Everyone's a bandit - suggestions for a more "survival" type of gameplay

[lobsterman 5]

I haven't been playing for too long(1.5 weeks), so i'm probably going ot get a lot of shit for this post but here goes.

First off, everyone is a sociopath in this game. I've yet to meet anyone who haven't shot survivors on sight. This is supposed to be a co-op surviival type game right? So why is it only possible to team up with real life friends, or via forum posts? It should work the other way around. You log in, going through towns, scavenging, and when you find another player not shooting him, but teaming up against zombies and other nasty humans that want blood.

There are multiple problems with this concept. One being that people are assholes, and they hunt others because either they want better gear, or they feel superior somehow when they shoot unarmed survivors with a high end sniper rifle. Another problem is the lack of punishment for killing another human, and dying. While i don't have a solution for the first one, i have ideas how the game could punish those wicked enough, and some more general ideas.

Step 1: Killing an innocent is a weight on the soul. It should not be okay in any survivor's mind that 99% of the general population turned undead, and you just shoot a dude trying to get by. There should be ramifications. Especially if it was not a murderer in the first place. Killing just to get stuff to kill more people should be an evil thought in everyone's heads but the most sociopathic. First i thought mind consuming the body. The guilt weighting down the killer, so food and drinks don't satisfy him as they did before, health deteriorating(less maximum blood and/or food and blood items not healing that much). Then i thought, make it a little more interesting, why not tremors of the hand, twitching, hallucinations of the killed, maybe itchy trigger finger(held gun shooting itself off randomly). First kill would be a subtle effect but would grow exponentially with each consequent kill. I think these would all be suitable(im not sure how much of it can be executed in the engine) for lowering the number of people just hunting for sport. Maybe even a karma system would be good if it carried some weight on the murders done in previous lives.

Step 2: Death is not so bad as it should be. Especially for people hunting in packs. They just gather their buddy's equiptment, or hoard other stuff in tents, and respawning is not as bad anymore. you have your stash, you have your buddies, even if you die and lose a good weapon, there's more where that came from. Either take away any form of hoarding in the game between lives, or limit it to very few items, as it stands now people who have good guns can get more good guns in one life than they can lose with dying. Make it so that they can't hoard them anymore, and people will think about putting themselves in dangerous situations anymore. Also if you loose almost everything, you can't get yourself killed and remove all the effects of murder you commited on your previous life.

Also there are way too many guns in the game, and they are pretty predictable to find in the airfield, fire stations, crash sites(although that one is not so obvious). If there would be less guns, and they would be harder and more unpredictable to find, Elektro, Cherno, and the Stary-airfield area would stop being the PvP hotspots they are now, and losing a gun would mean something. When there are more melee weapons in the game and less firearms, death and item loss would mean more on the high end, and survival would not be so easy thus making people want to cooperate more.

Step 3: The zombies themselves are not scary enough. I only have one half of a solution to make them more interesting, but it might be cool. Infection. If a zombie hurts you there should be a chance you get infected which essentially should make you not wanting to get hit. Bones being broken, blood getting spilled, is not enough as they are easily countered. Infection is a thing you dont want, there probably should be an very rarely(and not predictibly) spawning antidote to this, but it should be a thing to fear. It could lower your health(like the things mentioned in step 1).

Step 4: No server hopping. People farming spots, jumping across multiple servers, exiting when trouble arises, is taking players out of the game's atmosphere, and are a very easy form of griefing, getting stuff with little threat, and basic death avoidance. I know a solution to alt-F4 is on the way, but juts disconnecting is doing the trick. Two things could counter this. 1, exit timer 15-30 secs, which would lock the player so that he can't escape quickly from getting shot, or eaten by zombies, and would make players log out in a safe spot. 2, simply disable alt-f4 while ingame 3, exiting a game(not kicked out by server, or other issues beyond the players control) would make it so that you can't log back in for say 10 minutes. This would also make players think about when and where they leave the game, and would hurt server hoppers considerably.

