Third person vs First person view

[Wep0n 532]

some very hot news from twitter, which might stir things up abit:

Jerry Bowman

Since you're considering removing CH in the SA, are you also thinking bout removing 3rd person?

9:44 AM - 22 Jan 13

Dean Hall

Considered it and a very good debate on reddit/forums about it. I have a solution, but that doesn't involve removing it entirely

9:45 AM - 22 Jan 13

Rocket has a solution!

I am really excited what he came up with... by "not removing it entirely" he probably meant "limiting" third person view in a way...

Edited January 22, 2013 by Wep0n

[RooBurger 285]

Hopefully I get to eat my words and I was wrong that a compromise can't be made.

[starwarsfan@gmx.de 450]

Funny how most people want to remove third person because it's an exploit and gives and unfair advantage in a firefight... uhm... I'm not sure if I missed something but isn't DayZ supposed to have a focus on survival and not a PvP shoot out? Seriously if you guys want to play a shooter maybe you should go somewhere else?

As for 1st Person being immersive... well I'm lying in the grass in first person, I can't see shit in front of me... I'll just stick my head out a little... wait can't do that... that's immersive!

3rd Person accounts for a lot of shit you can't do in the game, like stick your head out to look out of a bunch of tall grass. But that's not even why I want it to be in the game, I just prefer 3rd Person. That's called personal preference, I don't have to make up shitty excuses why it's better or worse.

[Gooober 34]

3rd person when prone..

3rd person when in a vehicle (mainly for people with crappy computers that cant load road blocks quick enough)

Otherwise disabled.....

[brzator47@gmail.com 524]

some very hot news from twitter, which might stir things up abit:

Rocket has a solution!

I am really excited what he came up with... by "not removing it entirely" he probably meant "limiting" third person view in a way...

Interesting. Looking forward to seeing this solution, though I doubt it will make it to the foundation release. Good to know at least something will eventually be done about it.

Funny how most people want to remove third person because it's an exploit and gives and unfair advantage in a firefight... uhm... I'm not sure if I missed something but isn't DayZ supposed to have a focus on survival and not a PvP shoot out? Seriously if you guys want to play a shooter maybe you should go somewhere else?

I rarely pvp but once you're attacked you have no choice but to defend yourself. And you still have roof campers and such. Guess what I'm saying is, you can focus on survival as much as you want, you will still be affected by 3rd person exploits.

3rd person accounts for a few annoyances that you can't do in the game, nothing more than that IMO. I would say it's much more of a case of people being used to it than anything else.

[jaytmuk (DayZ) 621]

Whether you keep or get rid of 3rd person will there be info about that out there so people can decide to buy SA or not, Because i feel alot of people will be disapointed buying it and then finding out you cannot use 3rd person.

Not sure why some people want to force others to play the way they do.

Not sure why they cant accept 3rd person and 1st person servers, Wheres the advantage there to a person with 3rd person on over 1st person opponent if both on diff servers lol

[Tigerbeetweenie 51]

people prone in grass are still abusing the same mechanic. they remain low profile, while at the same time can clearly see everything around them.

blurring wouldn't do the trick imo - the point is, with 3rdp you can spot people. and with blur you can still spot movement and guesstimate their location.

3rdp needs to be limited to your actual FOV, or be removed.

A lot of people are tired of first person and others have trouble stomaching first person due to the motion sickness that can accompany it. I realize that DayZ is supposed to be in the same realism vein as ARMA but there are some situations when people are going to have to compromise realism for the sake of fun (and play-ability in certain cases). I personally think that this is one of those instances.

Addendum: This is in reference to using third person to see out of grass.

Furthermore, in terms of the game play mechanic itself, it's not like there isn't an option to eliminate third person from the server settings. Just play on a Veteran server with the mode you want or start your own server if you can't find a decent one (the server owners pay out of their pockets to host this game so it's not like you have the right to complain). It's not an "all-or-nothing" situation like you make it out to be.

As far as using third person to see over walls goes, there are valid fixes and suggestions that have been posted that could alleviate this problem in the stand-alone. From what I've observed in this thread, there is a general consensus that this point is a valid concern and I can agree that this is an obnoxious exploitation of an otherwise completely reasonable game component.

