The PvP Discussion Thread

[AmPm 0]

I think the simplest solution is to just make scoped rifles much harder to get. Want to PvP? Do it at 100-300m over iron sights unless you want to spend your time heading north to loot.

[Kophka 109]

I think it's a thing that would be awesome to warn players in the immediate vicinity that they need to be cautious. KOPHKA CAN SEE YOU!!!

TKJ

I'm totally stealing that for my siggy, TKJ. :D

[kanrath 0]

I love the whole idea that people would mass murder dozens of people just because they saw them in this situation in rl. To that I call shenanagins. The average human mind could not handle killing people openly and often, those who become soldiers do so expecting to have an identifiable enemy and when they end up fighting like they are now in Afghanistan they don't choose to shoot civilians even though it's quite possible they are the enemy because the idea of killing people simply because of a possibility is not something the human mind could handle. Psychopaths do what they do because of mental degradation and miladies of the mind and even then they have limits to who and what they kill.

So no, I bet if I threw you into Afghanistan with an American marine unit you would not simply kill everyone you saw even though they could be an enemy.

And you know why? Because 1: Even sociopaths have rules and 2: Your no sociopath and 3: You don't get a re spawn like you do here, if you started trying to kill everyone you saw chances are you would fail unless you have often shot real guns and on top of that unlike the game it is likely you would be dealing with a very limited number of survivors who would quickly identify you and let other survivors know about you and then if you had been trying to kill other survivors chances are someone better then you would put you down like the the rabid dog you were and that would be it, no re do, no re spawn. You're dead enjoy your trip to hell in a handbasket.

So yea, shenanigans.

Honestly bandits wouldn't be such a big deal if it were not for the 40+ thousand different players that could pass through a server every week. If you only had 50-100 and those didn't change very often murderers would be identified quickly and everyone would keep an eye out for them. Here you just switch servers. I have no problem with bandits that hunt a couple players a day when they get low on supplies, sure it's still messed up but at least it's supportive of conflict on the server. Those who kill 30+ players often when not needing a single thing from them are not supportive of the conflict on the server nor of the game. And like someone said, you could just as easily avoid players but you choose not to, you choose to set up somewhere with high traffic, you choose to carry an enfield or cz and you choose to shoot everyone that moves. Don't make it out like some self righteous self defense because it's not, it's the instincts of a COD player taking over and turning the game into an FFA deathmatch.

[Dinnj 4]

The average human mind can't handle it? Are you sure?

Are you totally naive to all the horrible shit humanity has done since we crawled out of the mud? You are either fine with murder or not. There is no quantity. If you justify it once you are justifying the same concept ad infinitum. I garantuee you if you locked two men in a room and convinced them that if one did not kill the other, they'd literally be clawing chunks out of eachother before you would believe.

America was fine when they nuked Japan, twice. Most Germans were psychologically stable during and after the holocaust. Were those not pretty brutal? When our ancestors constantly bashed competing males over the head with stones until their craniums burst and raped their women, do you think they stopped because they were overcome with guilt and depression? When medieval factions raided villages, slit hostages' throats and raped their wives infront of them? Whatever, man.

If you'd shot real guns you'd know you wouldn't fail to kill poeple EASILY on sight. You pick up a rifle and point it, use the sights, and your target is probably going to drop. We've come a long way over the years and our weapons tech is PRETTY good. (Even the AK 47 is accurate as hell to decent range. BTW, the most common weapon you'd probably find in Russia, I think there are 30mil+ of them?). IRL, when dealing with a limited number of survivors, and you shoot them. They die, they don't tell any one. Too many assumptions. This is based on your weird as fuck theory that, after you kill someone, a magical omniscient band of IRL PvE carebears will patrol the VAST countryside for some kind of abstract revenge.

"HEY THEY KILLED THIS GUY, AND BECAUSE WE SEE EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE WE'RE GOING TO SPEND OUR INCREDIBLY LIMITED RESOURCES HUNTING AN ARMED, POSSIBLY SOCIOPATHIC, DANGEROUS AND HARD TO FIND INDIVIDUAL."

If you're smoking something please PM me. I am interested.

Hell isn't real, death isn't that much worse than living in post-apocalyptic Russia, I'll do it my way thanks. This is also implying that, what, being overly trusting and carebear mode is going to make you last longer... looking at people's survival rates I'm going to disagree there.

Logically, I have personally deduced, from my OWN theories and opinions, and my observation on this mod and from human history, that my way of shooting people on sight is much safer than you assume.

