Reviving fallen survivors

[Dugar (DayZ) 3]

The possibility to revive your fallen comrade is something I would really love to see added to DayZ.

Playing with a friend or a group is awesome and increases your chances of survival when you run across bandits, but no matter how careful you play, you will have casualities at some point.

A lucky shot by a guy who happens to spot you first has ended my life more than once. Thats cool, I don't have an issue with that. The problem is that after the enemy has been summarily executed by the rest of your group, you will often have to spend the next hour or even more to hike back to your group, while they have the exciting task of either watching your body until you get there, or to carry your equipment until you reach them.

Thats not fun.

The solution I was thinking lends from Project Reality mod for BF2(haven't checked out how it is in arma2 version of the mod, but propably something similiar).

When you got shot in PR, instead of dying outright you would get wounded and incapacitated. If you are not helped by a medic in certain time you will die and have to respawn. When you are revived you would be at very low health and getting downed again within a certain time(think it was like 5-10 minutes) would then kill you for good.

Receiving massive damage, like a headshot or getting blown to bits by a 'nade, would also kill you instantly.

This would enable a group to keep playing in the event of one member getting shot down in a firefight without having to spend ungodly amounts of time regrouping each time that happens, but still forcing you to play careful nonetheless, as being downed again too soon WILL kill you. Also the fact that you have to be able to get to your buddy's corpse to revive him means that any well prepared enemy ambush will still get the kills they deserve. Winning a fight would be far more rewarding when you don't have to lament over wasting hours of playtime running up'n'down the map.

What are your thoughts?

[Dancing.Russian.Man 1631]

Get hit, log off, wait for a friend to become available and tell them where you are. Then just log in at the same place so he can revive you.

[Jorden 63]

Okay let's think of it realistically:

You are in a field, you're walking along and then BAM, headshot. You're bleeding profusely, your brain matter is everywhere, and you're practically a vegetable at this point.

Do you really think reviving someone is logical?

[Mos1ey 6301]

Okay let's think of it realistically:

You are in a field, you're walking along and then BAM, headshot. You're bleeding profusely, your brain matter is everywhere, and you're practically a vegetable at this point.

Do you really think reviving someone is logical?

You should try reading before you post. It helps you not make an arse of yourself sometimes.

[Scerun 227]

When you said "revive" I was thinking of a system kind of similar, but one that I kinda despise.

the one you outline is actually a really great idea, and by facilitating a game play mechanic that enjoyably rids of instagibbing, without necessarily providing unfair gameplay - I welcome that.

The part that sold it for me was where being incapacitated a certain time after "revival" would be a sure death. Means no ultra-super-reviving, back-from-the-dead wierdness.

Oh, and ofcourse, certain types of death would be non-revivable.

Feels authentic, as Rocket would describe.

Just to further discussion a bit, I have a couple of questions:

Would you require an item to do this?

Or perhaps, if no item was required, what would you think of implementing that item, but instead the use of the item would provide better efficiency to revival. Say, more blood upon revival, or maybe less screen-blur/gun-shake/whatever.

Would broken bones be kept, if they had been recieved before incapacitation?

Edited August 20, 2012 by Scerun

[Dugar (DayZ) 3]

Jorden: As I said in the post, massive damage such as headshots would still kill you. Also the idea is to find a balance between what is realistic and what is convenient for the player. 3rd person is not realistic, but most of the servers have it anyway.

Russian Man: Yeah, people disconnecting/alt+f4 in combat are a bitch, but I don't see how that relates to the post.

[_Gunslinger_ 46]

This mechanic is already in place somewhat; a wounding hit from bigger rifles tends to incapacitate a player in a single hit, and they will be left passed out and bleeding.

[ZimRaggle 1]

I like this idea, would be hard ot implement correctly but it would be pretty cool if they did.

[Dugar (DayZ) 3]

When you said "revive" I was thinking of a system kind of similar, but one that I kinda despise.

the one you outline is actually a really great idea, and by facilitating a game play mechanic that enjoyably rids of instagibbing, without necessarily providing unfair gameplay - I welcome that.

The part that sold it for me was where being incapacitated a certain time after "revival" would be a sure death. Means no ultra-super-reviving, back-from-the-dead wierdness.

