Bandits don't get punished, Survivors do...

[Mastariata 0]

Well' date=' if DayZ has shown me something... is that the bandwagon habit is alive and well. People still don't fully comprehend the meaning of "balance", and still use their own personal experiences as the yard stick.

I have to remind myself it's just an alpha with a lot of new folks here from the Internet.

[/quote']

What else, if not personal experience, is someone meant to use as a yard stick? Your arguements are completely ad hominem and facile. I bet if you thought reasonably about the issue at hand for more than the time it takes you to write a reply, you'd come to a more logical conclusion. That and try putting away your clear dislike for bandits because you walked into Cherno one night with a flare in hand and got killed.

[worst2first 71]

I think that there need to be more rewards for cooperation. One possibility is to have specific tasks that require large scale cooperation. Another possibility is some kind of class system with ability trade offs, i.g. a medic with increased healing ability who could carry a medical pack but lost a lot of space for carrying extra weapons and ammo, a mechanic who carries tools and can fix vehicles, an engineer who carries tools for fortifying buildings.

Right now there is no real incentive for cooperation as equipment is the only thing that differentiates players and the easiest and fastest way to load up extra equipment is to kill someone that has already obtained it.

[seraosha 3]

Well' date=' if DayZ has shown me something... is that the bandwagon habit is alive and well. People still don't fully comprehend the meaning of "balance", and still use their own personal experiences as the yard stick.

I have to remind myself it's just an alpha with a lot of new folks here from the Internet.

[/quote']

I too will endeavour to remember that there a lot of new folks here whose experience is different than my own regarding balance, violence, and threat recognition. Cheers.

[aragos 1]

I think that there need to be more rewards for cooperation. One possibility is to have specific tasks that require large scale cooperation. Another possibility is some kind of class system with ability trade offs' date=' i.g. a medic with increased healing ability who could carry a medical pack but lost a lot of space for carrying extra weapons and ammo, a mechanic who carries tools and can fix vehicles, an engineer who carries tools for fortifying buildings.

Right now there is no real incentive for cooperation as equipment is the only thing that differentiates players and the easiest and fastest way to load up extra equipment is to kill someone that has already obtained it.

[/quote']

Amen. The solution could be even simpler. More Zombies. Instead of 500, 5000. Players become more focused on killing Zed than each other. The only way to get ahead becomes joining up--even if you are primarily a PvP player. For that matter, you suddenly have the motivation to form real bandit gangs (e.g., it is the only way to clear the airfields or bases, or to take out a large Survivor group) and Survivor groups (the only way to defend your hard earned gear from Bandits).

[Mastariata 0]

^The incentive for survivor groups already exists. Bandits can and will kill you for your equipment. Your incentive for grouping is more supplies, more ammo, and more protection. You already have exactly that which you just asked for.

[walrus2517 27]

Well' date=' if DayZ has shown me something... is that the bandwagon habit is alive and well. People still don't fully comprehend the meaning of "balance", and still use their own personal experiences as the yard stick.

I have to remind myself it's just an alpha with a lot of new folks here from the Internet.

[/quote']

You seem to think your definition of "balance" should be universal to everyone.

Honestly, I feel like this has been a reasonable thread at times, but you really need to get off your high horse and stop sounding so elitist. Your constant, unrelated criticisms of everyone who disagrees with you are incredibly hypocritical with your constant appeals for everyone to be "civil".

You have made some good points. Others have made some good counterpoints. This is how a debate works. There is no need to continually take shots at everyone.

The main thing, as someone just pointed out, is that Rocket is developing a system to better handle the bandit players. This is alpha and will continue to be developed and reworked.

[WalkerDown (DayZ) 296]

Those ppl pretending to know how a person would react to a zombie apocalypse is acceptable.. what is not is reading comments about: you would kill anyone for your life. That's completely false: if you know just a little the human nature (you don't need to have studied it, it's pretty logic) you know that for a "survivor" the most important thing would be to meet other survivors. It's like living on a desert island and finally find another person.

Do you really this that a normal person would camp the whole day to shoot down random chaps with a sniper rifle? Wtf u think? Everyone here turned into a psycho?

The only reason of why we have so many "bandits" in game, it's because this is a game, and you're not into a real zombie apocalypse (of course!), they shot ppl for fun, like in any other game.

Only few humans remained on the planet.. and you going to kill those few? LOL you must be have only your 0.1% of your brain working if you would do this in "real life", luckily this is not the RL. :)

[reuben5150 83]

For the first time ever i feel like not playing Dayz anymore after being shot by one of my own team "just for fun"

Leblackdragon is right, this is a clear issue.

Consider all the factors the player now has to think about-

Zombies

Bandits

food/water

temperature/infection

health/broken bones etc

The "fear effect" OTT camera shake

Ammo/weapons

Navigation/night

Searching for wood/matches

Maybe i missed something... on top but all this you travel for hours sometimes to meet friends only to be shot by some random idiot or yes even your own.

