CryEngine 3 - Possible?

[Takas 91]

Give me a engine that gives you a 10km view distance and doesn't require loading here and there.

Frostbite 2.0 doesn't in Battlefield 3. I run it at full settings, hop in a helicopter and fly the shit out of the map. 60 FPS. With graphics that are 3 or 4 times as good as Arma2. Yeah, the RV engine isn't shit, because it's taking too much resources. I just have to invest another 300 Euro for an outdated engine. Makes perfectly sense. It's not like I run everything else on the best settings.

If it can't run on mediocre or high PCs without dropping < 30 FPS, it's simply requiring too much resources for something that isn't there. What is it loading? A couple of sprites in the background? When I am in the school in Elektro, and look to the ground, waching a low-res-resolution grey texture, I am below 30 FPS. Tell me how that is a powerful engine. No optimization whatsoever. It sucks.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Takas

[duddbudda 33]

I wonder if it Rocket would be open to the idea of having people work in tangent with him and develop DayZ on CryEngine or Unreal Engine while he continues with Arma...

you don't need Rocket's permission

the hard part will be making CE3 approach ARMA's granularity of control, whilst syncing those minutiae (lip movement, body positioning, trajectory of fire etc) with all the chaps within a 10km LoS

when you've got that down, that's when Rocket can worry whether you're gonna make another DayZ

Edited July 25, 2012 by Sandy

[duddbudda 33]

Frostbite 2.0 doesn't in Battlefield 3. I run it at full settings, hop in a helicopter and fly the shit out of the map. 60 FPS

BF3 doesn't draw objects at half the distance ARMA does, it's made on three year newer tech, with optimisation options that were simply impossible before DX11 came on the scene, back when customers couldn't be demanded to run an X64 architecture

When I am in the school in Elektro, and look to the ground, waching a low-res-resolution grey texture, I am below 30 FPS

nect time you're in Cherno, run your GPU and CPU monitors on overlay - you'll see that's not a GPU limitation - that's CPU choke

what's it choking on? well, since I don't get that framerate hit in ARMA II vanilla, it's probably pathing and LoS checks for the dozens of Zeds

[Takas 91]

It's made on three year newer tech, with optimisation options that were simply impossible before DX11 came on the scene, back when customers couldn't be demanded to run an X64 architecture

So what's that for an argument for using this outdated engine? It's not. We need something newer. As I said earlier in this thread I really do not care what engine, as long as it's not the current one. It's old and doesn't run as nearly as smooth as newer engines that only require half the resources ARMA II does and yet provide far better graphics and physics as well.

[bezki 31]

funny thing is. i heard in an interview not long ago that they have allready ported dayz to the arma 3 engine to look if its possible and it has worked very nice and was easy to transfer.

[hobbicon 19]

If there is one engine I would like DayZ to be made in other than ARMA, it would definitely be Unreal 4.

Why, do you want some M-m-m-monster Kills near the coastline?

[lllewqer 4]

If only Rocket didn't leave us hanging here and put an end to this discussion...

[duddbudda 33]

So what's that for an argument for using this outdated engine? It's not. We need something newer. As I said earlier in this thread I really do not care what engine, as long as it's not the current one. It's old and doesn't run as nearly as smooth as newer engines that only require half the resources ARMA II does and yet provide far better graphics and physics as well.

ok

rocket has said DayZ needs to be and will be standalone by the end of the year

that is impossible if he has to build everything onto a new engine he is less familiar with

rocket has also suggested that an ARMA 3 (RV4) standalone will begin development once the ARMA 2 (RV3) standalone is complete

why isn't it going straight to RV4? because RV4 isn't out of development yet, and won't be until early 2013

I've watched a lot of interviews recently, but I think this came from that one with the pocketsomething lass and also the dude with the lots of screens behind him showing GW2

Edited July 25, 2012 by Sandy

[timmoboy 39]

For those who wants to see how Arma 3/RV 4 engine looks like, watch these:

Here you get to see new animations (doesn't seem clunky at all), lightning etc.

Imo, this looks soo much better then CE3, UE4 you name it. It has that natural look to it.

[CarloNord 29]

If only Rocket didn't leave us hanging here and put an end to this discussion...

He obviously is watching this thread, but you know his saying!

Your tears are delicious.

[Sol (DayZ) 132]

I think you know nothing about development or business.

That's pretty funny.

I've been in development for over 7 months on a major project of zombie proportions. We should have a closed beta by the start of next year I hope.

I have had extensive experience in game development... you can also find me as a moderator in a game development community elsewhere online.

I'm also self employed and self funded.

I'm playing DayZ for research mainly, and I'm enjoying it a lot.

Not sure why you think I have no idea... but okay, continue thinking as you please.

~Sol

[Lap88 1]

If they uses cryengine3, dayz would be a standalone game, not a mod. And Dayz is a mod, not a game.

