Take out .50 cals

[blaaarg 8]

Let me write it down for you : ANTI MATERIAL Rifle.

You're missing the point.

M107 = 12.7x99 ammo = anti material rifle

AS50 = 12.7x99 ammo = anti material rifle

M242 =25x137 = anti light armored vehicles cannon

Still there?

M107 with M107 ammo = 37k dmg

AS50 with AS50 ammo = 174k dmg

M242 = not in dayZ since there is no tank in dayz.

I like data and basic math.

12.7x99 : ~14-20kj of muzzle energy (40-50g bullet / ~900m/s) => M107 & AS50 ammo

25x137 APDS-T : ~121kj of muzzle energy (134g projectile / 1,345m/s) => M242 bushmaster (not the biggest cannon ever, but pierce 16 inch / 40cm of einforced concrete)

(ofc, muzzle energy is only a small part of a projectile damage but it's solid data)

Again : why do we have in dayZ (and OA but Dwarden think it's trivial) a rifle (AS50 with AS50 mag) able to deal damage close to a small tank cannon? There is no logic here. ArmA2 is a military simulation, and there is nothing irl able to justify this amount of damage. 37k is fine since 5.56 deal ~3500dmg and 7.62 nato 8000dmg, 174k dmg is broken as hell.

P.S 2 : oui

So you see the shotgun, which is the deadliest gun in real life, is bumped down to the middle of the list. The sniper rifles, which are the weakest guns in real life, end up at the top of the list. And the pistols, which are among the most deadly weapons in real life, end up being not just weak but nearly useless short of a headshot.

But, you know, Videogames^TM.

Yes & no, shotgun slugs are underpowered in DayZ (it is made to kill wild boar... should one-shot a human) but pellets are... fine and maybe op since each pellet deal 2000dmg and don't loose damage over distance (it's a bug). In OA, each pellet deal *more* damage than a single 9mm bullet (pre-nerf) and the gun shoot 11 pellets... All pellet hit a standing soldier at 30m, half at 50m and 1-3 if your target is 100m away.

Edited August 6, 2012 by OuicheLorraine

[Heiduk 265]

What ever has the longest range and does the most damage is going to be the preferred weapon. You know why? EFFICIENCY Not because its overpowered but because its efficient. Running around Cherno and elektro with a AS50 is not efficient can it be done? Yes but i'll take a FN Fal when I am CQC over a AS50 anyday

I don't have any problem with efficiency. If you're fighting fair you're doing it wrong. What I do have a problem with is that difficulty aiming at short range is pretty much the only downside of .50 cal weapons modeled in DayZ. An AS50 is well over a meter long and weighs nearly 15 kg empty and yet I can haul it around just as easily as a pair of G17s weighing less .7 kg each. Not to mention I can fire it with the barrel unsupported with only a slight decrease in stability. If you want to use an AS50 for its killing efficiency great, but just getting into position should take significant effort.

Modeling fatigue and the other negative aspects of these guns would be great, but until then I would much rather they be removed as they are by far the most unrealistic in terms of handling and logistics.

[tachifox@live.co.uk 3]

[...]

This gear in a zombie apocalypse? Seem's totally legit.

Sorry, but you're not going to find this shit in an apocalyptic wasteland.

"Apocalyptic wasteland" makes it sound like this is Fallout, while it's not. It's quite plausible that there is military-equipment around, actually.

All those dead soldiers and broken down military-vehicles... Those were army-men fighting the zombies in the initial hours of the apocalypse is my thought. I doubt they had Lee Enfields to kill said zombies.

[lordworgull@arcor.de 1]

Pls dont remove the Huge guns. They are really really cool. They kill with one shot ( AS50 - M107 ).

Why is that good ?

Because most ppl log off when they are hit. Then they move onto an other server and move into your back.

Then they log back onto your server and kill you.

This will not happen if you kill with one shot.

In my opinion there is only one thing to do.

Remove the Zombies and make this DeathMatch game much more intense!

[edit]

uhhh uhhh uhhh !! almost forgot something.

Is it possible to spawn all ppl near cherno and get some rifle spawns all over the city ? thx.

Edited August 6, 2012 by Shypa

[Dramatic Exit 62]

How strong can the average survivor potentially be?

One of these rifles weighs like 30 lbs, add to this the already heavy coyote bag full of food cans with an assault rifle in it.