Oh, and ofcourse, certain types of death would be non-revivable.

Feels authentic, as Rocket would describe.

Just to further discussion a bit, I have a couple of questions:

Would you require an item to do this?

Or perhaps, if no item was required, what would you think of implementing that item, but instead the use of the item would provide better efficiency to revival. Say, more blood upon revival, or maybe less screen-blur/gun-shake/whatever.

Would broken bones be kept, if they had been recieved before incapacitation?

I was thinking about making the epi-pens the tool for reviving. They are fairly useless right now, unless your buddy is bugged in a never-ending coma. The other possibility would be to add something like shock pads to the game that would do that.

I think broken bones should stay broken, thats what morphine is for. After a revive you would be at low health too, so a blood bag would also be necessary. Having low blood at revival is important, as it will also hinder any "ultra-super-reviving" as you put it. The idea is to make the revival something you can't just do in a quick dash while the enemy is looking away.

[Nick8478 166]

Uh, no. If I get hit by a 5.45 or 5.56 (AK-74 and M16 family calibers respectively.), then I'm dead in a post apocalyptic scenario. Those rounds tumble and yaw, creating disgusting and brutal wounds that would be untreatable unless it grazed you or somehow went through a fleshy part of your body with no organs, arteries, ect (even then you'd be at severe risk of infection and still possibly bleed out). This would destroy your organ, cause massive internal bleeding, ect, and be a death sentence. Hell, even something like 7.62x39 (AKM) that passes straight through you would be untreatable...you'd bleed internally which would be untreatable. Basically anything you get shot with is going to kill you without what we call medicine today...

Not to mention the inevitable exploits this would have, as Dancing.Russian.Man has already mentioned.

Edited August 20, 2012 by Nick8478

[Mos1ey 6301]

Nah, they should add defib or something. Epinephrine wouldn't do anything, lol.

Uh, no. If I get hit by a 5.45 or 5.56 (AK-74 and M16 family calibers respectively.), then I'm dead in a post apocalyptic scenario. Those rounds tumble and yaw, creating disgusting and brutal wounds that would be untreatable unless it grazed you or somehow went through a fleshy part of your body with no organs, arteries, ect (even then you'd be at severe risk of infection and still possibly bleed out). This would destroy your organ, cause massive internal bleeding, ect, and be a death sentence. Hell, even something like 7.62x39 (AKM) that passes straight through you would be untreatable...you'd bleed internally which would be untreatable. Basically anything you get shot with is going to kill you without what we call medicine today...

Not to mention the inevitable exploits this would have, as Dancing.Russian.Man has already mentioned.

That's all good and well but it isn't reflected in the game currently anyway. Apparently I can bandage away a gunshot wound and morphine fixes up my spaghetti legs.

Edited August 20, 2012 by mZLY

[Bobcomss 189]

On the ARMA campaign if you get hit you fall to the ground screaming out for a medic?

Maybe add that to the game?

Nice idea though :) but has to be kept realistic, no revivals after getting a 7.42 though the chest ;)

AJ

[Dancing.Russian.Man 1631]

Okay let's think of it realistically:

You are in a field, you're walking along and then BAM, headshot. You're bleeding profusely, your brain matter is everywhere, and you're practically a vegetable at this point.

Do you really think reviving someone is logical?

"Receiving massive damage, like a headshot or getting blown to bits by a 'nade, would also kill you instantly."

Between the second and third paragraph.

Come on. Even by skim-reading, it would've been easy to spot.

[Dugar (DayZ) 3]

On the ARMA campaign if you get hit you fall to the ground screaming out for a medic?

Maybe add that to the game?

Nice idea though :) but has to be kept realistic, no revivals after getting a 7.42 though the chest ;)

AJ

But eating a cow to fix that hole is just fine?

Yes, revival would be slightly unrealistic, but much less so than transfusing some random blood you found in the trash to gain health. The point is to offer a mechanic that would shift the gameplay away from the currently favoured tactic of sitting in a bush with ghille suit and nvg while scanning around you in 3rd person.

