The PvP Discussion Thread

[puppetmasterjjk 3]

Turkey, I believe the situation you describe over and over is completely fictional. If so many people really did play the game in the way that you always describe it, then even I would start to have complaints and suggest "balance" changes.

Edit: The only time I've had a problem with someone's behavior in the game was when someone was freaking out in side chat like this kid:

I can understand the frustration, but you don't need to spam the entire server just because you had a bad break.

[Bandit (DayZ) 3]

Just make a server that has no friendly fire and call it a day.

I think this will be the best solution for the carebears. I will not be wasting bandwidth hosting one tho.

[bodycount 83]

The limits you perceive are placed there by you' date=' so go and break them and have fun.

[/quote']

I WANT PvP.

I WANT competition.

I WANT the limits placed to be because of the Zombie Apocalypse.

I want the bomb planting/attack/defend to be the narrative already in the game. I want the food/water/guns/ammo to be kind of as scarce as the cars.

Why is a car so bad ass in DayZ? Because it is easy to get? Because there is a car in every barn?

Make items stop magically respawning over and over. Once a town is cleared out of goodies it won't respawn ever (until server restart).

That bandit will have a reason to kill a person. Not to kill for the fuck of it, for the lulz but because they HAVE to kill. Because a bandit can't risk going into town and fighting both zombies and the survivors that kill them on sight. They are starving. Thirsty. Low on ammo. There only chance at life is that straggler not keeping up with the rest of the group. He might have some beans or a couple of mags on him.

Southern towns will get cleared out of supplies early on. People have to push north to keep clearing out towns and cities. Ammo gets low. Guns are in short order. Out of food, getting hungry. Desperation sets in. Lets check that town way out there that we have never been to. Trade would mean 1000% more. It would mean life and death.

It is what literally drove the Road. They left the northern airfields because it wasn't respawning items for them anymore. Nothing was left. So they pushed to the noob bean coast. Unfortunately the bean coast was used up as well. Then the bandit tried to jack the boy but pops was like HELL NO you no gank us.

It is what drove the entire Mad Max series. AND YOU GUYS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE AUSSIES? DAT JUICE! DAT PRECIOUS JUICE! Dinki Di motherfucker!

Magically respawning items are a bane not a boon to this game. I hear ALL of this talk about realism and simulation. Well you can throw that right the fuck out the window when you can camp a spot and have shit endlessly respawn and you never have to travel anywhere.

[swayzesghost 14]

I don't agree. There are practical ways to decide whether a particular action was a "murder" and not just a kill. Just because I didn't bother to expound on the design possibility doesn't mean that there is none.

I too would like to know how you would propose that is accomplished. The way your original post reads it just says "PK". Over half the people that play this game now wear the bandit skin from PK' date=' many of them from simply shooting first or being a better shot than the bandit that tried to do them in. If "PK" alone is your only qualifier then over half of the people playing this game would die with a single bullet from anything.

[/quote']

Add a way to declare friendly to another player. If I am friendly I cannot damage them. They can still damage me. It's not a two way street. If a player kills a friendly player, however, it is a murder.

Lots of things could be done server-side with client positions/view positions etc that are already being checked as part of the anti-cheat. You could go so far as to measure whether a player actually aimed at a player, or even saw them at any point.

Don't say "it can't be done". Challenge yourselves. Think about how you would do it. There are so many ideas that could be implemented...Many of them good and sound.

---

Make every player's life valuable, every time. This is a big part of the problem. People do not engage in sociopathic behavior in real life like they do in video games because, in real life, simply put, someone will kill you for threatening the group. However, the tables are turned in the game, where sociopathic behavior allows you to become more powerful than normal people.

Something has to be done to make life valuable, like in real life. Here's a preliminary idea..Just a suggestion off the top of my head. You too are full of good ones. I believe in you, DayZ players.

Make every player start with information. The information cannot be transferred off the character or taken in any way. If you don't voluntarily give someone your information, they can never have it. Information could be:

torn up pieces of a map detailing a cache location

a torn piece of paper with a safe combination. someone else has the other piece with the location of the safe.

Your character has memorized access codes to a certain bunker and only he can open the door out of everyone on the server.

etc, etc, etc. I've never seen this idea suggested, it could be beautifully implemented with some thought. It'd spawn a new meta-game within the game of trying to find, protect, and use valuable information assets. And maybe, just maybe, that bandit will consider kidnapping a guy instead of shooting him dead for no reason. The game grows, evolves, becomes more complex and better.

[R Lee 0]

Did someone say that people who play this are mature? I finally digressed and said "screw it" if everyone else is going to kill everyone then I'm going to kill anyone who points a gun at me.

The thing is I COULDN'T DO IT. I accidentally came face to face with another survivor in one of the cites. Actually, I could have shot him in the back before he saw me, but I couldn't bring myself to do it. I tried to back out when I thought I hadn't been seen only to have him circle the building and when I turned he shot me.

I am one of those 40 year old, real world combat veterans and I just don't see how you guys get your jollies going around shooting people for no reason. I understand the fear of being killed making someone trigger happy, but shooting someone just to be a dick? Setting traps at loot points? I was even crossing an open field once when some guy alerted me on chat that he was watching me. Two seconds later he shot me with a hunting rifle.