Then put an axe, a tool box, binoculars, a rangefinder and a GPS on his belt.

Don't forget to put a chopper main rotor assembly, a car wheel and a full Jerry Can in his pockets...

And the guy can still run a mile in 4 minutes. :huh:

Correction...

Someone suffering the effects of bloodloss, starvation, dehydration AND the flu, can run a four minute mile while carrying all that gear.

Edited August 6, 2012 by Dramatic Exit

[aurien 8]

You're trying way too hard to look good, and no I didn't get sniped because AFTER I made the OP I uploaded a picture of my current inventory, so GG. I'm sorry that I feel like giving my feedback and suggestions to rocket, and the forums to discuss. If you don't agree with what I'm saying, tell me in a reasonable fashion, not like a prepubescent 12 year old 4chan douche.

Well with your great 2yr old stomping of the feet "no fucking .50 cal in my fucking zombie apocalypse fucking game" with no real thought behind why they shouldn't be there other than you say they shouldn't there's not much to discuss beyond you being a moron. And what confirms that your pictures are your current inventory? Oh that's right nothing, so try again. Maybe if you'd like to be taken seriously you should try putting real thought into your posts. Instead of just cussing about how something shouldn't be in the game, because you say so. Is that as far as your little neanderthal brain went "this shit shouldn't be here" end of thought process?

[bazbake 456]

In order to do more damage, you need to transfer more energy into the internal organs of a target, as well as hit vital structures.

Sure, bigger bullets transfer energy more effectively, but higher velocities also work, as does do tumbling and fragmenting bullets.

5% of the energy from a .50 caliber gun would affect the internal organs of a target due to conservation of mass. The .50 caliber bullet would expend most of its energy traveling through the target and maybe dump it into a few walls or the ground once gravity overcame its flight path.

The best example I can think of is the tablecloth pulling example. Imagine a bullet is a tablecloth and your organs are the a stack of champagne glasses and the table around it. The slower you pull that table cloth, the more you disturb those glasses. The faster you pull that tablecloth, the less you disturb those glasses.

Faster bullets go longer distances and have deeper penetration. But they make smaller holes and transfer less energy to the surrounding tissue.

Lets compare the 9mm bullet to the 7.62 NATO bullet.

People die from blood loss, not invisible shockwaves exploding their heads. The only way the speed and energy of a bullet matters is if the bullet can't make a hole. But if two bullets pass through a body, the bigger bullet kills, the smaller bullet wounds. As for the rest of it: doesn't matter; physics!

Okay, maybe if a Cajun mutant with kleptomania throws the bullet and then all of the energy in the bullet explodes on impact. Then maybe the energy of the bullet means more damage to the target. Otherwise once that bullet goes in it's size.

Slugs are similar to pistol rounds in that they're low velocity, but high profile. They're very effective against human targets because they have a high likelyhood of breaking up as they enter the target.

Slugs don't do much fragmenting. They do more hole making.

Unfortunately, they're not only low velocity, but also rapidly lose velocity.

Which makes them very poor sniping weapons but very excellent at killing things.

Going back to the high powered rifle, once again the .50BMG round has around 50% more mass than the slug

Actually, it only has 10% more mass than the slug.

But...DM;P!

and is traveling about twice as fast.

DM;P!

The slug will tear up your insides, but the .50BMG will blow them right out your back.

No it won't. It'll leave a hole the size of the bullet and then go through the wall behind it.

So...DM;P!

Not to mention, it doesn't lose it's velocity NEARLY as fast as the slug. It's effective up to a mile, where the slug is only effective inside a couple hundred meters.

This is quite true. And that's why .50 caliber weapons are used as anti-material rifles. Because they are powerful enough to put holes in cars and have the stopping power of a .45 caliber pistol.

...

That's it.

The only other point I want to make is that barrel length actually does have an effect on lethality. The longer the barrel is, the more time the expanding gas has to push on the bullet. Basically, longer barrels mean higher velocity bullets. There is a limit, where the force of the gas is less than the friction of the barrel, but that limit is more than twice the length of a normal rifle.

It's not a massive difference in rifles, since modern powders are designed to burn very quickly, but it's there. That's one of the reasons the .50 caliber rifles have stupidly long barrels.

But I have conveniently explained how bullets work, so now you know that longer barrels don't make bullets cause more trauma.