[Nexagelion 8]

If they uses cryengine3, dayz would be a standalone game, not a mod. And Dayz is a mod, not a game.

Did you read any of the rest of the thread or follow the development of Day Z at all? Day Z is going standalone. Its going to happen. Rocket has said so multiple times.

[Doomlord52 62]

I was actually concidering doing something like this (starting from scratch, of course). I've been using Cryengine for years (since 2007), and the new SDK is pretty amazing. Tech wise, it SHOULD be possible. The free SDK has a very flexible back-end, so there's no reason gameplay aspects or character saving would be hard. The only issue I can think of right now is making the map.

Let's do some testing (Im running the CE3 SDK as I type).

Chernarus is 225 square KM, which is essentially 15x15km. The closest thing Cryengine 3 can do is 16x16km, so we're looking at 256 square km. Slightly bigger, but (IMO) it would be an island, so the land-mass would be about the same. Right off the bat we've got a memory load of 853mb (or more) - this is WITHOUT any actual terrain, assets, or anything.

Now, let's generate some random terrain (using the generate terrain tool). We're now at around 1103mb of RAM used - and this is without terrain textures, vegetation, etc. Although the editor RAM usage might be high, the in-game usage is MUCH lower. For example, the default map (forest.cry) uses 630mb, but in the "pure game" version, its only 450mb (basically 25% less). As for the game file itself, you're looking at 250mb for just the terrain. Adding in assets, the engine itself, etc. you're llooking at probably 2-3gb.

Basically, it's technically possible, and I'd love to try it - however, the scale is just huge. I once worked on a 64km map (8x8), and it took MONTHS to get it to look decent.

If anyone is actually interested in trying it, I'd be all for it (I can help). My only concern is that we would need a fairly big team. The SDK comes with very little assets (enough for terrain, but that's it). We'd need player models, zombie models, vehichle models, weapon models, and the scripts for ALL of those things. Again, its possible, but it wouldn't be possible to one-man it within a reasonable amount of time.

/edit

As for legal concerns, this is where it would become interesting. Crytek will absolutely destroy anyone who rips assets from another game into their engine. They will also destroy anyone who profits off their assets. Basically: You'd need either entirelly new assets, or a deal with BI to allow for legally transfering the assets (good luck with that).

As for the engine itself, that's the easy part. If you released the game for free (or even donation based), you would have zero problems. Anyone right now can download the CE3 SDK off crydev.net and play around with it, and release whatever they make for free, without ever contacting Crytek or EA (provided you didn't break EULA). If you wanted to make money, it gets a bit more complex. For smaller games (i.e. Indie games, which this would technically be), you'd have to sign a deal with them giving them a 20% profit cut. Still, that's 80% profit. At $20 a copy, with (going by DayZ downloads) 800,000 sales, you've got yourself about 12 million. Even with a fraction of the sales, at $10 (lets say 100,000 sales), you're still looking at 800k.

Edited July 26, 2012 by Doomlord52

[Jng88Jng 5]

I don't really like the CryEngine. Everything looks so cartoony.

[Helsing 19]

I was actually concidering doing something like this (starting from scratch, of course). I've been using Cryengine for years (since 2007), and the new SDK is pretty amazing. Tech wise, it SHOULD be possible. The free SDK has a very flexible back-end, so there's no reason gameplay aspects or character saving would be hard. The only issue I can think of right now is making the map.

Let's do some testing (Im running the CE3 SDK as I type).

Chernarus is 225 square KM, which is essentially 15x15km. The closest thing Cryengine 3 can do is 16x16km, so we're looking at 256 square km. Slightly bigger, but (IMO) it would be an island, so the land-mass would be about the same. Right off the bat we've got a memory load of 853mb (or more) - this is WITHOUT any actual terrain, assets, or anything.

Now, let's generate some random terrain (using the generate terrain tool). We're now at around 1103mb of RAM used - and this is without terrain textures, vegetation, etc. Although the editor RAM usage might be high, the in-game usage is MUCH lower. For example, the default map (forest.cry) uses 630mb, but in the "pure game" version, its only 450mb (basically 25% less). As for the game file itself, you're looking at 250mb for just the terrain. Adding in assets, the engine itself, etc. you're llooking at probably 2-3gb.

Basically, it's technically possible, and I'd love to try it - however, the scale is just huge. I once worked on a 64km map (8x8), and it took MONTHS to get it to look decent.

If anyone is actually interested in trying it, I'd be all for it (I can help). My only concern is that we would need a fairly big team. The SDK comes with very little assets (enough for terrain, but that's it). We'd need player models, zombie models, vehichle models, weapon models, and the scripts for ALL of those things. Again, its possible, but it wouldn't be possible to one-man it within a reasonable amount of time.

