Weapon Cleaning and Degrading.

[Taiphoz 95]

Item : Cleaning Kit

Size : 16 Slots

Rules : Cannot be put in Tents or Vehicles or Bags, only held in main inventory.

Use : Restores a Gun to full working order cleaning it of any dirt or rust.

Found: Military Loot (medium drop rate some where between makarov and sandbags)

Gun Rust/Dirt/Ware : Each time you fire your gun, it should lose a little durability, this sounds like an mmo thing but its a real life thing, guns need regular maintenance to keep them working correctly, we should have this modeled, if a player goes to long without cleaning their gun then it should break and jam and become a trash item to be thrown away.

Guns should also take Durability loss on player death, the guns take hits during a gun fight as well, so only make sense that if the player dies, his guns should lose a little as well.

If this gun state is saved appart from the tent data or vehicle data then a guns state should not save and dupe back to perfect on a reset, this will help get rid of a lot of the duped guns in the game as people use them and then fail to find cleaning kits.

It will also add another stress point for the player, do I pick up this cleaning kit which will take up my full inventory and that I cant put in a tent or bag to take back to base and use on my nearly broken AS50 , or do I use it on my current weapon , or do I leave it and look for a new gun.

:: WHY :: - lets face it , the risk of death is gone while tents respawn loot on a reset, people dont mind death because they know they can just run back to their tents and get all their stuff back, we need to really bring back that risk, bring back the need to get out in the world and look for more guns and ammo. and not just sit in cherno or a tent farm.

[kander 80]

Sounds reasonable.. Very occasional gun jams should be a feature too.

16 slots though?

Edited August 29, 2012 by kander

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

Moved to Suggestions*.

[Taiphoz 95]

Sounds reasonable.. Very occasional gun jams should be a feature too.

16 slots though?

Yeah I think its an easy way to prevent people from holding more than one, and it should be consumed on use as well, we simply have no reason at the moment to go looking for new stuff, I cant count the number of crash sites that we have just driven past because we dont even need to look at them any more, its removing that need to explore and venture out into the wild, that the game really needs back.

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

Rocket has talked about wanting to add weapon degradation and modification so fingers crossed.

[Mos1ey 6301]

How much can a weapon degrade in, say, a character's 30 day life? Lol.

I don't really see much need for this TBH.

[Duckman404 37]

I can definitely get behind guns requiring maintenance and repairs to keep in a working condition!

The mechanic should be something along the lines of what's suggested, with weapon degradation increasing weapon spread (meaning your gun becomes less accurate) and decreasing reliability.

Some guns could be more reliable and durable than others, while others require more maintenance to keep functional. This could balance, say, the M4 (not very durable) vs the AK-74 (highly durable), although both would still be quite easy to clean.

What I can not agree with is this nonsense 16 slot cleaning kit. That's, what... 3 engine blocks of weight?

Just because the game is currently in a broken state doesn't mean you have to design new equipment/items around that broken gameplay; what you should be thinking of is how this would work when DayZ is not broken!

For example, a cleaning kit should only take up 1 or 2 slots (swabs, a bore snake, and a vial of Hoppes #9 are -not- that heavy), and ought to be able to be placed in tents/vehicles. Even if the current game is broken with items duping and all that crap, weapon degradation will still add another thing that requires taking care of. Don't assume things will still be broken in the future, when this mechanic will see much more use!

---

How much can a weapon degrade in, say, a character's 30 day life? Lol.

I don't really see much need for this TBH.

It's not necessarily mechanical degradation; cleaning a weapon is vital to keeping it functional, especially when you're hiking through kilometres of wet woodland. A weapon that sees no maintenance will start to get dirty pretty damn quickly, in a situation where 99% of the time is spent outdoors.

Edited August 29, 2012 by Duckman404

[Jukez 44]

How much can a weapon degrade in, say, a character's 30 day life? Lol.

I don't really see much need for this TBH.

