The PvP Discussion Thread

[Jeff (DayZ) 1]

The problem is that people who wish to disrupt and harm the player made areas will abuse out of game mechanics to do so. Server hopping being the biggest offender.

[oktyabr 53]

I agree server hopping is one of the biggest problems with this mod right now, probably only fixable by removing cross-server persistence (It sounds like each server will have it's own database soon anyway).

I still like the idea of a bullet-free zone (in or out) that is constructed in the same way that vehicles are repaired, by gathering and assembling certain items. Only persistent while it's maintained, not permanent and not affixed to any one certain area. Even bandits would be safe there, and others safe from them. Good place to barter for a blood transfusion, food, or that snazzy gucci weapon you've been after or just a place to meet up with others, without being worried about being shot doing it. Should help encourage grouping. Also a safe place to log off.

[Lovvi 0]

Might be Off topic, but, do UO servers kick if you have negative morality (I mean like very negative)?

[Bandit (DayZ) 3]

We've had guys with over 30k negative morality so I dont think so

[Freeborne (DayZ) 7]

Why do people say things like "that will never make it in this mod"?

AFAIK, only rocket is doing the coding for this mod. I expect he'll grow tired of this one day, and open it up to the community to continue development, and branch of it's own versions. Much like the "Life" mods.

I mean, for someone who claims he doesn't want to impose rules and restrictions on the players and the mod, it wouldn't make much sense to then say we HAVE to play the mod the way he wants us to, right? I've seen several post stating that players shouldn't be forced out of PvPing, yet the lack of rules and anti-PvP features currently forces many players out of playing cooperatively.

So, how can you argue that you can't run the mod on a server with admin rule stating that senseless killing will get you kicked/banned? How can you say no-one else will ever add anti-PvP measures to the mod?

99% of the population is NPC's (Zombies). We just need a few survivor NPC's who don't want to roam the countryside looting and killing Zombies. Where's the woman and old ladies who want to stay in a safe-zone, purifying water, mending clothes and cooking dinner? Hopefully we'll see these in a future release, and doing missions for the area will earn you reputation, while killing other players will make you wanted and the NPC guards will shoot you on sight.

It's like The Walking Dead show. We're the Rick, Shane and Dale's of the survivors? Where's the Lorrie and Carol of the survivors that we need to protect, or rescue to bring back to the group? Those should be the NPC's that allow us to setup base camps, that act as safe-havens for those with positive reputation. People can still PvP if they want, but that means nowhere will be safe for them, while at least survivors have a chance of finding somewhere safer. Eventually if enough people do this, good will win over evil as the bandits will have little place to hide.

[Baskerville (DayZ) 1]

Nope there doesn't have to be punishment for random killing. If YOUR stupid enough to go snooping around a highly player populated area expect to get shot.

I have no time for these scrubs who yell out are you friendly and then get upset when someone shoots them. Again common sense is greatly lacking in some people who play this mod.

[Kneesocks 4]

To bring it back around to the repercussions for random killing, there really shouldn't be any. There are already natural repercussions to that anyway - you get labeled a murderer, and then you cannot be trusted by other people in the community. It's pretty much that simple.

The game is practically designed to be a human experiment. What makes this game great is that it's not like other zombie survival games where humans are all friendly and nice with each other. It's an authentic scenario - some people will kill others for their own gain. It makes the game much more dynamic and gritty, adding heavy atmosphere and suspense.

[Thesreyn 18]

To bring it back around to the repercussions for random killing' date=' there really shouldn't be any. There are already natural repercussions to that anyway - you get labeled a murderer, and then you cannot be trusted by other people in the community. It's pretty much that simple.

The game is practically designed to be a human experiment. What makes this game great is that it's not like other zombie survival games where humans are all friendly and nice with each other. It's an authentic scenario - some people will kill others for their own gain. It makes the game much more dynamic and gritty, adding heavy atmosphere and suspense.

[/quote']

I have to disagree with the last part. The mod isn't close to a psychological experiment. Rocket wanted to create something that was intense and generated real human emotions, and from the reactions in a number of threads, and the stories people tell (and my own adrenaline pumping gameplay), he has certainly accomplished that.

BUT, there are rules and limitations to any survival mod. Life is still cheap. It may be hard to get your gear, it may be frustrating and difficult to get a car, or to have to save a friend, and it might be tough to even considered shooting another player. But at the end of the day, you are still playing a game. Respawning is easy. Loot will always be somewhere. And most pertinent of all to this topic, there is no emotional or humanity based downside, besides your humanity meter, for killing another player. By most accounts (let us disregard those involving clinical psychopaths shall we?) it is incredibly difficult to take a human life. This is something that can NEVER (or practically never) be evoked in video games, because what it all comes down to is shooting pixels. There's no long term effect on either the player shooting, or the player getting shot. They don't have to live with any haunting decisions, or symptoms of PTSD, all they've done is clicked a button to send some pixels into other pixels which causes a change in the end pixels. There is no humanity attached to actions, and there can't be.

