Punishment on death suggestion

[Lewf 27]

What it seems like to me (and is definitely true for me), everyone lost the fear of death that, among many things, made this game so good. Right now most people learned how to get good gear (which was increased by hack and duping) and don't even care if they die, or even tif they don't have a stash waiting for them, they simply get new stuff quickly (my case). So, to increase the difficulty and fear of death, I propose a punishment.

Not only would this punishment increase the fear of death, but it would stop "respawning" (disabling respawn was trully useless since you can just kill yourself). It was hard for me to think how to punish people. The first thing that came to mind was simply add a time to wait to play again with your character once you died. A time that would decrease the longer you lived. Let's say you just spawned and you don't like your location, so you kill yourself. Great, here's an hour of waiting for being such an asshole (yes, i do that myself, so i'm calling myself an asshole).

This game shouldn't be all about PVP. This game should be about surviving, about fear (especially about dying), scarcity and allocation of scarce resources, just like real life. I know many people won't agree with me, but that is only becasue they are too afraid to be punished and not be able to be killing new players out there.

That brings me to one of the problems with my "solution". Those damn bandit snipers out there simply kill people in major cities, right? Well, i say thats a good thing! People would start thinking out of the box and going beyond their comfort zone (a.k.a Elektro and Cherno) to find some good gear. They would have to run away from those damn bandit snipers so they wouldnt be punished for dying. If anything, it would increase their stealth so they would live longer. And last but definitely not least, those snipers would maybe leave the big sniping points since people wouldn't be willing to risk their lives anymore for some quick gear.

And then, there would be balance in the force.

EDIT: For those who are too lazy to read the whole topic, i'm not necessarily proposing the solution I said in this post. I am proposing to discuss and find a solution to this problem. So please, read the whole topic before criticizing my idea.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Lewf

[SmashT 10907]

I think you will find once the issues mentioned (duping, loot inflation, cheating) have been fixed, the fear will return as it will take a lot longer to gain back everything you lost.

Edited September 17, 2012 by smasht_AU

[apache25 133]

if you decrease the amount of food and bullets thats just encouraging pvp to get food and bullets

[Lewf 27]

if you decrease the amount of food and bullets thats just encouraging pvp to get food and bullets

Maybe i did not express myself well enough.... I meant that people wouldn't go to the big towns to get easy gear with the fear of dying, and would go somewhere else isntead (small towns, other palces north?)

I think you will find once the issues mentioned (duping, loot inflation, cheating) have been fixed, the fear will return.

Not the fear of simply respawning, for example. Not to mention people with bad gear, they are not afraid to die cause they would just spawn back and not lose much. People should be afraid to die in any circumstances.

I would even say they should be afraid to die mostly in the beggining. People tend to be careless in the beggining because respawning is easy. They should be concearned in living longer.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Lewf

[Zeppa 562]

Not the fear of simply respawning, for example. Not to mention people with bad gear, they are not afraid to die cause they would just spawn back and not lose much. People should be afraid to die in any circumstances.

I would even say they should be afraid to die mostly in the beggining. People tend to be careless in the beggining because respawning is easy. They should be concearned in living longer.

I completely agree on this, I have started playing lingor and there is nothing "scary" anymore... you just spawn and run through buildings(zombies are way too easy) and collect stuff. At freshspawn doesnt matter if you die at all, just run again to the nearest city and start looting.. no time at all and you are "pvp geared" again. (too much loot/good loot).

And duping and shit pvp is just death match, run to the tent or through few building and tadaa, again geared.

again-> cant wait for standalone. (hopefully: no duping, not so much hackers, better loot system, harder zeds)

[broguenz 333]

Personally If i found myself not able to play for an hour I'd swear and curse at whom ever and simply not have time and/or the inclination to bother playing again.

[terrvik 2409]

if you decrease the amount of food and bullets thats just encouraging pvp to get food and bullets

That is a good thing. :)

[stokvis 24]

With those scripters around this is gonna be hell.

So no.

If you are able to play the whole day perhaps it's nice, but not everybody has that luxury.

[kryvian 123]

OK, first off, I do agree that an experienced player can get geared up quite fast with out tents (I myself got to have an FN FAL with 7 mags, all tools (got lucky with a GPS drop), ghillie and camo within 6 hours wile spawning at Balota and ending in a PBX at it's spawn point. There's even no need to commit suicide.

But what about bambies? I mean it will be brutal and scary as it is for the first 10~20 deaths from zombies/glitches/hackers/bandits. Adding a time penalty as well is p much asking: GO AWAY, WE DON'T WANT PLAYERS! WE DON'T WANT YOU!

So from a new player's point of view. no beans!

[pvtjace 37]

Simple fix, remove military weapons.

And make more loot out off the coast so people are bothered to adventure out.