Stop kidding yourselves, this is no social experiment. Until you've been in a high threat situation you don't know what you would do. These killers are just getting their jollies the same way tkers did when Counter Strike came along. When they would turn off FF they would just block doors to be a dick.

If it were a social experiment many of you could be classified as maladjusted nut jobs.

[The Burned Man 20]

Just make a server that has no friendly fire and call it a day.

I think this will be the best solution for the carebears. I will not be wasting bandwidth hosting one tho.

That is no solution if they can simply switch servers after they picked up their gear without any kind of risk.

[Bandit (DayZ) 3]

Id say let them have the best things they can in a coop only server, wont make a bit of difference to me. Might help the players counts too.

PS also the beta is said to use its own DB so they can do what they want.

[Jeff (DayZ) 1]

So we're all in agreement it's the players that are killing for the fun of it, not the mechanics of the game (well, not to a big degree) that are the problem?

Aside from some complaints about gear spawns being too centered around a few areas, the only real issues anybody has put forth is about those folk who get their rocks off by randomly killing everybody. Outside of that, I don't think many people would claim PVP for gear, food, meds, ammo, etc is a bad idea.

If you do, you're an idiot.

[swayzesghost 14]

But nobody is suggesting non-PVP servers, that wouldn't solve anything. There is just a logical and mature coalition of players that wants to see less sociopathic murder in the game and more cooperation.

What reasons can you give *for* the ability to murder other players relentlessly? How is it good for game design or for the overall experience? Because it's "hardcore"? That's not a reason.

[Bandit (DayZ) 3]

So we're all in agreement it's the players that are killing for the fun of it' date=' not the mechanics of the game (well, not to a big degree) that are the problem?

Aside from some complaints about gear spawns being too centered around a few areas, the only real issues anybody has put forth is about those folk who get their rocks off by randomly killing everybody. Outside of that, I don't think many people would claim PVP for gear, food, meds, ammo, etc is a bad idea.

If you do, you're an idiot.

[/quote']

I dont find that a problem, and I also can promise you any gear you find at the airports is also ALL around the map in specific places. You guys just havnt figured it out.

[flacracker 0]

How about a strict role playing server? No shooting people for no reasons. You need to have contact with the people you kill. There should also be a group/faction system so that people can band together and have wars stuff.

[Bandit (DayZ) 3]

How about a strict role playing server? No shooting people for no reasons. You need to have contact with the people you kill. There should also be a group/faction system so that people can band together and have wars stuff.

The groups option is coming soon afik, the wars thing is another story. There are no rules in war, and you can plan on snipers killing you while you eat your lunch

[swayzesghost 14]

How about a strict role playing server? No shooting people for no reasons. You need to have contact with the people you kill. There should also be a group/faction system so that people can band together and have wars stuff.

I think we're trying to avoid fragmenting the player base as much as possible though, especially this early in development. Good idea though.

[The Burned Man 20]

What reasons can you give *for* the ability to murder other players relentlessly? How is it good for game design or for the overall experience? Because it's "hardcore"? That's not a reason.

It makes things more realistic.

Apocalypse is the end of civilization.

It's like war².

[Jeff (DayZ) 1]

So we're all in agreement it's the players that are killing for the fun of it' date=' not the mechanics of the game (well, not to a big degree) that are the problem?

Aside from some complaints about gear spawns being too centered around a few areas, the only real issues anybody has put forth is about those folk who get their rocks off by randomly killing everybody. Outside of that, I don't think many people would claim PVP for gear, food, meds, ammo, etc is a bad idea.

If you do, you're an idiot.

[/quote']

I dont find that a problem, and I also can promise you any gear you find at the airports is also ALL around the map in specific places. You guys just havnt figured it out.

Fair enough.

We're in agreement about the main point of that post, then?

The problem here is everybody is asking for mechanics to control the dudes who kill everybody for the fun of it. Why can't we patrol that? A "killed by" thing would do well if somebody is getting X kills over Y time on people, and the community itself can bring forth players they deem problematic, no?

[oktyabr 53]

No, no additional mechanics to control it... and I say that knowing full well I have lots of posts in support of not only the "bandit skin" but an even more complex system along the same lines.

What needs to happen is to adjust the rest of the game so turkey shooting bean carriers on the beach is just a dream of the "good ol days". NOW it gets real. So real that another bandit will shoot the sociopath with the sniper rifle, getting his lulz, just because it's a waste of precious ammo. Stupid n00b.

As some one else said earlier in this thread, make fighting the zombies (it IS a "zombie apocolypse" after all) so much more a focus of activity that no one has time to worry about blasting other people for the fun of it.

[Thoric 2]

I hope the DayZ team won't make compromises about the PvP. It's the main drawing point of the game. Look at this:

This right here, at the moment, is not available in any other MMO. You can grind mobs and hoard gear and team up to "raid", and kill each other with no consequences in instanced battlegrounds, but you don't have this.

The PK, the anti-PK, the risk and reward, I love it, and I've missed it for so long. If you don't like it - quit the game. There are much better PvE-oriented titles for you to play, but there are a scarce few like this.

