Lee enfield Vs. Fn Fal & M14

[Who cares? 13]

Jeesh guys. . .

Barrel length usually effects velocity more than anything when it comes to guns. Powder charge has some effect too and rather it burns fast or slow upon detonation and rather that charge provides somewhat even pressure as the bullet travels the barrel or drops off rapidly before the bullet actually left the barrel. (Granted I admit there is a spike in pressure as the bullet is being pushed out the cartridge!) Another big big factor is how well the bullet seats in the barrel as it is being shot out thus keeping that pressure behind it for as long as possible while traveling the barrel. The action it self has little to do with it when it comes to velocity in fact I think the energy transferance there is less than 1 percent.

Now here is the rub. . . in a blowback type action (aka most semi auto 22lr are blowback actions) it's the weight of the bolt / spring pressure / hammer spring pressure that keeps that action closed for as long as possible until that little bullet reaches close to the end of the barrel as possible. But not all automatic reloaders have blowback type actions. . . most centerfire rifles are gas operated, some are recoil operated. M-16's for example are gas operated or more specificially direct impengement gas operated. The FN-FAL is also gas operated but its a short stroke gas piston gas operated design. AK 47's are long stroke gas piston operated. Still most 22LR's in the semi-auto form have shorter barrels while their bolt action versions have longer barrels which is why the one poster might be noticing such a difference in stopping power.

I hate to be grusome here but. . .

Bullet type and the various mechanics behind it effect killing or stopping power. . . FMJ's for the most part are piss poor stoppers unless the rifle / bullet was designed to allow for end over end turning once it struck the denser medium of flesh. . . SP's tend to be better since they have some controlled expansion, HP's are usually better yet (again some controlled expansion). . . but it really matters how well the bullet was made and how much velocity was left when it strikes the target and really rather or not it just punches right though or stays in. (aka is has alot to do with energy transferance as well bullet placement.)

Course all that doesn't mean squat if you can't hit your what your aiming at too.

There are other things that factor in. . . But I'm reluctant to actually talk about them here.

Still the .303 - vs - .308 or 7.7mm / 7.62mm have very similar ballistics wise and there wouldn't be much noticable difference between the two even if you pulled out the old Vickers .303 MG and pitted against the FN MAG (M240 Bravo). Yea yea I know the old Vickers has a longer barrel and such while the MAG has a shorter one. . . Also I know the the Vickers has a lower velocity at the muzzle - vs- the higher of the MAG. But the reason why the Vickers has a longer effective range is because it is because it is heavy and fires each round much slowly and thus more stable for aiming. Which makes a huge difference when talking about 'effective range'.

The other factor while it was mentioned, boils down to the quality of the gun made. You over charge a .303 round and put it in a old well used and not well maintained Enfield it might just blow up in your face dispite the caseing being able to hold a bit more powder. And while more modern .308 rifles are designed to handle a bit more pressure, the same thing could happen if the breach was compromised in some way. Or the head spacing wasn't quite right. Same thing can be said about the older Winchester in the game which shoots shotgun rounds (back then they shot I believe a 2.5 inch length 12 gauge (I can't remember if it was pure blackpowder or not) -vs- the more modern 2.75 or 3 or even 3.5 inch length 12 gauge smokeless powder round!)

Ok I've said way too much. . . It's time to run. Me and my stupid hobbies anyway ;p

[weld 26]

Double-action revolver cylinders do not rotate AFTER firing, they rotate before firing.

FN-FAL and M14 don't use direct blowback operation. You won't see any appreciable difference in velocity based on the action type.

However, .303 British and 7.62x51 are very similar in velocity and energy from comparable barrel lengths.

Your servant,

Weld

Edited August 7, 2012 by weld

[Who cares? 13]

Yea if memory serves me right I believe the M-14 is a long stroke piston gas operated action. Not that it matters really.

Still I left out a lot of stuff while trying to explain some things. I believe my posting specifically states the FN-FAL is a short stroke piston gas operated action even in the 'Para' version in where they took the bolt carrier's springs out of the stock and made them shorter in the receiver.

Colt M1911's are recoil operated and I think Beretta M9's are lever / lock delayed blowback if my memory is right.

Don't remember what the Maky is. . . probabily some variation of a blowback.

Alrighty as I've said enough and some of this is going outside the OP original intended posting.

Edited August 7, 2012 by Who cares?

[evolution (DayZ) 51]

I like pie.

[koze 113]

I used 150 grain vs 150 grain standard loads. Sure the .303 is slightly bigger (7,7mm vs 7.62mm), but it's nothing that has an impact. So you have two bullets that weigh the same, one is slightly bigger, but the other is slightly faster (860m/s vs 844 m/s) which doesn't do any real difference either.

It's the same with the 180grain bullet, the .308 is slightly faster again.

