Duping: 3/4 of High Level Gear is Duplicated

[blueface 13]

I highly doubt that the spawn rate is .86%. I've found two AS50s, and two M107s. On the other hand, I've seen several orders of magnitude more residential spawns than heli spawns, and have never seen a mt dew can. The sample size isn't conclusive, but I really don't think these guns are as rare as the wiki says.

I agree that there are too many high end weapons, but it's not just duping that's causing it.

You also have to take into account the lack of a weapon sink. Most high end weapons never leave circulation. If you find an AS50 on a corpse, you're VERY unlikely to leave it alone (unless you already have one)

In order to stop weapon inflation, Rocket would have to fix all the duping bugs, and add a mechanic that removes weapons from the system. There are several options for that:

1) Make bodies unlootable, or make weapons on bodies unlootable. This means everyone who dies takes a couple weapons with them. This would discourage team play, since your friends couldn't grab your gear after the firefight.

2) Make weapons degrade over time. After a certain number of shots, the weapon becomes inoperable. This would be highly annoying, but it would work.

3) Remove all storage from the game. Nobody can hoard weapons if they can't store them anywhere, can they? This removes an important mechanic from the game, though.

I think they should add making bases. And building more barricades etc. So for example you could build a stronghold in one of the towns.

[denkart 198]

my friend said too that it ruins the game, but we all do it anyways. because when he dies. it isnt THAT bad.

without duplicating this game would suck shit and i would start hacking, or quit :)

You should just quit.

[suito 17]

dont read the full thread, but i found 2 as50 in a round, easyst way, baracks .. nightvision and server jumping night servers .. hive 4tw -.-

[rev0 0]

Wipe the hive of everyone's inventory?

No, I abhor this idea. I know it may change things, but for the worse.

I would bet the database is gonna be wiped anyway once the dupe bug is fixed and scripting can reliably be prevented/detected/punished. You know this is still an Alpha and it would be stupid to carry all the impacts from exploits and hacks to beta stage or release version... Edited August 6, 2012 by rev0

[boatie 34]

Play on a non-hive server. Problem solved.

I don't think anything can be done about the hacking, server hopping, alt-f4ers, and duping until the standalone.

Edited August 6, 2012 by boatie

[Udak 104]

If it was simple item inflation or finding, we should be seeing at least somewhat comparable numbers of m107s...instead, there's hundreds of AS50s on dudes around electro and cherno and I've never even seen an m107.

[RECphantom 31]

Where someone runs around has nothing to do with where they found their gun. Cherno and elektro are the most trafficked areas, of course someone with a new shiny sniper rifle would want to go there to do their kill shots.

[That1neguy 5]

Ill stop duping core items when I stop getting airstriked, instantly killed, mass teleported, and thunderdomed by hackers. Its simply impossible to play on a large server with lots of players and not get killed by one of these methods, until the hacking issues is fixed this game won't really be more than what it is now.

[suito 17]

the hacking problem just can solved by BIS, not by the DayZ Team! Understand this -.-

Its this "crapy" arma2 engine who handels everthing on the client side, not server side.

[hawken 22]

If you wipe inventory you would punish legit players.

[KField86 237]

You know, at first, I would of said "Screw you. Inventory wipes? No way. I loves mah stuffz!!! U CANT HAS!!" Now? I say do it. I've got every item in the game basically. Every item I could ever hope to find and loot pretty much. And you know what? It sucks. There is nothing to do besides snipe in the south. Christ sake I can't even goto NWAF and camp out because of the graphical issues.

This duping has to be fixed, and I'll admit now I'm guilty of it. Difference is, I wasn't actually trying to accomplish it. It just happened. THAT'S how bad it's gotten. To the point where shit just dupes without even attempting it, and at that point can you really tell the person not to take advantage of that? No you can't. They weren't trying to glitch, but the game threw them a bone.

Edited August 6, 2012 by KField86

[ganjademon 51]

I will get on my high horse about duping ruining the game once they fix things like Ladders that kill you, doors that kill you, random rocks that kill you, glitches in the ground that kill you annnnnd finally the hackers that kill you and everyone on your server after turning you into a goat........

