People who murder bandits =/= heroes

[Dankine 377]

Well in my opinion when you kill someone who is a bandit, your a technically saving others which could count you as a hero. However in a real life situation I would only shoot out of self defense. So since I play this game realistically, I only shoot people when it's out of self defense.

so, all the time?

[Sol (DayZ) 132]

Bandit problem? THERE IS NO BANDIT PROBLEM, PEOPLE.

Bandits are tactical, great players who rob others for their goods. They ONLY KILL WHEN THE SITUATION DEEMS IT TO BE OF AN EXTENDED NECESSITY.

MURDERERS ARE THE PROBLEM.

Bandits =/= the "problem".

Learn to differentiate.

This. All of it.

~Sol

[Bukethead 96]

Killing a bandit does not make you a savior. In fact, it makes you part of the 'bandit' problem. You are merely killing another killer. You are no better than they are.

That is why even kills made in self-defense reduce humanity, and should continue to do so.

There's a difference between killing and murdering, one is an act, the other is the act with intent.

I honestly don't think the problem is with a choice of whether or not a kill in self defense is, I think it's a matter of not being able to differ one from the other in terms of the game engine. How exactly would rocket set up a system that could detect whether or not you are defending yourself? Assume someone is running at you with an axe and is screaming "I'M GOING TO KILL YOU" just exactly how is the engine going to know that you opening fire on this person before they even do any damage to you, was in self defense?

A more simplistic concept such as detecting a hit and registering a kill you get as self defense represents problems.

However as it stands now, everyone who kills is considered a murderer, regardless of intent.

Same goes for the hero skin, if you're saving bandits or your buddies with blood bags, I'm not sure how this makes you trustworthy to a casual observer.

Edited August 29, 2012 by Bukethead

[timboski 618]

People take computer games far too seriously.

[discombobulated 27]

Killing a bandit doesn't make you better than them, so no your humanity shouldn't go up. Saying that defending yourself from someone trying to kill you shouldn't lower your humanity either. Why should I lose morality because someone is shooting at me and the only way out of the situation without dying is to kill them?

I honestly don't think the problem is with a choice of whether or not a kill in self defense is, I think it's a matter of not being able to differ one from the other in terms of the game engine. How exactly would rocket set up a system that could detect whether or not you are defending yourself? Assume someone is running at you with an axe and is screaming "I'M GOING TO KILL YOU" just exactly how is the engine going to know that you opening fire on this person before they even do any damage to you, was in self defense?

And yes you're correct, the game has no idea whether you are shooting in self defence or not. The entire humanity system is broken, as well as the skins.

Edited August 29, 2012 by discombobulated

[csharp 47]

Sure guy.

I choose my targets. Bandits shoot everyone. Huge difference when you're on the other end of the barrel.

Bandits are crying harder than the carebears now that they're the ones getting hunted.

I actually lolled a bit. I choose my targets, and if i die, i'll take it like a man. It's part of the game to die, and zeds are not that powerful that they could do it, so other players are the threat.

I don't see banditry as a problem, i see duping and hacking as problems.

[miket 92]

Bandit, hero or survivor, if they're aiming at me they're dead.

[Sir Bum 2]

I avoid all of you.

And here, good people, is the best survival strategy in Dayz. Stay the hell away from anyone with a pulse.

[Augurk 2]

Until we get another way of making a bandit harmless killing them is the only way to handle them. I don't think that's inhumane, it might even be a bit humane especially if you directly save someone through doing so.

[Jex =TE= (DayZ) 218]

Humans are built to be bandits.

Wrong! humans are social animals - we don't go round killing each other in dayz and if you think that's how we should be, ur a problem to the species.

[Ozelot (DayZ) 394]

I choose my targets. Bandits shoot everyone. Huge difference when you're on the other end of the barrel.

Bandits are crying harder than the carebears now that they're the ones getting hunted.

No one is crying. I accept every death that isn't caused by a bug or hackers as my own fault.

All I'm saying is if you kill, you are a killer. Just like the bandits. That is a FACT.