Its all starting to look like a confused mess, it has to be said.

[walrus2517 27]

I'm curious for those who complain about the possibility of being killed by a bandit at any moment, what is your suggestion to avoid this? No amount of skins or anything is going to keep a bandit sniper from killing you without you ever seeing him. As the saying goes, you shouldn't complain about something unless you have a better idea, so I would like to know how you intend to get rid of this "problem" of bandits killing innocent people.

Should users be banned once their humanity reaches a certain low? Should killing 10 survivors get you kicked from a server?

---

For the first time ever i feel like not playing Dayz anymore after being shot by one of my own team "just for fun"

Leblackdragon is right' date=' this is a clear issue.

Consider all the factors the player now has to think about-

Zombies

Bandits

food/water

temperature/infection

health/broken bones etc

The "fear effect" OTT camera shake

Ammo/weapons

Navigation/night

Searching for wood/matches

Maybe i missed something... on top but all this you travel for hours sometimes to meet friends only to be shot by some random idiot or yes even your own.

Its all starting to look like a confused mess, it has to be said.

[/quote']

I guess one man's "confused mess" is another man's absolute joy. I'm thoroughly enjoying this mod because of everything you list.

[reasand83@gmail.com 2]

I'm curious for those who complain about the possibility of being killed by a bandit at any moment' date=' what is your suggestion to avoid this? No amount of skins or anything is going to keep a bandit sniper from killing you without you ever seeing him. As the saying goes, you shouldn't complain about something unless you have a better idea, so I would like to know how you intend to get rid of this "problem" of bandits killing innocent people.

Should users be banned once their humanity reaches a certain low? Should killing 10 survivors get you kicked from a server?

[hr']

For the first time ever i feel like not playing Dayz anymore after being shot by one of my own team "just for fun"

Leblackdragon is right' date=' this is a clear issue.

Consider all the factors the player now has to think about-

Zombies

Bandits

food/water

temperature/infection

health/broken bones etc

The "fear effect" OTT camera shake

Ammo/weapons

Navigation/night

Searching for wood/matches

Maybe i missed something... on top but all this you travel for hours sometimes to meet friends only to be shot by some random idiot or yes even your own.

Its all starting to look like a confused mess, it has to be said.

[/quote']

I guess one man's "confused mess" is another man's absolute joy. I'm thoroughly enjoying this mod because of everything you list.

Agreed. I am enjoying every terrifying second of this mod.

[Kenny (DayZ) 3]

Great thread, well said.

[shadowrwolf 3]

punish bandits?

i have been shot in the back more times by susvivors than bandits.

bandits are not the problem greedy children is.

[walrus2517 27]

punish bandits?

i have been shot in the back more times by susvivors than bandits.

bandits are not the problem greedy children is.

First, I'd say any survivor killing you is just a bandit in the making. :)

Second, if you consider this a problem, how would you recommend this problem be solved?

[hailey 0]

They need mechanics that encourage more teamwork across all levels of the game. Not just if you have a group of super equipped teammates

Bandits make the game interesting and tense, but there's no attractive alternative at the moment. Often times it's easier to kill people and take their stuff than it is to find my own, and risk being the victim.

if there were more clear ways to work together to get things done the game would be better for it

Personally I don't want to kill other survivors, but that's like 80% of the game atm

[karbiner 29]

Bandits don´t get punished?

Bandits are getting punished all the time, by the ignorant SUPERNOOBS who came straight from youtube. I always see people moaning in the chat about how they will kill bandits on sight, only because they life in some fake reality that when you become a bandit, you are one with ALL the other bandits, and that all bandits ONLY hunt survivors, which is utter horseshit.

Survivors kill survivors and bandits, and bandits kill survivors and bandits and the SUPERNOOBS need to learn that, learn that it is purely an individual case rather then what skin you are carrying. Which is exactly why humanity and the whole banditmorphing will be replaced by many many different skins you can find on the map.

I am also very glad that Rocket is working on removing the whole ingame chat, leaving only the direct comms. So that noobs can't spam the pro's anymore with utter stupid questions, thereby forcing the ubernoobs to play a fucking tutorial once in a while. I bet 90% of the folks who life longer than a week are also the dudes who have a lot of experience with the game itself.

So enaugh with the QQ's, if you die its ALWAYS, without doubt 100% your own fucking fault :)

[sorophx 25]

UNfortunately' date=' unlike real life, you have more than one life to live.

[/quote']

fixed, for great justice. that's the exact reason people act like dicks - there's always a second chance, and it's easy to get all your gear back. bandits have nothing to lose.

unfortunately, there's no easy way to fix that

[walrus2517 27]

After more thought, I think the issue at hand is that there is no over-arching goal or playing style to this mod, therefore, everyone creates their own goal or style. For some, that goal is just to kill as many other players as they can. For some, the goal is to acquire the best equipment they can. For others, they may want to play as a survivor RPG and avoid other players as much as possible. The problem is that too many people see their chosen style as the "right" way to play this mod and complain that the mod should be adjusted accordingly because anyone not playing the same way is "wrong".