If this situation happened in real life, and I really thought behaving like this (And I do) would be the BEST chance for me to survive...

Do you honestly think I wouldn't do it? Would you really come up to me to offer food and ask to trade things with me and expect me NOT to but a bullet in your head if I have rationally worked out that you're not worth the risk (Everyone in this mod is armed with guns.)? Of course I will, if I really think my chances will be that much better I'm gunning you down, even if you've reached a different conclusion, that's not going to stop the lead.

[jtg811 0]

I shoot to kill anyone who sees me and confronts me that's not my friend. Just the other night I was working with a guy for about two minutes before popping him in the head after he turned around because I had no food left. My needs are more important than others' unless I've known and trusted them for a long time.

[Infinite Monkeys 0]

How to play DayZ:

Step 1: Shoot survivors

Step 2: Steal and eat their beans

Step 3: Repeat

[The Killing Joke 43]

How to play DayZ:

Step 1: Shoot survivors

Step 2: Steal and eat their beans

Step 3: Repeat

Oh ye, of limited foresight. You have, what, three posts to your name? Read along, and see all the things the cool kids are doing! This game is amazing, once you get past the tunnel vision that most players seem to exhibit.

TKJ

[DJKhaled 3]

I love the whole idea that people would mass murder dozens of people just because they saw them in this situation in rl. To that I call shenanagins. The average human mind could not handle killing people openly and often' date=' those who become soldiers do so expecting to have an identifiable enemy and when they end up fighting like they are now in Afghanistan they don't choose to shoot civilians even though it's quite possible they are the enemy because the idea of killing people simply because of a possibility is not something the human mind could handle. Psychopaths do what they do because of mental degradation and miladies of the mind and even then they have limits to who and what they kill.

So no, I bet if I threw you into Afghanistan with an American marine unit you would not simply kill everyone you saw even though they could be an enemy.

And you know why? Because 1: Even sociopaths have rules and 2: Your no sociopath and 3: You don't get a re spawn like you do here, if you started trying to kill everyone you saw chances are you would fail unless you have often shot real guns and on top of that unlike the game it is likely you would be dealing with a very limited number of survivors who would quickly identify you and let other survivors know about you and then if you had been trying to kill other survivors chances are someone better then you would put you down like the the rabid dog you were and that would be it, no re do, no re spawn. You're dead enjoy your trip to hell in a handbasket.

So yea, shenanigans.

Honestly bandits wouldn't be such a big deal if it were not for the 40+ thousand different players that could pass through a server every week. If you only had 50-100 and those didn't change very often murderers would be identified quickly and everyone would keep an eye out for them. Here you just switch servers. I have no problem with bandits that hunt a couple players a day when they get low on supplies, sure it's still messed up but at least it's supportive of conflict on the server. Those who kill 30+ players often when not needing a single thing from them are not supportive of the conflict on the server nor of the game. And like someone said, you could just as easily avoid players but you choose not to, you choose to set up somewhere with high traffic, you choose to carry an enfield or cz and you choose to shoot everyone that moves. Don't make it out like some self righteous self defense because it's not, it's the instincts of a COD player taking over and turning the game into an FFA deathmatch.

[/quote']

People kill each other for Nike shoes these days and for cheap stuff on Black Friday

You don't think people would murder each other during an apocalypse where you couldn't find food and water and were starving?

[deadbolt (DayZ) 10]

i figured with 3 posts he must be playing the game a lot more, maybe shooting survivors and eating their beans is more fun for him than all the other things you were thinking of

---

I love the whole idea that people would mass murder dozens of people just because they saw them in this situation in rl. To that I call shenanagins. The average human mind could not handle killing people openly and often' date=' those who become soldiers do so expecting to have an identifiable enemy and when they end up fighting like they are now in Afghanistan they don't choose to shoot civilians even though it's quite possible they are the enemy because the idea of killing people simply because of a possibility is not something the human mind could handle. Psychopaths do what they do because of mental degradation and miladies of the mind and even then they have limits to who and what they kill.

So no, I bet if I threw you into Afghanistan with an American marine unit you would not simply kill everyone you saw even though they could be an enemy.

