Consequences of player killing - a new direction!

[heretic (DayZ) 76]

i would like to make it clear from the outset, I personally have no objections to PvP as it stands. This post is NOT about penalising players that kill other players. It is about the consequences of player killing and how they might be incorporated into DayZ in an authentic manner.

This idea was born from reading some of the posts on this great thread; http://dayzmod.com/f...-urban-legends/

This got me to thinking that it would be an interesting twist to player killing, to attempt to model the effects of conscience on those that kill others without punishing them.

In essence, my suggestion is that each character has a small percentage chance of experiencing an "event" during a gaming session. That small percentage chance increases, as a characters number of murders rises.

e.g. A character with 1 murder might have a 0.1% chance of an event occurring. A character with 25 murders might have a 0.5% chance of an event occuring etc. (Figures are examples only).

These events could be of the following nature;

• Hearing footsteps following you. Stopping & starting when you do. But there's nothing there.
  
• Hearing voices. "I/we see you". "We know what you've done". "We're coming". "Remember us". "They're here". etc. etc. etc.
  
• Other auditory hallucinations. Gunshots etc. (Thanks to Rafael - BR - Friendly for the suggestion)
  
• Seeing something out of the corner of your eye / at the edge of the screen that you can never bring into focus.
  
• Full scale apparitions, figures that appear/disappear and/or follow you at different times.
  

These events should only be visible/audible to the character concerned and should have no effect other than to unsettle that character and make them more paranoid.

If done subtly, I think that this could provide an interesting game mechanic to the survival horror genre depicted in DayZ.

Many thanks to those that have already expressed an interest in this idea.

Your thoughts please!

Edited July 18, 2012 by heretic

[Bunster 7]

Hmm the voices might be a touch to far i think xD

[Al Capone 49]

Sounds like really freaking unique, but also.. I believe it would be quite annoying. I don't really know if I'd wish this being added. Some of these people in Day Z, roleplay their characters being ex-soldiers and shit. Well, Day Z is afterall a very realistic game.

I'd say the idea itself is pretty good, but I don't wanna see it added, mainly because of the fact that I'd prolly be very annoyed by it.

[thermonuke1@gmail.com 110]

Not needed and pointless as well as a waste of valuable programming time better spent coding more enjoyable features.

I shoot anyone on sight simply because most others do too.

When will people get that the scariest part of this game is that you might get nailed by a 50 cal from a mile out while trying to grab that oh so valuable Bizon off that downed chopper.

Zombies dont even bother me. Ill just run right through a town and grab what ever I need and gtfo.

Its the players that get my heart racing. Every time.

Id really rather see rocket patching bugs and adding content than finding ways to grief bandits for the very few who want to see them punished.

Kill or be killed..

Survival of the fittest.

Edited July 20, 2012 by ThermoNuke

[seriousman 9]

You'll never see anything even remotely sophisticated on this engine. This is a zombie game and even the zombies won't work properly xD

[AluCaRdBe 32]

I agree that it would be a nice idea, but it would change the concept of the game into a more meant-to-be-scary-game isntead of a scary-by-accident (yes i tend to shit my pants whe i get shot at in the middle of nowhere when i least expect it).

It isn't the goal of this game, regardless if it would be nice or not ( i think it would be, but it will have the same effect on me as F.E.A.R -> i'll pussy out after 30 mins and never go near it ever again.)

[starwarsfan@gmx.de 450]

It still is a penalty for killing though and surely not a 'new direction' if you've read some of the suggestion threads about this.

Also the coonciousness factor should decrease the more people you kill, as with most things this is something you get 'used to' doing. Maybe when you kill the first time you have a chance of entering some kind of shocked state but not sure wether that'd really be a game enhancing mechanic.

