Please, DONT add a bandit-indicator in this patch

[fish911503 136]

Not magic in a programming point of view but for the player who wants immersion that's truly magic. You get what I am saying. I get the feeling that you're just trying to troll me. Successfully at that.

No no no....not trying to troll you. Trying to communicate that I THINK....what Rocket is trying to do is implement a mechanic into the game so that our actions....the "way" which we choose to play has consequences. So our actions have meaning. The game IMO will be much more immersive, much more realistic if killing someone actually means something.

To split hairs about the fact that when a certain condition is met a scarf might as you say "magically" appear on your neck. I mean there are limitations you know. When I switch from axe to my pistol my axe "magically" appears on my belt and my pistol pops into my hand. When I build a fire the fire ring "magically" appears on the ground. I could give 50 more examples I'm sure but you get the point. To claim that the magical appearance of a game object based on a condition somehow makes a mechanic "bad" is misguided. What make a morality mechanic great or shitty (IMO) is what's going on behind the curtain.

The immersion breaking, unrealistic or inauthentic argument is bogus I feel because having weight behind our decisions is much more authentic. Murdering someone is not a thing to be taken lightly. It will have an effect on MOST people.

Unfortunately video games are limited and the"meaning" of our moral decisions have to be represented with silly things like scars or hats or whatever. But to toss out something as compelling and authentic as having our moral choices have repercussions in the world is, I think, a mistake.

Edited August 6, 2012 by playZ

[tsandrey 379]

What's wrong with Bandit indicators? The only bad thing I see is that, people that kill in self-defense will get it

[JulieMeyers 78]

What's wrong with Bandit indicators? The only bad thing I see is that, people that kill in self-defense will get it

Nothing wrong. I just want a more realistic manner of implementing it. Right now it seems like you'll suddenly get a "mask" when youve killed/helped a certain amount of people. This removes some of the immersion from the game and makes it feel less authentic.

If changes like these go through then who knows ... we might get kill-bonuses later on. An M16 appears in your inventory when you kill 10 people perhaps?

Edited August 6, 2012 by JulieMeyers

[Petri (DayZ) 14]

Dont really know how bandit indication works, but...

I dont wish for bandit indication for 2 reasons:

1. Inability to trust anyone makes the psychological thrill a great experience in DayZ.

2. You might rob or kill people out of desperation, I dont think that should make you a bandit. (Assuming you get marked as bandit for couple of kills)

[JulieMeyers 78]

No no no....not trying to troll you. Trying to communicate that I THINK....what Rocket is trying to do is implement a mechanic into the game so that our actions....the "way" which we choose to play has consequences. So our actions have meaning. The game IMO will be much more immersive, much more realistic if killing someone actually means something.

See, I am sure you are right about this. I simply want a better way of implementing it. Like say you kill four people and you gain a red hat all of a sudden. It's stuff like that I dont like. It's like I am getting an achievement and it doesnt fit into the game at all.

So I want the same thing as you but another way of doing it. Maybe the dev-team just want to see how indicators work in general and this is the quick way to do it, I have no idea. All I know is what I dont want and that's what I am expressing here.

[Dalegor Dobrutro 22]

Its why I all time repeat, bandit mark should be inherited after dead. So if you play as bad-ass you will always spawn as bandit outfit and this is the only consequence. What this change to bad players? Nothing. And what this change to survivors? With this dude you dont talk - so shoot. Balance is still equal, if bandits shoot at sight. So why I must be in worse position. Such way they have equal chances. If you like example from reality, this mean dude behave and look suspicious. Dont say that you dont know in reality from what man you get punch in face? People feel natural afraid just seeing someone, they "know" that something bad may happen near him.

Edited August 6, 2012 by Dalegor Dobrutro

[fish911503 136]

I'm suprised by the people who complain about the "COD mentality" and then demand we change things in a direction that is clearly more video gamey. We're just moving from free for all Deathmatch to Team Deathmatch. I don't see a difference between the player who logs in just to run around murdering other players, and the player who opens fire on every single person in a bandit skin. You only want the identifier back so you can play exactly the same way they do, open fire on anyone whom you perceive to be hostile.

Not me...you're assuming I play the game as if it's a death match. I don't.

There are plenty of other things that could be changed that would lower the amount of players killing each other,

So lets hear them :)

unfortunately the very same people who complain about pking are the ones who already think weapons are too rare or the mod is too difficult.