What does this mean for the mod and PVP? It will always exist. You can take away shooting other players, but people will find ways to PVP. The only way to remove it entirely is to remove the influence of players on each other, and then you're just playing single player. It also means that rampant killing will always be around, because you can't say "but in real life you wouldn't do that" because this isn't real life, no matter how close the simulation might be. Why do you think Sim City has menu options to drop Godzilla and UFO's on your city?

Detrimental actions towards other players will be in any online game, forever. At the end of the day, there's a total disconnect between what matters in real life and what happens in game. It seems a lot of players who are getting shot are forgetting that. So essentially, deal with it and take it into account in your next play through. It's not like it matters anyway.

[Palora 6]

How do you turn this into a deterrent rather than a punishment?

And you call other people names when you don't know that punishment act as deterrent in it self? If you get punished for doing something, you'll try to not do it again, simple really. Unless your dumber then ... an insect i guess. (can't think of any animal stupid enough to not stop doing something that causes pain to it self, well griefers maybe, since they keep trying even when the get banned)

Getting the bandit skin even in self defense is a good start, it makes everyone careful about moving around (isn't this what you want as well?) so they don't have to be killed or kill in retaliation. If Retard X, who has 10 murders in 30 mins around Cherno, gets banned for 30 mins when he kills another guy then he'll be more careful who and when he kills next time ( = deterrent).

But see, you don't seem to grasp why others are not having fun playing the way you play. In all your long, boring, inconsistent, post, not only have you failed to present what you think would be an acceptable solution, but you have failed to understand why there is in fact a problem.

You have spent the last 28 pages shouting 'There is no problem' in order to prevent griefers for being punished. And have shouted that again every time someone has tried to reason with you. I've wasted enough time with you.

There is no deterrent and no major consequence for going on a murder spree from the moment you spawn. The bandit skin is a decent step, but they are saying even that might be removed, i guess the experiment will end sooner then later.

[Thesreyn 18]

The problem is that people are getting so up in arms over a video game. This is not real and quite frankly, the player killing is not a problem. So you died, big frigging deal, what repercussions does it have on you? If you wanted to okay a game where everything you did was always safe from outside forces, why are you playing a survival game where loss and death are a very real possibility?

The bandit skin is futile, because it doesn't tell a player anything, beyond "this player has killed someone else at some point". It doesn't tell anyone anything about how that skin came to be, what the player is actually like etc.

Punishment for the killing of other players is arbitrary and, quite frankly, smacks of childish complaints because "he's not sharing!" Nut up. It's a game. You will die. If you get killed, start again and try and avoid whatever it was that killed you in the first place. The only difference between this and say, Half Life, is that Half Life has save points which you can reload. Here you have to start again.

And honestly, that's what it all comes down to. People complaining about the rampant killing are so attached to the gear that they find that they will actively come on to the forums to complain about the loss of that gear. NO. Stop. It's not because you got killed because you getting killed doesn't mean shit and you know it. It's because you lost that fancy pack, or you lost that fancy weapon, or you lost some progress towards whatever it was you were doing.

You can go and accomplish all those goals again. My friends and I went back to where we had parked our car, only to find it gone, with all the supplies in it. Was it stolen or did the server not save it? We don't know. It doesn't matter. Car and supplies are gone, deal with it and move on. What we haven't done, is come onto the forums and cried because people can steal our car, or because rocket hates us for not coding cars perfectly.

Tl;dr you lost some gear. Deal with it, respawn and try again.

[vanomas 0]

A lot of people hate "classic" rpg in arma because of stupid rules:

- Don't shoot here or you gonna be banned

- Don't kill there or you gonna be banned

- Don't rape admin or you gonna be banned

- Don't use something or you gonna be banned

- Don't .... or you gonna be banned

- Don't bal-bla-bla or you gonna be banned

- Roleplay like admin said or you gonna be banned

- If you killed admin or admin's friend, it's not RP so you gonna be banned

- ...punished

- ...kicked

- ...banned

- ...punished

- ...kicked

- ...banned

FU that stupid shit. Here is, in this mod you feel full FREEDOM like "as drink of the fresh water":

no stupid rules and no admin harassing about to "you have broken rule number xxx.yyy.zzz and gonna be banned"

I very love this mod, it's f..g GREAT even at Alpha buggy stage!

Wtf dear whiners? You didn't read the chat? You ignore chat messages and still going to Cherno while

The Gang is there? You got killed but you got warned and IGNORED me and my members.

You don't want to be killed "ON THE FORUM" (I mean tearsy stories) but you're doing ALL to be killed IN FACT - in the game.

So stop bullshiting and communicate with each others, team up, create counter gang or police.

[rocket 16567]

I think actually for the most part there is agreement.

Generally speaking, myself included, we don't think there can be a restrictive mechanic for it.

But there needs to be more incentive to team up, which is natural in the real world.

This is going to take some time to be implemented, its not a simple one or two line code change. Persistent fortifications are a test of the ability for the server to handle large numbers of objects, so we will see how that goes.

[swayzesghost 14]

I had no idea this thread would take off so much when I made it...I think at this point that you're mostly correct in assuming that being a murderer will mostly function as its own punishment, once proper support systems are in place to identify the criminals (body studying, direct chat, etc)

The murdering has gotten a lot better in a week or so, as players get accustomed to the game.

