Consequences of player killing - a new direction!

[subvision 14]

That being said I still very much enjoy the game 99% of the time, and I dont want to see pvp go away.

No one said, they don't want PvP. OK, some People, but thats not most of Players. The Point is that there should be a Kind of Punishment for Playerkillers. We all do not want to see PvP go away completely.

[DreamDragon 24]

But in third world countries they're often very stupid for quite some religious reasons, and of course others - hint: educations is bad for religion. I don't understand the comparison between third world and this mod, even though I understand what you're trying to say. Most player seems to be westerners in some sense, not saying that easterners or whatever are stupid, so one would perhaps witness a higher IQ and more reasonable behaviour then those third world soldier-boys with a ego so large that they would smoke you for having a glance at them. On the other hand social cultures that develops because of the material wealth tend to be quite stupefying and anti-educational.

Anyway off to what I really want to say.

If there's a problem with peoples doing PvP then one might perhaps investigate why this apparently would be a problem, especially in a game with FFA PvP.

The most common objections, to peoples that find this kind of PvP a problem, is patronising. Most cases of objection against the criticism and suggestions to PvP might read like this: "It's a game! Grow up and man up or get out! I wish to play this game as I want too and you have no right to punish me for it"! This is patronising because firstly the debater is insinuation that:

the one giving criticism isn't aware, or own the cognitive faculties, of that this is a game. Or isn't even capable of handling this truth.

Is also only giving criticism, to current system, because he/she would be unable to handle the unpleasant event of being killed without provoking such a drastic response. Also the one being the object of the response isn't able to change the situation, solve the problem, because they would lack some personal trait that these PvP:ers apparently are alone in possessing such a trait.

The debater, or the one replying to the criticism, is also insinuating that the ones behind such criticism is only doing so because they wish to unhindered punish PvP.ers around the world because of anger/frustration/bad character/jealousy/whatever - or simply that they're extremely bad players, also an common objection to this kind of criticism. That there isn't any strain of valid reasons behind their response to PvP because of personal deficiencies.

I could continue but I wish to end this rant of mine with a point why I bring this up.

The reasons why we clearly can see peoples posting suggestions or outright whines about PvP is because they've been killed more then enough. That is if they're actually giving this mod a try, as I have, and didn't rage quite the first death by a PvP:er. That, as I, have been slaughtered more then two or three dozen times clearly without provoking such a response from another player. That, as I, have seriously tried to look past this irritation and frustration of being the 'victim' for some players sad fascination with griefing.

That, as I, tries to accept the game for what it is, in this current stage, and its regards to PvP. The list goes on. But still, despite all of this, can't find the current system, or situation, involving PvP reasonable in regards to the event in the game. Trying to understand, or see the point being made, how this kind of players actually adds something to the game when one reads "But they add paranoia, fear and excitement when encountering other players". The only valid point in that statement seems to be, if shorten down to it's core, risk. The risk one takes when approaching another player that might be one of those that rather shoot first and asks later.

The same time they make that argument they seem to forget that "risk" can be added in much more immersive and reasonable ways then random shootings. The fear, paranoia, excitement or whatever when encountering another player should derive from is:

Scarcity of resources.

illnesses, if the player might hold valuable drugs.

Anger, that is if the player have angered you or others somehow.

Desperation.

The other player is armed, aka one with a gun might shoot if spooked/threatened.

Random banditry, that is about the resources not the killing.

High value targets, targets like a generator or a good shelter or whatever.

Panic, when fleeing from hordes of infected one might sacrifice you to survive even though you've just meet or in any other situation.

Accidents.

The list could be extended and fleshed out for sure but I do not wish to make this post too long. So with this I will end my rant and hope that I've made some valid points.

Take care.

[drseptapus 49]

There should be no punishment for PvP. You should just be able to identify a bandit and take action accordingly.

[elliotle 6]

I guess you weren't watching the same hurricane Katrina I was.

Yeah? So everybody who stayed in Hurricane Katrina killed everybody else they saw. Hmmm...sounds like the only people left in New Orleans are criminals then according to you.

[fish911503 136]

Yeah? So everybody who stayed in Hurricane Katrina killed everybody else they saw. Hmmm...sounds like the only people left in New Orleans are criminals then according to you.