And you know why? Because 1: Even sociopaths have rules and 2: Your no sociopath and 3: You don't get a re spawn like you do here, if you started trying to kill everyone you saw chances are you would fail unless you have often shot real guns and on top of that unlike the game it is likely you would be dealing with a very limited number of survivors who would quickly identify you and let other survivors know about you and then if you had been trying to kill other survivors chances are someone better then you would put you down like the the rabid dog you were and that would be it, no re do, no re spawn. You're dead enjoy your trip to hell in a handbasket.

So yea, shenanigans.

Honestly bandits wouldn't be such a big deal if it were not for the 40+ thousand different players that could pass through a server every week. If you only had 50-100 and those didn't change very often murderers would be identified quickly and everyone would keep an eye out for them. Here you just switch servers. I have no problem with bandits that hunt a couple players a day when they get low on supplies, sure it's still messed up but at least it's supportive of conflict on the server. Those who kill 30+ players often when not needing a single thing from them are not supportive of the conflict on the server nor of the game. And like someone said, you could just as easily avoid players but you choose not to, you choose to set up somewhere with high traffic, you choose to carry an enfield or cz and you choose to shoot everyone that moves. Don't make it out like some self righteous self defense because it's not, it's the instincts of a COD player taking over and turning the game into an FFA deathmatch.

[/quote']

People kill each other for Nike shoes these days and for cheap stuff on Black Friday

You don't think people would murder each other during an apocalypse where you couldn't find food and water and were starving?

really its kanrath's idea's that are not supportive of the game

[Brawndo 1]

Here's how you balance the PvP issue:

Give incentives to players to keep other people alive.

As it stands right now, 99 times out of 100, another player is more of a value to you dead (i.e. no threat) than alive.

The best way I can think of achieving this is by creating player classes that players select when they spawn. For example, if you choose to be a Doctor, you have the ability to use bloodbags and other advanced medical aid, while other players can only bandage themselves and apply rudimentary first aid. Another player may choose to be a Mechanic, allowing him to fix cars while other classes cannot. Players who are Soldiers have the best combat skills, but they cannot do other things as well. And so forth. This would encourage players to team up instead of just deathmatching across Cheranus.

[deadbolt (DayZ) 10]

Here's how you balance the PvP issue:

Give incentives to players to keep other people alive.

As it stands right now' date=' 99 times out of 100, another player is more of a value to you dead (i.e. no threat) than alive.

The best way I can think of achieving this is by creating player classes that players select when they spawn. For example, if you choose to be a Doctor, you have the ability to use bloodbags and other advanced medical aid, while other players can only bandage themselves and apply rudimentary first aid. Another player may choose to be a Mechanic, allowing him to fix cars while other classes cannot. Players who are Soldiers have the best combat skills, but they cannot do other things as well. And so forth. This would encourage players to team up instead of just deathmatching across Cheranus.

[/quote']

(04-30-2012 01:01 AM)rocket Wrote: DayZ was designed to be impossibly cruel, dark, and brutal. It was not designed as a game it was more of an experiment, I prefer the term "anti-game" - in other words the mechanics are not designed to be balanced, or offer a way out for different situations. These are things game designers normally take care with.

It is the kind of system/environment that will sometimes make you want to punch the computer screen. But with that kind of risk, comes great emotional reward when you carry something off. The sniper you describe - there are people like this in the world, and in the breakdown of order I can bet that there would be people who would sit on a roof and shoot people "just for the lulz".

The system makes no judgement on player actions, and this is one of the only real rules that was adopted for the development. While consequences may occur for a particular action (e.g. humanity loss), no judgement is implied or placed on that behavior. Beyond hacks, and misuse of exploits, regulating player behavior is not a scope of this project. If players, themselves, wish to group together and attempt to regulate the behavior. Well, that's entirely up to you.

This kind of activity is not for everyone. It really is more of a social experiment than a game. There is no intention to change that, if you dislike the PVP, then I would recommend playing Dynamic Zombie Sandbox or Celery's excellent Chernaus Apocalypse - there is no point in these being recreated through this mod.

Why make something that has already been done?

[Dinnj 4]

People having player classes does not bridge gaps of mistrust. Just because that survivor who is still just as likely to shoot me (For whatever reason) can fix a car for me is not a reason for me to let him live.

Playing on your own presents other challenges than playing with many people already. We don't need to artificially buff how good teaming up will be. It would only make the organised vent/TS/skype/mumble? groups even stronger than they already are over others. Grouping up with someone else already brings all their skills and knowledge as a player, all their equipment rather than some of it, and most importantly a second set of eyes to see incoming threats or other survivors. Not to mention that two players are probably more than twice as combat effective as one in a firefight.