[bazbake 456]

In order to do more damage, you need to transfer more energy into the internal organs of a target, as well as hit vital structures.

Sure, bigger bullets transfer energy more effectively, but higher velocities also work, as does do tumbling and fragmenting bullets.

5% of the energy from a .50 caliber gun would affect the internal organs of a target due to conservation of mass. The .50 caliber bullet would expend most of its energy traveling through the target and maybe dump it into a few walls or the ground once gravity overcame its flight path.

The best example I can think of is the tablecloth pulling example. Imagine a bullet is a tablecloth and your organs are the a stack of champagne glasses and the table around it. The slower you pull that table cloth, the more you disturb those glasses. The faster you pull that tablecloth, the less you disturb those glasses.

Faster bullets go longer distances and have deeper penetration. But they make smaller holes and transfer less energy to the surrounding tissue.

Lets compare the 9mm bullet to the 7.62 NATO bullet.

People die from blood loss, not invisible shockwaves exploding their heads. The only way the speed and energy of a bullet matters is if the bullet can't make a hole. But if two bullets pass through a body, the bigger bullet kills, the smaller bullet wounds. As for the rest of it: doesn't matter; physics!

Okay, maybe if a Cajun mutant with kleptomania throws the bullet and then all of the energy in the bullet explodes on impact. Then maybe the energy of the bullet means more damage to the target. Otherwise once that bullet goes in it's size.

Slugs are similar to pistol rounds in that they're low velocity, but high profile. They're very effective against human targets because they have a high likelyhood of breaking up as they enter the target.

Slugs don't do much fragmenting. They do more hole making.

Unfortunately, they're not only low velocity, but also rapidly lose velocity.

Which makes them very poor sniping weapons but very excellent at killing things.

Going back to the high powered rifle, once again the .50BMG round has around 50% more mass than the slug

Actually, it only has 10% more mass than the slug.

But...DM;P!

and is traveling about twice as fast.

DM;P!

The slug will tear up your insides, but the .50BMG will blow them right out your back.

No it won't. It'll leave a hole the size of the bullet and then go through the wall behind it.

So...DM;P!

Not to mention, it doesn't lose it's velocity NEARLY as fast as the slug. It's effective up to a mile, where the slug is only effective inside a couple hundred meters.

This is quite true. And that's why .50 caliber weapons are used as anti-material rifles. Because they are powerful enough to put holes in cars and have the stopping power of a .45 caliber pistol.

...

That's it.

The only other point I want to make is that barrel length actually does have an effect on lethality. The longer the barrel is, the more time the expanding gas has to push on the bullet. Basically, longer barrels mean higher velocity bullets. There is a limit, where the force of the gas is less than the friction of the barrel, but that limit is more than twice the length of a normal rifle.

It's not a massive difference in rifles, since modern powders are designed to burn very quickly, but it's there. That's one of the reasons the .50 caliber rifles have stupidly long barrels.

But I have conveniently explained how bullets work, so now you know that longer barrels don't make bullets cause more trauma.

[Matalgirrafe 65]

Chernarus. Stands for Black Russia. AND RUSSIANS DON'T LIKE PUSSY NATO ROUNDS. They like firing lead the size of thumbs at people. And cars. And armour. And armoured armour. So, yes, you would find them in Russian Military bases. No they don't spawn in the first building you find. Mostly in High Value Military buildings. Think North West Airfield?

So Russians have the need to horde British and American sniper rifles in their barracks? Okay.

[bazbake 456]

The most important factor in damage is not velocity but energy. The more ft/lbs delivered to the target, the more trauma it will cause. Also, bullet ballistics and dynamics also play a huge part. For example, the 5.45 AK74 round is smaller than a 5.56 .223 caliber nato, yet it is much more devastating. Why? Because the 5.56 was designed to be very fast and very flat shooting. A quick pencil eraser hole in, and out. The 5.45? It's nicknamed the poison dart because when it hits you, the bullet tumbles more than once inside the body cavity, creating a great amount of trauma and in most cases creating a noticeably bigger exit wound or sometimes not even escaping the cavity at all because of the multiple tumbles. Known fact: Most soldiers who are hit with 5.45mm rounds do not survive. Keyword: Most. Thus it was nicknamed the poison dart. Bigger does not always mean better in 100% of cases. Energy delivered to the target is the most important factor, as said.

Not really.

