The PvP Discussion Thread

[reuben5150 83]

Pvp in the arma engine is sh@t, other games do it much better, it took about 10 mins to realize this..... :s

[Maca (DayZ) 769]

Its as simple as this you take the pvp out of this mod then every player thats not a pker will get sick of playing..... Thats the great thing about this game..;)

I'm a survivor "sounds like a distiny child song" playin for the last 8 weeks and havent killed anyone, not saying i didnt have bandits or survivors in my sights a few disconnected.... I've grouped up with other survivors and even once or twice with bandits watching them at all times, but thats the "Drama". Been Killed "like everybody else" by bandits and survivors, even ladders and Zs.

So all I'm saying is if you take out one?? "pvp" then you might aswel take out the ladders,Zs and everything else thats a treat to your survival.......... Then we could all sit around holding hands and singing.

"Average life expectancy 27 minutes"

[Egochek 0]

Or you could just make a few Non-PVP "Carebear" servers and be done with it. There's no need for intense debate over morality here, other game companies figured this out a long time ago.

Make Non-PVP, PVP, and Hardcore servers available, then tag the character the player has so they cant "Server hop" to a from a carebear to PVP server without having to get new equipment once they are there. Super easy peasy chicken greasy, and the game isnt "Ruined" for anyone... done.

[Srel 3]

"Or you could just make a few Non-PVP "Carebear" servers and be done with it. There's no need for intense debate over morality here, other game companies figured this out a long time ago.

Make Non-PVP, PVP, and Hardcore servers available, then tag the character the player has so they cant "Server hop" to a from a carebear to PVP server without having to get new equipment once they are there. Super easy peasy chicken greasy, and the game isnt "Ruined" for anyone... done. "

I know I'll sound like a douche for this, but the game experience would be slightly damaged for PvPers. Killing carebears is more fun than killing people who want to kill me.

Killing people who do not want to be killed is fun. Go ahead and hate me.

Despite that, I still ask "friendly" and help people out once in awhile. Just depends on my mood. And I'm friendly 100% of the time if I'm sure the other guy has a huge advantage over me (like Winchester vs DMR at long range).

[UnAVA 1]

I personally never killed a survivor unless they started firing at me and never turned into a bandit before, but I think the PvP is an important factor in the game and should stay. The main reason behind this is that I usually play with my buddies and the tense situation and communication between us during the engagement with a sniper etc is something you cant experience in any other game, and the times when we overcome the situation is extremely relieving and enjoyable.

However, I do hate getting killed by random survivors, so the game should penalize killing innocents. They should definitely leave the bandit skin in the game to distinguish PKers with non PKers, but should tweak the Morality system. Killing a survivor once should not effect you much just for when you need to self defense, but killing 3+ survivors should get heavily penalized. Also fixing up people should be very rewarding, while time should not cure your morality at all. It may be an engine limitation but killing off zombies that are targeting a different survivor should also reward morality points, which also encourages team play.

A lot of people are saying to get rid of bandit skin because you can become a bandit with self defense. Well the thing is that most bandits even now are just outright killers who kill any survivor on sight. Sure there is the occasional person who became a bandit because of killing a survivor who started shooting at him first, but its definitely not the majority. Just tweak the morality system in a way so you dont get penalized so much for killing someone who started shooting at you first. If you remove the bandit skin what will happen is the majority of the "bandits" will just start pretending to be friendly and shoot you when you turn your back, which is 300% more irritating than getting killed by a killer, and will definitely make less and less people play this great game.

[azrael72 28]

I like Egochek's idea. I'm not great at shooters (I was born without the FPS gene) to begin with and have only played one other (Combat Arms), but, I like the DayZ concept and have been trying it. It does suck quite a bit when I'm trying to learn the game and get picked off by a sniper upon spawn, or just trying to get across the road...after having waited an hour (often more) to get on the map.

I love battling the zombies though!!