[bazbake 456]

Uh, no. If I get hit by a 5.45 or 5.56 (AK-74 and M16 family calibers respectively.), then I'm dead in a post apocalyptic scenario. Those rounds tumble and yaw, creating disgusting and brutal wounds that would be untreatable unless it grazed you or somehow went through a fleshy part of your body with no organs, arteries, ect (even then you'd be at severe risk of infection and still possibly bleed out). This would destroy your organ, cause massive internal bleeding, ect, and be a death sentence. Hell, even something like 7.62x39 (AKM) that passes straight through you would be untreatable...you'd bleed internally which would be untreatable. Basically anything you get shot with is going to kill you without what we call medicine today...

You fail at ballistics.

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Fackler_Articles/effects_of_small_arms.pdf

The pictures included show you a map of what ballistic damage actually does. Tumbling and yawing don't cause a significant increase in wound trauma. 1) Flesh, organs, and muscle are elastic and recover instantaneously from the stretching caused by temporary cavitation, 2) bullet yawing in flesh isn't predictable, 3) bullet yawing/tumbling is a process which starts and ends so the entire wound won't be increased.

Read up on what bullets actually do and try again.

Anyway, there's already a system in place for reviving fallen survivors. It's called bandage, bloodbag, epi-pen. Only teammates and friends can apply bloodbags. The rest of this is self-described OP. The people discussing bringing people back from the dead through magical handshakes seem to be ignoring the advantages that teamwork already provide.

Seriously, it sounds like you're more motivated by a desperate need to ignore battlefield dangers and hit a pause button on your friend dying in the middle of a firefight so he doesn't bleed out before you can get to him.

If you want to save your friend, keep him from dying by using HEALING ITEMS, several of which are ONLY USABLE ON OTHER PLAYERS.

[Nick8478 166]

You fail at ballistics.

http://ammo.ar15.com..._small_arms.pdf

The pictures included show you a map of what ballistic damage actually does. Tumbling and yawing don't cause a significant increase in wound trauma. 1) Flesh, organs, and muscle are elastic and recover instantaneously from the stretching caused by temporary cavitation, 2) bullet yawing in flesh isn't predictable, 3) bullet yawing/tumbling is a process which starts and ends so the entire wound won't be increased.

Read up on what bullets actually do and try again.

Anyway, there's already a system in place for reviving fallen survivors. It's called bandage, bloodbag, epi-pen. Only teammates and friends can apply bloodbags. The rest of this is self-described OP. The people discussing bringing people back from the dead through magical handshakes seem to be ignoring the advantages that teamwork already provide.

Seriously, it sounds like you're more motivated by a desperate need to ignore battlefield dangers and hit a pause button on your friend dying in the middle of a firefight so he doesn't bleed out before you can get to him.

If you want to save your friend, keep him from dying by using HEALING ITEMS, several of which are ONLY USABLE ON OTHER PLAYERS.

You seem the ingore what I said about no modern medicine. A 5.56x45 NATO/.223 Remington or a 7n6 5.45x39 round will cause a much, much nastier wound than say, a 7.62x39. I've seen videos of pig carcases being shot with 5.56. Small entrance wound, but out the back there's a massive, uniform whole in the damn thing that would be impossible to survive without modern medicine. Hell, even with it, it's probably going to kill you. I've done testing myself as well on different materials, same result. Compare that to say, a 7.62x39 or similar rounds, which may leave a larger entrance wound, but the wound is more uniform, straight, and the exit wound isn't near as nasty.

[clever 12]

Eh, death already isn't really that big of a deal considering you can get back equally good gear in an hour or so. With most kills not being from explosives or headshots, this would pretty much mean as long as you have someone with you your chances of dying are slimmer.

[doom4mr 135]

I think there should be new medical system, more realistic and then in some cases you will be able to heal other survivors.

[Bukethead 96]

You fail at ballistics.

http://ammo.ar15.com..._small_arms.pdf

The pictures included show you a map of what ballistic damage actually does. Tumbling and yawing don't cause a significant increase in wound trauma. 1) Flesh, organs, and muscle are elastic and recover instantaneously from the stretching caused by temporary cavitation, 2) bullet yawing in flesh isn't predictable, 3) bullet yawing/tumbling is a process which starts and ends so the entire wound won't be increased.