/edit

As for legal concerns, this is where it would become interesting. Crytek will absolutely destroy anyone who rips assets from another game into their engine. They will also destroy anyone who profits off their assets. Basically: You'd need either entirelly new assets, or a deal with BI to allow for legally transfering the assets (good luck with that).

As for the engine itself, that's the easy part. If you released the game for free (or even donation based), you would have zero problems. Anyone right now can download the CE3 SDK off crydev.net and play around with it, and release whatever they make for free, without ever contacting Crytek or EA (provided you didn't break EULA). If you wanted to make money, it gets a bit more complex. For smaller games (i.e. Indie games, which this would technically be), you'd have to sign a deal with them giving them a 20% profit cut. Still, that's 80% profit. At $20 a copy, with (going by DayZ downloads) 800,000 sales, you've got yourself about 12 million. Even with a fraction of the sales, at $10 (lets say 100,000 sales), you're still looking at 800k.

Chernarus wasn't created by Rocket and has nothing to do with Day Z. It was already in Arma 2 and Rocket stole it and used it for Day Z. I'm pretty sure it takes just as long to make a map using the arma engine and it took a whole team to make chernarus.

[timmoboy 39]

Chernarus wasn't created by Rocket and has nothing to do with Day Z. It was already in Arma 2 and Rocket stole it and used it for Day Z. I'm pretty sure it takes just as long to make a map using the arma engine and it took a whole team to make chernarus.

Stole it? Are you stupid or what?

[Tusk (DayZ) 4]

Did you read any of the rest of the thread or follow the development of Day Z at all? Day Z is going standalone. Its going to happen. Rocket has said so multiple times.

Going stand alone does not mean you ditch the engine which is the soul of the game, it'll always use the RV engine, it would be stupid to rewrite the whole game for another engine, introducing new bugs in the process.

Edited July 26, 2012 by Tusk

[hulahuga 29]

Hey hey hey, listen, now I haven't actually done any mods for the RV engine, but you don't have to rewrite every line of code unless you've written very dependent and specialized code (which rocket has said he hasn't done). An engine change can be done, but yes, it will probably be easier to do it for the new RV engine, but CryEngine is a definite possibility. The critical aspect of the cryengine however is the optimization and block size loading, but that is just down to some clever programming, the engine can definitely take it :)

[timmoboy 39]

Unless Rocket or some known developer say it can be done I wont take anyone's word for it. And even if it's possible, to get the same feeling we have in DayZ in CE3 with realistic animation etc it would take a pretty fucking big development team and atleast a year to come up with anything playable.

[hulahuga 29]

Unless Rocket or some known developer say it can be done I wont take anyone's word for it. And even if it's possible, to get the same feeling we have in DayZ in CE3 with realistic animation etc it would take a pretty fucking big development team and atleast a year to come up with anything playable.

Lol, no? The animation work that is visible currently in the game is not that impressive in comparison, and you could dash something out very fast actually if you just do it iteratively ;)

[Nexagelion 8]

Going stand alone does not mean you ditch the engine which is the soul of the game, it'll always use the RV engine, it would be stupid to rewrite the whole game for another engine, introducing new bugs in the process.

*sigh* People fail at understanding so much. I never said a thing about the engine in that post. All I said is that that user clearly didnt read the rest of the thread or follow Day Z dev at all. The post I replied to clearly implies they think that Day Z is staying a mod, and as such how is it possible that CE3 could even be used. The person didnt understand the thread at all or the fact that it is going standalone. Rocket will prob stay with the RV engine. Im OK with this even though I would personally like to see it on CE3.

Do you think that when the game goes standalone they wont seriously change the base code of the engine? Of course they will. Currently they dont have that access. Day Z will have a slightly different feel when standalone even if on RV2/3 as a result of those chances.

[Doomlord52 62]

Chernarus wasn't created by Rocket and has nothing to do with Day Z. It was already in Arma 2 and Rocket stole it and used it for Day Z. I'm pretty sure it takes just as long to make a map using the arma engine and it took a whole team to make chernarus.

No, that's what im saying. He had a map to work from. Someone working in CE3 wont. That's what would make it so hard - not making the scripts, gameplay mechanics, etc. Just making the map itself (and making it look good) would take months.

[timmoboy 39]

@Hulahuga

With the animations I mean: seeing your legs while looking down, free look and not a Fucking floating camera. But sure, why don't you make CryZ in a couple of months and show us how great the game works for everyone.....

Edited July 26, 2012 by Timmooboy

[Nexagelion 8]

No, that's what im saying. He had a map to work from. Someone working in CE3 wont. That's what would make it so hard - not making the scripts, gameplay mechanics, etc. Just making the map itself (and making it look good) would take months.

You do realize that unless Bohemia is the "developer" in a full Day Z release, Rocket will have to license the use of Chenarus AS WELL AS the engine. That map doesnt come with the engine. And engine is an engine. The Chenarus map is IP of Bohemia. Going standalone means getting permission to use that map, OR building a new one.