I've never fired a shot at another player, not on purpose anyway, and can't seem to bring myself to. Then again, I'm not a sociopath. Even IRL i'd have to be directly threatened before even pulling my weapon. I guess I enter the coop mindset when I play this game. I've been shot for not typing 'Friendly' fast enough as well. Hard when you have 50 Zs chasing you through town and your hand/eye coord. is apparently subpar like mine.

I guess I'm on the fence. I understand that the real Zombie apocalypse would come with marauders, so it makes sense in that respect. As it is only a game, though, it would be nice to have a place for those who want to team up and just worry about surviving the Zs. Hell I can't even survive the Zs just to make it across map to join up with my hubby! Bandits? ....forget about it!:P

[number7 1]

I'm a new player, and these are my opinions on all this topic

Don't have a sign for bandits like a skin, don't give any indication that they are different from survivors. In a realistic scenario, if you chose to go down and help someone and they shot you afterwards for your stuff, you cant come whine on the forums about it.

I think this game already has a very good PvP system, the only weak point is the zombies are not scary enough at the moment. this is about pvp so i wont waste time talking about zombies here.

a major complaining point for players is that when they helped a wounded player, they got shot and had their stuff taken. These players are wimps and can't take dying. You need to learn through observation which players seem like friends and which will shoot you. if you see someone laying wounded in a field, you could question them before you approached, or better yet claim you have a sniper aiming at them concealed in cover nearby, so if you die they die (whether bluffing or not, doesnt matter).

Now if you actually did have a sniper, he could kill said betrayer and take your most valuable items back for you.

This shows an example of how groups of good players can work together instead of shooting on sight. Never go in without a back up plan. Always have as much information as possible.

groups of good players could band up, and inform each other on bandit locations. survivalist factions warring with bandit factions. In this the survivalists would have a better chance, since if i, as an impartial observer saw some wounded survivalists who needed help after killing bandits, i would go offer help because i know they will not shoot me. I would not extend the same offer to bandits who would shoot me for my gear afterwards.

If you shoot everyone on sight, you have no reason to complain when everyone shoots you on sight as well.

[m1lly 0]

My friend had an idea, put bandits in bright orange convict suits that stand out like a sore thumb!

[number7 1]

i agree, All bandits should have all equipment stripped from them, be in a bright orange convict suit and have a floating neon sign pointing at them saying 'I AM A BANDIT, SHOOT ME'

(side note - this game would be way boring without bandits)

[Lordtac 1]

Honestly, the system isn't very far off from being a solid PVP system, the humanity system makes it completely unfair for survivors, who can only shoot 50% of their targets (even if being shot at) or get turned into a bandit if they killed a survivor which as described above, would make them shoot on sight anyway.

A couple of my bigger issues with bandits are.

1- There camo helps them blend in better. Even at less then 100 meters, if a bandit were to stay mostly still, you'd never know he was hiding right under your feet in the grass without the menu scan trick. Its even worse at night if your unlucky enough to not have NVG's.

2- They can shoot 100% of their targets with little or no backlash, in fact, its more profitable then a survivor killing a bandit.

3- Even a terrible bandit can trick some poor sob into healing them with a blood-pack by pulling the "Self Defense" story, then cap them.

4- Having a machine gun/assault rifle is pointless when your being shot at from 500 meters away by a bandit with a sniper rifle... Why even have them if everyone dies in one shot anyway?

5- Survivors that are well off generally will not carry sniper rifles or sniper rifle ammo if their non-pvp, because their worried about the zombies. However, they will generally have an alice pack, 2 or 3 containers of food, 2 water bottles (at least), and most of the time a nearly full set of miscellaneous tools that they searched everywhere for.

Bandits, depending on how early or late you manage to kill them in their life span, will generally only have a sniper (M24 or CZ-550) a great deal of ammo for it, some food and medical supplies, a decent pistol, and maybe a few misc items early on. its unlikely that they'd carry certain misc items like toolbox's, or tents, some bandits refuse to carry alice packs because they apparently slow you down (I'm not sure about them slowing you down or not or by how much).

so... who would be more profitable to kill, the inexperienced non-PVP survivor with a non-pvp gun, a non-pvp mindset and decent or in some cases exceptionally good gear.

or the experienced PVP bandit with a PVP gun, a PVP mindset, and no or occasionally decent gear that may only be better then a starting survivor barely 1 hour after spawning.

