of it.

Why not increase the challenge by making confrontations more short-to-medium range?

How about it?

Some of you do this instinctively already.

[joeoblong@yahoo.com 614]

Well honestly in a (laughable) zombie type event, I would most definately have a sniper rifle in my arsenal.

I believe if more people just went after the snipers they'd be forced into a med, short range confortation. As for me personally in a real life situation, I'd never let anyone close enough or die trying. (bullet is much better then eaten alive!) I cannot wait until high end gear is rarer. But i can imagine the crys over the next big thing, OMG the ak is op! To me if you veiw snipers as the biggest threat take them out. Now in the KoS game we play now!? I don't blame a guy for camping a spot, but i will find him and hopefully get him before he gets me.

[Hatchet_Man 30]

So no sniping people from their car? No sniper covering my clanmates? No stary Sobor sniping anymore? No NWAF sniping? No NEAF sniping?

Nah... Those people singing kumbayah in the middle of a field/street should be rewarded accordingly imho. Been playing this game since May and I can count how many times I have been sniped on one hand. I only got sniped twice at the coast. Once in Cherno, once in Elektro. The problem lies with duping. You're not going to spend your 10 bullets on a random hatchet wielding spawnie when you can't dupe them.

Also... I don't like it when people discard a game mechanic because it doesn't fit their ideal image of a game. Other people do like it.

PS: I don't care about the story of the person I'm trying to shoot. I just want their gear.

And no, I'm not a sniper. I rock a mp5sd and a m14.

No one's discarding a game mechanic.

In the situation you describe, snipers are only required to cover their clan because other non-clan snipers may be a threat.

The very reason you feel the need for sniper cover is because you fear other snipers. And that's great. It makes for immersive gameplay.

I'm just saying if the distance was dialed down a little, it would make things more interesting. It would change behaviour. Make the game more challenging.

Rocket has said he intends to make zombies a major threat in the game, and I'm looking to the future is all.

I think people have forgotten this was originally about zombies and survival.

[Hatchet_Man 30]

I'm saying if there's gonna be sniping, make them have to work for their kill, by getting in closer to their prey.

There's no effort in sniping from a rooftop a mile away.

[joeoblong@yahoo.com 614]

I'm saying if there's gonna be sniping, make them have to work for their kill, by getting in closer to their prey.

There's no effort in sniping from a rooftop a mile away.

Actually this statement makes me think you've never tried to snipe in this game. A moving target at max range is a mofo to hit! Those who don't know how to range a target, or how to use mil-dots are not a threat at all. They waste alot of ammo, and can't hit shit.

[Hatchet_Man 30]

Actually this statement makes me think you've never tried to snipe in this game. A moving target at max range is a mofo to hit! Those who don't know how to range a target, or how to use mil-dots are not a threat at all. They waste alot of ammo, and can't hit shit.

You're right. I've never tried to snipe a player with a high end weapon.

I've taken out loads of zombies from a distance with an AKM and even a Glock. Now *that* is hard work, let me tell you. Adjusting for head sway, ping, bullet drop.

All of the comments/commentators here are correct really. My issue was with hacking / duping and messing up players' stories.

If we were all experts at the game, there'd be nothing to say. I'm just championing the cause of the noobs and the friendlies out there.

We were all noobs originally.

[chris p. bacon 182]

I don't like hill snipers because they don't contribute anything to the game. They kill for the sake of killing, not giving two fucks about what you're doing or that they didn't have any reason to shoot you. If players want to play a 2D sniping minigame rather than doing something productive - whether in the game or reality - that's fine by me, but who is really losing?

[Hatchet_Man 30]

Let's all take a moment to listen to some badass tracks and get really angry about the things that aggro players.

Then channel that into popping the mofo who wronged you.

It makes sense.

:)

[edit]

Wai-wai-wait. What was I thinking? Revenge is never the answer!

...Unless it's DayZ...

dB~]

Edited October 7, 2012 by Hatchet_Man

[SquishyBear 31]

Sniper rifles shouldn't be removed completely.

Make all those "high end" sniper rifles much, much harder to find and increase the amount of CZ 550 and other more "low-end" sniper rifles.

I find it pretty fucking stupid, that you can easily find a heli crash with a L85 and/or M107/AS50 next to it. Yay, so realistic.

Yeah those high end sniper rifles are really dangerous.

It only took someone 3 AS50 mags yesterday to kill a friend who wasn't even trying to get out of the way. So unless you know how to shoot the things, it's about as dangerous as a Makarov PM.

For every sniper who does have a clue, there's ten who don't. At least. Not sure why people keep on whining. probably just for the sake of whining.

Edited October 7, 2012 by SquishyBear

[Hatchet_Man 30]

This is what I was talking about,

Utterly pointless.

[SquishyBear 31]

This is what I was talking about,

Utterly pointless.

You do know the AS50 TWS is a hacked weapon, right? So you're trying to make a point about snipers by showing us hacker videos?

PS: You don't need a hacked weapon, you can just as easily kill someone from that hill with an M14 or DMR, heck the M4's and M16's are fairly accurate as well.