Cities need way more Zs to keep people out of them.

[Svein24 2]

This is a terrible idea. Adding a punishment like this won't add fear, it'll only add anger and frustration. Imagine if you're a player who for some reason can only play for an hour or two a day, or even possibly a week for whatever reason, and you had the misfortune of getting killed early on. Now your only opportunity to play is gone until the next chance you get. How is that fair? Or how about if you're being as careful as possible, being patient and taking your time maneuvering through a town and avoiding anyone you possibly can, when out of nowhere some asshole who's sprinting through the town comes across you and blows your head off or leads a horde of zombies right at you. Is that a fair punishment?

This idea would only turn away more players, which is not what the developers want. Why would they add a feature that would cater to the few instead of appealing to a wider audience?

The only thing that caused fear for people was the unknown. It was when you were new to the game when you didn't know what to expect or what to do or how to play that caused the fear. Not knowing how zombies behaved, who to trust, where to go, etc. is what causes the fear. The perma-death during this learning stage was a bonus. But once you learned the game and found out what to expect, the fear dissipates. Even if this idea reintroduced the fear for you, it would dissipate after you get used to the feature and just be a huge frustration.

[Lewf 27]

For all the people who disagree with my suggestion: I also think its not even close to being the ideal solution, adding a time was simply my first suggestion. I encourage everyone to try to find solutions to this problem. And to answer some of the comments people made: I also don't have much time to play, especially during the week.

The point of this topic is to create a discussion and find a (possible?) solution to this problem and maybe rocket could implement it on both the mod and standalone (if he hasn't already done so)

So, does anyone have any actual thoughts on solutions? I mean especially to the respawning "issue" which was nowhere near solved by simply taking out the respawn button

EDIT:

The only thing that caused fear for people was the unknown. It was when you were new to the game when you didn't know what to expect or what to do or how to play that caused the fear. Not knowing how zombies behaved, who to trust, where to go, etc. is what causes the fear. The perma-death during this learning stage was a bonus. But once you learned the game and found out what to expect, the fear dissipates. Even if this idea reintroduced the fear for you, it would dissipate after you get used to the feature and just be a huge frustration.

This is more of the kind of discussion I was looking for. With that problem in mind, how could we get that fear back, after you learned the game? Of course making zombies scarier and more of a threat is a great option, and maybe even making the loot more scarce (disconsidering the hack/duping which hopefully will decrease significantly soon) would help it, but for now, all we have is people running around to get that loot and not being afraid to die after a fresh spawn, which is just ridiculous considering a game that was supposed to be realistic.

I remember when I first heard of the game, a friend told me about it and i went to youtube and started watching all of SideStarfe's videos, and I loved the feeling he gave by being super cautious around zombies and everyone. That was the feeling I was looking for in the game, and that is the feeling I would like to have back, and I believe many would too. So my (probably stupid) idea of adding some time was looking towards that goal, of the fear of dying so being extremely careful.

I mean this trying to get away from the hacking/duping problem. I mean this mostly for freshspawns and for those (everyone, really) who kill themselves so they can have a better spawn. How can we introduce a way of maybe a second thought about running around cause you have no loot, or killing yourself for a better spawn location?

This game has been losing its essence of perma death, and I would like to help get it back.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Lewf

[Tourdion 11]

Bad thing about this kind of punishment is that trolls can shoot fresh spawns (example) in the legs so they are forced to suicide and suffer a harder punishment or leave the server. People will always exploit this kind of mechanics to piss off other players.

[Lewf 27]

Some brainstorming ideas:

Maybe those who died too quickly (for killing themselves or not being careful enough) could spawn with:

-Spawn with less maximum blood (temporarily)

-Less accuracy

-Making more noise

-Make their character slower

-Less visibility

-More prone to being incapacitated, especially by zombies

-Faster bleeding

All temporary of course

Edited September 17, 2012 by Lewf

[Siberian (DayZ) 527]

keep in mind all this will do is put up an even bigger barrier for noobs to learn and overcome..

im not sure new players need to be punished even more then they currently are for dieing..

i know when i first started i died alot and never had anything worth mentioning, including a rifle which took me days to find initialy..

[Lewf 27]

keep in mind all this will do is put up an even bigger barrier for noobs to learn and overcome..

im not sure new players need to be punished even more then they currently are for dieing..

i know when i first started i died alot and never had anything worth mentioning, including a rifle which took me days to find initialy..

Keep in mind that this is not about putting a barrier for noobs. Noobs will be more careful, noobs won't keep respawning to get a better location because they don't know the better location. This is about putting a barrier on respawning and running like an idiot in a world of pure danger because you know that if you die you won't lose anything and will "revive" just like nothing happened to you.