All in all, the .308 does more damage.

As for semi vs bolt; I get about 865m/s in my M1 Garand with some factory ammo I had lying around, my friend gets 866m/s with the same rounds in his Tikka T3 (50 rounds in the box, we shot 25 each, both velocities being averages over the 25 rounds). That's about 0.12% difference which isn't worth mentioning or debating imho.

So if what your saying is that they do almost identicle damage ect, why does one have such a major advantage in the game?

[Golgo82 28]

Ask Bohemia Interactive not Rocket, because that change was made in the base code of Arma 2 not the mod code of DayZ.

It has already been stated by rocket that..

-he is looking into it

-he is reluctant to change basic arma code because it would be a lot of work to maintain these changes throughout arma2 patch-advancement.

This is not rocket science people, you can know these things if you

A: read the damn forums

B: read the damn patchnotes(not just DayZ ones..)

Time for some shuteye

[Zeromentor 169]

Double-action revolver cylinders do not rotate AFTER firing, they rotate before firing.

FN-FAL and M14 don't use direct blowback operation. You won't see any appreciable difference in velocity based on the action type.

However, .303 British and 7.62x51 are very similar in velocity and energy from comparable barrel lengths.

Your servant,

Weld

Thank you, I was so tired I might have well have said, "I like Trains" because I was wrong in many spots of my postings. But hey, we've all been there before.

Beans to you for catching my mistakes, as well as others.

[xfortune 91]

Your second link goes to the same page.

But to answer your question as to why, this is a GAME. Regarless what actual stats are in real life, the devs are going to balance the weapons so there isnt 1 super weapon etc.

Uh... No they aren't. Some guns are just objectively better (AS50, FAL, etc.). It's a military SIMULATOR, focused on realism.

[Zeromentor 169]

Uh... No they aren't. Some guns are just objectively better (AS50, FAL, etc.). It's a military SIMULATOR, focused on realism.

You forgot to point out that the M136 is a superweapon. You miss, they die. You hit, they die. They hide in a building? They die. They try run away in a truck? They die.

Superweapon.

[stephen@mycopyrightnow.com 3]

Having fired a real Enfield .303 recently, I can say that it's delivery is like a sledgehammer.

[Steppwolf 97]

Recently the Lee enfield was heavily nerfed, from 12500 damage to 6722.

Now both the M14 & Fn Fal fire a 7.62x51mm round, and the Lee Enfield fires a .303.

So why the f*ck can these two assault rifles do more damage than a weapon that has a bigger bullet? Oh and don't forget its bolt action so its 10-30% more powerful than a semi-automatic rifle.

I'm not saying bring back the Lee Enfield to a 1 hit kill, but increase it to 9-10k. Or atleast bring it back to 8k, It still is only a 2 hit kill and 1 to the head, incase you guys forgot the Lee Enfield is basically a Sniper Rifle, but without the scope.

If anyone was wondering where I found the information:

Heres the weapon stats of the nerfed weapons, before and after.

http://dayzdb.com/ne...es-in-arma2-162

Heres the damage of all the weapons in DayZ.

http://dayzdb.com/da...apon-comparison

Wow! Can you stop making these stupid ass QQ threads... There is no "DayZ" weapon nerf since arma OA is the ones releasing the patches with weapon stat changes, so fuck off and stop whining good sir!

[Just a Goat 25]

Oh and don't forget its bolt action so its 10-30% more powerful than a semi-automatic rifle.

What is with people and this idea? Seriously? I hear some of the most inane stuff on this forum, but that right there is surprisingly common.

Self loading vs. bolt action is pretty much irrelevant.

.303 vs. .308 comes down to projectile type, that's about it. If you're using ancient round nosed FMJ's in the Enfield, then the terminal ballistics will suck.

[Brint 40]

ofcourse no ones going to be running around with .22 shooting zombies with them but you get my point.

Are you kidding me? If there were .22s in DayZ, they'd be all I would use.

[Duckman404 37]

There is a reason why the army uses bolt action rifles.

Accuracy and reliability. It's got nothing to do with how much velocity is bled off by working an action; a well designed bolt action is going to outshine a semi-auto when it comes to both accuracy and reliability, which is why bolt actions are almost exclusively used by snipers (in the military, that is).

This 10-30% number is a load of bollocks, too. There is a very small percentage of gas or recoiling energy used to work the action in auto-loaders, but it's nowhere near even 10% of the energy.

Colt M1911's are recoil operated and I think Beretta M9's are lever / lock delayed blowback if my memory is right.

Don't remember what the Maky is. . . probabily some variation of a blowback

M1911 uses short recoil, Beretta 92/M9 uses short recoil as well but with a wedge style locking mechanism, similar to the german P-38. Makarov is straight blowback, relying on the weight of the slide.