Again not me. I think weapons are too abundant. Look at my avatar :)

They'd prefer we just remove the human drama

Way off.....having our actions and choices have meaning or consequence in the game world ADDS human drama. When it means nothing to murder another player....THAT is a lack of human drama. You got that one mixed up buddy

[fish911503 136]

See, I am sure you are right about this. I simply want a better way of implementing it. Like say you kill four people and you gain a red hat all of a sudden. It's stuff like that I dont like. It's like I am getting an achievement and it doesnt fit into the game at all.

So I want the same thing as you but another way of doing it. Maybe the dev-team just want to see how indicators work in general and this is the quick way to do it, I have no idea. All I know is what I dont want and that's what I am expressing here.

Fair enough....well short of a punishment/reward system what else could be done? Could you imagine the raging that would result from a punishment/reward system.

Maybe a "loneliness" mechanic? What if when your humanity gets below a certain level a loneliness meter appears which you need to keep full just like drinking and eating.

In the future having a "friends" or "clan" system integrated into the game could be used to prevent them from refilling their loneliness by chillin with their murderous buddies. BTW the same system could be used to prevent players from building up their humanity by bandaging their clan mates.

Edited August 6, 2012 by playZ

[JulieMeyers 78]

Fair enough....well short of a punishment/reward system what else could be done? Could you imagine the raging that would result from a punishment/reward system.

Maybe a "loneliness" mechanic? What if when your humanity gets below a certain level a loneliness meter appears which you need to keep full just like drinking and eating.

In the future having a "friends" or "clan" system integrated into the game could be used to prevent them from refilling their loneliness by chillin with their murderous buddies. BTW the same system could be used to prevent players from building up their humanity by bandaging their clan mates.

Aside from the bandit-indicator I think that weapon-holstering and simply more stuff to do will keep players from killing eachother as often.

[hoorah (DayZ) 36]

What I would like to see is making the direct coms work further out.

I like the voice chat in the game, and I can usually get a feel for the other person just by listening to their voice. If someone sounds like they have decent intentions on the mic, I'll usually give them a chance and not kill them. So far, I've only done this with unarmed people, so that doesn't say much. If they sound like they're 14 on the mic - F that. The 14 YOs are fcking sociopaths. In my experience, those are the ones that are most likely to call friendly then shoot you when they can better line up the shot.

That said, I'd like to see the direct coms work further out because using the mic gives away your position too easily. If I get on the mic and talk to a survivor, he knows I'm VERY close (and therefore, can probably see him), and usually just logs out. I'd like to think that with longer range coms, I can chat with people in the city and get an idea if I want to team up with anyone without giving away my position. Maybe it would work out to be a terrible idea, who knows? I'd still like to give it a try though.

[xximrtwoixx 104]

There is already a bandit uniform,

Military Weapons,

Giant Back Pack

NVGs

Friends

Vehicles

If you see players with the above they will kill you, them having a hood on doesn't make a difference.

Everyone will become a bandit because everyone needs to defend themselves, unless you have a designated killer in your group.

Edited August 6, 2012 by xXI Mr Two IXx

[jetao2008@hotmail.com 175]

I want my bandit scarf!

[zombiejun 13]

if you're a bandit, you should be able to see it somehow from afar, as of now, everyone is shooting everyone.

[wolfstriked 143]

Would love for Rocket to kinda include us players on choices they make.One is how the bandit will look and also the heroes.Personally I do not like the German turbin head wrap and would rather see something done like the terrorist mask from Counter Strike(already in A2).

Hero skin

[Mister Motivational 24]

There is already a large downside to the kill on sight mentality, the more it spreads the more likely each of us are to be shot. Adding a function which points out who is a threat is a significant game breaker.

[chalky (DayZ) 5]

I like the feeling of being hunted by other players. Some people do it because they're assholes, some people do it because they are scared of me, some people do it to survive. That's pretty close to authentic to me. Don't change anything. The zombies are an outside threat, while other people are a huge threat. Besides, at night you couldn't pick out the differences anyway.

[bazbake 456]

There is already a large downside to the kill on sight mentality, the more it spreads the more likely each of us are to be shot. Adding a function which points out who is a threat is a significant game breaker.

Nice try, but you're not very convincing at all.

Bandits are KoS. Period. No matter what you do, they want to shoot you first and take your stuff.

Survivors are not KoS. They won't shoot until you shoot.

Considering how powerful guns that aren't shotguns or pistols are in this game, and the high probability of a first-shot kill, these are the possibilities when two players meet [Current Example 1]:

1. Bandit finds Bandit = 50/50 chance of being shot or shooting first.
   
2. Bandit meets Survivor = Bandit will shoot while survivor hesitates.
   
3. Survivor finds Survivor = Survivors won't shoot. Survivors lose nothing. Survivors gain nothing.
   

So in 75% of all encounters involving a particular bandit, he gets to take someone's stuff. In half of all encounters involving a survivor, a survivor gets to live.