Yes I do think bandits have it easier off.

No I don't hate PVP, it makes things interesting.

Yes I am a survivor.

and finally Yes, the current PVP system has made me stop playing DAYZ entirely until it is changed.

[fasthandz 7]

Honestly' date=' the system isn't very far off from being a solid PVP system, the humanity system makes it completely unfair for survivors, who can only shoot 50% of their targets (even if being shot at) or get turned into a bandit if they killed a survivor which as described above, would make them shoot on sight anyway.

A couple of my bigger issues with bandits are.

1- There camo helps them blend in better. Even at less then 100 meters, if a bandit were to stay mostly still, you'd never know he was hiding right under your feet in the grass without the menu scan trick. Its even worse at night if your unlucky enough to not have NVG's.

2- They can shoot 100% of their targets with little or no backlash, in fact, its more profitable then a survivor killing a bandit.

3- Even a terrible bandit can trick some poor sob into healing them with a blood-pack by pulling the "Self Defense" story, then cap them.

4- Having a machine gun/assault rifle is pointless when your being shot at from 500 meters away by a bandit with a sniper rifle... Why even have them if everyone dies in one shot anyway?

5- Survivors that are well off generally will not carry sniper rifles or sniper rifle ammo if their non-pvp, because their worried about the zombies. However, they will generally have an alice pack, 2 or 3 containers of food, 2 water bottles (at least), and most of the time a nearly full set of miscellaneous tools that they searched everywhere for.

Bandits, depending on how early or late you manage to kill them in their life span, will generally only have a sniper (M24 or CZ-550) a great deal of ammo for it, some food and medical supplies, a decent pistol, and maybe a few misc items early on. its unlikely that they'd carry certain misc items like toolbox's, or tents, some bandits refuse to carry alice packs because they apparently slow you down (I'm not sure about them slowing you down or not or by how much).

so... who would be more profitable to kill, the inexperienced non-PVP survivor with a non-pvp gun, a non-pvp mindset and decent or in some cases exceptionally good gear.

or the experienced PVP bandit with a PVP gun, a PVP mindset, and no or occasionally decent gear that may only be better then a starting survivor barely 1 hour after spawning.

Yes I do think bandits have it easier off.

No I don't hate PVP, it makes things interesting.

Yes I am a survivor.

and finally Yes, the current PVP system has made me stop playing DAYZ entirely until it is changed.

[/quote']

stop being such an easy target. Delicious tears.

[Lordtac 1]

stop being such an easy target. Delicious tears.

What does that have to do with anything? let alone PVP.

[~Ren~ 0]

If you shoot everyone on sight' date=' you have no reason to complain when everyone shoots you on sight as well.[/quote']

That's a good post but the last point you made is very true.

I've not pulled the trigger once and I've been in a lot of situations with another survivor where we're pointing a weapon at each other, all I have to do is pull the trigger as they do too yet on every occasion the other player and I have walked away after looting.

Pulling the trigger is easy, anyone can do that but thinking before you do takes a lot more self control.

[callousdisregard 2]

I personally never killed a survivor unless they started firing at me and never turned into a bandit before' date=' but I think the PvP is an important factor in the game and should stay. The main reason behind this is that I usually play with my buddies and the tense situation and communication between us during the engagement with a sniper etc is something you cant experience in any other game, and the times when we overcome the situation is extremely relieving and enjoyable.

However, I do hate getting killed by random survivors, so the game should penalize killing innocents. They should definitely leave the bandit skin in the game to distinguish PKers with non PKers, but should tweak the Morality system. Killing a survivor once should not effect you much just for when you need to self defense, but killing 3+ survivors should get heavily penalized. Also fixing up people should be very rewarding, while time should not cure your morality at all. It may be an engine limitation but killing off zombies that are targeting a different survivor should also reward morality points, which also encourages team play.