These are just suggestions. I'm not saying this is what needs to happen. Hell, i don't even know if survival aspect is the real goal of the game, or it's going into PvP hell for a reason. I personally enjoy the game for its huge world, and just trying to survive, scavenging supplies, and while i understand the PvP aspect, and like the aspect of anyone can be an asshole and could try to backstab you, i don't like the fact that everyone is shooting anyone who they meet on sight, just to be safe. Making this a real survival game would make it way more interesting.

Edited July 30, 2012 by lobsterman

[alec167 62]

uhh holy shit thats alot of typing wanna team up add me on steam hubbabubba110

[necroslord 73]

Just like me, you got it wrong. As for all I have read, zombies are not the main focus, PVP is. Snipers getting free shots on guys that can't retaliate is fashion. People even react very aggresively when other people has asked for the option to create PVP free servers. Even the availablity of the option begins a flame war.

[xDIx Revenge 51]

gimme a tl;dr pl0x

[Yatagan 62]

If my 10 days here have taught my anything, it's that this isn't a zombie survival game. It's an open world PvP game. What the creators say they are going for, yet what they do is entirely opposite of eachother.

Survival should encourage cooperation amongst players. Seeing someone and getting in a gun fight with bandits would be rare, though still happen plenty. Most people would group up, maybe trade. Still cautious of eachother, but not guns-a-blazin' constantly. However this game is currently just a giant PvP arena. I hope it's worked on and changed vigorously over the coming months.

[lobsterman 5]

Just like me, you got it wrong. As for all I have read, zombies are not the main focus, PVP is. Snipers getting free shots on guys that can't retaliate is fashion. People even react very aggresively when other people has asked for the option to create PVP free servers. Even the availablity of the option begins a flame war.

If the PvP is the focus, why have scavenging, why have zombies, why have the huge map and the primal needs? If it's about sniping dudes, play either standard ArmA2 multi or almost any other FPS?

Survival should encourage cooperation amongst players. Seeing someone and getting in a gun fight with bandits would be rare, though still happen plenty. Most people would group up, maybe trade. Still cautious of eachother, but not guns-a-blazin' constantly. However this game is currently just a giant PvP arena. I hope it's worked on and changed vigorously over the coming months.

Exactly my point. Thank you :)

Edited July 29, 2012 by lobsterman

[Yatagan 62]

If the PvP is the focus, why have scavenging, why have zombies, why have the huge map and the primal needs? If it's about sniping dudes, play either standard ArmA2 multi or almost any other FPS?

Exactly my point. Thank you :)

That's exactly our point. They say they are creating a zombie survival game, yet the current feel and playstyle of this game is basically entirely PvP in an open world map.

[ThatGuyCalledReptile 314]

The reason why we kill is for sport.

My group kills because zeds are to easy and players are the only real threat.

People who kill fresh spawns are scum and are idiots.

[Yatagan 62]

The reason why we kill is for sport.

My group kills because zeds are to easy and players are the only real threat.

People who kill fresh spawns are scum and are idiots.

So you'd be a more legit bandit. Which we do need some of. But it seems like everyone plays like this. And how do you kill? Do you just take a single shot from long range? Because that's not sport, that's just you randomly killing a guy in cold blood. That's why I think people who get all worked up about how cool hunting in real life is are weird. You shot a deer from 400m away? NO WAY YOU'RE LIKE AMAZING!

You should shoot towards people so they freak out and run, then hunt them. That would be sport. Albeit the bottom rung of banditry, it's still not just random killing for the lulz.

[necroslord 73]

If the PvP is the focus, why have scavenging, why have zombies, why have the huge map and the primal needs? If it's about sniping dudes, play either standard ArmA2 multi or almost any other FPS?

Don't get me wrong. I'm on your side. I have made quite a lot of posts already trying to defend the zombie survival cause. I'm just telling you my experiences. What I have read and what I have been yelled at. People really go nuts when you try to bring down the overextended PVP scenario that currently exists. I am primarily against snipers. They suck a lot of potential from the game. At least from my point of view.

Edited July 29, 2012 by necroslord

[Baelethal 102]

We, the players, need to be the change we wish to see in the mod, not on the forums, but in the game. yar yar, cliche, but true.

