Thermal vision. Does it belong in this game?

[PoisonedAl 128]

oh ffs

Edited August 17, 2012 by PoisonedAl

[Shaftmetwisted 1]

Yes, it should be in the game.

WHY? Because it's not hard to escape an L85's awesome power. You're usuing it at night mainly, some people use it during the day but theres no need for that if you have a m107/as50. I've put what seems to be 10+ rounds in a guys chest at 100m with it and all he did was pass out.. still took more shots to kill him.

It's weak, and not effective for anything other then a spotter in you're group.. If you say it's not fair then get one of you're own and spot with it.

[gizm0 96]

Oh I won't argue that there isn't balance issues, just that degradation is as much fun as dental surgery. Hunting rare ammo for an exotic gun is one thing, having it turn to dust is another. With the first you have the option to cart around a huge lump of metal in the hope of finding ammo for it or abandoning it. Degradation mean you're just scared to use the weapon because it has a limited life. It's unfair and unfun.

All I can say is, go play System Shock 2. Well soon see if anyone still think degradation is a good idea.

But weapons do degrade as you use, without proper cleaning... ever seen a bolt break in an m16 due to poor cleaning? You say its a boring mechinic but it does add authenticity, since weapons do grim up after being fired.

[chris p. bacon 182]

Thermal is the spotter's best tool. Snipers in ghillies watching Stary from 900 meters away with an M107 are invincible when no one can detect them. Something needs to keep snipers from being so effective.

[ZenBC 35]

Thermal sight is basically just a spotting tool. It's useless for CQ (anything closer than about 200m) unless you get the drop on a target and he's not moving. They're practically dead weight in your pack because they take up a ton of space and can't shoot for crap. If you wanna make it even more useless - put the thermal on the FNFAL instead. Something that doesn't use STANAG mags (which are everywhere) so basically you'll almost never have ammo for it...

People still get the drop on me sometimes with a thermal - it doesn't see over hills or perfectly through trees. It's simply a great spotting tool but useless as a gun - the way I think it should be. Leave the thermal, but make the gun even more useless - 10 spaces in the bag but one mag? Next to useless unless you're part of a squad...

[magicool 115]

Thermal isnt in the game, it got removed, dont know when its coming back...

wtf you're talkin L85 is still in the game...

and yes it should stay in the game but way VERY VERY VERY RARE should be the rarest weapon!

Edited August 17, 2012 by Magicool

[CptBywater 10]

For thermal to be balanced, there would need to be two types of ghillie suits, the regular, run of the mill one and a multi-spectral ghillie suit (no thermal signature).

[Jaoai 16]

Someone said there should be degradation in guns, there kind of will be as soon as the ammo glitches are fixed. When you run out of ammo for your super rare weapon and ammo alike, how long will you keep it before picking up something you can actually shoot with as a secondary primary?

I forsee the AKM/AK's being the most popular choices soon. :-)

Ammo can be found everywhere.

[Mastiff (DayZ) 42]

However an "okay" assault rifle with thermal? Not so much.

The rifle isn't even important but the scope itself, when I had my L85 I had it for ages before I was finally killed... by a hacker. Up to that point I had pretty much scouted out everyone I came across using the thermal vision in day and night, all I need to do was right click and spin my scope along the tree lines and horizon and I had scanned for survivors/zombies. It got to the point that I was so lazy I didn't even bother visually inspecting the area with binoculars I just looked for zombie spawns in the thermal scope and if I was 300m I knew fine someone is there.

The only downside of the thermal is that it can't see through glass which is fair and everything else is a massive positive. Being able to carry two weapons using a back pack pretty much makes any second primary weapon even more deadly. I come across so many snipers using an L85 + Rifle X because of how effective the thermal is. I remember my first kill when finding someone with it, I was literally approaching elektro from one side and I decided to scope into the town... looked didn't see anything of interest but a small heat signature behind the power plant up on the hill and this was broad day light... guy was wearing a ghillie suit and I just pop out my DMR... dead, so I decided to sit around and the kills just kept coming.

It is unfair and unbalanced, the only way they could make this fair is if you had to carry batteries for it and the power was used up quickly, then again everyone would just dupe batteries so... The gun isn't OP because to be honest the L85 is pretty bad, low damage and low range but the thermal makes it a master scout rifle, on top of the laser...

[nucleqrwinter@gmail.com 156]

On second thought, go die in a fire!

Weapon degradation has long been documented as a lazy and VERY annoying balance mechanic. NOBODY likes it and it only gets used when game designers are lazy idiots (eg: Dead Island).

http://en.reddit.com/r/dayz/comments/y4x6i/iama_rocket_potential_questions/c5sd9zh

Check this out.