[xx_fr0st-w0lf_xx 53]

Back before dayz was out, Me and my clan played only first person. Increase immersion, strategy and skill. Those days are long gone but i kind of miss it, I always switch to first in quiet situation just to have the realistic feel, but once a firefight breaks out i have no choice but to use my orbital UAV to look over walls and such.

I would dance if it was removed/ tweaked.

[BarryManalow 1]

Well,

The arma 2 engine is capable of scripting it to the point where it only renders animated objects(players,zombies etc) within the players sightline.

That way you can have 3rd person spatial reasoning, but not the invisible man power that we all hate(it is a crutch btw and a lame one at that). As soon as you peak over whatever ledge you are hding behind it checks sightlines via the doscan command on your charachter. If animated objects are found within the sightlines they are rendered upon discovery. You can even make it so it only affects the rendering of other players and leave zombies etc alone.

that way we all win.

Immersion will peak for all playstyles and the exploits are limited.

SO finally those damn snipers will have to work on good positioning intstead of finding the nearest hard cover.

[Rekli 995]

Can people PLEASE stop using "dayz is realistic" argument for all shitty "features" dayz has? (like breaking legs and healing it with morphine etc)

DayZ cant really change the ArmA features and they are going to have splints ect in the game to combat leg braking so yeah...SA gonna be more realistic (plus infected not zombies)

[SmashT 10907]

Rockets compromise looks to be that changing from first to third person will be done via the menu instead of a hotkey and given the crosshair is likely being removed, this is going to make shooting in third person a bit more difficult and hopefully balance the two a little more.

I'm curious if we will actually be able to aim down sights while in third person mode or if that would be too frustrating if it's removed

Edited January 26, 2013 by smasht_AU

[thodouras95 21]

You already have the option to play hardcoar, and it is mentioned above.I wouldn't like to see it removed in the current game, but in SA maybe I won't mind.Please understand me, in real life your environment doesn't turn blurry, nor does it move up and down like a hand jerking off once you start running.If SA is gonna be any more realistic, remove it, I don't mind.

[enforcer1975 1111]

If people want to play third person they don't need the sights... :P Keep them spraying.

People who want immersion and do not use the excuse of wanting to see their character from behind ( which takes 1/3 of the screen and with it a lot of fov ) but actually meaning they want to peek around obstacles to have an advantage where there shouldn't be one should be able to use their optics.

I could shoot without crosshairs in 3rd person just fine...i just had to tilt my RL head and my camera was behind the rifle...

You already have the option to play hardcoar, and it is mentioned above.I wouldn't like to see it removed in the current game, but in SA maybe I won't mind.Please understand me, in real life your environment doesn't turn blurry, nor does it move up and down like a hand jerking off once you start running.If SA is gonna be any more realistic, remove it, I don't mind.

Ever heard of headbob?

Edited January 26, 2013 by Enforcer

[lol4ever.sw@web.de 10]

DayZ cant really change the ArmA features and they are going to have splints ect in the game to combat leg braking so yeah...SA gonna be more realistic (plus infected not zombies)

Plus, Rocket has said multiple time he wants the game to be "authentic", not realistic. A Zombie Apocalypse isn't very realistic, but he aims to authentically simulate it, with the necessary restrictions that the game still is fun.

I personally would prefer 3dp being taken out except if in Vehicles, but actually I don't give a shit if it's in or not. May those who need it use it...

[brzator47@gmail.com 524]

Rockets compromise looks to be that changing from first to third person will be done via the menu instead of a hotkey and given the crosshair is likely being removed, this is going to make shooting in third person a bit more difficult and hopefully balance the two a little more.

I'm curious if we will actually be able to aim down sights while in third person mode or if that would be too frustrating if it's removed

Hmm, I'm not sure how that changes much. I think most people who play in 3rd person never switch to 1st person anyway. You can always right click to bring up iron sights from either mode. If that's really all there is to this solution, this could mean 1st person is going to be used even less. No one is going to basically lock themselves to 1st person to play on 3rd person enabled servers.

