Hacked Weapons: Should we take a more reasoned approach?

[Obsolescence 129]

Because regardless of the hacked weapon being a game changer or not, using hacked weapons promotes hacking. So, admins ban anyone who even touches a hacked weapon (regardless of size) in order to discourage hackers and or the support of them.

My response would be that I imagine there are 10x-100x times as many spawned/duped AS50s resulting in the otherwise avoidable deaths of perhaps 1,000x-10,000x as many survivors from hacks or exploitation. It doesn't matter what weapons they include in DayZ. AS50s, TWS version or otherwise, are going to be the main weapon hackers/dupers want. Why is the Mak SD not included in the game if this fact lends justification for purists to ban players from servers without knowing if said player spawned the weapon or is aware it is not included in DayZ? Just include the reasonable guns in the game and nobody else gets banned by vigilante admins for using reasonable guns excluded for arbitrary reasons, simultaneously harsh-en the punishment for people using guns that actually kill other players by providing an unfair or unearned advantage.

Or maybe Makarov SDs are gateway-guns, and if we let people get a taste of these gateway-guns they won't be able to restrain themselves anymore and a 2nd DayZ apocalypse will be upon us -> DayM:SD?

[Col. Kurtz (DayZ) 91]

Why is the Mak SD not included in the game if this fact lends justification for purists to ban players from servers without knowing if said player spawned the weapon or is aware it is not included in DayZ? Just include the reasonable guns in the game and nobody else gets banned by vigilante admins for using reasonable guns excluded for arbitrary reasons, simultaneously harsh-en the punishment for people using guns that actually kill other players by providing an unfair or unearned advantage.

That's something for the developer of the mod and way beyond Admins. When all is said and done, Admins have the right to enforce things on their own servers the way they want (to an extent). Most Admins have made up their minds on how they will act toward this issue.

[Obsolescence 129]

That's something for the developer of the mod and way beyond Admins. When all is said and done, Admins have the right to enforce things on their own servers the way they want (to an extent). Most Admins have made up their minds on how they will act toward this issue.

Precisely. That is why I created this thread =) It's the only way I know to get someone's attention on the DayZ staff. If I had Rocket's cell phone number I woulda just called him up and said, "YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG -- I think."

[Pony Vests 13]

I believe most of the guns were left out for realism purposes. The odds of finding an ordinary pistol in your average household is pretty high. The odds of finding the same oridinary pistol with a silencer attached is ridiculously high. The M9 being a favored weapon of military personnel is more likely to be found with a silencer attached.

Now, I'm sure when someone saw the Makarov SD in their script list to bring over weapons into DayZ, they thought it would be cool to have a silenced Makarov and brough it over. They died, someone else found it thinking it was legit and kept the gun. That person died and the gun changed hands again, but this time into the hands of someone who knew how to dupe. Honestly, I've seen more Gold Revolvers than Makarov SDs, both of which would draw a swift and abrupt ban, but neither of which would break the game.

So yes, I'm with the OP in thinking the bans handed out for using guns which offer no real advantage (with or without a SD, if your main gun is a Makarov, you aren't getting far with that alone) is a bit extreme. However, if you're an admin and you see a Makarov SD or Gold Revolver in someone's item list (or however they check for spawned gear), how are you to know they didn't just spawn some weapon crates and take the "cool looking guns" and leave the rest? As we all know, tents, vehicles, and even weapon crates are stuck on a server with this current patch, so if someone spawns in some crates, tents, and sets up shop in Kamenka, every fresh spawn on that server will have access to a plethora of unfair weapons right off the bat; which if they leave with spawned-in guns, they are likely to start getting banned from their home servers without realizing what happened (if they are new to the game).

Although, if they implemented some sort of warning system for people with a spawned-in item in their pack, that would be great.

[jdz (DayZ) 238]

The M9 SD has 15 9x19 rounds per clip. <---- Perfectly legit weapon, enjoy your stay on our servers.

The Makarov SD has 8 9x18 rounds per clip. <---- Drop the BANHAMMER and PURGE WITH FIRE.

If you can provide the logic and reason behind why it makes sense to ban someone from a server for using an 8 round 9mm silenced pistol they acquired from a dead player, but not someone using an otherwise identical 15 round 9mm silenced pistol they acquired from a dead player then I will merrily replace the OP with "I'M FUCKING RETARDED, AND JDZ PROVED IT TO ME!" in the largest font size possible and I will end this thread and never post on the topic of gun availability/hacks again.

The only reasonable, but inane, answer I will not accept as qualifying would be some equivalent to: "it's against the rules" / "Rocket said so."