Murder is still murder, no matter how you try to justify it. At least the bandits don't pretend to have some higher moral ground :)

[BlindProphet 34]

Killing a bandit does not make you a savior. In fact, it makes you part of the 'bandit' problem. You are merely killing another killer. You are no better than they are.

That is why even kills made in self-defense reduce humanity, and should continue to do so.

Seriously? I'm not sure how you could possibly be more wrong.

While it is true that killing a bandit does not necessarily make you a hero, it also does not make you part of the problem.

Killing a bandit could mean you are a hero.

Killing a bandit could mean you are a bandit.

Killing a bandit could mean you are a survivor.

Killing a bandit could mean you are just a murdering sociopath.

It is not just black and white like you make it out to be. Ideas along those lines are far from reality. Intent and the situation have more to do with it than who shot who.

For example a Bandit is about to hold someone up/kill them. You kill the bandit. You could A) Be a hero if your intent was to save the poor soul the bandit was holding up/trying to kill. B) Be a Bandit as your intent was to take his stuff and or his intended targets stuff. C) Be a survivor taking out a potential threat to you if he happened to spot you and don't particularly care about the other person and or kill them. D) Be a murdering sociopath as your intent was 'use gun on man because man existed'.

On top of this there really is no 'bandit' problem. Bandits are a natural part of the game. If they didn't exist the game would be largely uneventful.

Bandits kill people on occasion. This does not imply that if you kill people on occasion you are a bandit.

[fosty99 160]

Killing the killers stops them from killing the innocent.

[colekern 1364]

Most games server admins can turn "friendly fire" on and off. If Rocket wanted to leave that portion of the game out he would have made it that way. Bandits are a necessary part of the game otherwise it would became very boring just gearing up and avoiding zombies.

Humans are built to be bandits. Any higher civilization strives to be on top of the food chain and in this game bandits are the top. The rest of you guys are crying little defenseless @#!*% . If you want to be the top dog you have to fight for it. The only thing "heros" want to do is come here crying when killed by another player.. Buck up and go kill them back. It's a @#!*% game for gods sake! If I wanted to be a responsible citizen I would just go about my daily life as I do now. In a video game I want to be the opposite so stop all your @#!*% crying and play the game as it was intended.

You're right. Bandits are a necessary part of the game. But for there to be bandits, there has to be a set moral line. That is, there has to be good guys to be bad guys. We're all playing this game right. We just have different playstyles.

Also, take a look at this thread:http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/6487-wtf-is-happening-to-the-server-community/page__st__200#entry67815

Dayz was never meant to be a game. It was meant to be an anti-game.

[Gulrix 2]

You're right. Bandits are a necessary part of the game. But for there to be bandits, there has to be a set moral line. That is, there has to be good guys to be bad guys. We're all playing this game right. We just have different playstyles.

Also, take a look at this thread:http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/6487-wtf-is-happening-to-the-server-community/page__st__200#entry67815

Dayz was never meant to be a game. It was meant to be an anti-game.

The thing that makes Dayz so interesting is that there is no set moral line.

[colekern 1364]

The thing that makes Dayz so interesting is that there is no set moral line.

No, there still is. For one, people help others in-game because "it's the right thing to do". If there was no set moral line, then everyone would just shoot everyone(more so that already). Everyone sets their own morals. So, technically, there still a moral line made by the players.

[slartibartfast (DayZ) 77]

Killing a bandit does not make you a savior. In fact, it makes you part of the 'bandit' problem. You are merely killing another killer. You are no better than they are.

That is why even kills made in self-defense reduce humanity, and should continue to do so.

I agree.

Killing without provocation, taking direct fire, is vigilantism.

Heroes are NOT vigilantes.

This goes out to all the potential heroes out there.

Imagine a scenario where you come upon an injured bandit. He tells you he has -100,000 humanity but asks for your help. He has a broken leg and slips in and out of consciousness. You have morphine, an epi pen and a blood bag. You also have an m4a1 cco.

What would you do?

