Why this mod is failing

[Xianyu 820]

So.. your problem isn't really bandits (against whom you either get outplayed or you outplay them, it's that simple), but rather the fact that people assume that everyone is hostile/trying to get their stuff and thus prefer to shoot instead of risking it?

There is no gear in this game that makes you bullet proof. I'm just as pumped up if I'm going against a guy with a lee enfield as against someone with a higher tier weapon and I've never had a problem when I'm the one who has lower tier gear nor does it bother me that they might get a slight advantage from it which I can overcome by playing smarter than them.

So then there are cases where the other guy might be new to the game and I outplay him so hard it makes me feel a bit bad, but then again how could I know it beforehand? How are they supposed to learn the game if not through trial and error? Your post makes you look like you've never had to learn anything the hard way.

You are right about endgame. There is none except PvP. But then again there's no game either, just a testing platform?

If we want to speculate, adding more endgame content to the finished product (which has been already confirmed to be under developement) will deter all byt the most hardcore of griefers away from praying on those who are new to the game. Regardless of that, there will always be a point when a newer player will get stomped on by someone more experienced. That can never be avoided since everyone wants to progress in the game.

Endgame content will also not take away the fact that new spawns will still be fighting over loot at the coast and the same "shoot them before they shoot me" -mentality is sure to stay in the game. All of the choices are made by people. The game is a sandbox.

There are many good examples on this forum of how people have changed their way of playing (I know, I should use the world "testing" at the moment) the mod to counter the problems you are have listed and are enjoying it. Why don't you give it a try as well?

I love that about this game. The tension of meeting another player and not knowing their intentions. It makes the game more alive when you play it than anything else. You simply don't get that experience anywhere else.

But the simple case is, the game has been completely diluted by the deathmatch mentality. There is no more survival. It's all about getting the best gear, and shooting people. There are no more 'chance encounters of friendlies', or if there are, they are so very, very few and far between that they're not noticable. It might as well be Halo, with colour coded clothing. Shoot at the red ones, mate. They're not on your 'team'. It's safer for everyone to assume that the other surivor is a bandit and will betray them, because, 98% of the time, they're right.

I would never want banditry to be removed. But the game is just...completely dull without any element of uncertainty. It's lifeless.

And the people that agree with me. Well, you won't hear from them. They've already moved on.

[jay.pis 32]

thats a damn long ass post complaining about a mod that is still in its early development stage.

The best advice anyone can give for people like you is to just wait further down the development phase for major updates and changes. Honestly I don't understand why people just don't get this simple concept.

[scoobysnacks 32]

Rocket said the bandits were winning because they are far more organised and I completely agree.

Survivors need to get strong, there are ways to make friends in this game, you can be 'safe'.

You sound like a nice guy but do you know how ridiculous you sound?

Why not wait for the actual fucking game before criticising the lack of 'End-Game' and try not take things so seriously on a underdeveloped mod.

[Sinoby 39]

IMO the problem of the game is ability to hop servers. It prevents an ability to create a real community. Right now every one can server hop after backstabbing another player, and killed player will never see him again. There is no such thing as word of mouth here. But bandits themselves are not the problem - the thrill they add to the game is the most important part of DayZ. Without bandits it will be a less polished l4d

[Xianyu 820]

Rocket said the bandits were winning because they are far more organised and I completely agree.

Survivors need to get strong, there are ways to make friends in this game, you can be 'safe'.

You sound like a nice guy but do you know how ridiculous you sound?

Why not wait for the actual fucking game before criticising the lack of 'End-Game' and try not take things so seriously on a underdeveloped mod.

And when the only people playing this new 'finished game' are all bandits and have chased away all semblence of civility...?

This has been in developement long enough for people to point out the crucial flaws.

Half of the problem is the community, half of it is the complete lack of end game content. Get loot. Run away from/shoot zombies. Shoot players. Get more loot. There is nothing else.

The mentality has already skewed at least 90% of the community to the 'shoot on sight, shoot first' mentality. And with no end game goals to strive for...people just shoot other people for fun, further reinforcing the 'shoot first' mentality. The game might not be failing in numbers, but the gameplay is failing.

