books that unlock new skills.

[DeadManWalking2 27]

before you spam this thread with flames about no RPG elements hear me out. Because I'm NOT suggesting a leveling system.

when it comes to survival, knowledge is more useful than a bag full of survival tools. The trouble is your average survivor will have lived a city life and therefore know almost nothing about some basic survival skills.

I therefore suggest that books with various titles, when read open up a range of new options or abilities for 5 minutes. once you have used an option or ability a set number of times (based on how hard a skill is to learn) you are deemed to know how to do it and the option is permanently available to you without needing to use the book. we currently unlock abilities with items. so this is not that big a leap when you think about it. btw. the books dont magically dissapear whenever they are read. That's just silly.

edit: also this is not like in fallout. because that increases your stats. DayZ should never have stats. I'm talking about learning how to light fires without matches for e.g.

Here are a few possible examples

book title - wilderness survival guide

options unlocked

- ability to smoke meet on a fire to (thinly sliced smoked meet lasts far longer and is ideal traveling food)

- extra meet when gutting animals (book tells you where the good stuff is and how to get it)

- ability to set traps on rabbit warrens (making rabbits useful)

book title - concielment and you

- enables you to add leaves to your character to affect some basic camouflage. (leaves degrade over time and will need replacing)

book title - buss time table

- gives you a sarcastic congratulatory notice for learning the bus times. now if only there were a bus for you to catch. (there could be many such junk books)

book title - pride and prejudice

- reading 5 times increases your humanity. (maximum 2 reads per day)

book title - beans beans the magical fruit

-this rare book increases the positive aspects of eating beans when around a camp fire... the down side is you may get a comedic sound effect after consumption.(see blazing saddles)

Edited September 4, 2012 by DeadManWalking2

[dappadan95 332]

no

[CerebralZombie (DayZ) 151]

So...

Like Fallout?

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

Hmmmm, Skyrim anyone?

I really don't like it on many levels. It's a well written suggestion though.

Edited September 4, 2012 by Fraggle

[DeadManWalking2 27]

So...

Like Fallout?

no not like fallout. because that simply increases your stats. DayZ should not have stats. this unlocks new abilities. like knowing how to light a fire without matches for example.

Edited September 4, 2012 by DeadManWalking2

[kebman 213]

If I find flint and some wood - or gasoline - I'll eventually find out how to start a fire, no books needed. However, for knowing how to repair a car, I might need one. But the assumption is always that survivors can read...

[xenomta 128]

Rocket actually said something about this in an interview with IGN, for example if you wanted to fix a car, you would have to find someone who is experienced in mechanics ( perhaps they could get experienced by reading the books, idk? )

[Jim Bean 157]

I immediately thought no. All this skill level shit it just not required for DayZ.

But I actually like what you're saying. Let's face it, most people wouldn't last an hour in the wild without crying like a bitch so this could be quite realistic.

Books would have to be in a logical place, such as libraries in major cities. Or could be found randomly in the woods as lost items. It's probably too late to implement but nevertheless, this is the only decent suggestion I've seen for a skill system. Beans.

[{420}Mr.Smiley 53]

I like the idea, it clearly doesnt say its for stats its for new abilities which would be useful in surviving. And maybe it will help some of the kids learn the importance of reading books.

[Mos1ey 6301]

You gain skills and knowledge in DayZ through playing. You yourself gain this knowledge, not your in-game character. Think about how far you've come since the first time you fired up the mod. We don't need a skill system...

[Raventhorn 43]

Hmm, could be nice :)

But I propose 2 things (if that`s okey?)

Example 1: You can change a wheel on a car (get it running) but to be able to fix engine, hull, winscreen (any major thing) you would need to find a book.

Example 2: You cannot bring books with you, I know that sounds kinda stupid, but if you can this would open up a whole new thing, people will just stack books in their tent\camp and when they die they just walk to their tent and in a short wile they can do it all again. Honestly not sure how to defend the "not bring the book" thing but I hope you understand what I am afraid of here.

Good post !

[Mos1ey 6301]

And how exactly do you justify not being able to carry a book? I think the game you're looking for is The Sims.

[xximrtwoixx 104]

I like OP's idea, but I would prefer learning skills from other players rather than books. At character creation you get to pick some stuff one of them being abilities/skills. You can teach these to other players, or they learn by observing you do them. This would be authentic and also have the benefit of causing people to group up. Also the issue that Raventhorn highlighted would be bypassed, if a group is killed they have to start all over learning their skills w/no advantage thus perma death hurts more. I think the number of skills needs to be high enough that it would be unlikely that small groups know all skills.