Edited October 7, 2012 by SquishyBear

[Hatchet_Man 30]

Yes, I know it's hacked. My original point was about hacking / duping / griefing. This illustrates what players do, whether they have TWS's or DMR's or whatever.

Even if they had a DMR or M14 AIM etc. It's the same lame ass "kill from afar" attitude that subtracts from the DayZ experience.

Would they be as likely to front up to that player with the crossbow and pop him with a handgun?

Judging by their commentary, I think not.

At least the guy with the crossbow had some balls.

Edited October 7, 2012 by Hatchet_Man

[Angryofficer 89]

You do know the AS50 TWS is a hacked weapon, right? So you're trying to make a point about snipers by showing us hacker videos?

PS: You don't need a hacked weapon, you can just as easily kill someone from that hill with an M14 or DMR, heck the M4's and M16's are fairly accurate as well.

It's still pointless if you shoot at random unarmed survivors with any weapon that can hit them up there. Also, they use an m107 later in the video.

I'm pretty sure the respawning process took out a lot on the server, which is why they removed it. Not completely sure. So, if I'm correct, when you mlg 420 weed dubstep xx legit noscope a bk randy, it's hard on the server. Also, it just wastes peoples time.

Edited October 7, 2012 by Angryofficer

[patrick_insanity@hotmail.com 111]

I don't neceseraily have a problem with snipers. the problem lies with the morals and intentions of these snipers (or at least most of them, a team sniper is something i'd encourage anyday) for my idea. allot of snipers are solo in a ghillie lying in bushes or anything else that blends in due to the ghillie suit. they take out survivors that have no chance of defending themselves (unless the sniper isn't able to hit a thing.)

Now where this is going is the following: Imagine a real zombie apocalypse. you'd go into a town and there's a person out there in the surroundings with a militairy camo outfit and a bloody militairy grade rifle that no one would be able to posses just like that. His purpose is to shoot anyone that is still uninfected. bringing humanity even further to extinction. All of these hill sitting snipers have no other goal than removing every player from the grounds of Elektro and Cherno. Now unless this person is some psychopath who sees no further purpose in living and has no urge to assist the rest of humanity in rebuilding the world population.. than okay I guess that would suffice enough to have such a mentality. but next to that. possesion of these tools and ability to use all these tools would be extraordinary.

So basicly in my eyes. the fact that snipers are so common is what brings allot of frustration and anger out on the forums. I don't have a major problem with snipers being there. getting killed by one is like the OP said; most likely your own fault, or well. you at least should be darn well aware of the risk you took after entering Cherno or Elektro. even if there are no more than 5 other players on the server you're in. there's still quite a chance that there's someone out there who would gladly perform a long range brain surgery on you.

But yeah. the stand alone will (hopefully) make most of the militairy grade sniper rifles more rare again, that being where the duped ones will be eradicated once more but also just making them generally more rare. making the CZ something you'll be finding more often on snipers which will get back on their feet when the stand alone hits the shelves.

[andrewmont 91]

Not joking.

It's a 13km x 13km map, yes. And the way you say it sounds like my comment is unfounded.

But how much of the map do you use at one time?

When you're scouting / scavenging / exploring?

Very little. Maybe you are only looking about 100m around you. Maybe more if you are actively looking for someone who shot at you from afar.

My point all along is that most of the best stories from players, i.e. the ones that get uploaded on YouTube are the backyard gunfights or hatchet wars with desperate players.

How many times have we seen footage of high end snipers sniping players only to see masses of negative feedback in the comments?

I'm just the messenger here. The video evidence speaks for itself.

I like a good shoot out. Don't get me wrong. It's intense. It's dramatic. Conflict is cool.

But the long range random shootings have had their day.

Time for more brutal interaction I say. Or maybe the snipers are just too afraid to get in close and personal?

Thing is removing sniper rifles from the game doesn't just affect snipers only. I often will carry an assault weapon and have a sniper in case I see a target a long range or start getting sniped myself. So whilst yes removing snipers will stop the campers it also completely destroys some people's style of play. This game is do what you want and that's agreed but it's also a simulation so real life things shouldn't be removed or nerfed just to satisfy some people's preferred style of play.

[Hatchet_Man 30]

Pbremmus is right. The debate will rage and rage.

It comes down to two scenarios:

The legitimate sniper who does overwatch for teams going about their business,

And the ass-hats who snipe for no other reason than they're bored. Then log out.

The video evidence on youtube seems to lean towards the latter. And it's such a waste.

I'd rather be sniped and be part of someone's legitimate story, than to be fodder for some bored script-kiddy. There's no way to police it currently, and pointless to try.

Again, my original point was the relationship between hacking and sniping.

I would just like to be sniped by a real sniper next time! :)

[bfisher 561]

The fundamental problem is that this ARMA II is a hard core military simulator that has been modded as a zombie apocalypse survival simulator. So you have this inherent imbalance between the "short game" - sneaking around buildings with axes and pistols long enough to scrounge a can of beans - and the "long game", hard core guys equiped like Delta Force commandos blasting away at their leisure from some hilltop 1000 m away.