The weapon shouldn't degrade in players lifetime. However, now we find weapons, say in an outhouse, and who knows how long they have been laying there. So when we pickup guns, they should have the possibility to be in bad shape. Cleaning kit would be for this.

Also weapon jaming can happen to any weapon. This would give cleaning kits some more use.

[Thingyy 5]

AK-74s should need less cleaning then M4s then.

Edited August 29, 2012 by Thingyy

[Mos1ey 6301]

The weapon shouldn't degrade in players lifetime. However, now we find weapons, say in an outhouse, and who knows how long they have been laying there. So when we pickup guns, they should have the possibility to be in bad shape. Cleaning kit would be for this.

Also weapon jaming can happen to any weapon. This would give cleaning kits some more use.

Most of my weapons come from barracks, radio towers, military tents, etc. I imagine they'd be pretty well maintained. Maybe weapons from deer stands would be a little dirty but I don't imagine they'd be caked in dirt, lol.

I'm not dead set against this but I wouldn't like to see it become a big part of the game. It should be similar to the temperature/infection feature in terms of how often it's used.

[koze 113]

Weapon degrading? No.

Cleaning weapons so they dont jam? Yes.

Hounestly, I dont feel the need for this. It would take ALOT of rounds to reduce durability.

When I bought my first handgun, I wanted atleast 1,000 rounds before malfunctioning. So far I've fired 500. Still accurate, no jams ect.

Also, a high quality barrel is good for 50,000 rounds before significant loss of accuracy. Another thing to take not is that an average spring life is 5,000 to 15,000 rounds according to varying manufacturer.

And this is only pistols im talking about, so obviously with assault rifles they would be alot more durable.

Take note that not all weapons are the same, some fire different bullets, have longer and shorter barrels, some are more durable than others, and something like this would be very hard for the Devs because they would have to do the stats for each individual weapon.

EDIT: It is also highly unlikely that you would fire up to 1,000 rounds with the same weapon in 1 life. You'll most likely die from attracking attention by shooting your weapon everywhere than dying from a weapon jam. And theres no way you can find that much ammo.

What you could add with weapon durablity or jamming, is overheating. If you fire too many rounds and forget to let your barrel cool down then it could do damage to your weapon. But it would only apply to LMG's because theres no way you could find that much ammo to fire all at once. Even if you could theres no situation where you'd jam your assault rifle from overheating. Lastly, its highly unlikely that it would ever happen anyway since any idiot knows that you always set your weapon to semi.

Edited August 29, 2012 by koze

[b101_uk 0]

AK-74s should need less cleaning then M4s then.

And the cleaning kit for the Lee Enfield should take up 0 slots in the inventory, as the cleaning kit lives in the butt of the stock under the flip-up brass cap in RL, it also applies to other military guns too e.g. the AK47/AK74/AR-15/M16/FN FAL to name but a few.

[Duckman404 37]

When I bought my first handgun, I wanted atleast 1,000 rounds before malfunctioning. So far I've fired 500. Still accurate, no jams ect.

How often do you clean your handgun, though?

[Photolysis 25]

16 slots for a cleaning kit that's a single use? I don't know what you're smoking but that must be some very powerful stuff.

That's like me suggesting that a can of beans should take up 20 slots so you have to constantly hunt around for them. In other words, stupid.

[PapaTango69 5]

So you are saying a bore-snake,a bottle of balistol, a toothbrush and a rag and maybe some patches .....at this to take up 16 slots...lol and you want realistic...think again.

[Jukez 44]

Weapon cleaning kit should be a toolbelt item, maybe need to refill weapon oil after a few uses.

Being in the rain would slowly make your weapon rusty.