[Raventhorn 43]

And how exactly do you justify not being able to carry a book? I think the game you're looking for is The Sims.

Starting to wonder if you even read peoples posts :)

To quote myself here:

"Honestly not sure how to defend the "not bring the book" thing"

"You cannot bring books with you, I know that sounds kinda stupid,"

I think you assume alot, and are bordeline insulting in your "oberservations"

Keep telling people to play other games all the time is not really productive, it`s destructive. I would welcome people to this game instead of telling them where the door is. Same with suggestions.

Btw. Never played "The sims".

But enough time wasted on you.

I think this could make soscial gameplay even better, maybe you have to get a guy who can repair cars. Perhaps one guy in your group know how to proper do a blood transfusion?

I agree xXI Mr Teo IXx what you suggest can help with people not stacking books in their tents :)

[DeadManWalking2 27]

Hmm, could be nice :)

But I propose 2 things (if that`s okey?)

Example 1: You can change a wheel on a car (get it running) but to be able to fix engine, hull, winscreen (any major thing) you would need to find a book.

Example 2: You cannot bring books with you, I know that sounds kinda stupid, but if you can this would open up a whole new thing, people will just stack books in their tent\camp and when they die they just walk to their tent and in a short wile they can do it all again. Honestly not sure how to defend the "not bring the book" thing but I hope you understand what I am afraid of here.

Good post !

I agree with example 1, but not with example 2. simply because if you read the original post more carefully you will notice that I said you have to not only read a book, but perform the skill as well, during the 5 minute window reading the book confers. for many skills you would have to perform the skill multiple times during this window. for example lighting a fire without matches is a really hard skill, so you may have to do it 15 times or more.

this means that in order to learn to do something without needing the book you will have to lug it around with you until you have had opportunity to perform the task enough times. which will very likely require you to find things like 5 wild pigs for eg. as a result, stashing books in a safe place will not mean you can open up all the abilities simply by visiting that location. in this way book hording is no more of a problem than hording any other item.

also, if you are given the opportunity to be GIVEN skills at spawn. all that is going to happen is that groups or individuals in need of a new skill will simply put there items somewhere safe and suicide in order to obtain that new skill. totally not realistic in any way. also there is no reason you could not also learn skills from other players as well as from books.

Edited September 5, 2012 by DeadManWalking2

[xximrtwoixx 104]

I agree with example 1, but not with example 2. simply because if you read the original post more carefully you will notice that I said you have to not only read a book, but perform the skill as well, during the 5 minute window reading the book confers. for many skills you would have to perform the skill multiple times during this window. for example lighting a fire without matches is a really hard skill, so you may have to do it 15 times or more.

this means that in order to learn to do something without needing the book you will have to lug it around with you until you have had opportunity to perform the task enough times. which will very likely require you to find things like 5 wild pigs for eg. as a result, stashing books in a safe place will not mean you can open up all the abilities simply by visiting that location. in this way book hording is no more of a problem than hording any other item.

also, if you are given the opportunity to be GIVEN skills at spawn. all that is going to happen is that groups or individuals in need of a new skill will simply put there items somewhere safe and suicide in order to obtain that new skill. totally not realistic in any way. also there is no reason you could not also learn skills from other players as well as from books.

If you have a learn by doing then people will sit at camp and farm that skill, or go on specific farming runs then put the book into storage or another group member. I'm not saying this is extemely unauthentic in itself, but some actions it could lead to would be very unauthentic, like bandaging if they are shooting each other just to bandage. Matches would be maxed in minutes becaues someone would simply start X amount of fires in a row. I think your intentions are authentic because if you don't know how to do something but have a manual your able to learn from it while you attempt an action. I think it would be better to have a simple possession timer rather than a set number of actions. IE book in possession you can do X, after X days of book being in your possession you don't need to have it to take X action.

IMO hoarding is an issue with this because it allows a player or group to easily relearn skills after death. I think this will reduce the effects of perma death and I think that is a major area where skills/specialization can come into play.

I agree that suicide for skills could be an issue, if they are selectable at spawn, but if skills are able to generate enough attachment to a character, ie the player doesn't want to lose the skills they have, then death by any means would be avoided. I do realize that groups would be at an advantage with any system simply because it allows the individual members to be more specialized. This can be a disadvantage also, for example if they lost their medic and he was the only one with medical skills, they are now at a huge disadvantage.

I also think that selection should work more as a barreir for entry than a one choice of mastery. Your book mechanic works like this, if they don't have the book they can't even attempt an action. If the skill or specialization is simply the start, and then over time it grows at a set rate or you can grow it based on points for surviving then older characters will always be more valuable than new characters. IMO this is authentic just because no matter what your specialization or skills before SHTF doing those things without modern technology are vastly different.