[sorophx 25]

I don't want to play video games with people who want to ruin others' fun. In reality' date=' people who commit antisocial behavior are excluded. So we need to make that happen in the game as well.

[/quote']

personally, I fully support this statement. I like the feeling of having to be aware of your surroundings at all times. but people who play the mod just to ruin somebody's day, have to be punished

[bonetopick 0]

IMO there should be no repercussions for random murder.

The repercussion is people learn not to trust you and will shoot you.

[B4N3 0]

I hope the DayZ team won't make compromises about the PvP. It's the main drawing point of the game. Look at this:

This right here' date=' at the moment, is not available in any other MMO. You can grind mobs and hoard gear and team up to "raid", and kill each other with no consequences in instanced battlegrounds, but you don't have this.

The PK, the anti-PK, the risk and reward, I love it, and I've missed it for so long. If you don't like it - quit the game. There are much better PvE-oriented titles for you to play, but there are a scarce few like this.

[/quote']

I could sing a song but instead I'll say....

THIIIIIIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[oktyabr 53]

What compromises could possibly be made? Either a game is PVP or it's not.

[jacobite 1]

This mod in its entirety is a learning cycle based on user experiences.

You choose to trust someone and they betray you. Do you trust more people?

Never before have you as players probably lost so much in a game.

Gone are your 15 second re-spawn timers with 10-20 second walks into battle with full gear.

Dying costs in this game and it excites me.

Its survival at its finest. You have to manage your food and water intake while orientating yourself to your surroundings while also having to worry about ammo for guns to kill zombies and possibly players.

In a post apocalyptic world were food and supplies are scarce are you even mildly surprised someone is going to kill you for your pain medication or your beans?

If the game wasn't built around players being able to possibly kill other players we wouldn't be able to hurt each other. Once you accept that you realise that yes you have some ethical issues to work around but it really is just survival.

Why do people go to the military camps or the airfields? To get better guns.

Why?

So they can kill zombies more easily?

No no no... they could already do that with the Winchester very easily. Power. More power and range to kill players who have lesser weapons.

Why sneak through a town for 20 minutes plus when you can reap the rewards of another leaving said town?

[Panzerfaust (DayZ) 5]

Of course it has a bearing on the issue. The concentration of sociopaths in this mod grow because they are willing to kill but are rarely killed themselves. The non-bandits like myself (I haven't shot a player since the bandit skin was introduced) get killed and respawn. Some of them in turn become bandits. The bandit population grows' date=' the non-bandit one does not. Unrealistic.

[/quote']

Bandit skins and actual bandits are two different things. I know several people who have become bandits through self-defense and who certainly do not act like highwaymen all the time.

The humanity system needs to allow for more murders before people make the full transition to bandits. That way you would be better able to single out the full blown gun toting loonies versus the guy who shot one or two people in self-defense.

The population of non-bandits and the population of actual bandits can't really be compared because the humanity system as it is isn't an effective indicator of the choices someone makes in that regard.

[Lusmu 0]

My two cents:

I don't feel player killing is in itself a problem, but the fact that you can't really defend yourself or even take revenge is.

I have so far been killed four times by other players, twice I admit I was being careless, but for the other two times I can't imagine what I could have done any better. It was one shot kill from behind every time, so no change to shoot back, and no idea who it was. Personally, I don't mind that happening every now and then, but I can understand why someone would have his playing experience ruined when hours of progress are erased in a second by a distant sniper or a random encounter - several times in a row.

Here's a couple of ideas:

1. Make PvP combat slightly less lethal, to give the player under attack a change to react (maybe make weapons less accurate or players less vulnerable to firearms)

2. Some way to recognize players. X was killed by Y message would be nice. I don't know how you could implement player recognition in ArmA, but some way to tell players apart would go a long way in determining how to react when you see another player.

All in all, I would like to give non-murdering players a fighting chance, not to penalize murderers.

[alienfreak 6]

My two cents:

I don't feel player killing is in itself a problem' date=' but the fact that you can't really defend yourself or even take revenge is.

I have so far been killed four times by other players, twice I admit I was being careless, but for the other two times I can't imagine what I could have done any better. It was one shot kill from behind every time, so no change to shoot back, and no idea who it was. Personally, I don't mind that happening every now and then, but I can understand why someone would have his playing experience ruined when hours of progress are erased in a second by a distant sniper or a random encounter - several times in a row.

Here's a couple of ideas:

1. Make PvP combat slightly less lethal, to give the player under attack a change to react (maybe make weapons less accurate or players less vulnerable to firearms)

2. Some way to recognize players. X was killed by Y message would be nice. I don't know how you could implement player recognition in ArmA, but some way to tell players apart would go a long way in determining how to react when you see another player.

All in all, I would like to give non-murdering players a fighting chance, not to penalize murderers.

[/quote']

You already need an insane amount of assault rifle bullets to kill someone.

I shot one guy 3 times in the chest from 30 meters with an M4. He still found the time to lay down and aim at me. I shot him 3 more times. 2 times in the head and once in the shoulder. He finally died.