However, none of these goals are "wrong" or "right", and just because someone else's goal is different from yours doesn't mean the game should necessarily be changed just to accommodate your goal. If you want to play this as an RPG like I do, you just have to accept that there is a possibility you'll put in 10 hours of work, collect a great bundle of supplies, avoid everyone you see, yet still get picked off by some random sniper you never lay eyes on. If you want to try and cooperate, accept that the new friend you just made may shoot you in the back the first time you come across a nice loot stash.

You have to realize that any adjustments made to make it easier for your goal or playing style are going to draw complaints from everyone playing this mod another way. I'm certainly not claiming the mod is perfect as is and shouldn't be changed. Far from it. I can't wait to see what else Rocket comes up with and particularly what he does with the "humanity" system. All I'm saying is that complaining that one style of play is too easy or makes it too hard for your preferred method of play is not fair to Rocket or anyone else.

[Mastariata 0]

^ This.

[lockie1976 39]

Those that don't/won't kill are at the mercy of those that will.

[Beastro 0]

Rocket (the dev) wants to go for ultra realism' date=' and that you should solve problems faced like you would in real life, he lost grasp of the fact that this is a video game medium he's using. Meaning, you'll attract all the gun ho CoD players without a care in the world for fellow humans. There's no penalty for immoral acts in this game, so they aren't punished AT ALL for being bandits now. While decent survivors ARE punished for being moral.

... and the biggest fault (IMFO) to Rocket's broken vision is... you can't read people online. Their body language, their tone of voice, their faces... while they, at all time, are reading the chat log and abusing it. The MOD is not heavily sided, IT'S FULLY sided for Bandits. Which I consider makes it broken now. Rocket may have good intentions, but he isn't introducing any real counter balance to Bandits.

Introduce some small animation difference to their walk. Add a very subtle deviation to how they hold weapons. Change their faces ever so slightly so that it could only be recognized real close. Flip side, deny bandits access to the chat log or something.

Don't get me wrong, I'm fully for realism. You don't want forced bandit skins. Fine! Give me what I use in real life to help make a decision on someone. Body language and facial expressions.

[/quote']

Lol. I haven't seen this much blubie whine since I quit EQ in 2003.

If you can't discern baddies from goodies then you must be new to online PvP. Die a few dozen times and you'll catch on like everyone did back in the day.

[Suicide Mouse 50]

Lol. I haven't seen this much blubie whine since I quit EQ in 2003.

If you can't discern baddies from goodies then you must be new to online PvP. Die a few dozen times and you'll catch on like everyone did back in the day.

AKA: Be a dick to everything that moves.

[Beastro 0]

Lol. I haven't seen this much blubie whine since I quit EQ in 2003.

If you can't discern baddies from goodies then you must be new to online PvP. Die a few dozen times and you'll catch on like everyone did back in the day.

AKA: Be a dick to everything that moves.

The enforce your peace like a good Anti-PK and the game will have a lovely PvP dynamic not seen in over a decade.

[Suicide Mouse 50]

Lol. I haven't seen this much blubie whine since I quit EQ in 2003.

If you can't discern baddies from goodies then you must be new to online PvP. Die a few dozen times and you'll catch on like everyone did back in the day.

AKA: Be a dick to everything that moves.

The enforce your peace like a good Anti-PK and the game will have a lovely PvP dynamic not seen in over a decade.

If it's not asking too much, can you please give us some examples of how this can work in this particular mod?

Thanks.

[Beastro 0]

Lol. I haven't seen this much blubie whine since I quit EQ in 2003.

If you can't discern baddies from goodies then you must be new to online PvP. Die a few dozen times and you'll catch on like everyone did back in the day.

AKA: Be a dick to everything that moves.

The enforce your peace like a good Anti-PK and the game will have a lovely PvP dynamic not seen in over a decade.

If it's not asking too much' date=' can you please give us some examples of how this can work in this particular mod?

Thanks.

[/quote']

Create your own ganking squads and go hunt for bandit ganking squads. Find and hound down lone trackers.

Just work together for a common cause and police your server because no one else is going to do that for you, least of all the admins.

[Suicide Mouse 50]

You can't really tell who is a bandit and who is not right now.

This means you'd kill people that could be innocent. This means you're now a bandit yourself. This means someone needs to kill you now. The loop goes on.

I can understand the point that was made in this thread. It simply is: why NOT kill somebody? And there's no real reason not to.

There shouldn't be punishments, but there should be reactions to your actions. Something to make you think first before you pop one in the poor bastard's head.