[DeadManWalking2 27]

Having read your post twice to make sure I didn't miss anything I think you have some valid points.

I like the idea of how long you have the book on you as part of the unlocking of abilities process. I don't think that going out to "ability farm" as you put it would be a bad thing (unless like you say you start doing something silly like shooting each other), as this will give the player a long term mission and a reason not to die. (having to do it all over again)

I think perhaps performing a task a set number of times AND having the possession time thing as well would make for a great mix. If you want to limit it more you could add specific slots for books into the UI. so that you can only learn from the one or 2 books that are in these slots.

as for hording... I think if bases are going to be added, hording is going to become part of the game. and with the timing thing added then all the while your learning from the book you're risking loosing it.

regarding the slightly confusing passage on one selection of mastery and not being able to attempt an action unless you have the book. all actions unlockable by book should be the kind of things that you are unlikely to be able to work out without some kind of help. I.e. someone telling you or other kind of help. (like a book)

Edited September 5, 2012 by DeadManWalking2

[theguruofreason 1]

Please see my post for a more thorough skill system that encourages more metagame aspects. For those saying "we don't need stats. You develope as a player, there's no need for your character to develope," you're not considering deeper aspects of the metagame, such as why you should care if you live or die. Right now there's basically no reason to care outside of the fact that you lose your gear, which is easy to regain. This is why the game has become a massive deathmatch style game, rather than a survival sim experience. There are not enough consequences for dying. We need reasons to be attached to our characters that have meaning in-game, or else the metagame will never change from the pointless and dull deathmatch that other games do much better anyway. Open your eyes; DayZ is already basically an MMO, it's just missing the elements that make it deep and meaningful for your character to survive and interact with others rather than run around shooting people.

Edited September 6, 2012 by theguruofreason

[TehKolo 10]

The first two are okay, don't need junk books, humanity is okay except for cap limit per day (because days are actual 24 hours) and should only need to read it once, last one... don't need more appealing things for 10 year old children.

[Jony_RocketInMyPocket 172]

I will have to say no too. Because if you know how to do it in real life, why should you have to read a virtual book about it in DayZ? It wouldn't be realistic for one (reading a book in a second and then instantly knowing how to build a reactor - F that). Neither would it add to the game in any intuitive way. It would just be a superficial nuisance thrown into the mix, just to make things more complicated than personally I think they should.

Leave that for the Fallouts and Elder Scrolls of the world to use.

Edited September 7, 2012 by Jony_RocketInMyPocket

[apache25 133]

that is so unrealistic nobody can get skills in real life by reading a book but its a fairly good idea

[Frozen (DayZ) 144]

that is so unrealistic nobody can get skills in real life by reading a book but its a fairly good idea

if you are so dumb, and cannot transfer theoretical knowledge into a practice, then i would agree with you.

[notdahangoverguy 19]

*get's ALLLL the pieces to fix up a car*

*writing appears* YOU NEED TO KNOW HOW TO FIX A CAR

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!

I know this sounds like a dumb response, however it's true. DayZ shouldn't have an ''unlock'' system so to speak. YOU WANNA DO THIS? UNLOCK IT! (via reading the book) YOU WANNA DO THAT? UNLOCK IT!.

It's a weird one this, I know Rocket himself has proposed and thought about this one I just don't know.

Personally, I read a LOT of books. As a lover of books, It would be nice to have an evening stroll with my fellow survivors, looking for the ONLY book which will allows us to cook up some food.

I'm sorry, I'm sorry...it's not sarcasm. Honestly!. It's just that I love this idea, and I hate it. It's a love hate thang we got going on here.

Perhaps, you can carry only one specific book at a time. Okay, so eventually you want to fix up a boat, FUCK OFF to an island and feed yourself from fish and learn how to live a self sustainable life. That to me is 2 books. One for fixing up naval transportations such as boats which would include the skillset of navigational awareness on the ocean and another with self sustainable living which could cover fishing, hut building and harvesting water.

You'd spend so long holding this book like say.....2-5 hours. BING! you've learned it. You fix up your boat, but realise before that you need to know Island survival. Go to the Library, find the book and this one takes longer, maybe 6-7 hours.....BING! you now obtain knowledge to achieve what it is you set yourself to do. NOW! perhaps you can only hold 2-3 skillsets and let's say by obtaining knowledge of the sea which covers over 3 books you would get perks..such as being able to drive MUCH BIGGER boats, or even if shipwrecks are included into the the standalone, then you're needed to board it.

You may be able to wipe clean the knowledge and learn other skillsets, it's up to you.

That's my thoughts.