File that under an urban legend. Now, in theory, the exaggerated tumbling should make a big wound, but it's not really any worse than a 5.56 mm. The tumbling only makes a temporary cavity that quickly seals over because muscle is elastic. To do real damage fast you need permanent cavitation, like that caused by a big fat bullet from a 9mm or a .50 caliber. Like I said.

Rifles don't deliver energy to their target. They deliver energy through their target. This is a common misunderstanding and the real reason why this discussion isn't going anywhere. Deforming soft-tipped/hollow-tipped high-caliber rounds cause the most trauma to soft targets. Not rifles. The rest is just misguided gun porn and flawed numbers geekery.

Modern assault rifles are great because they're accurate with high firepower. But a 5.56 or a 5.45 is pretty much just a .22 that shoots a lot of bullets a lot farther and straighter.

Edited August 7, 2012 by BazBake

[bazbake 456]

The most important factor in damage is not velocity but energy. The more ft/lbs delivered to the target, the more trauma it will cause. Also, bullet ballistics and dynamics also play a huge part. For example, the 5.45 AK74 round is smaller than a 5.56 .223 caliber nato, yet it is much more devastating. Why? Because the 5.56 was designed to be very fast and very flat shooting. A quick pencil eraser hole in, and out. The 5.45? It's nicknamed the poison dart because when it hits you, the bullet tumbles more than once inside the body cavity, creating a great amount of trauma and in most cases creating a noticeably bigger exit wound or sometimes not even escaping the cavity at all because of the multiple tumbles. Known fact: Most soldiers who are hit with 5.45mm rounds do not survive. Keyword: Most. Thus it was nicknamed the poison dart. Bigger does not always mean better in 100% of cases. Energy delivered to the target is the most important factor, as said.

Not really.

File that under an urban legend. Now, in theory, the exaggerated tumbling should make a big wound, but it's not really any worse than a 5.56 mm. The tumbling only makes a temporary cavity that quickly seals over because muscle is elastic. To do real damage fast you need permanent cavitation, like that caused by a big fat bullet from a 9mm or a .50 caliber. Like I said.

Rifles don't deliver energy to their target. They deliver energy through their target. This is a common misunderstanding and the real reason why this discussion isn't going anywhere. Deforming soft-tipped/hollow-tipped high-caliber rounds cause the most trauma to soft targets. Not rifles.

Modern assault rifles are great because they're accurate with high firepower. But a 5.56 or a 5.45 is pretty much just a .22 that shoots a lot of bullets a lot farther and straighter.

[ixtilion 39]

Pls dont remove the Huge guns. They are really really cool. They kill with one shot ( AS50 - M107 ).

Why is that good ?

Because most ppl log off when they are hit. Then they move onto an other server and move into your back.

Then they log back onto your server and kill you.

This will not happen if you kill with one shot.

In my opinion there is only one thing to do.

Remove the Zombies and make this DeathMatch game much more intense!

[edit]

uhhh uhhh uhhh !! almost forgot something.

Is it possible to spawn all ppl near cherno and get some rifle spawns all over the city ? thx.

I don't know if you are trolling or just stupid.

This isn't call of duty team deathmatch, just go play COD like people of your age ffs.

Last thing we need is 10 year old kids camping on the hills with their l33t duped gear one shotting everyone on sight.

It isnt fun to get one shot in this kind of games, it is frustrating to say the less, and the amount of AS50 that there are around and how people abuse them to one shot players just makes me sick

Edited August 7, 2012 by ixtilion

[Blindingsun 233]

http://youtu.be/9FKW84Zn-Jc

Don't take out 50cal AMW's. look what NATO rounds do to fresh spawners =D

[StoDaDio 11]

Considering nobody has lived in or during a Zombie apocalypse, how can one say what would or wouldn't be found in one?

[Blindingsun 233]

Considering nobody has lived in or during a Zombie apocalypse, how can one say what would or wouldn't be found in one?

I live close enough to a couple of military bases to know I'd be able to grab at least a few L96's and some L85a2's.

[Heiduk 265]

Considering nobody has lived in or during a Zombie apocalypse, how can one say what would or wouldn't be found in one?

Umm, I'm pretty sure you would find pretty much what you can find today. Except for the zombies, you would probably find more zombies. Unless the zombies were made by aliens, in which case you could probably find awesome laser guns too.