Edited August 29, 2012 by Jukez

[PapaTango69 5]

Whats next a can opener so you can eat the canned food?....maybe we should be required to take dump after so much food we eat.....good grief....stop begging to have the game changed to your likings....this isnt Fallout 3

Edited August 30, 2012 by PapaTango69

[Protein (DayZ) 14]

It will also add another stress point for the player, do I pick up this cleaning kit which will take up my full inventory and that I cant put in a tent or bag to take back to base and use on my nearly broken AS50 , or do I use it on my current weapon , or do I leave it and look for a new gun.

:: WHY :: - lets face it , the risk of death is gone while tents respawn loot on a reset, people dont mind death because they know they can just run back to their tents and get all their stuff back, we need to really bring back that risk, bring back the need to get out in the world and look for more guns and ammo. and not just sit in cherno or a tent farm.

If you want the risk stay the same , play with hatchet. It's obvious if you collect things it should be easier to play. Why i collect things if risk stay the same? Maybe you want to add teeth brushing too? It's 80-90% of running in forest and you want to add some unecessarily things. It's hard to find good weapon. so when we finallly play? 1% of time?

Edited August 30, 2012 by Protein

[d4rK (DayZ) 0]

Very good plan but i think that cant put it in bag is too much

Edited August 30, 2012 by d4rK

[zoom3k 0]

The most of ppl who want to add such a minor and unnecessarily things to the game are playing with cheats. or because of them. I've played about 2 weeks and only a couple of times i've found ak47. It is really boring that 95% you are running throught the forest and being shooted after 30 sec then you come to the big city . So, full armed cheaters should not suggest to add such stupid and minor things like a cleaning kit,a teeth brush or whatever else.

[slartibartfast (DayZ) 77]

Nothing wrong with weapon maintenance.

Regular use of any type of firearm requires the cleaning of it.

I would suggest that weapons should be cleaned EVERY single day.

From a light oiling for unused to a major cleansing if you have been used in a firefight.

degradation is a different thing all together - weapon(and vehicle) parts are designed to last for years of use. I had an L1A1(fn fal for all you fanboys) that was older than me when I first joined the Army. Admittedly the stock had been changed and the mechanism had been changed and the gas chamber and the barrel, but the gun was still decades old. ;)

I would suggest that cleaning is essential.

Edited August 30, 2012 by EMT - Jasz

[CombatWombat (DayZ) 63]

Sounds great, 16 slots is definitely too much, considering your inventory doesn't take that. Maybe make it just one slot and increase the rarity.

[xximrtwoixx 104]

Implementing item degredation is can be "authentic" or it can be implemented in an attempt to achieve a specific goal.

I think OP wants to achieve something and thus implement the mechanic as "balancer" rather than implement something that is authentic. IMO this only makes it feel gamey, forced, and poorly thought out. It can't function as the sole guardian of the in game loot economy and also feel authentic, the rate of degredation would need to be to high w/no option to fix or simply based on a timer w/no option to fix. A timer would nullify other content (Persistent Storage) and that would remove alot of the legit gameplay IMO. Even if it is implemented with a crazy rate, it still won't have an effect on the economy if there is an option to fix because people will just fix the good stuff.

I would prefer an authentic look at degredation where your gun gets dirty (firing or elements), it takes damage from incoming fire, irreplaceable parts wear out (Use while dirty multiplies wear, use while clean is low wear). This would allow the player to have some control over the system, enough that they can choose/plan what to do. I also think degredation's major impact should be a value add to low tech weapon systems like bolt actions, pump actions, and revolvers. These things don't jam the way semi/full auto firearms do and they can operate much dirtier because they are sealed or purely mechanical. That would be an authentic take on wear IMO, otherwise its just a nerf for the sake of having a nerf.

If you want to control the economy the first thing you have to do is actually have an economy. There is no demand because everything is infinite, even w/out duping/hacking you can spawn whatever you want in given enough time. With infinite supply there will never be demand, no demand means DM in the S coast and no value to anything.

[Pathfinder (DayZ) 47]

Nope. get enough gun cleaning IRL dont want to do it in a game.

[colekern 1364]

Yes, but you should be able to use the cleaning kit an unlimited number of times.