You know why 'non hive' servers are fun? They have a giant lack of bandits. And usually have side chat. It actually feels like a couple months back, when you could team up with someone you'd never met before. Try that now. Enjoy respawning. :3

[servicestud 4]

200k players, avg. lifetime is rising.

Your argument is invalid.

[Element47 2480]

no offense meant, but this thread lacks originality. you state a valid opinion, and you are not alone. there are other people who share your point of view. so i will answer to you what i answer them: look at Survivor HQ and you will see, that there is a significant amount of people trying to do the right thing, helping each other, organizing - basically enjoying the game by playing it as the good guys.

what i really value about this game is, that it doesnt provide you with prescripted missions, objectives, some fixed end-game content. the end-game is, what you make it to be. for some, end-game is trolling noobs by spawncamping. for me, the end-game is running supply operations from south to north. for some, its operating a network of medics who help people all over the map, no matter if geared out or fresh, no matter if bandit or friendly.

if this level of autonomy is too much for you, then this game is by design not for you.

thats not bad: it would be horrible if everyone liked the same things, and we would lose all diversity.

[theo@theodormay.com 49]

Your tears are what fuel us ghillie snipers

[HazyMoon 3]

QQ more. Crymore. Carebear. It's an alpha. Sneak. Harden up. tl;dr

Okay, now we got that out of the way, if you intended on posting any of those, a combination thereof, or something similiar, get the fuck out. Intelligent conversation only, and not your brownnosing bullshit.

This game is failing because bandits.

That's it. It's that simple.

But this stems from design problems, I guess. And basic human (read: fucktard) nature.

I don't have anything better to do, so I'm going to kill you.

So, you just snuck through the fringe towns. You got some sweet hardware from the deer stands or wherever it is you get your weapons. You have a sniper rifle, and an assault rifle in your backpack. You have matches, a hatchet, food, water, heat packs, morphine. You're all set. You have everything you'll ever need.

Now what?

You know what? nothing. There's not a single fucking thing to do once you get this gear. You can sneak past MORE zombies. Or you can shoot them. You can roam the wilderness looking for crashed helicopters and NVG's. You can search for better weapons. but what do you do when you get these weapons?

You go back to the coast and shoot the guys who just got the game. There's just nothing else to do. I personally, have never stooped to this level. I've killed a total of maybe four other players. And never have I laid in wait to shoot them. But this isn't about me. This is about every single other cunt that plays this game. You have nothing better to do once you get this gear, other than shoot PEOPLE with it. A .50 sniper rifle is not designed for use on zombies. Don't even try to pretend it is. It's used specifically for killing players.

Now, let's look at it from the other side. Say you're a person who genuinely wants to help, like, say, me. I like to help people who are in a spot of bother in this game. I was running cherno/elektro server hopping at one point taking down the barbed wire that server hoppers had been putting up to fence off pretty much every single bit of real estate in the cities.

But I don't interact with other players. Why? You're all bastards. Sure, maybe one in five or so won't shoot me on sight. The other four? I'm dead. I'm not restarting and losing all my shit because you decided to be an asshole.

This is the mentality that has ruined this mod, on BOTH SIDES. "It's just a game, let's be COMPLETE, UTTER ASSHOLES! :D " Don't even fucking pretend to me that that isn't what 90% of you bandits feel, deep down. It's just a game. None of it matters.

Well you know what? It's not a fun game.

It's not a fun game when no one will help you. It's just a long, hard slog through brutal mutated zombies with the running strength of an olympic athlete pumped full of speed and on a sugar rush, looking for loot with no 'end game' in sight. Your entire gaming existence comes down to surviving. That's what this mod should be. But there are people out there who don't WANT to survive. They just want to deathmatch. You've seen them. Fuck, a lot of you have BEEN THAT PERSON. Sitting on the sidelines of the NWAF with a sniper rifle waiting for some hapless 'noob' to wander into your sights. Camping in Cherno looking to shoot noobs.

'It's just a game'.

