Third person vs First person view

[BCaused 49]

There is nothing in DayZ that makes you need 3rd person, it only takes away for the experience. Remove third person and the game will be more balanced, immersible and fun for everyone when we have gotten used to it.

Now that is your opinion, To be honest I quite like third person because playing to much in any game that is first person like BF3 for example hurts my eyes + I like having the option. I think if they were to make things such as walls higher in cities that would eliminate all the problems with urban warfare, As for the people who prone in grass It is quite easy to spot and kill someone who is prone because they are restricting their movement the only problem with this is the % of players who have Ghillie suits but tbh they are quite rare so it wouldn't happen often.

[Roark92 90]

anyone who opposes the removal or modifying of third person view is a fool. A fool who simply does not share the vision that dean has for the game. I sincerely hope he maintains his integrity, and doesn't bow to the fools and make concessions on game mechanics and such. so that when the game is released, all these changes are implemented and you stubborn fools continue to play and after a few hours realize "this isnt so bad, it might actually be better" all of us anti-easymode folks can laugh with you status-quo lovers and we can discuss 3dp and wonder why we ever bothered disagreeing over something so obviously terrible and detrimental to the game.

im looking forward to it.

[enforcer1975 1111]

It's hard to get used to it once easy mode is taken away. But isn't the game supposed to surprise the playerß Instead he can "peek" around the corner and see everything. I love the surprise or let's say horror you experience when you think there is only one zombie around the corner and you have like 10 chasing after you because you just ran around the corner instead of leaning over it first...

[MarcDaKind 37]

If you don't like it, don't use it. How hard is it, Just because it is used to benefit some people does not mean it's a problem.

people are gonna moan no matter what.

I do agree the FOV needs addressing though.

A friend of mine is hosting a pretty popular private hive, which has around 20 to 40 players on each day. We personally want to remove 3rd person for obvious reasons, but are afraid it will make us loose players.

So no, third person is not a choice; it's forced on for everybody who wants to play with other players, even server hosts has to keep it on if they want successful servers!

We might do a week trying 3rd person off and see how it goes, but it's still a risk that many of our regulars will find a new server instead.

Rocket needs to stop this madness and remove third person, only then can we have balanced firefights that isn't a "peek fest", not to mention how insanely OP helicopters are at spotting things with third person and so on...

PS: It's a well known fact that the majority of players will move towards the easiest option presented, I have seen well populated servers where you spawn with a GPS, nightvision and basic survival gear, while the most populated server at the moment is a 24 hour daytime server. Someone here want these features as an optional server setting as well?

Edited December 24, 2012 by MarcDaKind

[RooBurger 285]

If you don't like it, don't use it.

Not that simple - it puts people who don't use it at a massive disadvantage. I don't like it, but I'm forced to use it if I don't want to be gimped.

[enforcer1975 1111]

Without quoting the last two posts...

@Marc

Seems they want to play Wasteland with zombies.

@Roo

I told that some other players years ago...and they didn't understand what i meant with it...

[Very Ape 748]

If you don't like it, don't use it. How hard is it, Just because it is used to benefit some people does not mean it's a problem.

You say used to benefit, I hear exploited by.

It is a problem, because it makes the game less scary, not having to expose yourself to peek around a corner. That's a lot of power to the sniper deathmatchers. It sucks to get shot in the ass by someone who's been hiding behind a wall, and could see you the whole time without you seeing him, despite your thorough scoping out of the area. It's unfair.

And before I hear any "OHMYGODDAYZISNTMEANTOTBEFAIR," let's address something: Yes, it is. It's fucking fair. Everyone starts out on equal footing. Now, people who enjoy camping around big cities shouldn't be blessed with a power to remain completely invisible and in-cover while allowing them a full view of the area. I'm not asking for equal redistribution of weapons, I'm asking for a glitch that gives a distinct advantage to people on the offensive to be removed.

inb4 "OHMYGODSTFU IT ADVANTAGES EVERRYONE"

Of course it does. But it gives a more important advantage to someone who's camping atop a hill, waiting in ambush.

Edited December 24, 2012 by Very Ape

[BLKCandy 12]

I'm fine with removing 3rd person. However I will scream if they remove the third person and keep the first person as it is. The screen just keep shaking and it makes me dizzy.