[Quaby 93]

This is far from original dude. The insanity element has been suggested thousands of times. Oh yeah, and you said you didn't want to penalize bandits? Well, looks like you just did. Annoying the shit out of them because they want to kill other players...never gonna happen

[xDIx Revenge 51]

I like the idea of adding more horror. And ive seen a few suggestions of "hallucinations" or something similar. I think the only way it should be introduced is while starving/dying of thirst/overheated.

It is realistic for humans to experience hallucinations while starving/dying of thirst or being overheated. But these aren't like a haunting. These survivors are meant to be a rise up, to reform society, not necessarily just to be crazed, PTSD Soldiers KOS all they see. Sure they are traumatised by the infection, but they live another day, and strive to make the world a better place (at least in my mind). Your ideas sound too much like an "Amnesia" style of game. Where it is MADE to scare you, while you play through its scripted, and forced storyline. DayZ is different.

Whereas if you let yourself starve/overheat or don't drink, maybe seeing a mirage of a helicopter, or something in the distance, only to run up and see it disappear into dust. That would be alright, and realistic, and not haunt players for killing (possibly even in self defense). However if paranoia and stress levels were ever introduced, hearing foot-steps or seeing blurs on your screen would be pretty neat. Voices and apparitions is too much though.

[o_grande_rafael 24]

i think the best would be the murderer hearing aluccinatory gunshots or nearby bullet hits once in a while, then getting in "supressed" state. something like postraumatic or trench disorder.

edit: perhaps the "peripheric green dots" of players on the screen edge :D

Edited July 18, 2012 by Rafael -BR- Friendly

[heretic (DayZ) 76]

My bad. I evidently didn't make it clear enough that this is not about penalising player killers/bandits specifically. It is a suggested mechanism that would apply to all equally whether survivor or bandit.

It is about making players paranoid, nervous, twitchy and increasingly uncomfortable without any specific in game penalty. If that annoys players, bandit or not, isn't that what a conscience does in real life? Isn't it a nagging voice in the back of your mind that refuses to allow you to forget past misdeeds? isn't it also what player killers often do to those that they kill? Annoyance, frustration and evoking emotions are according to Rocket himself, some of the stated aims in this mod.

Furthermore, I think that the level of annoyance should actually be quite small. I am not suggesting these events should happen all of the time. I am suggesting that there should be a small chance of them occurring occasionally. Just enough to fuel paranoia, evoke an emotional response and to provide experiences similar to those described in the DayZ urban myths thread.

Additionally, if I had killed x number of people in real life, even as a hardened killer, I would expect my level of paranoia to be significantly increased. Even if in truth I only expected others to seek vengeance against me.

This idea is not about sanity/insanity. Most of the threads that deal with sanity/insanity suggest in game penalties, like taking "happy pills" etc. This is about conscience and an authentic* approach to modelling this in-game without specific penalty except for increasing player paranoia and discomfort.

As to conscience having a greater effect on a first time killer. I agree. And I did consider inverting the idea so that first time killers are more effected by the possible events. I think that further thought is required regarding this.

Having auditory hallucinations such as gunshots etc, rather than or in addition to spectral voices etc. is definitely a good idea. Whether that should trigger a shock/PTSD type reaction in a character may be a little outside the scope of this suggestion, as I am specifically attempting to avoid in-game penalties, other than to increase player discomfort/paranoia.

Thanks for your thoughts.

*Please note that Rockets own choice of words to describe DayZ is authentic rather than realistic!

Edited July 18, 2012 by heretic

[Joseph15 2]

I think this would be a very interesting aspect to the game if it were added. The only problem I have with it is that it my draw players away from the game... if I hear a gunshot, I'll stay online and run away. As for others, if they hear gunshots, they log out immediately.

If people are constantly or even every now and then hearing gunshots because of paranoia they will stop playing. I don't think any audio should be introduced into this "paranoia" theme you are trying to go for. I do think there should be small spirits or something going across your screen some time, not just in the corner but where you can fully see it, very rarely though. If it were in the corner of your screen I think people might think it is a player and disconnect.