New players either convert to being a bandit, or stop playing. Or they group up with friends that they have to meet OUTSIDE the game, because ALL of you are two faced, backstabbing pricks, and then that's their clique. They don't step outside that zone.

The only interaction between player groups in this game is the whoosh of bullets flying past their goddamn faces. This is half the fault of the game design, and half the fault of YOU, the player.

Every time you camp in Cherno killing noobs, every time you snipe some guy who's arrived at NWAF for the first time. Every time you betray and backstab just for the sheer glee you get in your heart for being an anonymous cunt over the internet. This is what is destroying the game.

And don't even try to pretend it's not. Or next time you see someone who's actually armed, walk up to them and say 'friendly'. Go on. I'll wait.

Eventually, the supply of fresh-faced, naive recruits WILL diminish, at which point you'll all have what you want. You'll have a deathmatch in Cherno. You'll have a deathmatch at the NWAF. You'll have a deathmatch called Chernarus. Because that's the direction this community is DRIVING this game.

New players are forced away by the constant banditry, or convert to the banditry way of playing the game. I know I have. If I see a player, I don't help them. I hide. And if they see me, I shoot.

I was a fresh faced recruit once, hoping to actually play a survival game where survivors were pitted against bandits, and zombies fucked up everyone. But now, everyone is a bandit, and no one can be trusted. Ever.

This isn't a survival simulator any more. It's a bandit simulator.

And guess what?

The bandits are winning.

And to the people who will say 'hey, I'm not a bandit! I help people!' Yeah. Welcome to the 1% buddy. Congratulations.

For the blatently retarded. I don't get killed by bandits. I actually have no problem with bandits. I have no problem killing them, or avoiding them. I can kit myself up to full capacity without meeting a single other player. Woopity FUCKING do. What I don't like banditry or the bandits way of gaming, is what it's done to the game. No one tries to help others, and avoids all contacts with others, because 4 out of every 5 people play the game as a bandit and will kill you. If not for your loot, then just to be a cunt.

Aren't you that guy I shot in the dome last night?

Serious note - I remember reading somewhere that this game is tuned around the PvP aspect which caters to bandits. I'll admit I started this game as a survival game and yes, bandits pissed me off and I hated them because it seemed I could never escape. However, I learned not to run right to Elektro or Cherno when I spawned; Instead, I ran north to gather gear where I wasn't bothered by anyone, let alone bandits. Once I got my friends to group up with me, we geared up with some of the best gear and decided to wreck havoc on any player we found.

**Insert <you didn't read my lack of content sentence> here**

Make sure you pay attention to this next part. It'll throw you right back into your dad's vagina.

I do remember reading a post from Rocket explaining that he would rather fix bugs first and foremost rather than add new content. Well I had more to say but I pretty much just proved my point and had a fine rebuttal to your post.

Good day to you ma'am.

Edited July 30, 2012 by HazyMoon

[NightRipper 284]

This sounds suspiciously like the OP of someone who's been sniped on the coast after spawning.

[Sakeoe (DayZ) 115]

Edited July 30, 2012 by Sakeoe

[CLewis 31]

I agree in general about what you are saying, but your approach to this problem is way of. If you want some actual feedback, then don't start of by alienating everyone.

[HazyMoon 3]

Now that I actually went back and read your whole post, do you even understand what Alpha testing means? All of the content isn't supposed to be included in Alpha; only certain aspects of the game to make sure mechanics function properly when everything is thrown in together. In order to make sure they work, you need testers. We are the testers. I'm sorry but you can either keep complaining about the lack of content in a mod that is currently in Alpha testing, or suck it up, play it and be happy.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/20011659.jpg

Edited July 30, 2012 by HazyMoon

[Mathias (DayZ) 4]

As e47 pointed out there is more to this game than meets the eye. Not having a defined end game is what makes it enjoyable. Make yourself a bucket list of things you want to do in the game, here is mine:

1. Find an AS50 (over 30 hours played since last weekend when I got it and still haven't found one)

2. Find NVGs

3. Find a helicopter crash

4. Kill bandit sniper

5. Fix a land vehicle

6. Fix a helicopter

7. Fix a boat

8. Find some noobs and guard them through cherno

9. Build a stash

10. Place fixed items at stash (except for boat ofc)

11. Find another groups stash.

Those are just the ones I can think of.