Mistrust is already enough to negate ALL of those advantages. Trust me, classes won't change that, just make pre-arranged groups strong as hell. (And I wonder what sort of spree it is that they'll go on when they realise?)

[Infinite Monkeys 0]

How to play DayZ:

Step 1: Shoot survivors

Step 2: Steal and eat their beans

Step 3: Repeat

Oh ye' date=' of limited foresight. You have, what, three posts to your name? Read along, and see all the things the cool kids are doing! This game is amazing, once you get past the tunnel vision that most players seem to exhibit.

TKJ

[/quote']

sorry I'm not obsessively posting in the mod forums I guess but that doesn't make me any worse a player!

[The Killing Joke 43]

sorry I'm not obsessively posting in the mod forums I guess but that doesn't make me any worse a player!

Your posts prove otherwise. Prove me wrong. What makes you a player 'on par' with anybody else, if you're giving the old "lather, rinse, repeat" analogy?

TKJ

[Infinite Monkeys 0]

sorry I'm not obsessively posting in the mod forums I guess but that doesn't make me any worse a player!

Your posts prove otherwise. Prove me wrong. What makes you a player 'on par' with anybody else' date=' if you're giving the old "lather, rinse, repeat" analogy?

TKJ

[/quote']

Insulting my posting is somewhat hypocritical coming from someone who signs their posts.

Infinite Monkeys

[The Killing Joke 43]

Insulting my posting is somewhat hypocritical coming from someone who signs their posts.

How so? (If you don't know what hypocritical means, just say so. Nobody is going to think much less of you.)

TKJ

[Infinite Monkeys 0]

Insulting my posting is somewhat hypocritical coming from someone who signs their posts.

How so? (If you don't know what hypocritical means' date=' just say so. Nobody is going to think much less of you.)

TKJ

[/quote']

Only bad posters sign their own posts.

Infinite Monkeys

[deadbolt (DayZ) 10]

How to play DayZ:

Step 1: Shoot survivors

Step 2: Steal and eat their beans

Step 3: Repeat

Oh ye' date=' of limited foresight. You have, what, three posts to your name? Read along, and see all the things the cool kids are doing! This game is amazing, once you get past the tunnel vision that most players seem to exhibit.

TKJ

[/quote']

not even sure why you would respond to this infinite monkey, clearly the post was just made to troll you, i doubt he really think's the amount someone post's on here has anything to do with skill

[Mourek 40]

What's your best technique to let people know that you're friendly without using text/voice chat?

[The Killing Joke 43]

What's your best technique to let people know that you're friendly without using text/voice chat?

Point your gun AWAY from them.

TKJ

[Lordtac 1]

What's your best technique to let people know that you're friendly without using text/voice chat?

Point your gun AWAY from them.

TKJ

So they can get the first (and only) shot they need in.

Your not going to come across friendly players unless you hit the survivor HQ and plan to meet up with them before hand. Everyone is to paranoid to have some guy they've only just met wander behind them even if the guy behind them only has a makarov.

[deadbolt (DayZ) 10]

What's your best technique to let people know that you're friendly without using text/voice chat?

Point your gun AWAY from them.

TKJ

So they can get the first (and only) shot they need in.

Your not going to come across friendly players unless you hit the survivor HQ and plan to meet up with them before hand. Everyone is to paranoid to have some guy they've only just met wander behind them even if the guy behind them only has a makarov.

nope, not if you both have no gear

[mrcheapy 1]

There is bandits and then there is assholes.

Today my friend shot a guy and I got his ALICE pack

(justified killing)

Killing a guy and leaving his corpse to rot and not even searching him is BS.

Bandits became bandits for some sort of gain.

Be a hoot and check that loot.

[deadbolt (DayZ) 10]

There is bandits and then there is assholes.

Today my friend shot a guy and I got his ALICE pack

(justified killing)

Killing a guy and leaving his corpse to rot and not even searching him is BS.

Bandits became bandits for some sort of gain.

Be a hoot and check that loot.

their gain is fun of killing another player, or just pretend its for safery concerns

either way WHY the person killed you has no further affect on you

[_triumph_ 1]

Problem is that this game has the bandit skin and there isn't an easy way for players to learn a friendship gesture.

Right now you look at the gun and skin to see how long or lucky. If it's a pistol or a low tier gun and a newbie skin you might as well shoot on sight if you're in the south.

After this is changed the players need to do something like dropping a Friendly Flare.