Please, DONT add a bandit-indicator in this patch

[JulieMeyers 78]

What are you talking about?

The bandit skin is to alleviate the trust issues that this community has developed. Griefers are an unrelated issue.

Fixing the artifacting won't stop griefers either, so Rocket shouldn't bother?

So the goal is to make everybody trust eachother on the internet, in a game about looting good stuff? Good luck. I made a suggestion to how this could be made in a more immersive manner but people just seem to focus on how good the "magic" model-change is and not about an alternative and more realistic way of doing the very same thing.

[Core (DayZ) 3]

Thank god they're coming back. What was the reason they took them out in the first place?

[Mos1ey 6301]

So the goal is to make everybody trust eachother on the internet, in a game about looting good stuff? Good luck. I made a suggestion to how this could be made in a more immersive manner but people just seem to focus on how good the "magic" model-change is and not about an alternative and more realistic way of doing the very same thing.

Smells like speshul needs. How many times can you miss the point in one thread?

No... The point isn't to make everyone trust each other. That would be stupid and destroy everything that DayZ is. The goal is to give some indication as to whether a player is a bandit/murderer or not...

[JulieMeyers 78]

Smells like speshul needs. How many times can you miss the point in one thread?

No... The point isn't to make everyone trust each other. That would be stupid and destroy everything that DayZ is. The goal is to give some indication as to whether a player is a bandit/murderer or not...

Missing the point? I made a suggestion in the suggestion-forum. This is my thread. YOU are missing the point.

So yes, genious. And why do you need that? Because you'd trust a kid wearing a beautiful hero-scarf more than a kid wearing a hoodie. Right? Sighhhhhh.

[tiaitchsi 26]

I KoS anyone I see.

Hell, I've murdered my fellow friends that I actually were communicating with in Skype due to the lack of coordination and communication we tend to have sometimes.

This will be a pretty neat feature, to be honest.

It's good to see that rocket has been busy during the time he "vanished". :)

[MrMudd 14]

Guys I already said lets turn this game into "Batman vs the Joker in the Zombie Apocalypse". Bandits get the joker costume and high humanity players get the batman costume.

ALso we need pony hats that shoot lazzzuurs out of their eyes. WE should mod this game so it becomes Teamfortress 3.

[Mos1ey 6301]

Missing the point? I made a suggestion in the suggestion-forum. This is my thread. YOU are missing the point.

So yes, genious. And why do you need that? Because you'd trust a kid wearing a beautiful hero-scarf more than a kid wearing a hoodie. Right? Sighhhhhh.

I'm missing the point? You don't have a point, you're just rambling incoherently...

Why do I need that? Because it would give me a clue as to a player's intentions. How many times have I explained this now? Currently, I have to treat every single player as if they're hostile. I always remain hidden and don't make contact. With the bandit character model back in the game I'll probably make contact with survivors more often...

You're obviously just mad that every survivor's gonna know you're a bandit and kill you on sight, so you're clutching at straws, hoping that if you put random words togther for long enough a reason why the bandit skin is a bad idea is gonna fall out the sky and land on your screen. Ain't gonna happen unfortunately. Sorry bro, QQ elsewhere.

[dallas 5195]

Back when we had the bandit skin, you'd still get killed by 50% of the survivors you meet.

Back when we had the bandit skin, you'd still have to watch your humanity, even in selfdefense.

Back when we had the bandit skin, KOS was not the primary means of social interaction between players.

I thought the psychological aspect of the bandit skins was quite complex. I even liked that friendly survivors received a humanity reduction for killing other survivors, even in selfdefense. The friendly survivor, who involuntarily turned bandit, would have to trake precautions to avoid conflict, if he wanted to return to the humane side. Other friendly survivors, who constantly placed themselves in situations, where they'd ended up taking a life, would turn bandit, because their reckless actions dictated it.

Some bandits took pride in their skins, other bandits, who played to inflitrate survivors, would have to take breaks between their killings to regain enough humanity to blend in with the survivors again.

What I liked the most was that any kill, justified or not, hurt your humanity. Killing people even in selfdefense, affects human beings.

Edited August 5, 2012 by Dallas

[JulieMeyers 78]

You're obviously just mad that every survivor's gonna know you're a bandit and kill you on sight, so you're clutching at straws, hoping that if you put random words togther for long enough a reason why the bandit skin is a bad idea is gonna fall out the sky and land on your screen. Ain't gonna happen unfortunately. Sorry bro, QQ elsewhere.

You're an obvious troll. You know that? Read my first post and then come back with some intelligence. Thanks.

I am not a bandit btw. Doesnt matter though, they're a part of the game. Go hug somebody if you want to share love with random strangers.