Read up on what bullets actually do and try again.

Anyway, there's already a system in place for reviving fallen survivors. It's called bandage, bloodbag, epi-pen. Only teammates and friends can apply bloodbags. The rest of this is self-described OP. The people discussing bringing people back from the dead through magical handshakes seem to be ignoring the advantages that teamwork already provide.

Seriously, it sounds like you're more motivated by a desperate need to ignore battlefield dangers and hit a pause button on your friend dying in the middle of a firefight so he doesn't bleed out before you can get to him.

If you want to save your friend, keep him from dying by using HEALING ITEMS, several of which are ONLY USABLE ON OTHER PLAYERS.

Picks up a ballistics PDF from ar15.com

Instant ballistics expert

SEEMS LEGIT.

I don't know what kind of an alien cyborg you are but once human flesh is cut, it does not heal and refuse instantaneously. The yawing and tumbling of a bullet rips through flesh, I don't understand how you think this isn't the case. Have you seen what 5.56 does to the human body? I sure as hell wouldn't want to be shot with it, and I don't think you would either.

Edited August 20, 2012 by Bukethead

[xeaglenec 13]

Man you have to laugh when you hear people saying that reviving is "not realistic" and they are OK playing a fucking zombie game, using morphine to insta fix broken bones... oh god, please, wake up.

reviving would be great. add a rare item for it and gg

Edited August 20, 2012 by EaGLe

[Baelethal 102]

I've used the ACE mod for ArmA, and though the medical system takes some time to learn, it's quite immersive, and kinda fun to have to deal with. I wouldn't be opposed to testing a system like the one in ACE, though I'm not convinced it's any different than what's already in place in DayZ. There are still timers, and still windows of opportunity to "revive" a fallen comrade. I must say, however, that once your blood goes negative, there's nothing anyone can truly do for you, and we just need to accept the reality of the situation. Running back to your group is just one of the consequences of the game.

[bazbake 456]

You seem the ingore what I said about no modern medicine. A 5.56x45 NATO/.223 Remington or a 7n6 5.45x39 round will cause a much, much nastier wound than say, a 7.62x39. I've seen videos of pig carcases being shot with 5.56. Small entrance wound, but out the back there's a massive, uniform whole in the damn thing that would be impossible to survive without modern medicine. Hell, even with it, it's probably going to kill you. I've done testing myself as well on different materials, same result. Compare that to say, a 7.62x39 or similar rounds, which may leave a larger entrance wound, but the wound is more uniform, straight, and the exit wound isn't near as nasty.

Human flesh isn't different materials. Human flesh is human flesh filled with meat and fluid. Pig carcasses are empty. Tumbling rounds tend to exit the body base-first after yawing 90 degrees. The 5.56 round is actually notorious for failing to yaw when it's supposed to, making it actually an underperformer with a tendency to overpenetrate according to reports from Afghanistan.

Just saying...facts are facts.

Edited August 21, 2012 by BazBake

[Haplo (DayZ) 44]

i would only be okay with this if:

after being "revived" you have very low blood (<2000), if you have broken bones, they are still broken, and you need painkillers intermittently. when you next log off, you cannot continue playing with that character for a period of time (at least one week?) to similate recovery time.

[Nick8478 166]

Human flesh isn't different materials. Human flesh is human flesh filled with meat and fluid. Pig carcasses are empty. Tumbling rounds tend to exit the body base-first after yawing 90 degrees. The 5.56 round is actually notorious for failing to yaw when it's supposed to, making it actually an underperformer with a tendency to overpenetrate according to reports from Afghanistan.

Just saying...facts are facts.

The problems from Afghanistan are due to the short 16 inch barrels of the now standard M4 carbine. Out of a 20 inch barrel (M16-M16A4) the M855 round tumbles and yaws properly.

Edited August 21, 2012 by Nick8478

[jameswjwong@gmail.com 14]

The sort of metagaming suggested by the op would be greatly welcome, maybe with more debilitation nd conditions. Anyone who cries realism have lists of other things to worry about.

On actual arma 2 modes revival is already widespread and with good reason.