Ditch the coloured posts, they make you look like an attention seeker.

The reason people make a big deal about them

Is because they aren't ingame, it's that simple.

They were not found at a legitimate spawn point, they were brought into the game by an unlegitimate way.

IMO, using a hacked in weapon is just as bad as spawning them in.

Who cares of the Makarov SD is a lesser weapon? It still wasn't found legitimately.

Am I the only one who plays this game legitimately? I only use gear I've found at loot spawns or off people I've killed and I always save tents so gear doesn't dupe.

OP is still a fucking retard

[Gogster (DayZ) 626]

Admins have a hard enough job without adding in extra work trying to grade the imbalance of a hacked in weapon. Personally I think the onus should be on players, not administrators, to ensure they stay on the level.

An admin doesn't pick up the weapon for the player, after all.

[Pony Vests 13]

Ditch the coloured posts, they make you look like an attention seeker.

The reason people make a big deal about them

Is because they aren't ingame, it's that simple.

They were not found at a legitimate spawn point, they were brought into the game by an unlegitimate way.

IMO, using a hacked in weapon is just as bad as spawning them in.

Who cares of the Makarov SD is a lesser weapon? It still wasn't found legitimately.

Am I the only one who plays this game legitimately? I only use gear I've found at loot spawns or off people I've killed and I always save tents so gear doesn't dupe.

OP is still a fucking retard

Was that your attempt at poetry? A sentence does not need a line all to itself (and you call someone else a retard... irony).

Besides, I like the colored text since it directs your attention to good comparisons and information.

[Corpselooter 16]

I agree that many of the guns that I have seen that I have found to be scripted in by someone at some point have no gamebreaking advantage over the ones currently in game . I do feel that the tws variant of the as50 is way to op as I have been on the receiving end of it quite a few times. In case anyone doesn't understand the actual discussion as far as I understand it by including many of these guns into the mod which aren't groundbreaking and initiating a server side query to remove the truly game breaking ones such as the tws the people scripting them in would be easier to identify. I got banned from a server for having a pdw sd earlier on before I knew it wasn't in game as I got it off of some jerk camping a fire station. I took it used it and got a ban not my fault really and there are plenty of other servers but perhaps it could have been avoided. Not everyone who plays the mod reads wikis as they are actually experiencing the game and don't like playing a meta game knowing all there is to know without having experienced it ( this game is supposed to be about immersion having all the data before ever experiencing it takes away from that experience) Half of the fun of playing a game is learning what, when, and where.

[Cvm 13]

....

IMO, using a hacked in weapon is just as bad as spawning them in.

Who cares of the Makarov SD is a lesser weapon? It still wasn't found legitimately.

Am I the only one who plays this game legitimately? I only use gear I've found at loot spawns or off people I've killed and I always save tents so gear doesn't dupe.

....

I have seen hacked in weapons at spawn points and on people who have died. Finding them on someone you killed is not playing the game illegitimately, it can just happen. I think it hurts the community to ban people using banned weapons. If they are hacking them in, ban them. Just finding them or picking them up should not qualify a ban. With over 1,000,000+ players, only a very small percentage are on this forum. A majority of people probably have no idea what is hacked and what is not. I think if we start to ban a bunch of people, a lot of innocent people may be affected, and thus hurt the very base of people that made the standalone a possibility.

Edited September 1, 2012 by Cvm

[jdz (DayZ) 238]

Was that your attempt at poetry? A sentence does not need a line all to itself (and you call someone else a retard... irony).

Besides, I like the colored text since it directs your attention to good comparisons and information.

Posting off my phone, do not care for sentence and paragraph structure.

Good rebuttal by the way, really backed up a lot of your 'points'

[Obsolescence 129]

Admins have a hard enough job without adding in extra work trying to grade the imbalance of a hacked in weapon. Personally I think the onus should be on players, not administrators, to ensure they stay on the level.

An admin doesn't pick up the weapon for the player, after all.

One of the main points I make in the OP is that by including more/most of the balanced guns from A2/OA in DayZ, they will reduce the number of guns / gun names admins need to look out for. If anything, this should make admins jobs easier if they are inclined to kick/ban/warn players using non-legit guns.

You wont have to 'grade' anything, Rocket and DayZ Devs would determine what the new legitimate gun list would be (included in loot spawns). After this change, you have less guns to remember and ban for because, ideally, only guns that are imbalanced would not be acceptable.

[Obsolescence 129]

Ditch the coloured posts, they make you look like an attention seeker.