Honestly sounds just seem more of a deterrent of players than anything. It needs to be sort of obvious but not disconnect and never come back sort of thing.

[heretic (DayZ) 76]

i don't know that any player that DC's at the sound of gunfire is really going to be missed too much. Additionally with this being based on the number of murders a character has, the likelihood is that the player concerned is more likely to start looking for their next player kill rather than DC.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[Riiquiem 35]

Hmm that's actually a very big punishment.

You may call it "consequences" but it would make the game unplayable for PVPers like me.

You would be distracted the whole time, impossible to actually enjoy the game.

I do like the idea though but I don't think this is the right game for something like this.

DayZ is not a horror game and shouldn't be treated as such. Shooting people is the only thing you can do in this game when you're geared up, why destroy that?

[khknight 3]

So basically you want to scare the living shit out of them?

[datguy (DayZ) 157]

Dear Rocket,

Why not just give up this attempt to make something unique, lose the zombies and just make it yet another boring fucking deathmatch ™ only on a bigger than usual map.

Why waste you time attempting to do something unique, when according to one tard, EVERYONE wants the same shitty game play they get from every other fucking shooter on the market? Why ass about with having to eat or drink? Why the fuck do i have to find ammo? I just want to run around and shoot people. So does simply everyone else.

And if they don't, fuck those carebear pussies. If you even try to offer anyone else a different gaming experience, I will come in there and grief the fucking shit out of everyone else for not playing the way I want them to play.

Also, take guns off everyone except me. People who shoot back are hacking.

Survival of the fittest yo.

even if you're fucking retarded.

Edited July 18, 2012 by datguy

[o_grande_rafael 24]

Shooting people is the only thing you can do in this game when you're geared up, why destroy that?

i would like to help people to gear up/survive, but i am afraid once they have a gun they would shoot me just for the fun of it.

i would like, also, to have some long term goals, like a SAR (search and rescue) team with choppers and motorbikes, a camp for trading goodies and stuff. hunting bandits (oh, sorry, they are caled PvP players these days of political correctedness) when they apear on the server...

[heretic (DayZ) 76]

So basically you want to scare the living shit out of them?

I figure that to be an appropriate emotional response? i think spook them occasionally would be a better way of describing the idea. But bascically... HELL YEAH! :huh:

[heretic (DayZ) 76]

Hmm that's actually a very big punishment.

You may call it "consequences" but it would make the game unplayable for PVPers like me.

You would be distracted the whole time, impossible to actually enjoy the game.

I do like the idea though but I don't think this is the right game for something like this.

DayZ is not a horror game and shouldn't be treated as such. Shooting people is the only thing you can do in this game when you're geared up, why destroy that?

Could I just request that you reread my original post. If an occasional scary/spooky moment occurs, how could that distract you all the time? How could that make the game unplayable for you?

Making you paranoid, twitchy and nervous is the idea of this suggestion. Not such a game breaking penalty, when you consider that these traits are what keep you alive in DayZ anyway!

Edited July 18, 2012 by heretic

[Huuwap 25]

So basically this is another thread requesting a game mechanic for something the player may already be feeling. OK

As my kill counter goes up, survival time increases, and I find better loot, my paranoia level goes up. When I spawn, I go to a city and loot mediocre crap. If I die, oh well. But as soon as I get a bit of gear my attitude toward the game completely changes, survival means something. As time goes on and I accumulate more gear and kills, I become much more paranoid. I imagine this is true for most players - you don't want to lose your time investment and have to start from square one. That either eventually puts you entirely out of the action because you don't want to lose what you have, or you slip up and take a risk and pay for it. Then you're on the coast again.

I really don't understand why people want to make this game limiting as is. Now I'm really confused over why in the world you would want to simulate a human emotion that already exists in the player.

