Please remove "L85A2 AWS"

[Faggala 29]

I do believe the gun is quite un-necessary for the supposed play style of the game.

[Profaith 2]

So, what you people are saying, is that if you play on a nighttime server and you dont have one(l85) you insta-lose

OMFGWTFBBQSAUCE TAKE OUT NVG THEY R SO OP RRAAAAAAAAG!! Oh, while at it...AS50 WTF! They one shot you! Unfair since you cant even fight back!

[dev0 19]

Oh, look. This ridiculous thread again.

Allow me to conveniently recall my response to it from the previous discussion.

It is still applicable.

Actually not. I do play on a squad of 3-6 people. We have multiple L85. We looted them from heli crash sites as well as from our enemies cold hands. I did everything you demand in your post and still I believe the L85 breaks PVP in this game. I'd actually say that if you don't realize how broken the L85 is, you are either not doing squad PVP against equally geared squads or you have never actually used an L85. There's also the option of you being an ignorant idiot, but I wouldn't impute that to anyone.

[spawn (DayZ) 217]

aggree. this weapon is just for spotting. I mean have you tried to shoot something 500m away with this thing. sure you can zero it but iakes about 5 seconds for the round to get there meaning you have to aim like 10m in front of someone to hit him. and if you hit himk it wont kill him. its for spotting. I have one in my backpack and i swap it for my M4 CCO SD

[malkcontent 6]

one of the things that make the thermal sight so imba is that it annihilates the distance-fog. You don't only pick up heat signatures, you also have completely unhindered sight at long range. Counterspotting without thermal vision is already hard, but at great distances it's downright impossible, because you get the unnatural fog.

[tom_gr7 20]

I think they should add a standard SA80 with SUSAT or ACOG sight and relgate the thermal sight to a standard thermal scope, [works like binoculars]

+1

I was in the British army, using the SA80-A2 / L85 either with ironsights and susat sight, some infantry units got the newer Acog scopes, but only once did I see one with a thermal sight on it, it wasn't practical at all...I think Rcoket should make the thermal sight separate.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

I'd actually say that if you don't realize how broken the L85 is, you are either not doing squad PVP against equally geared squads or you have never actually used an L85. There's also the option of you being an ignorant idiot, but I wouldn't impute that to anyone.

If they're equally geared, in what sense has the been PvP broken? What advantage are you gaining over their squad that they could not be equally gaining over yours with better tactics, superior numbers or both? Please, specifically indicate the ways in which this gun "breaks" the game.

Do people with an L85 have advantage over a group wtihout one? Yes, but in much the same way a group with maks and revolvers have an advantage over beach spawn with flashlights, or the way in which a group with AKMs and FN FALs have an advantage over those with winchesters and crossbows. or the way in which a group with an AS50 and a pair of binoculars have against someone standing in the middle of a field in broad daylight adjusting their nutsack or trying to take screenshots of the sweet double rainbow they spotted so they can post it on reddit.

What is it that makes the L85 more "game-breaking" than any of these other seemingly imbalanced situations? Especially considering that anyone in the game has full and equal access to the weapon?

"It's very powerful, so obviously it's broken," is a vacuous argument. Fill it with something of substance.

Oh, and if you want to insult me please just man up and do it, dude. "I wouldn't impute that on anyone." Oh, how very fucking droll of you. Were you feeling proud when you hit submit?

Edited August 13, 2012 by ZedsDeadBaby

[Polkaman 60]

100%. It's fucking ridiculous

[Hydra (DayZ) 472]

My only experience against a player toting an L85 ended up with him coming after me and me leaning from around a tree to hip fire and shoot him in the face with an M107. Took his gear, left the gun.

The L85's only advantage is the scope.

[Smiling Bandit 5]

Remove it. The difference between having one and not having one is too significant.

I agree with the second part. Keep it!

[Escargot 5]

+1

Leave the gun in, take the scope out. Give it Holo or Acog instead.

I'd like more variety in the weapons I carry, at the moment I have to have the L85 because of how ridiculous it is. I'd much rather carry a more fun or silenced weap instead.

Getting in a firefight is fun but getting shot by someone / team who had this gun and therefore rendered your cleverly hidden position and camouflage completely useless is less so.

There is an interesting balance (of sorts) to the guns in the game but this one is just out of whack.

Edited August 13, 2012 by Escargot

[Astaa 11]

I found one in a tent, had a lot of fun with it until some script kiddie killed everyone on the server.

[mayfaire 2]

This gun is just fine as it is, in my opinion you actually waste a weapon slot with it.

If you are not completely visually impaired you actually can spot your enemy better with a sniper scope. Because the L85A2 frequently shows no thermal-target through grass or bushes, whereas you could easily see the target through a default sniper scope.

Besides the accuracy and damage sucks donkey dicks.

[Cysquatch 5]

Agreed but I think we need to go a step further and remove several of the more ridiculous military weapons from the game. Not just because I find a few of them to be overpowered but because it kills the immersion for me. Since when did the Czech Republic squeeze anti-material rifles into there military budget? Having thermal scopes and 50 caliber sniper rifles in this world really puts a damper on the authenticity of the setting I feel.

Here you will find a list of the small arms the Czech Republic currently uses: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_the_Czech_Republic

[dev0 19]

If they're equally geared, in what sense has the been PvP broken? What advantage are you gaining over their squad that they could not be equally gaining over yours with better tactics, superior numbers or both? Please, specifically indicate the ways in which this gun "breaks" the game.