Fix the game to not destroy all our hours of work on a whim and maybe people will chill on the duping?

If I get killed in a legit fight thats fine, finding the gear is all part of the game and, for the most part, pretty fun but after 20+hours of play, to lose all my awesome stuff to a glitch/bug/hacker for the 10th time gets a bit old.

Also, pretty sure I read that its never going to get fixed, because its a problem with arma, not dayz.

[Barronism 88]

My buddy unintentionally found a way to dupe yesterday. I won't go into details for obvious reasons but lets say, every 20 secs he has the ability to duplicate 1 item on one character. He now has 2, which he can now turn into 4, 20 secs later. Which can then be turned into 8....

Es bad.

[rev0 0]

If you wipe inventory you would punish legit players.

This is an Alpha Version. We are testers not players. Its common practice that things you get for testing will be deleted before a game is released... Just look at all the MMOs with open betas...

On my server i know a lot of tent camps i regularly loot (one of them consists of 25! Tents in a 100 meter radius) and its just obvious when u look at the sheer mass of tents compared to their spawn rate that duping is a big problem. And i didnt even mention the loot in those tents or the mass sandbags/barbedwire/tanktraps that are used to guard those camps yet.

Edited August 6, 2012 by rev0

[Aerendir 12]

I play DayZ for a long time now (5-6-7hrs a day), and I only had like 4 or 5 AS50. I play in a squad, we look for helis when we cleared the northern areas. And we rarely find AS50s. I'm not saying that we never found, but it's not that common.

Now, go to a high populated server, and hunt down script kiddies near Cherno / Elektro and you'll get yourself an AS50 and / or L85A2 within an hour. Go north, find a duping camp, and you'll find every item in the game.

We never took hacked / duped items, and everyone playing this game should do the same thing.

[rev0 0]

My buddy unintentionally found a way to dupe yesterday. I won't go into details for obvious reasons but lets say, every 20 secs he has the ability to duplicate 1 item on one character. He now has 2, which he can now turn into 4, 20 secs later. Which can then be turned into 8....

Es bad.

i know of a method to dupe 24 items in maybe 5-10 secs... Its even worse than you assume.

[Heiduk 265]

That means that you spent 200 hours to find a single gun. Yet everyone and his friend has an AS50.

But that's just one player, there were almost 200,000 players in the last 24 hours. Even if each of them only spent 1 hour in game that's still nearly 1000 new AS 50s.

Duping is a problem, but it isn't the only problem.

In order to stop weapon inflation, Rocket would have to fix all the duping bugs, and add a mechanic that removes weapons from the system. There are several options for that:

1) Make bodies unlootable, or make weapons on bodies unlootable. ...

2) Make weapons degrade over time. ...

3) Remove all storage from the game. ...

4) Cap the number of a given weapon based on player population. For example, if there were 500,000 players during the last week and the cap is 1 % don't spawn any new AS 50s until there are less than 5,000 AS 50s in the Hive.

Of these options, the only one I really dslike is #1.

It´s an Alpha, nobody cares. Also this isn´t what matters right now.

Combat is an important part of the game, perhaps the most important part. The weapons available to them strongly influence how players approach combat and ultimately the rest of the game. I don't see how you can expect to ignore a core component of the game and expect the rest to be unaffected.

[Hiptu 1]

Haven't read the whole thread (don't have time to), but just a few stats to think about:

3856 servers out there, I've been lead to believe there are 3 Heli crashes per server (correct me if I'm wrong), so 11568 Heli crashes. Your 0.87% = ~100 AS50's in total, then most servers restart at least 3 times daily so thats 300 AS50's a day. Now given the fact they don't magically disappear (scripters and bugs excepted), if a player dies with one, chances are another player will pick it up, plus people hoarding them in tents/vehicles.

Not disputing duping (it is a problem) but do wanna point out that not every tent/vehicle that has high end gear in it, is duped.

[ToasterDiagramm 62]

I only found two AS50.

One was a legit helicopter crash loot. The rest was from a dead player.

I found 3 M107.