But however 3rd person might be a must have when you navigate in a tight area and suddenly stuck and cannot see what make you stuck.

So I suggest making a special 3rd person view! The feeling! When in 3rd person view you can only see 2 meter away from yourself in grey scale with no texture and environmental light effects, like a plain 3D model, which you can rotate the view and zoom in/out freely . This can be explained by 'You are using your hands and feet to touch and feel everything around you' therefore the light will have no effect, you cannot see the color or texture, but you can feel its shape as long as you can touch it. This will help a lot when navigating in some place you can't see very well, and also help with looting at night, while not really 'unbalanced', 'unrealistic' or 'exploitable'. Because in reality you would use your hand to feel things if you cannot see, not adjusting brightness and gamma of the world.

[enforcer1975 1111]

uhm...you know you can turn off camera shake/head bob in the settings...?

Some people complain about things and they never took a look into when they can actually set up to their convinience.

[QuantumDrop 7]

Because it's a forum for suggestions, and clearly a significant enough portion of the community wants to discuss the removal of third person view.

As someone mentioned, you can change your options to improve performance in first person. Quite simple and effective. And yes, third person does give an advantage in a firefight. You can see over obstacles and have ridiculously unrealistic visual awareness of your surroundings. Many people play in third person only because they have this advantage and it makes them more difficult to sneak up on, while giving them an advantageous means to locate potential targets.

This whole notion of "the game is perfect" and "shouldn't change" just reeks of childish sentiment from people who've adapted to the game as it is, and can't bear to have to adapt to anything different, no matter how detrimental to gameplay it is to leave it unchanged. This attitude leads to stagnation; when a vocal portion of people spend time burying helpful or otherwise criticism and insisting upon the status quo, the game goes nowhere but downhill. Heaven forbid any sort of changes be made to a game that is ridden with bugs and glitches, but has all the potential in the world.

Also, why should people who play in the first person have any concern if removal of the third person mode prevents you from playing the game as you want? Especially if the issues you have in the first person are easily remedied by tweaking your options?

You are quite right about stagnation. I just think this isn't a discussion worth having. My thoughts are that we should change the whole game because a minority thinks it should be changed, which is something you conveniently ignored in your reply. And I don't really think TP gives anyone an edge, if everybody can use it. Unless you're a tryhard, which everybody here seems to be. There are plenty of 3DP servers and you can all go there.

About the FP being buggy and laggy, I'm not talking about performance, it's just design. It's bad in so many ways. If it was improved, maybe I'd use it for things other than shooting. You missed the point there saying I had to adjust my configs.

[brzator47@gmail.com 524]

uhm...you know you can turn off camera shake/head bob in the settings...?

Some people complain about things and they never took a look into when they can actually set up to their convinience.

Perhaps it should be more clear that turning down head bob and changing FOV is indeed possible. WIth different default values there would be more people playing on FP servers too.

I don't really see how is FP buggy and laggy and 3DP isn't when they're both the same in ARMA with a different camera.

[Heiduk 265]

So I suggest making a special 3rd person view! The feeling! When in 3rd person view you can only see 2 meter away from yourself in grey scale with no texture and environmental light effects, like a plain 3D model, which you can rotate the view and zoom in/out freely

This is probably the most interesting suggestion I've seen in one of these topics. I'm not sure how well it would work in practice but beans for creativity.

[Michaelvoodoo25 3120]

3DP will not be removed from the game, it will probably be a server side setting like so much of the features for the SA. The choice would be more welcomed than a tried and proven preference.

Its a feature in a game and some of you are acting like it's a major problem and some of you are just moaning because you simply don't like it, it's called 3Dist ;)

And for those who say it's only becasue your used to it and can't picture a new way to look at it, No your right, I play the game in 3D because i like it, I don't like it all the time but the choice is better than being forced to play a certain way that is not my story. Give players the choice and do not force us to play a certain way.

I could play FPV but the FOV needs to be drasticaly improved as it is not very good for FOV.

[enforcer1975 1111]

Perhaps it should be more clear that turning down head bob and changing FOV is indeed possible. WIth different default values there would be more people playing on FP servers too.