Edited August 5, 2012 by JulieMeyers

[JulieMeyers 78]

Back when we had the bandit skin, you'd still get killed by 50% of the survivors you meet.

Back when we had the bandit skin, you'd still have to watch your humanity, even in selfdefense.

Back when we had the bandit skin, KOS was not the primary means of social interaction between players.

I thought the psychological aspect of the bandit skins was quite complex. I even liked that friendly survivors received a humanity reduction for killing other survivors, even in selfdefense. The friendly survivor, who involuntarily turned bandit, would have to trake precautions to avoid conflict, if he wanted to return to the humane side. Other friendly survivors, who constantly placed themselves in situations, where they'd ended up taking a life, would turn bandit, because their reckless actions dictated it.

Some bandits took pride in their skins, other bandits, who played to inflitrate survivors, would have to take breaks between their killings to regain enough humanity to blend in with the survivors again.

What I liked the most was that any kill, justified or not, hurt your humanity. Killing people even in selfdefense, affects human beings.

Thanks. This was probably the first good answer about the upside of having indicators. Have my beans.

[ApriL 28]

I just saw Rocket on Machinima where he says they will introduce a bandit-indicator in this next patch.

39:30 in this video:

This is really bad for a number of reasons. Right now, you are scared of other people and you dont really know who to trust. That's good, since you will have to build that trust. Peoples agendas are not visible to you like a TF2-hat. It has a nice psychological impact on you as a player.

The bandit-indicator is moving the gameplay away from the realism-aspect of the game and suddenly you magically get a hat from heaven when you kill somebody. Things like this will ruin the immersion and while some players might think this is "cool" it's moving the game towards not feeling like a real thing anymore.

People tend to say "Duh, realism? ITS A ZOMBIE GAME".

src:http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/597-ai-death-squads-bullet-lethality-and-delayed-disconnect/#entry7140

Rocket spoke of an idea he had a while back - that you would get bloody if you looted a players corpse. That's a much better idea since that doesnt really HAVE to mean that a player is a bandit. Maybe he just found a corpse along the beach and looted it? When another player meets him he might have to explain himself. Why is he bloody like that? Is he bandit?

Stuff like that is the really fun part of the game and it adds to the immersion and builds tension.

Please, please, please dont add any achievement-style cosmetic changes to the game!

Edit: People need to understand that this has nothing to do with "cod kids" or only bandits. This costmetic change applies to everybody and while some people might not think that immersion is an important part of the game, I do.

I am not against the indicator in general. I simply just want a realistic change/addition and not an achievement-style change (item appears from nowhere)

This costmetic change can be made in different and more realistic ways that will not remove anything from the immersion and at the same time the guys that just want the indicator gets their piece of the cake too. Both parties happy.

It's not even final. Anyway if he does add it, then there is every chance he also removes it.

[Carl's Sr. 29]

dayz is free, you know that. yes the website uses the word mod in it, because it is indeed a mod. seems like you fail to grasp the term mutually exclusive. dayz turns arma II into a new game.

no its still arma 2, in the end its still a mod

[Mos1ey 6301]

I've patiently answered each and every one of your retarded questions and now I'm a troll? Sounds more like you've just run out of things to say TBH. Have fun with that.

And one last time because apparently it hasn't sunk through that thick skull yet... It isn't about trusting/befriending/loving every other player. It's about actually being able to take a chance and make contact with survivors instead of just being sure that anyone and everyone will open fire on you without a second thought.

[JulieMeyers 78]

I've patiently answered each and every one of your retarded questions and now I'm a troll? Sounds more like you've just run out of things to say TBH. Have fun with that.

And one last time because apparently it hasn't sunk through that thick skull yet... It isn't about trusting/befriending/loving every other player. It's about actually being able to take a chance and make contact with survivors instead of just being sure that anyone and everyone will open fire on you without a second thought.

I hope we meet in the game, put our differences aside and love eachother like the true internet-gurus that we are. I will have the hero-skin.

[Mos1ey 6301]

Keep your eyes peeled for an AK poking out of a bush. ;)

Edited August 5, 2012 by mZLY

[Who cares? 13]

Sigh. Yet another player who cant see my point. Tell me why you are satisfied with this change when it COULD be done in a more realistic manner? I really dont get it. Once this game does have those magic changes you'll soon get an M9 because you killed 5 zombies. It just pops up there. Immersion? Durr hurr. Who needs that. Its a game, right?

Hello??? Hello??? I do get your point, your problem is I disagree with it and so do others. Your arguement seems to jump about a bit because you don't want these things. I 'did' at one time respectfully understand. But after reading a few more of your replies if ya can't handle it well tough. If you can't be a adult about it well. . . *shrugs*

The one thing I don't like about this mod is it is going to cause alot of 'jaded' players who for some reason seem to be thinking this is the way it's going to be in real life if a apocalypse actually happens. After all just how many out there are rather young players?