Is it going to get you shot when you attempt to talk to players instead of blindly shooting them? Probably.

Is it worth the challenge? Yes.

It takes one simple act of kindness to create a ripple. I'll let people go, or toss them a can of beans in hopes that the next person they come across they don't just blindly murder. Is this asking a lot? Probably. But, if I can help change one other person's gaming experience for the good, I have succeeded by my standards at this time.

And for you bandits (you legitimate, thugging, mugging, maiming bandits) please keep on keeping on. Your form of survival keeps this game interesting. I've had some encounters with some of you real bandits, and I'll tell you they were some of the most entertaining and intense moments of this game. Thank you.

Directly addressing the op:

1. Personally, I have my own moral compass, and I would rather not have a game impose one on me. Do some players seem to need this? Probably, but that's not for me to judge or force a certain play style on someone. I get Immersed. Others treat this like just another deathmatch with annoying zombies for scenery.

2. I think playing with people, and being able to hoard things promotes group play, which is what we would see in an apocalypse. I'm not sure decreasing guns would help anything in the PVP realm. If the devs wanted to, now would be the time to see what happens when we have no guns, or so many guns it's crazy, but that's up to the Devs and what they want to test. I know back a few patches when food and water wasn't spawning right, I had never felt so desperate in my entire gaming experience. I slaughtered every animal I saw and clung to the meat desperately. I looted every zombie I killed hoping, praying for food or water. I traveled and plotted my routes from lake to lake as to not dehydrate. Maybe decreasing gun spawns would trigger a similar reaction, but who knows.

3. There is a chance you'll get infected when hit. It's a low chance, which is good because antibiotics are rare. I also agree that zed should be a little more punishing, but currently, we're at a decent place with zed considering past patches.

4. This is being worked on. Have patience. They've tried the logout timer, but this causes mass duping because the engine doesn't like it. This will get fixed, you just need to give it time.

Edited July 29, 2012 by Baelethal

[sxcblood 36]

[Yatagan 62]

We, the players, need to be the change we wish to see in the mod, not on the forums, but in the game. yar yar, cliche, but true.

Is it going to get you shot when you attempt to talk to players instead of blindly shooting them? Probably.

Is it worth the challenge? Yes.

It takes one simple act of kindness to create a ripple. I'll let people go, or toss them a can of beans in hopes that the next person they come across they don't just blindly murder. Is this asking a lot? Probably. But, if I can help change one other person's gaming experience for the good, I have succeeded by my standards at this time.

And for you bandits (you legitimate, thugging, mugging, maiming bandits) please keep on keeping on. Your form of survival keeps this game interesting. I've had some encounters with some of you real bandits, and I'll tell you they were some of the most entertaining and intense moments of this game. Thank you.

Thiiiiis. We need legit bandits, not dicks who just mow down everything that moves. I have yet to be robbed or anything like that, which would be AWESOME. I either meet someone and we go our seperate ways (RARE) or I drop dead out of nowhere from a single burst of bullets.

[sudZ! 115]

So why not put together a roving group of survivors who don't care if they get shot and killed? instead of a clan dedicated to fixing helis and sniping people at NWAF, get together all of the supplies you can, and legitimately help people. Record what you do... if you get shot, put it on the forums and show people that you're trying to help. If you create an antithetical side to the bandits, you'll give people hope that the good guys exist.

As of now the most prevalent evidence of PvP interaction is banditry.... but if people act the opposite and SHOW PEOPLE that they're doing it... it will start "a ripple" as was said.

Also... Rocket and the DEV team are aware of this issue and have stated that they plan on making a LOT more late-game depth... from building structures/bases to farming etc.. if this happens people will have something to do other than hunt noobs on the beach. Give it some time...

[Haplo (DayZ) 44]

I started my own thread, and a curb on PvP is a small bi-product of what I suggest. There is no punishement on any playstyle, in fact it actually encourages PvP to some extent, but in a healthy way (ie. survivors vs bandits). I suggest a way to give fresh players a chance to group up before taking on the world.