I don't really see how is FP buggy and laggy and 3DP isn't when they're both the same in ARMA with a different camera.

If you have ever had a look at the game you would see that the 3rd person cam isn't physically attached to your body which is why it doesn't shake around that much or even not when you run around while the "headcam" shakes due to the shocks you have when you step on the ground. It's far from perfect but at least better than in any other shooter where the camera is always steady no matter what you do and of course you don't have a physical body. IRL it doesn't shake that much and the camera in the game is really awkwardly placed and the zoom is ridicolous ( which imo should be removed to give magnifying devices a reason to exist ) but yes...ArmA has a lot more to offer than other games together.

[RooBurger 285]

You say used to benefit, I hear exploited by.

It is a problem, because it makes the game less scary, not having to expose yourself to peek around a corner. That's a lot of power to the sniper deathmatchers. It sucks to get shot in the ass by someone who's been hiding behind a wall, and could see you the whole time without you seeing him, despite your thorough scoping out of the area. It's unfair.

And before I hear any "OHMYGODDAYZISNTMEANTOTBEFAIR," let's address something: Yes, it is. It's fucking fair. Everyone starts out on equal footing. Now, people who enjoy camping around big cities shouldn't be blessed with a power to remain completely invisible and in-cover while allowing them a full view of the area. I'm not asking for equal redistribution of weapons, I'm asking for a glitch that gives a distinct advantage to people on the offensive to be removed.

inb4 "OHMYGODSTFU IT ADVANTAGES EVERRYONE"

Of course it does. But it gives a more important advantage to someone who's camping atop a hill, waiting in ambush.

Not only that, it weakens the effect of suppressive fire. It's more difficult to pin someone down when they can watch you without peeking their head out. So when you're the aggressor and trying to lay down suppressive fire, they can just watch and wait, then pop up and shoot you or whatever. You're far more likely to get pinned if you can't watch.

[brzator47@gmail.com 524]

If you have ever had a look at the game you would see that the 3rd person cam isn't physically attached to your body which is why it doesn't shake around that much or even not when you run around while the "headcam" shakes due to the shocks you have when you step on the ground. It's far from perfect but at least better than in any other shooter where the camera is always steady no matter what you do and of course you don't have a physical body. IRL it doesn't shake that much and the camera in the game is really awkwardly placed and the zoom is ridicolous ( which imo should be removed to give magnifying devices a reason to exist ) but yes...ArmA has a lot more to offer than other games together.

Well, yeah. It's kinda hard to simulate first person "the right way". If you were to put a camera to your head and run like that it would shake even more than it does but of course our brain adjusts for that. On the other hand, a floating camera doesn't feel or look real either. Disagree on the zoom being removed. It's supposed to simulate real life resolution of our eyes and playable FOV at the same time. It's pretty much spot on.

Not only that, it weakens the effect of suppressive fire. It's more difficult to pin someone down when they can watch you without peeking their head out. So when you're the aggressor and trying to lay down suppressive fire, they can just watch and wait, then pop up and shoot you or whatever. You're far more likely to get pinned if you can't watch.

Yep, like I said, most people don't realize how much effect third person has on combat mechanics.

[MarcDaKind 37]

3DP will not be removed from the game, it will probably be a server side setting like so much of the features for the SA.

Where did you read this? (Yeah I know hes just talking out of his ass...)

[enforcer1975 1111]

Not only that, it weakens the effect of suppressive fire. It's more difficult to pin someone down when they can watch you without peeking their head out. So when you're the aggressor and trying to lay down suppressive fire, they can just watch and wait, then pop up and shoot you or whatever. You're far more likely to get pinned if you can't watch.

That's what a lot of people don't want to be: pinned down..well most people play with tunnel vision anyway even when using 3rd person so it won't make a big difference if you turn it off. And the wider fov they claim is still the same, it only looks wider because the camera is behind you and you lose a lot of details at distance because the camera is set back which you can counter by using the zoom button to get the camera to your position...which is a funny solution to a stupid feature imo.

Wider fov, night with moon, nvg and base radar didn't help my three victims either when i played wasteland yesterday night...and i even stole their AAA truck in the process while beeing shot at by their comrades whom i pinned down instead of having them pin me down by shooting whole magazines into their cover.