Dayz is all about learning to survive. Noobs would have the same problems about learning, I don't see that changing a lot to noobs. Would they care if their aim is not as steady? Would someone who is careful about where they go and how much noise they amke care if their full sprint doesn't work (which people take a while to learn how to use). I guess not

Edited September 17, 2012 by Lewf

[bazbake 456]

Keep in mind that this is not about putting a barrier for noobs. Noobs will be more careful, noobs won't keep respawning to get a better location because they don't know the better location. This is about putting a barrier on respawning and running like an idiot in a world of pure danger because you know that if you die you won't lose anything and will "revive" just like nothing happened to you.

Too bad your solutions would just hit noobs with the nerfhammer.

If you want the game to be more interesting, nerf the people at the top and buff the noobs.

[Lewf 27]

Too bad your solutions would just hit noobs with the nerfhammer.

If you want the game to be more interesting, nerf the people at the top and buff the noobs.

As I said before, I would like people to stop complaining and actually creating a discussion with their own suggestions. Also, as I said before, I'm trying to brainwash some ideas. Real solutions come out of discussions, not saying NO to people.

Noobs don't spawn and die in 5 minutes, ever. People who want a better spawn location, they do die in 5 minutes. They go to the nearest town and kill themselves. Now raise that to 10-15-20 minutes. Would a noob die in that time? I don't think so.... Noobs are careful enough to live 20 minutes (just look at the average life), and for someone to wait 20 minutes jsut to respawn.... I don't know you guys, but i would rather run 10 minutes and be where i want to be rather than wait 20 minutes and not be sure where i will spawn next, unless you are willing to take the consequences (which are really not that ridiculous...)

Besides, would you really quit a game because it's a little hard? This is what dayz is about: learning to survive.

Once you get established in this game, you can start to take more and more risks because all you need to do is find a tent and hide it decent (or build multiples on multiple servers). You can dupe up any item and ammo you want once you find one. Even if you don't have a tent, often you can just find your own body and loot yourself. Death is no longer a hazard...in a *survival game*.

I propose that Tents (naturally, fixed tents that autosave to not allow duping) be tied to the hive and the player's inventory. It pops up on any server to which you connect, in the location you placed it. Naturally, there would need to be some sort of a cap on the number of tents you could own.

I propose further that once a player dies, they *lose access* to their own corpse and their tents. That stuff is gone, you died. You can't have it again. It's realistic that your killer, or a bystander, would find your body and loot it. It is NOT realistic that you come back to life and loot yourself.

The tent should become a permanent fixture (until looted/hidden) on the server where you died, so people who find it can loot it until it's empty. Exactly the way your body currently is when you die. The exception being, the original owner (now dead, and respawned) cannot activate it.

There are a ton of "that's not realistic" concerns with having tents follow a player, but they pale in comparison to the completely unrealistic and game-changing ability to "take it with you" when you die. That's like...rule #1 of life. You can't take it with you.

Make death scary again!

This quote was from another topic, but i like the idea. Like he said in the very end, it could bring the fear of dying back again. What i suggested in his topic was to, once you die on a server, you cannot go back to it for a while (making it impossible for you to loot your own bodie), bringing back some of the fear

Edited September 17, 2012 by Lewf

[Siberian (DayZ) 527]

noobs dont die in 5 mins? ??

i think its been to long since u were new

i know i died alot in under 5 mins when i was newbie. ALOT..

[kryvian 123]

A LOT

IT IS FUCKING A LOT. NOT ALOT

[Lewf 27]

noobs dont die in 5 mins? ??

i think its been to long since u were new

i know i died alot in under 5 mins when i was newbie. ALOT..

A LOT

IT IS FUCKING A LOT. NOT ALOT

Some people just aren't made for this game, i guess... Survival of the fittest

[Siberian (DayZ) 527]

i think my record was 13 secs..

spawned in on the dock at Cherno, double zombie aggro instantly, tried to go prone and hide..

that didnt work, zombie lunch buffet opens at noon, hahaha

[Lewf 27]

i think my record was 13 secs..

spawned in on the dock at Cherno, double zombie aggro instantly, tried to go prone and hide..

that didnt work, zombie lunch buffet opens at noon, hahaha

Tip: run. They won't get you. Find a big uilding and lose them in it.

[Jonnyd505 0]

Some brainstorming ideas:

Maybe those who died too quickly (for killing themselves or not being careful enough) could spawn with:

-Spawn with less maximum blood (temporarily)

-Less accuracy

-Making more noise

-Make their character slower

-Less visibility

-More prone to being incapacitated, especially by zombies

-Faster bleeding

All temporary of course

Start with half the blood you would normally start with if you died 3-5 times within an hour?

[bazbake 456]

Spawn on coast. Get shot by spawncamper. Wait 1 hour to respawn.

Yeah, that'll stop trolls.