Inb4 he suddenly defends the idea of some kind of weapon degradation.

Edited August 17, 2012 by Nucleqrwinter

[Larkins 38]

I hate the thermal, not because I think it's over powered or because I don't have one. I hate it because of the unknown. Is there someone out there watching me as I sneak around? It adds an extra risk to the game. So I hate it, but I also like it because of that.

Although I would hate to see too many on a server, that would take the fun out of it.

[Jex =TE= (DayZ) 218]

Remove the thermal scopes - there's plenty of things to find out there that taking them out isn't a big deal OR make them need regular maintenance like any other piece of kit and a damageable item if it gets shot or hit. If you want a realistic thermal sight then either make it realistic or take it out.

[Zymi 64]

It shouldn't be in the game.

[reuben5150 83]

My squad owns about 4 L85's and most of us agree they're over-powered and as much as an advantage they give i'd like to see them removed, or as Death said hae some sort of camo to hide yourself from they eagle-eye thermal. I can see snipers in a treeline 700meters away before they can see me although they've been camping whereas i'd just be running through an area. The only time we really use our thermals is for counter-sniping idiots who sit at elektro/cherno sniping off players with no weapons. That's just my pot-o'-gold for the thermal scopes.

Agreed, it needs come out, its fucking easy mode for noobs.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

NOBODY likes it and it only gets used when game designers are lazy idiots (eg: Dead Island).

Uhh, rocket likes it. He has discussed his plans to add it to DayZ on several different occasions...

[reuben5150 83]

wtf you're talkin L85 is still in the game...

and yes it should stay in the game but way VERY VERY VERY RARE should be the rarest weapon!

Yeah but due to hacking and duping nothing is rare, so it need to go, for now.

[Jex =TE= (DayZ) 218]

Yeah but due to hacking and duping nothing is rare, so it need to go, for now.

Well it's rare for the people that don't have, don't hack and don't dupe - you know, the people playing the game how it was meant to be played? So right now, the game is punishing the players that are playing the game the way it was designed to be played and rocket is bending over for all the hackers and glitchers out there and shouting "take me! take me!"

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

But countering a person, or squad that has thermal vision seems -impossible- to escape without alt-f4ing

Hint: Get one of your own. BAM! Countered. That was far from impossible, right?

Everyone else blathering about the game being "so imbalanced" can we discuss that for a second, okay? Because every player in this game has equal and full access to every item in this game at any time. It's not like you have to be "Level 50" or a "Scout Class" to acquire and use these weapons and tools. You can literally spawn, run north, find an L85 or a sniper rifle and do whatever the fuck you want to do with it. Stop calling the game "imbalanced" when what you mean is "I don't want people to shoot me before I get a chance to shoot them."

Flashlight vs. Winchester is imbalanced, so go get a Winchester. Winchester vs. AKM is imbalanced, so go get an AKM or equivalent. Squad combat is imbalanced when one squad has an L85 so get get a motherfucking L85 and start using it to "win the game" or whatever you think it's going to do for you (hint: it's really not that great).

Just like I said the last time this thread appeared. And the time before that.

Same asinine reasoning every time the thread crops up. "Oh, I can't do anything to counter it despite having every opportunity to do exactly what the person who has the gun did to acquire it in the first place."

I really don't understand the debate.

If the L85 is a powerful tool for survival, get one. Find one at a helicopter crash or find someone who has one and chew their windpipe out with your teeth and the take the goddamn thing while they choke on their own bloody vomit.

What's the problem?

I don't understand why it's taking so long for you people to come around to the notion that maybe this game isn't meant to be perfectly well-balanced in favor of all possible styles of play, items, load-outs, team configurations, and dietary needs.

Certain combinations of certain weapons are going to confer a strategic advantage over your opponents. Long-ranged weapons will allow you to attack from long range. Camouflage equipment will permit you to camouflage yourself. Vehicles permit travel at rates far greater than foot. And, yes, maybe having someone in your group of friends (you do have friends in the game by now, right? You're not engaging in a discussion about high-end weaponry when you haven't even taken the step of making a couple friends in the game to watch your back, right?) who carries an L85 maybe might be a good goddamn idea. Maybe even required for long term, consistent success?

Maybe that's okay?

Maybe it's not so bad that you need to get off your lazy asses and get the fuck out there and find one if you think it's so important and critical to your success in the game.

"Oh, no. It's really powerful. Better take it out."