[lol4ever.sw@web.de 10]

Hmm, I'm not sure how that changes much. I think most people who play in 3rd person never switch to 1st person anyway. You can always right click to bring up iron sights from either mode. If that's really all there is to this solution, this could mean 1st person is going to be used even less. No one is going to basically lock themselves to 1st person to play on 3rd person enabled servers.

Who sais you are able to bring up iron sights from 3dp? Sure, if you are able to, theres no big difference. But I don't think you will.

[Testwd3r235 2810]

There is a simple way to deal with this, there are some servers that allow only 1st and some only 3rd yet most are both. If you like A over B join A if you like B over A join B and if you like to alternate between the two join C.

[enforcer1975 1111]

Plus, Rocket has said multiple time he wants the game to be "authentic", not realistic. A Zombie Apocalypse isn't very realistic, but he aims to authentically simulate it, with the necessary restrictions that the game still is fun.

I personally would prefer 3dp being taken out except if in Vehicles, but actually I don't give a shit if it's in or not. May those who need it use it...

Making a game as realistic as possible ( just pretend it could happen ) makes the game authentic. If you have in mind that there are no zombies you will never immerse yourself into a game.

[SmashT 10907]

Hmm, I'm not sure how that changes much. I think most people who play in 3rd person never switch to 1st person anyway. You can always right click to bring up iron sights from either mode. If that's really all there is to this solution, this could mean 1st person is going to be used even less. No one is going to basically lock themselves to 1st person to play on 3rd person enabled servers.

I agree, it really depends if you can aim down sights in third person though (like you can in the mod), it could very well force you to either use third person and fire from the hip with no crosshair or go into the menu and change to first so you can aim down the sights. That might be a bit too annoying though.

Edited January 26, 2013 by smasht_AU

[BarryManalow 1]

i just confirmed its possible for myself in the arma 2 editor. To not render any animated objects(units) in 3dp behind cover. buildings trees etc are in place.

Actually just a small tweak as it turned out.

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

There is a simple way to deal with this, there are some servers that allow only 1st and some only 3rd yet most are both. If you like A over B join A if you like B over A join B and if you like to alternate between the two join C.

Oh great. Way to leave us who prefer D out. >:(

i just confirmed its possible for myself in the arma 2 editor. To not render any animated objects(units) in 3dp behind cover. buildings trees etc are in place.

Actually just a small tweak as it turned out.

Umm.. why? Might as well remove it if it doesn't actually serve a purpose.

Look guys. If you don't like 3d person, find a first person only server. There are some great ones out there as it turns out.

Edited January 26, 2013 by SausageKingofChicago

[Testwd3r235 2810]

Oh great. Way to leave us who prefer D out. >:(

Umm.. why? Might as well remove it if it doesn't actually serve a purpose.

Look guys. If you don't like 3d person, find a first person only server. There are some great ones out there as it turns out.

What would D be? ;)

[MarcDaKind 37]

i just confirmed its possible for myself in the arma 2 editor. To not render any animated objects(units) in 3dp behind cover. buildings trees etc are in place.

Actually just a small tweak as it turned out.

Fraps it. If it's true you should send it to rocket Edited January 27, 2013 by MarcDaKind

[Kanide 5]

Mate, no ones forcing you to use your 3rd person veiw. Just stick to 1st person if you play on a server that has both. Or even easier, join a server with 3rd person disabled, OK? Cuz there are other people in the world that LIKE 3rd person, the universe dosent centre around you.

[Sutinen 635]

Can people PLEASE stop using "dayz is realistic" argument for all shitty "features" dayz has? (like breaking legs and healing it with morphine etc)

Yeah, because of few broken features, DayZ is suddenly unrealistic and needs arcadish features, right?

There is a simple way to deal with this, there are some servers that allow only 1st and some only 3rd yet most are both. If you like A over B join A if you like B over A join B and if you like to alternate between the two join C.

I can't imagine myself playing in only 3rd person... What is the point of that?

And to reaply to the thread, leave the 3rd person in the game and make "hardcore" servers. Which are on a different hive.

Edited January 27, 2013 by Sutinen