Exactly...folks who play the "in a real breakdown of the system this is how it would be". Have you ever been in a disaster situation. Human history shows in situations like this people actually come together and support each other. Sure there are exceptions but they are just that...exceptions. In disaster situations the first thing people do is to try orginize and re-establish some system of order. So Rocket give some tools to do that please.. But maybe I am asking to much from a game design point of view. Because maybe this (deathmatch PVP) is really the only experience mmo sandbox games are capable of delivering. This is supposed to be the anti-game. But really its the same old thing. It's really really good. Maybe the best version yet of that same old thing. I was (and still am) hoping for more.

[BathSalts 4]

lol your 'response' only proves my point that you hold a dismissive attitude toward those who disagree.

You mock yourself and do not know it.

[kovalhuk 19]

This topic is going in the wrong way when religion began to be mentioned.

Now to the point of the topic,

In a world without laws, there's no Crime. So why punish someone for play a role that is not of your liking?

Is much like to say that a rabbit is a Good animal and a Coyote is an Evil animal.

If you choose to be a habbit in a world full of coyotes, man you are brave, but it is your choice.

Edited July 22, 2012 by kovalhuk

[Warhog (DayZ) 26]

I thought the game was about paranoia?

So if someone is travelling all the time alone, he will starting to get halluzinations like the OP said or when a group never encounters other human players, they will start seeing they're group mates as zombies or dead players.

It would count for survivor and bandit, so it would be fair for both parties.

[BathSalts 4]

Is everyone considering that as the game is now, it reflects pretty well how things would go IRL. If it hits the fan tomorrow, and there are people running around your city, there will be PLENTY of people without the conscience, or rather; with the twisted conscience enough to justify to themselves to shoot first and ask questions later. There are PLENTY of people who are ready to shoot you in the back IRL. But if you're smart and good and trustworthy and useful and not a politician type :) there will be plenty of people who will want/give you help. And if it hit the fan tomorrow, it would be like the game - there would be a bunch of people wandering around like zombies, complaining that it's unfair; there will be a bunch of military grade weapons aimed at you, there will be Survivors and Bandits and more, in fact Rocket should add a Rape option to the scroll menu, cuz there'll be plenty of that, too!

What there won't be is hallucinations from murder, audio hallucinations from murder, etc. because that doesn't happen in real life - it sometimes goes the other way around with the hallucinations and such coming first but as far as realism is concerned; I'm totally with Rocket that primarily this is a survival simulator, and in this game just like in real life it will eventually sort itself out because murderers who band together end up murdering each other somehow too, directly or indirectly through negligence, stupidity, selfishness and percieved invulnerability, or fucking with the wrong group of Survivors. Survivors that just deal with what comes, including what is percieved as unfair to other, weaker characters- will ultimately triumph even with their losses.

As this game evolves, so will the gameplay - we'll bash it out in the forums until we get it right. And maybe we learn something in the process. A few months from now we will have figured out a way to do it, and it will happen naturally.

Edited July 22, 2012 by BathSalts

[BathSalts 4]

No one said, they don't want PvP. OK, some People, but thats not most of Players. The Point is that there should be a Kind of Punishment for Playerkillers. We all do not want to see PvP go away completely.

The Playstyle is punishment though, really if you think about it. "Survival Simulator" - Bandits are played by a type of person that exist IRL, not crazy insane murder type necessarily - but there are a lot of lazy, stupid, ignorant, hateful people play this game and love to grief and usually end up playing in dumb groups you'll see running around at the airfield. And there are a bunch of other lazy types who just want the game itself to punish players who don't play the game the way they want it played. Rocket is going to make it harder and harder for bandit types to not succeed; and he's going to do it by introducing more tools, not game mechanics or sanity meters - so that it's up to you and me to combat those types in-game ourselves. This game became popular because of the freedom it allows in the open world, and because it leaves SO much to your own imagination!

And you guys are asking for that freedom to be restricted with a mechanic that would probably only cause every one to bug out and lose their gear if it ever actually made it into an update?????

Just so that, what, you feel like 'something' is done to get even with those assholes? Those assholes EXIST!

Now that's REALISM!

[Sol (DayZ) 132]

BathSalts is unfortunately right. People like this do exist, and when the real zombie apocalypse happens I will be avoiding any unknown human contact like it was AIDS. I'm far more scared of the weirdo down the street than a zombie... the only thing stopping the weirdo now is "civilisation". Once that's gone, then what's stopping him?

Use this as an extended learning experience on the behaviour of the average sheep you meet from now, until you die.