Like, okay, if we follow that rationale to it's logical conclusion we're all going to be riding around on fucking unicycles shooting each other with slingshots.

The gun is good.

Okay.

Established.

Now go get it and put it to good use, you whimpering lack-wits.

[reuben5150 83]

Well it's rare for the people that don't have, don't hack and don't dupe - you know, the people playing the game how it was meant to be played? So right now, the game is punishing the players that are playing the game the way it was designed to be played and rocket is bending over for all the hackers and glitchers out there and shouting "take me! take me!"

Yes but they are not hard to find, just go looking for tents, hacking and duping has created an overabundance of hi-end gear, this gear is rarly lost, it just moves around.

I see little reason to have the thermal scope in the game, it gives people easy mode just like NVG's do, i thought Dayz was meant to be hard.

[reuben5150 83]

But countering a person, or squad that has thermal vision seems -impossible- to escape without alt-f4ing, unless you are unbelievably lucky and find one yourself, then land a good shot before they can.

One time we were ambushed by one or maybe two guys with L85's, must have been 300m out and two of my guys were killed, as soon as the shots came towards me i hit the deck and just rolled over and over, got away with broken bones and 5k blood, hard but not impossible to escape.

Btw, there was a good reason why the NV scope in Battlefield 3 was nerfed, this thermal scope is exacty like that, just a different display color really.

Edited August 17, 2012 by Mutagen_7B4

[ben_c 140]

Remove thermal optics from the L85? Sure, as long as ghillie suits are removed in the same brush stroke. After all, all the proposers of removing thermal in here should be able to pick a decent fire position that offers them cover from view and fire without needing an outfit made from cabage, right?

I agree that the idea of 'balance' in DayZ should remain ambigious, as ZDB has stated there is nothing stopping you from getting off your arse and getting a thermal capability. It seems that a percentage of our sniper bretheren want to be as Zeus, throwing thunderbolts at the mortals with impunity. The thermal scope represents the one thing that should keep those types twitchy and looking over their shoulder, remove it and they have their very own 'god mode'.

For the record I'm not against snipers, it's a sandbox after all, right? You have your style and I have mine.

[gizm0 96]

snip

I think that people want a counter for it, and not a equivalent.. I mean paper doesn't counter paper.

Now I'm not gonna say thermal scopes need a counter, but I do think it wouldn't be bad if we toss around the idea of a way to mask your thermal signature, or even having leaves make it less intense at range.

[Patient Zer0 39]

All I can say is, go play System Shock 2. Well soon see if anyone still think degradation is a good idea.

I loved the degradation in System Shock 2. In fact, that's one of my favorite games of all time. It was a thrill finding one of those Leatherman multitools and knowing I could keep my pimped out shotgun going for a little longer.

Weapon degradation forces players to make choices. Choices are good to force players to make. This has long been documented that EVERYBODY loves choices.

Do you pick up that fancy, finicky M4A1 CCO SD that will break down as soon as it rains, or do you stick with a trusty AK-74 that will keep running forever? Is the advantage of a "better" gun worth the hassle of extra care and maintenance? Do you like the 'never fail' simplicity of the revolver, or do you not mind having to keep the silencer on your M9 cleaned and tuned?

These are questions that soldiers in the real world have to deal with. Unlike the soldiers in the real world, in DayZ the choice is left up to the player. Every weapon has its good sides and bad sides, not just in the areas of accuracy and power, and with weapon reliability and maintenance that could be well reflected in the game.

Ask anyone who used one in combat and they'll tell you what a piece of crap the M16 is. That why there have been so many successive 'improvements' made to it. Yet in DayZ it works just as reliably as a Kalishnikov and hits harder too. That's just not correct.

On topic: Thermal is fine as long as it's attached to a gun that can't snipe. The problem is people carrying the L86 just for the thermal, then pulling their 35lb, 5 foot long AS50 out of their backpack for the shooting.

[reuben5150 83]

I agree that the idea of 'balance' in DayZ should remain ambigious, as ZDB has stated there is nothing stopping you from getting off your arse and getting a thermal capability.

And ? easy mode gets boring after a while.

How about trying to spot/counter snipe the good old way, binoculars/scope, directional sound and muzzle flash/smoke, hell if you play on the right server you even get a name tag just like BF, but noooo this too hard.

Thats why all this OP shit is really just a noob crutch and about the only reason people go out beyond cherno.

[Foolproof 0]

I think for thermal, NV, flashlights, and anything else that requires batteries should die after extended use. When you pick it up it has batteries that are at different % of charge then you have to track down batteries if you want to continue to use them.