One legit heli loot. Two player kills. One tent stealing. It really seams common to me now!

Yet I only found one DMR on a player. Two M24s in the whole game. No SVD. Maybe 5 or 6 CZs at max!

I think duping is a huge problem in DayZ. Someone brought up a very good issue: Stuff spawns and spawns and than gets looted by new player. There aren't not a lot of reasons why items will disappear.

[MadHatter (DayZ) 1]

Now wait a second. I will understand when all our stuff gets wiped but an AS50 if NOT hard to find. I can find at least 2-3 a week if I search for helicopter crash sites. The only thing I have not been able to find on my own is a range finder which a hacker is the server gave me when he gave everyone in the server a AS50 and gear. I did keep the range finder because when we got hacked I also lost everthing else that was in my bag inwhich 1 item was my L85. So I guess I'm saying wait until it's patch because not everyone is duping.

[ajbader@umich.edu 7]

Never duped anything worth of value. Once saw a friend try to pick up an M1911, dropped his makarov, DC'ed for some odd reason then come back to realise that he just duped the makarov and the m1911 vanished.

Never duped never will. Also, I highly doubt that 3/4 of high level gear is duped. I have come across a few rare weapons at untouched crash sites these past few days and I can say that they weren't duped. Just because it is a .87% chance of spawning per loot spawn doesn't mean it is rare at all. In fact, add up all the rare items in the game (m107, AS50, m249, Mk 48 Mod 0, L85A2, SVD camo, NVGs, Range finder, Ghillie suit), they probably add up around 7-10% per loot spawn in a crash site. That means if a crash site has 5 loot piles, there can be a 35-50% chance that you might find a rare item or gun at one crash site alone.

That is how our group has been funcioning and it has been working for us well. No duping, no server hopping and that's it. There are still players who play legitimately like us. The game isn't broken yet.

[dantoramandova 19]

An AS50 is a better gun than an M107.

Both have similar spawn rates YET you see an AS50 almost 5x more often than an M107. You might not realize it, but the weapon you got off of that body might have originated from a duper.

[Patient Zer0 39]

Per person who happens to be looting at a crashed heli, it adds up with so many people playing now. Like I said, I found two in the last 24 hours, and I'm beginning to believe many/most might not be duped at all. Considering heli hunting is not hard and all.

Fact: Helis only spawn loot once at server restart. It does not create fresh new piles of sniper rifles for every person who happens to come walking past.

Fact: It wasn't the intent for the servers to be restarted every 4 or 6 hours. The heli crashes are freshly created each time a server starts, and the more-frequent-than-intended restart schedule of most servers (done for other, legitimate reasons) are making the heli loot less rare than maybe it should be.

Fact: It wasn't the intent for "heli hunters" to be able to skip around across 6 different servers in a night. If a server randomly generates 1-5 heli crashes at restart, and a player hops between 6 servers each night looking for them, that gives a player potentially 30 helicopters to loot... which is retarded.

There are a lot of problems in the game.

Duplicating is rampant, and even people who don't intent to dupe end up doing it once in a while (oops, I forgot to save tent after taking the DMR out... now I have two!). Server hopping - and the entire structure of multiple servers - gives players a much much larger loot pool to draw from. That 0.87% chance to find a rifle is a big deal when you're talking about 6 possible spawn points. It's less of an obstacle when you're sweeping through 600.

Until these issues are addressed at the core level, there's nothing anyone can do about it. Does the AS50 really ruin your play experience? Does it matter if every other player out there has one? Each person has to make their own choice how they play this game. Decide to dupe or not dupe. Decide to server hop or not server hop. Decide to live in the woods west of Zelenogorsk or camp on Sniper Hill.

Choices choices choices. Make yours and play the game the way you want.

[Bubba Jones 30]

Both have similar spawn rates YET you see an AS50 almost 5x more often than an M107. You might not realize it, but the weapon you got off of that body might have originated from a duper.

I will definitely agree on this. I raid a LOT of camps and it's actually pretty uncommon of find M107s, but we sure find a lot of AS50s. I'd say we have 10x the number of AS50s compared to M107s stashed away.