A lot of people are saying to get rid of bandit skin because you can become a bandit with self defense. [b']Well the thing is that most bandits even now are just outright killers who kill any survivor on sight. Sure there is the occasional person who became a bandit because of killing a survivor who started shooting at him first, but its definitely not the majority. Just tweak the morality system in a way so you dont get penalized so much for killing someone who started shooting at you first. If you remove the bandit skin what will happen is the majority of the "bandits" will just start pretending to be friendly and shoot you when you turn your back, which is 300% more irritating than getting killed by a killer, and will definitely make less and less people play this great game.

and exactly how is it you know so much abut the motivations of some 10 thousand people ?

It sounds like you are talking out of your ass but expect people to act as if your words come from on high.

---

"Or you could just make a few Non-PVP "Carebear" servers and be done with it. There's no need for intense debate over morality here' date=' other game companies figured this out a long time ago.

Make Non-PVP, PVP, and Hardcore servers available, then tag the character the player has so they cant "Server hop" to a from a carebear to PVP server without having to get new equipment once they are there. Super easy peasy chicken greasy, and the game isnt "Ruined" for anyone... done. "

[b']I know I'll sound like a douche for this, but the game experience would be slightly damaged for PvPers. Killing carebears is more fun than killing people who want to kill me.

Killing people who do not want to be killed is fun. Go ahead and hate me.

Despite that, I still ask "friendly" and help people out once in awhile. Just depends on my mood. And I'm friendly 100% of the time if I'm sure the other guy has a huge advantage over me (like Winchester vs DMR at long range).

Without this guy, being a carebear is meaningless.

You cannot have good without evil or chocolate without peanut butter, it upsets the balance of the universe.

---

My friend had an idea' date=' put bandits in bright orange convict suits that stand out like a sore thumb!

[/quote']

Does your "friend" were a bicycle helmet even when he is in the house ?

---

If you shoot everyone on sight' date=' you have no reason to complain when everyone shoots you on sight as well.[/quote']

That's a good post but the last point you made is very true.

I've not pulled the trigger once and I've been in a lot of situations with another survivor where we're pointing a weapon at each other, all I have to do is pull the trigger as they do too yet on every occasion the other player and I have walked away after looting.

Pulling the trigger is easy, anyone can do that but thinking before you do takes a lot more self control.

But but but ....that is impossible. All the experts in the thread have clearly stated, as a true fact, that this game will degenerate into a deathmatch if their suggestions are not treated with the same respect as a Papal Bull.

I think you must be mistaken in how you dealt with other players because if you aren't mistaken then it must mean the "experts" couldn't find their own ass with map, 2 hands and a GPS.

[Dinnj 4]

PvE carebear servers are a bad idea. The point of a survival sim is that people have dfifering motives and morality. Just like in real life (As we can see from the vastly different opinions in this thread).

Splitting the player base destroys that concept utterly. We have all the carebear type people in a world where everyone who is desperate or ruthless enough to exploit others have been magically wiped out by rainbow juice, spending all day hugging. We then have the server where all the good people from the world have been expelled by all the testosterone emenating from the PvPers.

Splitting the player base up like that is a horribly bad idea. Makes the game waaaaaay less interesting.

[IDex (DayZ) 4]

I would probably be classified as a "carebear" as I tend to help people in need quite easily and have never killed anyone. None the less, artificial restraint on killing basically cuts of choices you have when you encounter a person. Survivor will be punished for taking the shot with a life long stigma and bandits pretty much had to either shoot survivors or run off as any survivor who had any survival instinct would shoot on sight or run off.

Everyone is a bandit and everyone is a survivor. This brought me one of my tensest moments in the game today as I saw a person in bushes near my location but didn't have any idea whether to run, or hide until they were gone. If we still had skins I could have calmly left the area without any worries if they turned out to be "survivor" as this would have meant that there was a 95% chance that I wouldn't have gotten shot in the back.

I expect to meet some great situations and worthwhile with the current mechanic.

[Arnoldio 2]

ANd i say this here, spawntime of 12-24 hours would reduce the amount of PVPing, 100% sure.

[Dinnj 4]

Seeing as how people PvP for safety reasons as well, I'd say no.