As for your complaint with bandits, all I can say is to man up. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

[d1rty 4]

If you can't beat 'em - Join 'em, don't post a thread crying about it.

you've got what? 220 square km to play in?, and bandits are ruining it for you? then you suck at concealment. I've not engaged or seen another player in like 3 days now and I play on a fairly high pop server.

methinks you're just bad and get killed.

L2play = stop crying

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

Every day another thread, another circular discussion going nowhere because the discussion is based upon a fundamentally flawed premise: that there are two types of people in DayZ - survivors and bandits.

Nobody ever wants to account for the fact that most players are somewhere in between.

I do all of the things people seem to claim they want from the "survivor" portion of this game - I travel with companions, I share food, water and equipment, I bandage wounds and apply blood bags and epi-pens, I defend my friends from zombies and players, I cooperate to build and repair vehicles, I search for high-value loot, I've explored every inch of the map, I help new players learn the game and acquire basic tools for survival, etc. I do all of this every day I play the game.

But, I do it with people I know and trust.

If I don't know you and don't trust you and you run up on my squad expecting a high-five and a hug? You're going to get whipped into a fine paste by my M249.

Is that a flaw in the game design? That I don't want to be best friends with every stranger that sidles up to me unannounced?

I say no. I say a flaw would be some system of arbitrary and artificial restrictions and rules that would force me to be friends with you even though I don't want to. There are reasons I don't have more friends than I do already, and I don't want to play a game that forces me to make more. The day rocket adds some mechanic to force me to team up with every Cheeto-fingered, Mt. Dew-swilling ne'er-do-well who plays the game is the day I retire.

I've tried cooperating with random strangers I meet in the game. They run when they should walk, stand when they should crawl, shoot when they should wait, approach when they should stay back, lack communication skills, basic terrain knowledge, map-reading skills, etc. This usually results in my death or the death of a friends from either friendly fire or a zombie or hostile player that was alerted to our presence due to the actions of this stranger. It's not worth it. I don't want to be friends with you, okay? I don't want to cooperate with you. I have my squad and we're full so go away or face the consequences, eh?

The real meat of the issue is that people aren't used to playing games where trust and reliability matter so much. In WoW if you get a random dungeon finder with some assholes who don't know what they're doing, big deal. You lose a bit of item durability and 45 minutes. Okay, no biggie.

In DayZ so much more is on the line. Many hours, days, months of play and survival.

I'm sitting on Day 48 with 1200 zombie kills and you want me to put that in the hands of any old jackanapes who pops his head up and says "friendly!"?

Not a fucking chance.

rocket can do all he can to support and encourage cooperation, but he can't "game design" you into human relationships. You have to find those yourself, work on them on your own and then use them in the game to your advantage.

Edited July 30, 2012 by ZedsDeadBaby

[kostuek 47]

Well, that is what this "experiment" is about, isn't it? Give them a lot of weapons, don't say them what to do, don't punish bandits, make it quiet easy to survive. Make "death" mean something, at least a long boring run.

Will they kill each other just for fun?

Oh, yeah, baby, we will. We will so hard.

So this mod, this experiment is a full success. People are coming here, because the deatch here means more then in other games, killing is much more fun this way.

But... Even if the mod didn't fail, maybe we, as the humans we are, did. Just like in the last few thousand years.

Edited July 30, 2012 by kostuek

[Hinaru 96]

Get some mates, play with them, get a clan, play with them.

But for the sake of god - don't cry about bandits and getting killed. Please - Just don't do it. We saw those threads enough here!

[Badwolf3500 6]

First of all QQ more. Crymore. Carebear. It's an alpha. Sneak. Harden up. ect.

Second the game is at a point that this is happening and the game needs to adapt and if you would stay intune with the interviews and other things that come out on youtube and facebook you would know that Rocket plans to do something about this by adding more content. In the form of player made cities and allowing them to restore power and other things, his has not promised this but what do you expect thats a big undertaking.