Find it here if you're interested:

Edited July 30, 2012 by Haplo

[Jahgrid 1]

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/pve-dayz-servers-petition-for-rocket.html PvE servers petition.

[lobsterman 5]

http://www.gopetitio...for-rocket.html PvE servers petition.

PvE only is stupid. PvP is fine when done smartly. I mean if banditry happens in the form of actually robbing you and not shoot on sight. Or when you join up with a guy, and he backstabs you for an actual reason, like finding better loot then he has. I don't mind sniping either, if it's not everyone shooting your ass. PvP is cool if it's not free for all. Hell, even the game's trailer talks about paranoia, and distrust. Not about everyone shooting everyone else.

That's why i suggest a subtle effect on the first few kills, and exponentially growing. Because then, you could potentially kill 2-3 guys without any real problems for yourself, but going on a murdering spree would actually be stupid, maybe even making you regret it.

Edited July 30, 2012 by lobsterman

[ThatGuyCalledReptile 314]

So you'd be a more legit bandit. Which we do need some of. But it seems like everyone plays like this. And how do you kill? Do you just take a single shot from long range? Because that's not sport, that's just you randomly killing a guy in cold blood. That's why I think people who get all worked up about how cool hunting in real life is are weird. You shot a deer from 400m away? NO WAY YOU'RE LIKE AMAZING!

You should shoot towards people so they freak out and run, then hunt them. That would be sport. Albeit the bottom rung of banditry, it's still not just random killing for the lulz.

Off topic you've never hunted or ever shot a gun due to that comment you made. Shooting from distance is much harder than you think.

On topic I do snipe just because I kill by three creeds.

Be polite. Bury your kills and put them down Mercifully.

Be efficient. Never take more than one shot two if they go down but do not die.

Have a plan to kill everyone you meet. Don't get caught off guard.

My group also operates on a few simple rules.

If you get killed your killer get's your loot. It's your fault and they deserve it.

If you are a dick you get killed. Or if you break any of our creeds. You're killed.

And if you ever attack a friendly.. Well you'll be crawling your way back to the camp.

Not all bandits are cunt's who have no morals.

Occidimus, pacis et quietis.

[sealteamaus 16]

it's a survival simulation not coop survival game. If you feel that being a bandit will help you survive then you take that course. If you want a coop only survival game then make it yourself

[lobsterman 5]

it's a survival simulation not coop survival game. If you feel that being a bandit will help you survive then you take that course. If you want a coop only survival game then make it yourself

People get so defensive about his issue. You know these are just suggestions, and not demands, right?

[Eldo (DayZ) 7]

Just like me, you got it wrong. As for all I have read, zombies are not the main focus, PVP is. Snipers getting free shots on guys that can't retaliate is fashion. People even react very aggresively when other people has asked for the option to create PVP free servers. Even the availablity of the option begins a flame war.

If you don't like this game don't play it not sure how simpler this idea could be made.

[sxcblood 36]

if you suck play on empty servers, if you are a hardcore aimed gamer log on populated servers and man the fuck up

Edited July 30, 2012 by unknownuser

[necroslord 73]

Off topic you've never hunted or ever shot a gun due to that comment you made. Shooting from distance is much harder than you think.

On topic I do snipe just because I kill by three creeds.

Be polite. Bury your kills and put them down Mercifully.

Be efficient. Never take more than one shot two if they go down but do not die.

Have a plan to kill everyone you meet. Don't get caught off guard.

My group also operates on a few simple rules.

If you get killed your killer get's your loot. It's your fault and they deserve it.

If you are a dick you get killed. Or if you break any of our creeds. You're killed.

And if you ever attack a friendly.. Well you'll be crawling your way back to the camp.

Not all bandits are cunt's who have no morals.

Occidimus, pacis et quietis.

Beans for Team Fortress reference.

[Grim7 6]

If you don't like this game don't play it not sure how simpler this idea could be made.

"Things should never change, ever. This game is obviously finished the way it is, and living up to its true vision and purpose."

^---That's you.

[urspider2018@gmail.com 109]

I made a topic about this not too long ago, I think it's on the 2nd page atm.