The reason people make a big deal about them

Is because they aren't ingame, it's that simple.

They were not found at a legitimate spawn point, they were brought into the game by an unlegitimate way.

IMO, using a hacked in weapon is just as bad as spawning them in.

Who cares of the Makarov SD is a lesser weapon? It still wasn't found legitimately.

Am I the only one who plays this game legitimately? I only use gear I've found at loot spawns or off people I've killed and I always save tents so gear doesn't dupe.

OP is still a fucking retard

I use colored posts because I am seeking attention. This is a forum. I created this thread about hacked weapons with the implicit purpose of grabbing the attention of people browsing and engaging them in discussion, debate, conversation, etc.

Welcome to the internet?

Now, consider the following scenarios:

1) A player spawns an Makarov SD.

2) A player spawns an AS50

3) A player saves a tent with an AS50 in it, providing them with infinite duped AS50s.

Situation 2 and 3 are obviously identical in function. The player exploits a vulnerability in the game/hive to procure illegitimate AS50s.

Situation 1 is only different from 2 or 3 in that this particular weapon is not in the game normally.

Situation 3 does the most damage to the value of AS50s and the game-play as a whole because that tent will continue to spit out AS50s for the owner and for every random passerby. Now there are legions of people armed by a single legitimate looted AS50 (in all likelyhood the AS50 in the tent just came from another tent).

How is it fair to ban players for equipping a Makarov SD when 9/10 or more of the people running around with AS50s are guilty of nothing less. The Mak SD is not imbalanced compared to other similar weapons in the game. There is no reasonable excuse to ban/kick someone for using it except to be viciously punitive. Of course, the reasoning applies to many more guns than just the Mak SD, but I use it because it works great as an example.

[Digital (DayZ) 2]

There is a black and white list of weapons. You cannot spawn in weapons on the blacklist. Just like you cannot spawn black listed vehicles. You could spawn in the jet previously but they black listed it. The SUV and police car for instance are still white listed. All they have to do is black list the weapon but obviously there is intent to add the weapon at some point.

You fools are over thinking the issue. It's literally a 5 second fix for the developers if they cared / wanted to fix it.

Fun fact. The vulcan cannon for the jet is still spawnable and you can shoot it and destroy half the map if you choose, but other vehicles guns aren't. Just food for thought.

Edited September 1, 2012 by Digital

[colekern 1364]

Rocket already said not to ban for picking up hacked weapons.

[Cvm 13]

Rocket already said not to ban for picking up hacked weapons.

Enough said.

[ledo1222 13]

This talk about hacked Guns and Cars is getting a bit redundent.

This could all be avoided if rocket, would just remove the code for the weaponds in the mod, LOOK PROBLUME FUCKEN SLOVED.

And he should get rid of every NATO weapons and just bring in USSR/PACT weaponry.

[BlksnshN 127]

I have never and will never hack/script in weapons. However, if I find one, I use it.

[Hawk24 94]

I have never and will never hack/script in weapons. However, if I find one, I use it.

HURR DURR

You're just too much of a coward to hack them in yourself, you still end up exploiting illegit gear to your own advantage

Bloody hypocrite

I'm completely fine with server admins banning people running hacked gear

The weapon list is not that long, and common sense tells you that a Thermal AS50 doesn't belong into DayZ

It gets even better as soon as those retards come to the forum asking if the weapon is legit and if they can keep it

If you really need to ask someone else if a weapon is legit....again...common sense already told you that the weapon is hacked

Keep humping your fancy hacked gear, if you need it that badly to survive...you're dead anyway

The M9 SD has 15 9x19 rounds per clip(...)

The Makarov SD has 8 9x18 rounds per clip

Magazine, not clip

Edited September 2, 2012 by Hawk24

[blaaarg 8]

why should we treat people so harshly for having a gun that is functionally within the bounds of what already exists in the game, when we can't even be sure they spawned it in or are aware it is a hacked gun

Being unaware of a rule do not prevent you to apply that rule. Ignorantia juris non excusat.

[RedBlueGreen 1]

havent read the whole thread... but how the hell do i know what weapons are hacked? I have never played arma2 and i know nothing about weapons in real life...

again... what makes you think i know what weapons have been hacked?

[bazbake 456]

The reason new weapons unbalance the game is because weapons have a "spawn rate." Every time you pick up a weapon in the field, you are transferring the spawn rate distally to your person. The likelihood of a person you kill carrying a particular weapon should be roughly equivalent to that weapon's spawn rate on the server.