Logic says that survivors will eventually give up and become bandits. Not only will their odds of not dying go up by 25%, but their odds of getting someone else's loot will go up to 75%. It's going to happen. The only way this won't happen is with a constant influx of new players who don't know any better and the heavy use of metagaming (using forums, chatrooms, ventrilo, mumble, and bringing your friends along in order to circumvent the limits of the game.)

But don't be fooled. Bandits knows exactly how the system works. The reason they don't want to be identified is not because it will break the game. The reason they don't want to be identified is because the game is already broken in their favor. There is only one situation where a bandit is ever under threat, and that is if they encounter another bandit. Bandits are already statistically more likely to benefit from encounters with other players than survivors are to walk away alive.

Now, what happens if bandits are identified? [Example 2]

1. Bandit finds bandit = 50/50 chance of being shot or shooting first.
   
2. Bandit meets survivor = 50/50 chance of being shot or shooting first.
   
3. Survivor finds survivor = Survivors won't shoot.
   

If bandits are identified, then survivors have a 75% chance of surviving encounters with other players and a 25% chance of getting someone's loot. Bandits, on the other hand, get a 50% chance of surviving encounters with other players and a 50% chance of getting someone's loot.

The idea of this breaking the game is nonsense. It's actually the only way the game can function unless the playerbase turns fully bandit. Now, if everyone is a bandit [Example 3]...

1. Bandit finds bandit = 50/50 chance of being shot or shooting first. 50/50 chance of getting loot.
   

This is the game some of them want to play. But here's the thing. For bandits interested in PvP combat, Example 2 and 3 are the exact same game. For bandits actually wanting to fight in PvP, having bandits identified on sight would be no different for them. It's the bandits that don't want a straight-up fight that are affected by this. They are afraid that a survivor will sneak up on them and kill them before they have a chance to respond. They're terrified that survivors will treat them the same way they treat everyone else. And to them, that breaks the game.

Edited August 6, 2012 by BazBake

[teapot156 79]

I support bringing it back. Everyone knows things where better with the bandit skin around. On top of that the anti-bandit counter snipers have some jerks to shoot at.

[steeve21 6]

DayZ tries to be "authentic" but it can't simply because it's a video game. I kill people for fun, target practice, etc. Why? Again, because it's fun. That's not "authentic", I don't think many people would kill each other for fun in an zombie/infected apocalypse. That's why I think there has to be some kind of affect on you when you kill other people. IMO

Edited August 6, 2012 by steeve21

[ToasterDiagramm 62]

Rocket spoke of an idea he had a while back - that you would get bloody if you looted a players corpse. That's a much better idea since that doesnt really HAVE to mean that a player is a bandit. Maybe he just found a corpse along the beach and looted it? When another player meets him he might have to explain himself. Why is he bloody like that? Is he bandit?

So... how does that exactly keep that douchebag sniper away from sniping me from 1000m away just for fun? He won't loot me for sure. Don't get me wrong here! I really like this idea, but I also want to see the bandit skin coming.

I started to play just after they removed them. I want to see how it's like if there are hard consequences for killing other people. If killing people means that you can only walk among bandits or among your friends only than you have to deal with that. Oh and... you can always try to build up trust with other bandits as well. Expanding groups and building fractions.

How can I build up trust if KOS is the safest way to go at the moment?

In such an environment, most mass murders would get kinda obvious with clothing and such.

@teapot:

If someone with a hero skin and a sniper rifle comes along, I would probably pass him some mags so he can keep going on to countersnipe.

Edited August 6, 2012 by ToasterDiagramm

[xximrtwoixx 104]

@BazBake

Labeling play styles or actions as bandit or survivor has no bearing and only fits into each persons deffinition. If I shoot you for gear I'm a bandit, If I rob you at gun point I'm a bandit but I don't have my skin changed? What about if I shoot you in the leg and let the Z's Eat you, again no skin change. This is why any counter system is game breaking because it assigns arbitrary counts to dynamic player interactions. Am I a bandit because I shot you after numerous warnings to leave the area or put your gun down?? I wouldn't think so, but this system does.

There should be no "balance" in this game it is canvas and the player base paints the picture. As you so scientifically put it this is a blatant nerf to "even" out encounter chances or improve a play styles viability. If survivors want to be white hat great, they need to understand that exposure to risk will decrease your life span the same way a bandit who wants to rob someone or go player hunting does. Mommy stops handing out cookies to good boys when they become men, no one rewards you for being moral day to day so why should there be a fake moral reward in DayZ? The righteous path is usually the loneliest for a reason, and because your all babies you'd rather have a Dev come in and assign roles than have your character live the way you think people should/would in this scenario.