[slartibartfast (DayZ) 77]

The thing that makes Dayz so interesting is that there is no set moral line.

Bollocks.

This software could be a social science experiment.

I think that it gives us an opportunity to be who we are inside. To express our ID.

If you want to climb to the top of a tower and execute complete strangers, without motive, from 800m, then you can do that in this game. Given how many people that play in this style, I am quite glad that I live in a country with no 'right to bare arms' (although I don't see why wearing a T-shirt gives someone the right to own 60 guns)

I am just glad that there are also social groups and loners out in chernarus that want to help, they have no KoS and think nothing of laying it all on the line to help said snipped stranger.

There is a moral compass in this game.

Where does yours point?

[Ozelot (DayZ) 394]

No, there still is. For one, people help others in-game because "it's the right thing to do". If there was no set moral line, then everyone would just shoot everyone(more so that already). Everyone sets their own morals. So, technically, there still a moral line made by the players.

The problem is each person's morality is subjective. No one player's is above anyone else's.

[Sol (DayZ) 132]

People take computer games far too seriously.

People take lots of things seriously.

Humans are competitive by nature, so regardless of the medium (IE. Physical sports, how much money you make, what kind of car you drive, or a video game) it's all the same shit in a different shade of pink.

Stop being so judgmental, because I bet there's something that you take seriously that most of us would roll their eyes at it >.>

~Sol

[datguy (DayZ) 157]

Bandit. Survivor. Hero. Hacker. You're all just targets to me. If I could carve the meat off your corpse and eat it I would.

Does that make me a bad person? No. But your mum does.

[kebman 213]

I don't much care for the whole bandit/hero skin thing, but tagging people who KOS (or giving them a disadvantage), and giving some incentives to cooperate, or at least trade, is great and makes the game that much extremely more interresting.

Also, defending yourself when someone comes after you, or shoots first, is completely legitimate, although I'm against getting humanity for it.

I do like the idea about rewarding certain behaviour, though, but I'm still uneasy about this bandit/hero thing, meaning I guess I kinda like the hero costume, but not so much the bandit costume... Ah, I dunno... Let's just play the game!

Edited August 30, 2012 by kebman

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

Heroes, or even survivors with positive humanity, that kill nothing but bandits should morph into a vigilante or bounty hunter skin. Makes more sense. I also think bandits that end up with -100k or something should morph into something more extreme. Hopefully they'll add more than two skins and even consider skins for other playstyles of each end of the humanity spectrum.

Bandit. Survivor. Hero. Hacker. You're all just targets to me. If I could carve the meat off your corpse and eat it I would.

Does that make me a bad person? No. But your mum does.

Good luck with that.

[Matchstick556 12]

Bollocks.

This software could be a social science experiment.

I think that it gives us an opportunity to be who we are inside. To express our ID.

If you want to climb to the top of a tower and execute complete strangers, without motive, from 800m, then you can do that in this game. Given how many people that play in this style, I am quite glad that I live in a country with no 'right to bare arms' (although I don't see why wearing a T-shirt gives someone the right to own 60 guns)

I am just glad that there are also social groups and loners out in chernarus that want to help, they have no KoS and think nothing of laying it all on the line to help said snipped stranger.

There is a moral compass in this game.

Where does yours point?

You're comparing apples to oranges here. You can't compare a game to real life. For example, Day Z has no justice system. There is barely any fear as the player because you just respawn if you die, unlike real life. People "who want to climb to the top of a tower and execute complete strangers, without motive, from 800m" do it out of boredom, challenge or just because they want to be a d!ck. It has nothing to do with morality.

I kill most people in Day Z because I'm tired of getting killed. Unless we can form a truce early enough, I will kill them to survive.

I own multiple weapons in real life but I would never consider killing innocent people.

"Given how many people that play in this style, I am quite glad that I live in a country with no 'right to bare arms' (although I don't see why wearing a T-shirt gives someone the right to own 60 guns).

"

... and I'm quite glad you don't live in the United States.

[Sol (DayZ) 132]

You can't compare a game to real life.

Yes you fucking well can.

~Sol