The PvP Discussion Thread

[ParaB 114]

I believe that the lack of bandit skins or a similar way of recognizing players who regularly kill other players will hurt the game.

In my group we will most certainly switch from "live and let live" which, as far as survivors go, so far has worked pretty well, to "shoot everyone not in our group".

The game will become IMO much less fun for solo players not travelling in packs with TS/Mumble/etc...

[callousdisregard 2]

My psych profile has been classified since 1984.

[The Killing Joke 43]

So, wait a second... You say:

I believe that the lack of bandit skins or a similar way of recognizing players who regularly kill other players will hurt the game.

...and THEN' date=' you say:

In my group we will most certainly switch from "live and let live" which, as far as survivors go, so far has worked pretty well, to "shoot everyone not in our group".

So, it's YOUR FAULT. Thank you for making the perfect point. It's people like YOU - not those wearing the Bandit Skin - who are at fault for the game devolving. Congrats.

[joote 1]

It seems the game has transformed itself into a ganking fest, no one seems to give a monkeys about the zombies any more. Get rid of the zombies and rename the mod to GANKZ. :)

[deadbolt (DayZ) 10]

It seems the game has transformed itself into a ganking fest' date=' no one seems to give a monkeys about the zombies any more. Get rid of the zombies and rename the mod to GANKZ. :)

[/quote']

people need gear to survive so they kill other people, whats wrong about that?

[The Killing Joke 43]

It seems the game has transformed itself into a ganking fest' date=' no one seems to give a monkeys about the zombies any more. Get rid of the zombies and rename the mod to GANKZ. :)[/quote']

Hey, I care about those damn zeds. I play the game as a lone wolf, and try oh so hard to get stuff to better myself. It's hard as hell to sneak into a place when you have a limited supply of ammo, and worth it when you find something.

I get my ass handed to me more often than not, and most times, it's from other players. Sure, you feel bad that you worked hard to achieve something, only to have it taken from you in that way, but you learn and you grow.

I wouldn't have it any other way.

[ParaB 114]

So' date=' it's YOUR FAULT. Thank you for making the perfect point. It's people like YOU - not those wearing the Bandit Skin - who are at fault for the game devolving. Congrats.

[/quote']

No.

But I didn't expect you to understand it since you've made more than clear where you stand on the issue.

[Jikfive 34]

Keep the PVP. The human element and risk of contact with strangers is what really makes this game exciting. As a survivor it really gets the adrenaline going when I meet another player who I am unfamiliar with.

If the pvp is nerfed/removed I might as well go play Left 4 Dead.

[ClinClin 1]

The day another survivor' date=' bandit, group of people, whatever, that manage to take me down; I'll offer to group up with them, and I'll mean it seriously. Not to fuck them over, but because I know that it would be beneficial. So far this has never happened because nobody that plays Day Z seems to read and learn from as much fucking courage wolf as I do.

[/quote']

At this point I laughed. Of course, only the one who is skillful enough to take you down will instatly recognize a true brutal wolf that you are and he will sure be hardly waiting for teaming up with next time you pop up around. Yep.

[The Killing Joke 43]

No.

But I didn't expect you to understand it since you've made more than clear where you stand on the issue.

Please explain to me where I am wrong. I quoted you - verbatim - above' date=' saying that it's going to become a deathmatch because you're going to make it a deathmatch. Please explain where [i']I failed to understand rather than you failed to make your point clearly.

[cybercam 0]

By the time the game gets out of Alpha, it WILL be a deathmatch/team deathmatch. I keep hearing people say trust no one. So when you meet other players, just kill him/her just to be on the safe side. Soon enough there will be no one playing the game as a "survivor" and the zombie thing will become mute.

I'm just setting back & watching the show LOL!

[Dinnj 4]

Deathmatch elements with guns.

Deathmatch elements with zombies.

Let us apply the doomcallers' logic.

'If people start killing eachother, that's the focus of the game. The guns become totally irrelevant. They aren't the main focus any more. I wanted to play for the guns, not the PvP.'

Wait, no. The guns are a major factor.

Why do you think that zombies will become irrelevant? If anything the zombies are the reason people shoot eachother rather than run into every building for free loot. Remove zombies and the game would turn into an RP utopia, not a deathmatch.