To "survive" in any situation you avoid risk and in DayZ that means avoiding other players, it doesn't matter how you think or wish things were, thats how it is and this won't change it. There are already a million ways to find a group to play with you don't need signs painted on people to make you feel safe. (They are lies anyway) But thats what all these cry baby casual players want, and apparently its what they are getting, the system is broke so it doesn't really matter but the fact Rocket is caving to all of you whiners is what really pisses me off.

The whole appeal of this game is that it is not dumbed down, nothing is given to you, and everything is against you. Thats what makes surviving great what would normally be a minor accomplishment in a different game is a huge accomplishment in DayZ and every crybaby suggestion takes another step toward ruining that experiance. Why do you think no other games that feature character persistance also feature perma death, because people can't handle it.

If this goes in I encourage all players that appreciate DayZ for what it is to do the following,

1.Shoot players in the leg and bring the horde to them

2.Shoot and heal your friends so that you never get a bandit skin, then approach other players that are no longer afraid of you and kill them when they least suspect. You know save them first, maybe shoot em in the leg and drag em around etc.

3. Assign a designated murderer to your team so that you can use him as bait and ensure that the rest of you don't change skins.

4. Get the hero skin by abusing blood bags then murder people wearing it

5. Be friendly wearing your bandit skin

In the end everyone will become a bandit, but not because its better, simply because shooting other players can't be avoided.

[Knollte 13]

@BazBake

[...

1.Shoot players in the leg and bring the horde to them

2.Shoot and heal your friends so that you never get a bandit skin, then approach other players that are no longer afraid of you and kill them when they least suspect. You know save them first, maybe shoot em in the leg and drag em around etc.

3. Assign a designated murderer to your team so that you can use him as bait and ensure that the rest of you don't change skins.

4. Get the hero skin by abusing blood bags then murder people wearing it

5. Be friendly wearing your bandit skin

In the end everyone will become a bandit, but not because its better, simply because shooting other players can't be avoided.]

Thats exactly the reason i hope bandit skins work the way they did wich was pretty harsh e.g. staying after death slow regaining

There also should be a limit to the amount of blood packs you can play per day or something like that.

If it is codable there should be a loss of humanity for wounding too prefereable shooting someone should instantly turn you into a bandit for say a minute without a visible sign, to many kills should then add the bandit scarf or mask or whatever.

shooting in the legs or raising the horde sound already alot more interesting and fun to me than the mindless sniping or run and gun we have now,

Edited August 6, 2012 by Knollte

[xximrtwoixx 104]

I'm sure you'll cry about it eventually...

Because "morality" or "humanity" or whatever persists everyone becomes a bandit, I don't understand why people don't get this. A counter doesn't work its why it was taken out before.

Make people bandits instantly for doing damage... why not just remove pvp? Or do you just want TDM not DM....

Also I suggest running people over in vehicles

ghost riding vehicles off of cliffs/mountain sides

Get the hero skin and troll survivors by shooting your gun at them until they kill you, turn them into bandits...

Make sure you have a survivor beard to lure others into traps

Edited August 6, 2012 by xXI Mr Two IXx

[LastShenanigan 8]

Way off.....having our actions and choices have meaning or consequence in the game world ADDS human drama. When it means nothing to murder another player....THAT is a lack of human drama. You got that one mixed up buddy

I'm assuming people want a bandit skin added so you can treat players who are equipped with it differently from those without. As a matter of fact thats the reason everyone argues in favor for one, so they can treat those people cautiously. I've made plenty of suggestions in other threads on how we can improve mechanics, feel free to read them. As I'm not the one suggesting we change, I don't feel required to post more solutions. I don't have a problem not knowing another players intentions. You're confusing our actions having real logical consequences, and having a star or sad face sticker stuck one us. If everyone actually played Dayz as if every life was their last they may start to become more catious of strangers. In reality you don't know this person and would you really yell "are you friendly" and take their word for it? People ask that we change these things to make the game easier to play claiming that it's not realistic when they run at a complete stranger while holding a gun in their hand and get murdered. Human drama comes from trying to work out who is and who is not a threat in an apocalypse, making a single friend in a world of potential enemies. Unfortunately folks seem to want to skip the hard part and jump straight to having friends so they don't have to think for themselves. At least we can agree weapons are too common, and I've seen and also like your avatar.

[darthbro303 7]

This isnt going to change anything just add a skin when your a bandit personally i thought the bandit skin was awesome looking.