100% sure it would reduce the player base significantly.

Look at avg time people stay alive. Add the idea of adding 12/24 hr respawn cooldowns. Sounds like a shit game.

[callousdisregard 2]

Seeing as how people PvP for safety reasons as well' date=' I'd say no.

100% sure it would reduce the player base significantly.

Look at avg time people stay alive. Add the idea of adding 12/24 hr respawn cooldowns. Sounds like a shit game.

[/quote']

I think he was being sarcastic.

[Arnoldio 2]

I was not sarcastic at all. With such respawn, people would stick together for safety, like in real life.

It would reduce the playerbase ofcourse. The kids would fly off in an instant, true players would stay.

Avg time of life would increase, everyone would want to stay alive, again like in real life.

See, if this shit happened IRL, you, me, pretty much everybody would go cry in a corner waiting for it to stop. Behind a screen, in a game, with no punishment whatsoever, everybody is a brave hero or mass murderer.

[no1453@gmail.com 0]

Ultimately' date=' the choice is down to the player...there are many ways of surviving, and some people have chosen the PvP path. We cannot hold it against them, as it cannot be proven to be better or worse than any other way.

Very interesting, however; the community started as friendly and helpful, and is now distrusting and dishonest. Much like the "Lord of the Flies" story. It's evolution, baby!

[/quote']

I've been playing for a couple of weeks now, and lately it seems like I'm being murdered quit a bit. I estimate %80 of the time I encounter another player they attempt to kill me. If this my bad luck? I need to come up with some ideas about it, I know, but it would make gameplay a little more engaging if it wasn't so attractive to kill another player (and grab all their supplies, which I think is most of the motivation. Scavanging is hard; killing someone is easy). Part of the fun of online gaming is interacting with other people, POP POP POP I'm dead over and over isn't much of an interaction.

[phienyx 14]

I agree that there does need to be PvP in this game. I would not suggest removing it. However I would strongly suggest including mechanics that reward working together to survive and penalize (more significantly) those who are just out to kill any and everyone they come across. Perhaps make it much more risky for solo players or small groups so people feel the need to locate or build larger groups of people to give them a better chance of survival.

I've read alot of comments to the effect of "this is a wasteland and that's just how its going to be". That is just a lame attempt to excuse being an asshole in an online game. First off, Zombies should be the primary active threat. Maybe they should be a little more of a threat than they are now? Bandits should exist, but they shouldn't always shouldn't be the primary threat. If you were to find yourself in a similar situation, needing to survive and alone, I serioulsy doubt you'd be going around killing everyone you see and taking their shit. (Perhaps some of you would) but this shouldn't be the primary method of play here.

I guess what I'm saying is that simply player killing should not be the goal for most players and it should not be so easily a viable way to play the game. It should have larger negative consequences and the primary goal should be surviving the environment and the zombies.

[kaffaljidhma 1]

There's a new PVP game in town, and it's called Zombie Training. What you do is get a really loud gun and fire it in a crowded town, then start the running of the bulls to the next town and watch for sightings of juicy survivors, bandits, whatever. Once you spot them, and they of course start shooting at you, zigzag towards them with your zombie army and watch as the AI priority falls straight on the unlucky predator. After the zombies have finished eating, throw a flare to distract, loot the body or don't, who cares, you don't need anything but the occasional food and bandage, then pick up the horde and move on to the next town.

Only people sure of their aim will try to snipe you, and if they miss, all you need to do is go within hearing range of their obviously loud weapon to let the zombies do their work. If they duck inside a building, it's a guaranteed death sentence, as you can run in circles around the place firing a Lee Enfield into the air and the zombies will still prefer to shamble into the building to get at the desperate meat grinder within. Force a disconnect and you'll guarantee that person won't be back anytime soon.

Zombies can run through walls and aren't fooled by cover, they'll wait patiently while you eat and drink in a barn before resuming your run, and they're never out of ammunition. All you need to master this army is a good middle finger - stay on the roads, dodge and weave just a little to throw off snipers, and watch as you wreak carnage on groups of six coordinated players without ever firing a shot or losing humanity. According to the game, I'm a saint, even though I cause 5 or so deaths every time I run through Cherno.