If that weapon is hacked, that spawn rate goes up. Eventually, if everyone has hacked weapons, the spawn rate of the weapons will be equivalent to 100%. At some point you have to stop this, and it sucks to be the guy who didn't know better, but them's the breaks.

Not saying that someone should be banned for an illegal weapon, but they should definitely be kicked right the hell off the server and told it's because of their illegal weapon.

[IncognitoNico 71]

I think that rocket has to do something to destroy every single hacked in weapons in every server, not because I think thew makarov sd is op,, (the makarov itself is bad, sd just makes it worse) but even tho the admins ban every hacker for spawning in an AS50 there are still like a gazillion AS50 TSWs being used by people that think it's just a good find cause they're new to the game, or whatever

Edited September 2, 2012 by IncognitoNico

[blaaarg 8]

havent read the whole thread... but how the hell do i know what weapons are hacked? I have never played arma2 and i know nothing about weapons in real life...

again... what makes you think i know what weapons have been hacked?

But some guys can pickup hacked weapon knowing they are hacked then play dumb in order to prevent a ban. If you set up a camp on a "lazy admin" server with hacked weapons, gear up then join a regular server, you will be able to play with hacked weapon and you would be doing "nothing wrong" technically (no hack / script).

For hacked weapon, just remember what sd / thermal weapons we got in dayZ and you'll be fine.

DayZ wiki for weapons : http://www.dayzwiki.com/wiki/Weapons

M9SD, PP19SD, MP5SD & M4CCOSD are the only legit SD weapons in dayZ.

L85A2 AWS is the only legit thermal weapon in dayZ.

Any other variation of SD / thermal is a hacked one.

(the makarov itself is bad, sd just makes it worse)

In ArmA2 SD bullets are not worse, they only travel under the speed of sound but usually deal the same damage at point blank and keep more power over distance. (should not be that way but it is, just check the 5.56 vs 5.56sd. We should not be able to kill someone with the same amount of bullet with regular or Sd ammunition) In some case, SD bullet are more effective than regular one having a lower airfriction in game, if both have the same / close muzzle velocity, SD will perform better over distance.

Edited September 2, 2012 by OuicheLorraine

[adamtheheretic 106]

tl;dr for these long winded comments...

I don't see why so many people are complaining. I'm currently running an M16A4 Acog (legit) and a Gold Revolver (hacked).

I didn't hack it in, I found it in game. Functionally it's identical to the revolver... So, I should be banned for a skin on a weapon?

Also for those basically shouting "hacked in means over powered", you're wrong. If I hacked in weapons, there would be lots I would go through before finding a weapon as over powered as the regular AS50 that's in game. We should just add in more weapon choices from ARMA II (variety is the spice of life), then auto-delete the things rocket considers over powered when they're hacked in, same with off-map items/vehicles in my opinion too.

Hey look my post is white, I'm attention seeking.

[Digital (DayZ) 2]

tl;dr for these long winded comments...

I don't see why so many people are complaining. I'm currently running an M16A4 Acog (legit) and a Gold Revolver (hacked).

I didn't hack it in, I found it in game. Functionally it's identical to the revolver... So, I should be banned for a skin on a weapon?

Also for those basically shouting "hacked in means over powered", you're wrong. If I hacked in weapons, there would be lots I would go through before finding a weapon as over powered as the regular AS50 that's in game. We should just add in more weapon choices from ARMA II (variety is the spice of life), then auto-delete the things rocket considers over powered when they're hacked in, same with off-map items/vehicles in my opinion too.

Hey look my post is white, I'm attention seeking.

I've used every hacked weapon that is on the white list and none of them are over powered. The as50 TWS with thermal does give you a edge but it isn't game breaking. You could do the same method with a a85 and a sniper just have to switch guns once you spotted a target. MAYBE the silenced PDW because it's silenced and large clip size.

The rest of the guns are just reskins or different versions but really give you limited advantage. The M4 with ACOG scope and grenade launcher comes to mind as my personal favorite. Crazy zoom scope, m4 full auto, and grenade launcher, but really the grenade launcher is limited use and on other guns and so is the scope. Does it give you an advantage? Sure. But lets be honest here, ESP and Teleporting are giving a much bigger advantage then a few mods your gun has. You can teleport and esp kill someone with a hatchet no matter what gun they have.

I'd say most DayZ fights are situational. Lot of good your crazy hacked machinegun is gonna do you if you get shot from 800m away by a m107. Same goes for reverse. Lot of good your nice l11 desert camo sniper is gonna do you if someone comes around the corner with a akm.

Edited September 2, 2012 by Digital