~Sol

[elliotle 6]

Is everyone considering that as the game is now, it reflects pretty well how things would go IRL. If it hits the fan tomorrow, and there are people running around your city, there will be PLENTY of people without the conscience, or rather; with the twisted conscience enough to justify to themselves to shoot first and ask questions later. There are PLENTY of people who are ready to shoot you in the back IRL. But if you're smart and good and trustworthy and useful and not a politician type :) there will be plenty of people who will want/give you help. And if it hit the fan tomorrow, it would be like the game - there would be a bunch of people wandering around like zombies, complaining that it's unfair; there will be a bunch of military grade weapons aimed at you, there will be Survivors and Bandits and more, in fact Rocket should add a Rape option to the scroll menu, cuz there'll be plenty of that, too!

What there won't be is hallucinations from murder, audio hallucinations from murder, etc. because that doesn't happen in real life - it sometimes goes the other way around with the hallucinations and such coming first but as far as realism is concerned; I'm totally with Rocket that primarily this is a survival simulator, and in this game just like in real life it will eventually sort itself out because murderers who band together end up murdering each other somehow too, directly or indirectly through negligence, stupidity, selfishness and percieved invulnerability, or fucking with the wrong group of Survivors. Survivors that just deal with what comes, including what is percieved as unfair to other, weaker characters- will ultimately triumph even with their losses.

As this game evolves, so will the gameplay - we'll bash it out in the forums until we get it right. And maybe we learn something in the process. A few months from now we will have figured out a way to do it, and it will happen naturally.

You are wrong. I'm a psychologist. I have actually had to shoot someone. You know nothing. You ARE nothing. I am extremely intelligent and you are warped and slow.

[heretic (DayZ) 76]

lol your 'response' only proves my point that you hold a dismissive attitude toward those who disagree.

You mock yourself and do not know it.

No. My response is appropriate based upon your misconceived perceptions of my original and subsequent posts. Your pseudo psychological accusations against my personal character, rather than reasoned, cogent argument against my ideas, invalidate any claim you may place on me for any other reply.

Any response I make to you, including this one, will merely be twisted and used by you as a means of supporting your views.

Under these circumstances, I choose to "not feed the trolls". Just as I choose not to engage in pointless effing, blinding, written abuse and childish name calling.

You can choose to interpret this and any of my other posts in any way you wish. However, just remember, that you saying something is so, does not make it so!

Obvious troll is obvious!

[Poor Yurik 8]

So what you are suggesting is that everyone who pvps comes down with a sudden case of schizophrenia.

This is a terrible idea. You would have a pack of bandit friends playing together, and all of them are trying to talk over each of their characters freaking out when they are perfectly calm and collected.

You need to come to terms with the fact that there are such thing as remorseless killers in the world, and there would be even more so in a lawless, apocalyptic environment. People who kill others, even those that feel remorse, don't suddenly become Isaac from Dead Space.

[KWilt 157]

So what you are suggesting is that everyone who pvps comes down with a sudden case of schizophrenia.

No. He's suggesting that everyone who kills another person, whether in PvP or in self defense, comes down with a sudden case of schizophrenia.

[heretic (DayZ) 76]

So what you are suggesting is that everyone who pvps comes down with a sudden case of schizophrenia.

This is a terrible idea. You would have a pack of bandit friends playing together, and all of them are trying to talk over each of their characters freaking out when they are perfectly calm and collected.

You need to come to terms with the fact that there are such thing as remorseless killers in the world, and there would be even more so in a lawless, apocalyptic environment. People who kill others, even those that feel remorse, don't suddenly become Isaac from Dead Space.

Could I suggest that you read some of the stories in this thread;

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/22703-day-z-urban-legends/

I wouldn't choose to describe any of the posters as describing schizophrenia! Would you?

[BathSalts 4]

Lol BS

[Ankhenaten 111]

Do not discuss and shoot and hunt:

Girl chars, chars with sniper weapons, chars with ghillie suits.

[DreamDragon 24]

Under current circumstances the game lacks quite many tools that would add to a more complex and truthful experience. Now the game only can offer nothing more then: PvP, griefing, easy survival in a extremely hostile environment, low sociability, no treat from the infected, no true need for planing ahead etc.

I wish to see greater challenge then that some lowly griefers can offer.

[Steven89 22]

u know why i kill ? because the voices in my head say so :D

[Dimes123 60]

hearing things like this should part of the result of losing humanity.

[TurtleMadness 5]

Oh my god. I LOVE THIS! Now you have a choice, be a pacifist, or shit your pants. I would love to see this.

[naizarak 41]

no artificial penalties for pvp, no matter how rare they would be