Third the banditry has become part of the game and if you don't like it then don't play or get together with your friends. And if you met someone in this situation in real life your telling me that you would not watch your back then for that reason you deserve to die, it's all about trust and building it.

Fourth to respond to your comment on how the game is no longer fun well you see the thing is that Rocket when he made this game did not intend for it to be fun he intended for it to make experence emotions that you would not feel in other game like you get attached to your stuff and if you die your pissed at losing it example I was at the NWAF with one friend of mine and he had to go soon anyway so i said we should log out for now and come back to this later and the fact that we heard gunshots enforced that fact that we should leave and come back later, well he no lets loot the firehouse well I when first for some reason and I got the shit shot out of me now I had an alice a AKS kobra and a ton of ammo for it was I piss HELL YA mostly at myself for not forcing that we should log out and at my friend for not agreeing with me but not the guy who shot me and never even crossed my mind the game. I raged and quit the game but 15 minutes later I was back on trying to get back to the NWAF to my friend who somehow survived. Or another pass of emotions when you see another player and you get that fear in you gut, is he a bandit? is he just going to start shooting? should I talk to him? should I just shoot him? or should I just leave? The fact that all these things pass through your mind show that Rocket succeeded at his orginal goal.

Are there things wrong with the mod YES! Like the guns have been nerfed and they did not need to be, there are still gliches glore, but the core of the mod is not failing just changing and you could either stay here and wait out those changes or fuck off and miss out on all the fun that is yet to come!

And plus the fact that when I started playing this game at the beginning of july and there was about 450,000 ppl and now there is 925,459 ppl well your argument is disproved right there!

Oh ya and one more thing that you need to remeber IT'S IN ALPHA!!!!!!!! ;) :D

Edited July 30, 2012 by Badwolf3500

[federik21 42]

my signature

[gizm0 96]

I have to agree with zdb, but Dayz doesn't really feel like an alpha but more a Proof of concept. with all the meat in friendly behavior missing.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Orthus

[Bettik 3]

The PvP as a fundamental aspect of the game isn't the problem. The players choosing to go bandit aren't the problem. The problem is that this isn't a game, it's an experiment. And so far, the results of the experiment are that given this particular zombie apocalypse scenario, everyone will ultimately become a "bandit". Day Z attempts to put people in a world of anarchy (no law, no direction), say "go", and see what happens.

No, the real problem here is that as hard as it tries to present you with a "realistic" world, it doesn't really come close. Sure, it comes closer than anything we've ever seen before, but everything is still confined to the strict mathematical procedures that generate it. Specifically, in real life, nothing "re-spawns", and nothing is so predictable as all the procedurally generated content in the game.

Solution? All the content generated by the game needs to be far far less predictable. The whole concept of things respawning needs a serious overhaul to make it less obvious. And finally, and perhaps most importantly, people need something to "DO". Either make survival more of an ever-present threat, or embrace the fact that people get to the point of surviving comfortably within hours of playing the game and give them something else to concentrate on.

[m1lkm8n 61]

I'd like to address the issue with the .50 cal rifles. Actually they aren't designed for use against people they are for use against vehicules which is why they are called anti material rifles.

And I too like the bandits. That's another thing that makes this game so much fun!

The only thing I'd like to see is tents totally destroyed if a bandit hits my camp.

This way it forces me to find those things again instead of waiting for a server restart.

It sounds to me like someone keeps getting killed by snipers and to that I say.....stay out of electro

[justwrath 23]

You go back to the coast and shoot the guys who just got the game. There's just nothing else to do.

Other things to do...

1. go to the coast and counter snipe the very people you complain about

2. camp stary or NW airfield waiting for server hoppers to kill.

3. look for camps

4. look for and repair vehicles.

if none of these things entice you and you're looking for some hug it out session with complete strangers who have no reason to trust you, and no real threat to defend against other than other players, you're playing the wrong game.

The ever growing list of servers and continued success of arma 2 sales contradict your claim of failure, and even if that were true, so be it. The game is a sandbox. Stop trying to impose structure to it. Its not about structure, and never will be.

[A Bush killed me 189]

It needs more tools to play with in the sandbox.