My point in the 'italicized' seems to have been completely overlooked. What I was trying to get though to some thick skulls out there that it IS A GAME and if you did this stuff again in real life you better be prepaired to maintain / make / protect everything you need and have that knowledge onhand. After all just how many of you can make your own clothing? Gas for a car? Ha that stuff decays and goes bad rather fast! Do you know how to take apart injectors or how about a simple carburetor? Where are you going to find parts for the items your trying to get working again? What about bread? Have you ever grinded your own flour by hand? Soap? Anyone know how to make it? Water? So after some chemical or powerplant up the river has gone belly up from the lack of maintenance and flooded that stream with crap can you tell me your going to drink it? Do you think that old farm pond is going to sustain you with all of the chemicals farmers spray on their fields and not get sick? Do you know how to doctor yourself? How to make medicines if you get sick? Your going to be extremely lucky if you even survive 1 year alone depending on your health, supplies, where you are, and probably not much more even in a small group. And it's highly likely your going to starve if you try to wall your self up somewhere. So going out there and the willy nilly killing unsick folk for no reason isn't that realistic either nor smart in the long run. And I can completely understand if people in the game started forming hunter groups that went after the bandits.

All of the pure arguement to get rid of the cammo clothing was because some thought it gave incentive for others to kill each other for a nifty outfit. And really if you read some of the other suggestions out there it seems a lot more feel that PKing is a problem and are looking for answers to it. Rather it be take more guns away in this posting or create wholly different spawn areas or going the crafting route. I've been on servers where it's a free for all and it's not that much fun. Hell's bells I can't even count how many times I've came across some hacker who has some huge weapon off of a gunship or plane. Or are spawning their own weapons because their butt hurt over getting raped and can't handle it. And many are out there rage / vengence killing. Or even the server owner / clan is pulling some crap because their hurt over loosing their horde of 10 cars and the like. How realistic is that?

But 'realistic'? By that pure term I then have to ask who do you know dosen't have or know someone who has a bicycle? What about motorbikes? Why are there so many destoryed humvees about? Why aren't there more tractors in the field? Even if 'damaged' wouldn't there be a few different things laying about? Hells bells all of those electronic gadgets need BATTERIES to keep working where in the hell are you going to get some of them? Batteries don't last forever either even if left on a shelf somewhere!

Maybe some of the solutions lie in crafting up stuff or having to maintain your ALL of your gear including yourself. By that I mean patching your worn clothing, do you really think all that sneaking about isn't going to wear a hole in those pants and might make you more likely to getting cut or get some other infection? Even failing to clean that clothing is going to cause some issues! Cleaning that rifle (any automatics laying in the dirt / weather are going to start having issues and will be prone to jam rather fast or may not even fire at all.) yet alone who knows what that prior owner may have had to do with it to keep the zombies away. They might have used it as a club until they got too tired to keep away the horde. Who knows.

Again I have to say since the in game characters don't display mannerisms very well I don't see a problem with a scarf, arm band(s), name tag, or some other identifyer. There is a lot more to mannerisms than just some smirk on someones face, there body language says alot more than you think and so do their reactions to things. After all how in the hell are they going to render sweat, the stink of the unkept, or the sweaty paleness of the sick? What about fear, happyness, sorrow, or even excitement? You might not realize it but you already display these mannerisms in daily life when you see things and they tend to be obvious to those who train themselves to look for them. Another thing is how in the hell can anyone tell who anyone is? By that I mean there are only so many faces in the game and a limited amount of clothing! Not everyone is tall, skinny, strong, or even weak! All of those things SPEAK a lot as to who you are and what you value. And these things do define you no matter how much folks want to bury their head in the sand and claim something else.

Keep in mind I never said nor insisted the killer types wouldn't go away nor did I say anything was a magical fix it all solution. But I tend to think there are quite a few out there looking for solutions and even reasons to actually make a few friends while actually playing the game -vs- just running in and killing anything they come across or finding a group of people out side the game and pulling them into it. Right now there dosen't seem to be much reason to make any friends or raiding groups in game it's just kill on sight.

[Narktor 8]

First: This game will never be TRULY REALISTIC because your Alter Ego simply respawns after Death. Thats one of the most important variables in the world of Chernarus. Because in the real world, when you end a human life, its fucking ended, game over, forever!

And thats why DayZ really can piss one of in terms of Play Interaction. Nobody, not even in a real Zombie apokalypse, would shoot on sight if theyve never met by then. Its fucking Hollywood bullshit infecting your minds that, even a true badass type, would put his life at risk by randomly blowing peoples heads away!