Do people with an L85 have advantage over a group wtihout one? Yes, but in much the same way a group with maks and revolvers have an advantage over beach spawn with flashlights, or the way in which a group with AKMs and FN FALs have an advantage over those with winchesters and crossbows. or the way in which a group with an AS50 and a pair of binoculars have against someone standing in the middle of a field in broad daylight adjusting their nutsack or trying to take screenshots of the sweet double rainbow they spotted so they can post it on reddit.

What is it that makes the L85 more "game-breaking" than any of these other seemingly imbalanced situations? Especially considering that anyone in the game has full and equal access to the weapon?

"It's very powerful, so obviously it's broken," is a vacuous argument. Fill it with something of substance.

To measure the effect of something you will have to eradicate any other factors. So if you want to measure or look at the effect of the L85 on squad based game-play, you will have to compare squads equally geared and of equal skill-level. You should distribute various different numbers of L85s to these squads. You will then be able to measure the effect a L85 has on squad based game-play.

And yes, there are temporary imbalances in the game, like not having access to firearms, or playing like a half-foot, being outclassed gear-wise by higher tier weapons, etc. The point to all of those is that you have multiple or very generic approaches to solves those problems. You can gear up. You can pay more attention to the game and it's mechanics. You can outmaneuver your opponent. You basically have options. Having options is what drives a game. That is why open-world and sandbox games are so compelling. They provide a shitload of options. The reality about the L85 is there is only one option: get as many as you can on your squad. No question about it.

The difference between very powerful and broken is that a broken mechanic will have a positive feedback loop that continues to add to itself. Usually you have the options of "play it or beat it". With a broken mechanic around this is basically reduced to "play it", because there is virtually no way to beat it (without over-dedicating resources to it - which I don't even see as a possibility in the case of the L85). If your meta-game is stuck in such a positive feedback loop by a mechanic, you must consider it broken.

There once was a nice write-up on what makes a game mechanic broken by Aaron Forsythe from Wizards of the Coast following the banning of Skullclamp. I don't know if anyone involved in this discussion ever played Magic: The Gathering, let alone competitively. But if you ever did, you should read it. It provides great insight on for what reasons mechanics should be considered broken. In my eyes the L85 absolutely fits this description.

Oh, and if you want to insult me please just man up and do it, dude. "I wouldn't impute that on anyone." Oh, how very fucking droll of you. Were you feeling proud when you hit submit?

No, I am still assuming your experience with the L85 is not throughout enough to judge it's actual power-level. You are free to convince me it is. I might then think you are an ignorant idiot. Not that I would actually call you one, for the sake of keeping this discussion as objective as it can (and should) be. I truly believe the L85 thermal mechanic is broken and should be removed. I do not want to break into a senseless flame-war on this topic.

[mayfaire 2]

Have you guys played the ArmA 2 campaign, and do you see the HUMVEES, Black Hawks, UH-1s and so on in the game?

There was a military intervention through coalition forces, that's why there are american/european weapons in Chernarus.

[Cysquatch 5]

Have you guys played the ArmA 2 campaign, and do you see the HUMVEES, Black Hawks, UH-1s and so on in the game?

There was a military intervention through coalition forces, that's why there are american/european weapons in Chernarus.

But does that really need to be the case in DayZ? I don't really see evidence of a military occupation when I play this game. What I see are out of place weapons and vehicles inside the humble military installations of a country not yet in its prime.

However, I do understand that this may be a an insurmountable limitation for the mod because of ARMA 2. We may need to wait for the standalone game for a more authentic setting which is fine. At this point, I think all suggestions should be directed at the stand alone game anyway as that is what really matters for the future.

Edited August 13, 2012 by Cysquatch

[bigAPE 20]

My 2 cents on this one as a long time user of the L85A2 AWS as a backup to an M4-SD/AS-50 combo.

Having the thermal scope mounted on ANY weapon is too much of an advantage in DayZ. It should be a seperate observation scope that can be used instead of Binocuars or the Vector Rangefinder. Then the player is forced to either team up with a sniper and play the intended role of sniper support/spotter OR switch to a primary weapon to fire.

Also worth noting that the AWS is a FICTIONAL sight system that incorporates two very different sight systems that currently cant be mounted together on a L85A2 and certainly dont appear in any hybrid model. Frankly if they have this in the game they may as well have jet packs and hover boards.

In response to the question of effective range of the thermal scope. The model depicted in the game as part of this made up "AWS" is the Qioptic VIPIR-2 which has an effective range of 1200m. The more powerful sniper system variant the SVIPIR-2+ is effective upto 1500m.

Incidentally, we are seeing 4-5 players a day join our servers with "found" AS-50 TWS. Getting to become a joke and something we plan on policing much more seriously in the coming days/weeks.

[luc1kjke 0]

My 5 cents: L85 is OP and due to duplication and cheaters(don't call them hackers plz) weapon removal is an only solution for mod. If there wasn't such a problems weapon spawn rate could be just changed to extremely rare. Just making this rifle disappear from everyone inventory and stop spawning in next patch would be great. In some servers is already implemented autoslaying/kicking for using not ingame weapons so staying on such servers will completely protects player from dying from a overpowered weapon user.

L85 AWS is just ruins the game atmosphere(along with a AS50 and M107).

[Doctor Invictus 0]

Solution: make the thermal feature require batteries.

You're welcomed

[reuben5150 83]

"only good for spotting"

Really? You must be useless or lying, get to know the weapons before posting misinformation about them, and yes, it should be removed.