They used VON and that's what i heard.

*pop* *pop*

Player1: "What the f*** why didn't anyone see him?"

Player2: "..."

Player3: "It's ok i have the truck" *pop*

I had a lot more situations like these while playing DayZ and wasteland...with and without 3rd person...the only situation where i am caught with my pants down is when someone is camera peeking around a corner or proning behind a wall...

[RooBurger 285]

That's what a lot of people don't want to be: pinned down..well most people play with tunnel vision anyway even when using 3rd person so it won't make a big difference if you turn it off

I have a challenge for you - next time you take cover from someone, switch to first person only. Let me know if it makes a difference.

[kaiga12 22]

Not only that, it weakens the effect of suppressive fire. It's more difficult to pin someone down when they can watch you without peeking their head out. So when you're the aggressor and trying to lay down suppressive fire, they can just watch and wait, then pop up and shoot you or whatever. You're far more likely to get pinned if you can't watch.

I have tried to pin people before and because of this very reason it doesn't work. If they are on a rooftop with you shooting up in order to keep them supressed your shots mean absolutely nothing cause they can just go prone, watch you and laugh. Then you reload and they pop up...

[dystopeon 46]

the way I see it, the real money is in keeping the community 'divided and conquered'. 3DP stays for the arma mod & 1st person only for the SA. That way they keep both yo monies, 3DP pansies keep their comfort stew (and keep buying ARMA2) and the hardcore douchebags get their cake with the SA. ARMA 3 stays seperate (affording a much later/better release). Its a profit deal! (yeah I hate everybody :)) win.

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

Rooftop vantage points are irrelevant in this discussion.

I absolutely guarantee you, even in 1st person only, the guy with the high ground still has the advantage.

If 3dp gives players any advantage, it's available to all. If it's causing you greif, it's because your'e getting outplayed, simple as.

inb4 realistic, blah blah blah.

If you want realism, make any bullet from any source,in any body part, fuck you up royally.

FPV in DayZ is what life would look like if you looked through a tiolet-roll tube all the time.

I prefer to switch when necessary, rather than be forced to use it constantly.

The 3dp cam should be tightened to the character. (funny story, the "otherZ" did that one thing pretty decent IMO)

It needs fixed, but it shouldn't be removed.

Edited December 31, 2012 by Chabowski

[RooBurger 285]

Rooftop vantage points are irrelevant in this discussion.

I absolutely guarantee you, even in 1st person only, the guy with the high ground still has the advantage.

When they can magically watch you without repercussion, sure.

If 3dp gives players any advantage, it's available to all. If it's causing you greif, it's because your'e getting outplayed, simple as.

I'm not getting outplayed, I do quite well. I'm forced to use 3rd person simply because I'm putting myself at a disadvantage if I don't. When it's switched on, you have to use it unless you want to be gimped.

inb4 realistic, blah blah blah.

What kind of argument is that? You can't just say "blah blah blah" and that means realism doesn't matter. It definitely does in this game. It's the most realistic game I've ever played. Not just because of how it works, but how it makes me feel. For me, 3rd person takes the icing off the cake. It doesn't ruin the game for me, but I'd really prefer it wasn't there.

If you want realism, make any bullet from any source,in any body part, fuck you up royally.

That's not realistic I'm afraid. You want real life examples to explain why?

I think you're just worried about losing it because you'll be at a disadvantage until you get used to 1st person.

Edited December 31, 2012 by RooBurger

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

If you want to give me an example, post a video of you running 10K after being shot. Eat as many beans as you like.

FYI, I believe any gunfight should be played out in 1st person, but to force the entirety of the experience into a restricted view would be a really dumb move on the part of the devs.

Not everyone plays this game as a pure FPS. This appears to be a point your group can't seem to wrap their minds around.

If you put yourself at a disadvantage, who's to blame?

[brzator47@gmail.com 524]

If you put yourself at a disadvantage, who's to blame?

Third person view.

Removing the starting gun was said to be a very dumb move by many people. As was removing the debug monitor. I really see no good reason why 3dp must stay aside from people being used to it.