So, DayZ at the moment is a mess in terms of player interaction. You have to approach a player to chat with him, but doing that you might get shot, because theres no way of showing your goodwill to your counterfey!

Be it in the standalone F2P or in this mod, there have to be more options to team up besides the forum. Ingame, you shoot anyone on sight because you have so meager tools to show your goodwill and other players, especially when in small groups or even alone, may be afraid you shoot them.

In DayZ you die almost instantly when hit by a rifle, and thats good. But to make this "social experiment" more interesting, you have to have Options, otherwise theres no experiment. At the moment, i dont really have an option. I see a player, i shoot him, not because i really want it, but because the game makes me shoot him. I have no option to interact with him in a peaceful manner without putting me in a completely suicidal situation, its like waving with a Chemlight at night in front of a horde of brainless psychopaths with maybe 1 or 2 decent people in it. Shooting first is the best option for yourself, in almost any situation. In real life, in such a "grey area" as Chernarus is, you would definitely try to communicate with other people, because putting urself into a fight might potentially cause a disaster on both sides. A human dead cant be brought back. Thats something the world of chernarus lacks, and its highly important to setup a "social experiment". Because we cant do that, we have to compensate this via other mechanics.

[Outypoo 59]

I think they should just bring back the outfits, since you rarely see a guy in a ghillie suit with a bright desert camo headscarf...

[Powell (DayZ) 734]

I want a bandit "indicator" as you say. Also, why the hell NOT? It's alpha, let's try shit. Let's break the game with crap we change.

[hombrecz 832]

Lets atleast try it for few days before we start QQ about it ok?

Stuff will be added and some stuff will be removed, thats the way of alpha.

EDIT:would love to know how this cosmetic change will work with ghillie suit, that covers all your body and even backpack....

Edited August 5, 2012 by Hombre

[magmatrix 38]

My thoughts on this:

Bandit/hero indicators are completely unrealistic and is the wrong solution to the problem at hand. There are some basic types of players:

- survivors (lone wolf or cooperative)

- bandits (who think it's easier to kill and steal than to loot)

- griefers

Griefers gonna grief regardless of their indicators. It's easy to do and they think it's fun. They don't care about immersion, and they will happily use every hack in existance. Spawn cars and run down some freshly spawned survivors for teh lulz, or spawn endless ammo and a sniper rifle and camp cherno.

Replace Battleye (which is a sad excuse for anti-hacking protection) with something that works, and this player category will be decimated.

Bandits will kill/rob when they think it will be profitable.

If cooperation is more useful / vital, then it would stop the lone wolf bandits.

Zombies can be changed to react differently to gunshots far away, gun flash can be more visible, sounds can be improved (they are quite broken now - no occlusion, and so on), ammo more scarce, harder to survive in general, remove non-authentic weapons like AS50, M107 and so on - i mean, come on... HMMMW:s and american sniper rifles + standard NATO ammo all over Chernarus???

And if you disable combat-DC then the risk will be much greater when starting a firefight which will deter some from banditry.

.

There are lots of other stuff that can be done also, and i think it's much better than adding bandit/hero indicators. Such indicators will break immersion. What would be next, hit indicators?

Btw, we already have the heart beat indicator... which i think should be removed. And the kill messages. They make no sense.

[internetTAB (DayZ) 76]

nah

[libertine 351]

No, please DO bring them back!!!! It will encourage grouping, which im too afraid to do with all reports of super-a-holes stabbing someone in the back after saving their lives, etc. Can't wait to pop some caps and feel good about it too. I've been a survivor and had so many chances to take people out, yet just snuck away for role-playing and immersion's sake. Guys in bandit clothing will still be a thread, but they will also be swiss cheese every now and then too.

[lun4tic 8]

Labels wont work, they never do. There simply aren't enough labels, or conditional statements with which to apply them. If I happen across a tent filled with goodies, am I a thief for taking a few? A bandit? What if it's a bandit's tent? What if they're my items I'm stealing back from a bandit? Or my items I'm just happening across that somebody else found after I was eaten alive by zombies? What if I kill my friend by accident? Am I a bandit then? They probably wont care, because I can keep his stuff safe in the meantime. What if somebody comes along and tries to take his stuff? Does shooting them make me a bandit if I'm not interested in their gear?

Contextual clues would be the better alternative. If a player loots a corpse, they become bloody. There's a story behind it and the player is open to make their own assumption, or come to their own conclusion. What other clues can there be for players who just want to snipe other for fun? Ghillie suits are a good start. What about players that enjoy cooperation and helping others? Perhaps some visible piece of equipment? Of course there's always two sides to the same coin, but that's intended.

[BattleBear Custom 18]

I would love to see bandit indicators up!