[Toll 1]

Zombies are not always the primary threat.

Meeting other humans in a apocalyptic world is a far, far greater then then anything else.

This game has that feeling and it must stay, as that is one of the biggest charms of the game.

The reason why many people kill now is two fold.

1. The risk/reward situation greatly favours the kill-on-sight people. There is almost no reason to need another person. Transfusions are about the only thing I can think of.

2. The punishment for death is restarting with a bit of gear in a random spot.

Some of you propose a 12hr respawn mechanic or similar, this will GREATLY impact on the kill-on-sight situation. You think it is bad now? Imagine if you couldn't play for 12hr's because you tried to salute. Not only that but I can see players leave in great numbers. No-one wants to be kicked out of a game for 12hr because some douche shot them in the middle of the forest for no reason. That would turn people away from this game easily. Bad idea.

I think something along the lines of this would be better:

A. When a player dies, the gear they respawn in is reduced for a period of time. If they die again, the gear is less. To the point of spawning with nothing, not even a canteen. One of the first things to go should be ammo, then the gun. Then food & water and so forth.

After 6 hours of no deaths, slowly increase their gear upon next spawn. The end effect is that if you don't play for 12-24hrs you spawn with normal starting gear.

B. Every time you kill a player, your starting gear is reduced next spawn. If you kill 3 or 4 for instance, your next spawn will be nothing starting in the middle of a forest. No amount of time will reset this. You will be punished for killing people, just not in your current life.

This aspect should be further investigated. The punishment for killing other humans should be a big factor on the next character you play. The more honorable you are, the better the equipment or starting location and so on., although I think punishing the kills should be looked into first.

This would at the least cause people to be more cautious, particularly if they have died recently or not, sucks to start without a gun.

As for the risk/reward of solo play, that will need to be further built upon. More mechanics such as blood transfusions would help, however I fear the engine may be limited in what it can do in that area.

[callousdisregard 2]

Another player that can't hack it wants to change the game completely.

What a fucking surprise.

Let me give you a clue .....people who shoot you aren't assholes or douches, they are players in DayZ.

In DayZ we get to shoot whoever we want and if that is you, tough shit.

If you want to play without PvP, go to another game.

What is so fucking hard to understand about that ?

24 hours to get your gear back ?

The mod would die in week or less.

If you can't stand the heat, do us all a favor and get the fuck out of the kitchen !

---

There's a new PVP game in town' date=' and it's called Zombie Training. What you do is get a really loud gun and fire it in a crowded town, then start the running of the bulls to the next town and watch for sightings of juicy survivors, bandits, whatever. Once you spot them, and they of course start shooting at you, zigzag towards them with your zombie army and watch as the AI priority falls straight on the unlucky predator. After the zombies have finished eating, throw a flare to distract, loot the body or don't, who cares, you don't need anything but the occasional food and bandage, then pick up the horde and move on to the next town.

Only people sure of their aim will try to snipe you, and if they miss, all you need to do is go within hearing range of their obviously loud weapon to let the zombies do their work. If they duck inside a building, it's a guaranteed death sentence, as you can run in circles around the place firing a Lee Enfield into the air and the zombies will still prefer to shamble into the building to get at the desperate meat grinder within. Force a disconnect and you'll guarantee that person won't be back anytime soon.

Zombies can run through walls and aren't fooled by cover, they'll wait patiently while you eat and drink in a barn before resuming your run, and they're never out of ammunition. All you need to master this army is a good middle finger - stay on the roads, dodge and weave just a little to throw off snipers, and watch as you wreak carnage on groups of six coordinated players without ever firing a shot or losing humanity. According to the game, I'm a saint, even though I cause 5 or so deaths every time I run through Cherno.

[/quote']

What server please ?

You see, I am not a sniper. I am a rifleman and I will keep firing until I hit you and your army devours you. So you go ahead and zig-zag all you want, but I will still hit at least once and that's all it takes.