But assume nothing is going to change, gameplay-wise, there are steps you can take to stay alive longer:

* AVOID THE SNIPER DEATHZONES ON CROWDED SERVERS! Everyone knows that snipers pearch atop of Cherno, Elektro, Stary Sober and the NW airfield.

* If you must go into those places, SCOUT IT OUT FIRST! Everyone knows where the snipers take up positions and they all have their eyes fixated on the hospitals and supermarkets waiting for you to stock up. So maybe take some extra time to outflank those big hills and clear them out.

* Move during the day. People may argue this with me, but I've mostly been killed at night. Thinking I'm safe in the darkness with NV gogles while the guy with the hacked .50 cal probably has a hacked thermal sight as well.

[Hatchet_Man 30]

It's all good advice on how to avoid being killed. Most of the veterans among us will agree.

I had some noob friends who were asking about the game, and I was trying to explain the PvP mentality to them.

I think they will still play the game. I just hope the two minute gameplay before death doesn't put them off.

PS. Some of us are not into killing other players for fun. It took me a long time to reach hero status. I can't say it was entirely worth it, because now with my new luminescent shirt, I'm even more of a target than before.

But at least I can run a little faster and am supposedly resistant to small arms fire, but that's yet to be proven.

PPS. The most fun I've had so far is from going back to basics. Winchester and a Makarov. Seriously. They both sound awesome and deliver the goods, at long and short range respectively. I did the AKM/DMR/G17 thing, but basic is much better imo.

[SquishyBear 31]

It's still pointless if you shoot at random unarmed survivors with any weapon that can hit them up there. Also, they use an m107 later in the video.

I'm pretty sure the respawning process took out a lot on the server, which is why they removed it. Not completely sure. So, if I'm correct, when you mlg 420 weed dubstep xx legit noscope a bk randy, it's hard on the server. Also, it just wastes peoples time.

It's also pointless to keep complaining about different people with different play styles I don't know what the obsession nowadays is with making everything the same according to someone's standard. "I don't want sniper rifles, so no one else should have them", "I don't shoot people for fun, so no one else should".

I kill people for fun. I like to be far away when I do so. Why? Cos I can, cos that's how I want to play. Other times I go on collection runs and avoid everything I can. Why? Cos I can and that's how I want to play at that time. I've only died maybe 3 times by someone that I had no idea where or who he was. That's out of a good 60 deaths.

Avoid getting attached to your character and accept that you're already dead the moment you spawn on any server. Death is inevitable. I dunno why it matters so much how you die.

[Maxgor 2314]

It's really a pointless argument right now till the hackers are gone and there aren't any duped or hacked weapons. Once everyone is on a more even playing field and military weapons are made to be EXTREMELY rare, it'll cut down on some of the sniping problems we have I hope.

[tomallbones@gmail.com 2]

1. Remove thermal from the game or make it the absolute god-like drop of the game.

2. Fix hacking / duping.

That is literally all the problem is..you think you'd die anywhere near as much if people didn't hack and dupe as50's? No, you wouldn't, anyone who played old dayz knows that.

Thermal if it stays in the standalone needs to be a very very low drop chance like the as50 / equivalent sniper rifle, but taking them out the game wouldn't be a smart move. You want that small chance of getting the god-like loot in a game where you have to earn weapons for yourself by discovery / killing players, but you want it without duping, otherwise its becomes average loot, and a deathmatch like dayz is now.

[Hatchet_Man 30]

Maybe you've been freakishly lucky.

My deaths have been about 1/3rd zombie related, 1/3rd snipes, and 1/3rd from hacking. No kidding.

The zombies and some of the sniping I can deal with. About half the snipes have been when I'm in the woods, miles from anywhere, and a high caliber weapon has taken me down.

The hacking has been pretty silly. Teleported into space. Run over with the SUV or Hummer. Instakilled or teleported to the limbo island.

I know how to avoid the obvious kills.

I just wonder what players have to fear from the idea -- and it's an idea only -- of more close-to-medium range interaction in the game.

Didn't Rocket remove helicopters in one version just to see what would happen? Then put them back? I don't know if that really happened. I'm pretty sure I saw helis in the patch that was supposed to remove them.

But as an alpha test, it would be interesting to see how players would adapt if suddenly rifles and smg's etc were unavailable.

As an experiment.

[bfisher 561]

How do these snipers "play"? Do they just set up camp and sit motionless for hours until someone walks by? I did see one Ghillie suit running across a field, but he reached the tree line before I could get a shot off and I wasn't going to chase him across a half mile of open farmland.

I was watching that post-apocalyptic show Revolution the other day. Basically a major plot point revolved around the main characters trying to come up with a scheme to kill some minor warlord who had sniper/hunting rifle. That's really how the game should be. Some of those rifles should be so rare that people would be afraid to use them for fear of every player in ear shot swarming them like zombies to an Enfield.

Other than .50 cals like the AS-50 (which I guess is the Brittish equivalent to the American Barett M82) "sniper rifles" wouldn't be that rare IRL. Most are just slight variations on scoped hunting rifles.