[Jikfive 34]

Instead of trying to change the PVP system how about you figure out a REWARD for playing as a good guy? Right now playing as a bandit has great REWARDS and low RISK.

Bandits.

1. No moral dilemma when dealing with strangers. Ambushes players.

2. Less need to scavenge because they are supplied by loot they receive from corpses. Reducing exposure to hostile zombies and to strangers.

3. Permadeath rewards this risk aversion type play.

Surviors.

1. Moral Dilemma, exposing themselves to greater danger when dealing with strangers.

2. Higher need to scavenge to sustain themselves, exposing themselves more often to hostile zombies, strangers, and bandits.

3. Permadeath penalizes this type of play.

In my mind the logical choice would be to play as a bandit.

Devs really need to figure out a way to reward players that play as a "good guy."

[deadbolt (DayZ) 10]

for everyone complaining about everyone shooting eachother

go to survivor forum -> group up with people -> problem solved

---

Instead of trying to change the PVP system how about you figure out a REWARD for playing as a good guy? Right now playing as a bandit has great REWARDS and low RISK.

Bandits.

1. No moral dilemma when dealing with strangers. Ambushes players.

2. Less need to scavenge because they are supplied by loot they receive from corpses. Reducing exposure to hostile zombies and to strangers.

3. Permadeath rewards this risk aversion type play.

Surviors.

1. Moral Dilemma' date=' exposing themselves to greater danger when dealing with strangers.

2. Higher need to scavenge to sustain themselves, exposing themselves more often to hostile zombies, strangers, and bandits.

3. Permadeath penalizes this type of play.

In my mind the logical choice would be to play as a bandit.

Devs really need to figure out a way to reward players that play as a "good guy."

[/quote']

easier for good guys to group up together, when you play in a group its easier to repair vehicles etc.. safer to loot popular areas.. safer against bandits.. if you die u your friends can save ur gear for when u get back

maybe dont play as a lone survivor?

[Dinnj 4]

Instead of trying to change the PVP system how about you figure out a REWARD for playing as a good guy? Right now playing as a bandit has great REWARDS and low RISK.

Bandits.

1. No moral dilemma when dealing with strangers. Ambushes players.

2. Less need to scavenge because they are supplied by loot they receive from corpses. Reducing exposure to hostile zombies and to strangers.

3. Permadeath rewards this risk aversion type play.

Surviors.

1. Moral Dilemma' date=' exposing themselves to greater danger when dealing with strangers.

2. Higher need to scavenge to sustain themselves, exposing themselves more often to hostile zombies, strangers, and bandits.

3. Permadeath penalizes this type of play.

In my mind the logical choice would be to play as a bandit.

Devs really need to figure out a way to reward players that play as a "good guy."

[/quote']

These sorts of posts are TOTALLY cancerous to the game. You are asking devs to balance the game around playstyles.

Do not even try to disguise it as anything else. There is no reason that they should REWARD people for playing a certain way.

You go into a game, and you adapt your playstyle to be successful at it. You don't start playing, say WoW, and wear cloth as a warrior and start raging on the forums for them to balance the game for that playstyle because you think it's exciting. Or go on C: SS and start asking devs to balance the game for people who want to use a knife as their primary weapon.

It's not like there are two classes, survivor and bandit, you are all on equal footing. The balance between players is perfectly balanced. They shouldn't reward players for making stupid choices. See the error of your ways.

[Jikfive 34]

I am merely stating that there are really NO incentives to play as a good guy.

[deadbolt (DayZ) 10]

I am merely stating that there are really NO incentives to play as a good guy.

there are incentives to grouping up however, you at least acknowledge that right?

[sprenger5@hotmail.com 2]

I hate bandits.

Nice guys finish last, and I'm a nice guy. It's been taking me 30 minutes today, everytime I respawn or log onto a server. So I know if I kill someone they will have to suffer through that and not get to play the game. So I tell the guy not to shoot after I had him in my sights, dead to rights.

I am dead. Waiting to load in.

[Jikfive 34]

Yes grouping up is great. However, I can still group up as a bandit with my friends also.

I am just saying that the choice to play as either a bandit or survivor is an easy one to make.

[Dinnj 4]

Devs really need to figure out a way to reward players that play as a "good guy."

Okay, sorry. This part sort of got my blood up so I apologise for any misunderstanding, I think.