[sticky 7]

I like it, I do think it could be simplified into a Sanity Meter: players start at 100 sanity, every murder subtracts 5 sanity, every hour spent completely alone (no one in direct com distance) subtracts 1 sanity point*. Sanity points can be restored via teamwork, simply killing zombies within direct com distance of another player gives +1 sanity per zombie (I would suggest giving blood transfusions but that could be easily exploitable). This could slow the rampant popularity of PVP for sport while giving legit bandit groups a fairly easy opportunity to remain sane, also the slow decay of ones mind while totally alone in the zombie apocalypse would not be unrealistic and could help promote cooperation. *Note that a 30 second conversation is all that is needed to prevent the -1 sanity for a whole hour.

At Sanity level 90: Players have a 0.1% chance of hallucinating footsteps, breathing or heartbeat.

At 80: Players have a 0.3% chance of hallucinating distant gunfire, or zombie snarls.

At 70: Players have a 0.5% chance of hallucinating voices, particularly accusations.

At 60: Players have a 0.7% chance of hallucinating brief visuals, flashes of light/dark, human-shaped shadows, etc.

At 50: Players have a 1.0% chance of hallucinating apparitions, players pointing weapons, or a player who's back is always facing you.

At 10: Player vision is unstable, colors constantly change and pulse, focus sharpens and blurs, perspective warps, basically a bad trip.

At 0: Player commits suicide (this is after 20 murders or 100 hours completely alone or a combination of the 2).

[Huuwap 25]

I gave you my beans because you're obviously malnourished and need to eat something. I believe you're delusional. Jesus christ, these suggestions.

/facepalm

[o_grande_rafael 24]

I really don't understand why people want to make this game limiting as is. Now I'm really confused over why in the world you would want to simulate a human emotion that already exists in the player.

well, some people are just psycopatic fellows and have fun by shooting others from far way just because they can/may. i believe the game is about the surviving enviroment/history. if you want just to kill each other, make a free for all server/mod. you dont need the whole zombie background history.

[edit] thereafter you must have a "in game" consience to control there boring murderers [/edit]

i believe these so called PvPlayers are a bunch of "psychos-to-be", lacking all kind of empathy and looking for their own bellybuttons. Perhaps it is what will happen if a true appocalipse arises...

Rocket said the humanity is out of the game only temporarily. it will be back and these kind of discussion is very important, IMHO.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Rafael -BR- Friendly

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

Rocket said the humanity is out of the game only temporarily. it will be back and these kind of discussion is very important, IMHO.

He also said he would rather shut the game down than implement rules or punishments for styles of play, including PvP.

Making people go insane is a punishment.

So, yes, discussions are important but they should stay focused on suggestions that are realistic and take into consideration the things that rocket has said he will and will not be doing with the mod.

This is not one of those suggestions.

Insanity is an interesting idea, but arbitrarily applying it to people who kill other players or those who choose to play alone are both a means of punishing people for playing a particular way. So it's just not going to happen in this way. Period. End of discussion.

Everyone in Chernarus is exposed every day to all manner of horrors. Zombies are people too, you know? You are literally slaughtering town after town. Wiping out entire populations. Spilling guts and splashing brains all day every fucking day. The models aren't there, but you can assume among the infected are women, children, eldery people, etc.

And the corpses. You don't think about the corpses.

They would be everywhere. Zombies would be piled halfway up the sides of buildings. Rotting. The stink would be in your clothes. And those who weren't done the courtesy of becoming infected. Partially eaten bodies. Entrails dangling from fences. Flayed flesh drying in the sun like curing leather.

So yeah let's talk about insanity.

Lets talk about how everyone in the fucking game would already be crazy.

Edited July 18, 2012 by ZedsDeadBaby

[zeeb 6]

Feels unrealistic, but hey as they all say, they cant make a complete blood transfusion in seconds IRL.

EDIT: By the way, if you're really concerned about PVPers/Snipers then you should just develope some skill to avoid/counter them, afterall, we all want a difficult game..

Edited July 18, 2012 by Demnish