[Andrew_Gill 0]

I've survived for roughly 4 days now... Only killed one guy, fucker tried to steal my car. I'm no murderer by any means, but I do like the dynamic of roaming bandit gangs that purely rape and pillage to rape and pillage. It isn't for me, but I can survive whilst it's going on. I would suggest to the players of DayZ that wish to reform "civil" society, possibly more than one group so we could have possibility of faction warfare, to become a policing body, either killing or "incarcerating" bandits. Incarceration would be like revoking their guns for a time while they play "medic" to get their humanity back positive... reforming them to rely on others for a time being. It would be dangerous shit mind you... and anytime you take your eye off them they could snap and kill you... but it's just a fun suggestion.

[Nate (DayZ) 7]

I'll add my two cents... This mod is going in the right direction in my opinion. We need to continue focusing on improving stability, and eliminating bugs. That being said, I just am not happy with all of the complaining going on. Pardon my french, but fuck the "No-fire zones/Safe havens", quit being fucking pussies and actually learn to survive without making commonly-known stupid decisions. Yes I know there are bandits out there that are ready to spend a couple of hours and bullets into tracking you slowly, resulting in a clean kill and a loot. But thats the game, and if you can't keep up with the smarter players out-playing you, then get out of here. I'm seeing more and more players who think they are pretty much invincible with all their gear and NVGs, and they just don't know how to survive and properly make decisions based on the consequences that could happen. Is it really worth headed to Cherno with all your gear to loot the hospital? Is it really worth crossing that large plain, instead of taking the long, but safe way around using the treeline? It might take longer, but hey, that could have been the decision that saved your life. I've been alive for a long time now, I've been going slowly, in a SMALL group with people I trust. Quit running around like headless chickens and you could do this too.

[Limeni 7]

Oh man, no fire zone was just a suggestion, I got that form stalker and I still think it has some good sides, no need to get so butthurt about it. I'm not a pussy, it's just a game I don't take it that seriously...and I respect your opinion, you should try the same.

[Kypho 0]

In the world of this mod, where is no police, no society, no military, why do you want to punish murderers? Even in RL there are f.cktards who killing, beating your ass etc. even if there is police.

[quakephil 0]

In a real "zombie apocalypse" anyone who murdered or robbed would be rounded up and killed FIRST. There would be consequences.

That makes no sense (unless you're talking about hollywood movies)

[Kypho 0]

In a real "zombie apocalypse" anyone who murdered or robbed would be rounded up and killed FIRST. There would be consequences.

That makes no sense (unless you're talking about hollywood movies)

Me at least i would kill you when youre alone, and you wont see that i attacking you (just the server ^^), so no revenge or punishment.

[boneboys 7988]

I want to know who killed me, the repercution will follow.

I've been killed 3 times today at, or nearly at spawn points, wtf.

There was a whole pile of bodies. This sort of murder must be stoped.

"Call teh Cops..."

[Killdozer (DayZ) 0]

I like the murder system the way it is. Staying as close to how it would be in real life makes this game exciting and tense. if you have a reporting system or some way of knowing who shot you from their well concealed location than IMO it all goes to shit. Awesome job so far Devs.

[LordFrost 3]

I don't think the whole point about in-game murder being "close to real life" is valid.

In real life, I can't spot someone atop a building, go to a 'parallel world' and move to that location, return to his world and feed him shotgun shells at point blank.

That is just one example where the whole "oh it is so realistic" thing falls flat on its face in my opinion.

Having said that, I heard talk about NPC killteams going after full-time campers and I'm all in favor - so long as they're beatable!

A very good sniper should have the ability to take them out and gain formidable loot from the whole thing, while someone who's just stroking his e-willy by randomly firing at newbies would get ground into paste.

Murder must be a part of post-apoc, it always is in any of the literature as well. I'd rather not name the other staples of post-apoc materials, but thankfully I can't see them being implemented any time soon.

However, like with survival, it should require a certain amount of skill to do it for prolonged periods of time. As it stands, the bountiful CZ550 ammo makes it far too easy for a newbie to climb atop a tower and feel like the big dog after shooting three newbies himself.

And on that note: I don't like bandit skins. While I don't have one myself, I know quite a few folks who got theirs by putting someone out who shot at them and missed... That seems more like a punishment for competence, than a proper judgment of the player's character.

[dacaveboy@hotmail.com 6]

Theres a lot of comments for how to reduce PVP in this thread. Many many pages ago I suggested people forming in game groups to combat bandits. I myself am now forming one such group and am looking for peeps to help.

Head to this thread and express interesting in joining up now!

Thread of win.

Sorry, had to plug it :P

[Kneesocks 4]

*snip*

Detrimental actions towards other players will be in any online game' date=' forever. At the end of the day, there's a total disconnect between what matters in real life and what happens in game.

[/quote']

You took what I said, exaggerated it multiple times, and then took it way too seriously on top of it all.

[Knollte 13]

just gonna say remove murder score from leaderboards.

i really think that would lower the amount pointless killings for sport.