My point still stands. I'd hate for them for balance a game around a minority playstyle to make them happy without them having to adapt.

[Jikfive 34]

Don't get me wrong. I love the Pvp. I love the permadeath, I enjoy the idea of bandits. However, if the game devolves into a deathmatch/team deathmatch vs zombies it wouldn't be very fun.

I want the decision to turn towards evil to be one that carries weight. Because right now, there are NO negatives to shooting EVERYONE you see in the face. ONLY REWARDS. Why do you think the devs initially forced bandit skins onto murderers? To reveal to the rest of the world what they are in hopes to alienate them from the rest as a consequence to their evil actions. That however has not worked. The consequence of their decision does not balance their rewards.

This is why the devs have the thread up right now. There NEEDS to be some balance. If too many players resort to banditry then it WILL become deathmatch with zombies.

[deadbolt (DayZ) 10]

Don't get me wrong. I love the Pvp. I love the permadeath' date=' I enjoy the idea of bandits. However, if the game devolves into a deathmatch/team deathmatch vs zombies it wouldn't be very fun.

I want the decision to turn towards evil to be one that carries weight. Because right now, there are NO negatives to shooting EVERYONE you see in the face. ONLY REWARDS. Why do you think the devs initially forced bandit skins onto murderers? To reveal to the rest of the world what they are in hopes to alienate them from the rest as a consequence to their evil actions. That however has not worked. The consequence of their decision does not balance their rewards.

This is why the devs have the thread up right now. There NEEDS to be some balance. If too many players resort to banditry then it WILL become deathmatch with zombies.

[/quote']

(04-30-2012 01:01 AM)rocket Wrote:

The sniper you describe - there are people like this in the world, and in the breakdown of order I can bet that there would be people who would sit on a roof and shoot people "just for the lulz".

The system makes no judgement on player actions, and this is one of the only real rules that was adopted for the development. While consequences may occur for a particular action (e.g. humanity loss), no judgement is implied or placed on that behavior. Beyond hacks, and misuse of exploits, regulating player behavior is not a scope of this project. If players, themselves, wish to group together and attempt to regulate the behavior. Well, that's entirely up to you.

This kind of activity is not for everyone. It really is more of a social experiment than a game. There is no intention to change that, if you dislike the PVP, then I would recommend playing Dynamic Zombie Sandbox or Celery's excellent Chernaus Apocalypse - there is no point in these being recreated through this mod.

[Jikfive 34]

Your right it is a social experiment. However, part of the experiment relies on trust and paranoia. If the system rewards murder then you will have a world where NO social interaction will occur. I have 10 friends on TS, so why would I even bother talking to a stranger. The paranoia is gone. I have my group. I kill anyone else that is not part of it, and I only get rewarded for it.

So the social experiment you are describing actually discourages ANY social interaction with strangers.

a la team deathmatch with zombies.

[Dinnj 4]

Is it not a deathmatch with zombies already? Is that not why you are raising these complaints? Everyone is finding it fun at the moment. The people who dislike the setup are a startling minority.

The fundamental point that you seem to be totally unable to understand is that player's should not be punished for playing more intelligently than others. How would you balance it? Do you have any, even nearly, specific workable suggestions? Maybe bandits should have their damage reduced by 50% because their anger overheats their barrels? Maybe their red eyes illuminate them to all zombies within a 5 mile radius? Any ideas?

Without presenting specific suggestions it's hard to really evaluate your suggestion on any meaningful level, as I can't think of anything that wouldn't punish people for playing smart, and encourage people for playing like suckers.

(For the above post you made)

If it isn't very fun, surely you AREN'T getting rewarded for it? It seems be a total oxymoron. You say you're getting rewarded, but that it is not fun. This is the opposite of what you describe. How about you start trusting people and get fucked over if that's the sort of gameplay you want?

[deadbolt (DayZ) 10]

Your right it is a social experiment. However' date=' part of the experiment relies on trust and paranoia. If the system rewards murder then you will have a world where NO social interaction will occur. I have 10 friends on TS, so why would I even bother talking to a stranger. The paranoia is gone. I have my group. I kill anyone else that is not part of it, and I only get rewarded for it.

So the social experiment you are describing actually discourages ANY social interaction with strangers.

a la team deathmatch with zombies.

[/quote']

those were not my words, rocket is the developer of the game