Post apacolyptic greifing simulator for D-bags

[skyter 299]

no

it works, but thats the fun of the game working out if they are a bandit or not, post appolcalypse everyones running around in the same smelly crap covered clothing they have been wearing for weeks so your not gonna know if that guys gonna cave your head in with an axe, share his beans with you, or drop the can of beans then cave your skull in when you bend down to pick them up

its rather unlikley theres a special bandits costume for hire store, so how do you tell the good guysfrom the bad when they all look alike? and thats why the bandit skins were removed, we all have the same advantage/disadvantage were on an equal footing, theres nothing to balance so no need to jam stuff in to try and balance it

And we're back to shooting on sight, AGAIN.

Go away. It's not an equal footing. If I choose not to kill i'm dramatically increasing the chances of me dieing (-). If a bandit chooses TO kill me he now has all my shit and a much lower chance of dieing (+).

Anyway you spin it, killing players on sight is the least negative/most beneficial.

So the game is encouraging player killing for the sake of player killing.

You see where this is going?

Edited July 17, 2012 by skyter

[fish911503 136]

The consequence for theft and murder is that you have just as much of a chance of having it done to you, how is that hard to understand?

It's why I generally try to avoid survivors outside my group. I don't kill without provocation, and many times, I'll get the drop on another and wait until they move on in an attempt to avoid conflict and not be a "griefing douche."

Also ,why do you need to rely on some externalized game mechanism when you can dispense your own justice by firing back? I know that you may not always be able to because sometimes you get killed outright, but those are the situations where you acknowldege that you made a mistake and you try to learn from it by adjusting your behavior.

I have yet to see evidence that a "large majority" support the claims you guys want.

I would rather see things left as they are with relation to the player models, but transition to a more static server model for a standalone game.

I think that the anonymity provided by the game combined with nomadic server hopping contributes to rampant banditry more than anything else.

It also limits the development of server based communities that could be formed under a more static model. These communities could decide their own solutions to bandits (if they even wanted to pursue some sort of bandit policing measures).

I feel that this would be more in keeping with the sandbox nature of the game and allow the server communities to determine their own levels of tolerance for banditry.

A. having an equal chance of being killed is not a consequence. Look up the definition of the word

B. The "mistake" that i made always having been that i did not shoot on sight. (which sucks for me)

C. I said large MINORITY. not majority. (im just sayin)

D. OK (with regard to your opinions what is exacerbating the banditry issue) so you admit it is an issue. Lets discuss it as community and work something out. Rather than just calling people pussies and telling them to go cry somewhere else

[RoRogely 5]

And we're back to shooting on sight, AGAIN.

Go away. It's not an equal footing. If I choose not to kill i'm dramatically increasing the chances of me dieing (-). If a bandit chooses TO kill me he now has all my shit and a much lower chance of dieing (+).

Anyway you spin it, killing players on sight is the least negative/most beneficial.

So the game is encouraging player killing for the sake of player killing.

You see where this is going?

What is your obsession with pussyifing this game?

[fish911503 136]

so no special mechanic neede for this, its the game we have now

so we add a mechanic to torture and maime people, obviously only the good guys can do this becasue only good guys torture people right? and then ...? you see someone from 300 meters away think a tiny B scar on thier face is gonna show? so now you gotta get closer .. and then they shoot ya

so the 2 possibles youve given one is pointless and the other already exists

neither of these will spoil thier fun or yours, but neither of them were what you were asking for earlier

in fact it seems like all your really want is some way to get a bit of revenge

You see rather than just respond to what i say you make assumptions about what Im REALLY saying and equate it to some sort of moral issue and what would happen in the real world. I never brought morality into it. You just think that your baiting me into going yeah I want revenge so you can scream hypocrite. But as i said I never said anything about morality or good and bad or any of that shit. That just you being programmed like a $10 alarm clock by previous posts. If you are capable taking my words for nothing more than my words and having a logical sane discussion about im happy to. But if you are going to be all loopy and weird and project all your shit onto it then theres no point in us talking

[skyter 299]

Bandit skin was removed because it was too easy to become a bandit without BEING a bandit. So the bandits complained and it got removed. You don't think it can work the other way around? You take the normal white and black vested survivor outfit, put a little blood spatter on it so it can be seen relatively close, but not too far. It's a perfect solution that Dean's even mentioned. Yet no one responds to that, only how "unfair" branding bandits, bandits would be. Here's an idea - stop terrorizing people or accept the consequences of said actions. But no, it's easier to devolve the game into a free for all death match and flame anybody who speaks out in favor of the old system.

[fish911503 136]

no im really leasving...for awhile

[lonewolf12 25]

I think the op is expressing a very real sentiment

[socom77 36]

alpha, muthafucka, you heard of it? of course there's gonna be bugs.

this isn't CoD or BF3 when dying is no sweat. you die, lose your stuff, and start over. that's just the way she goes. it's the nature of the game.

the idea of the game is that you literally do whatever you want. if you wanna be a bandit, go ahead. if you wanna be friendly, go ahead. if you wanna run around the woods by yourself, if you wanna befriend then betray people, anything goes. why punish people for playing the game?

btw, CRY MOAR

[skyter 299]

What is your obsession with pussyifing this game?

WTF is your problem. You're not making any point, just shitting on other people. "pussyfying the game" give me a fucking break.

HOW ABOUT YOU RESPOND TO THE BLOODY CLOTHING SUGGESTION INSTEAD OF BEING AN ASSHOLE x100 AND CONVENIENTLY IGNORING IT.

[Ozark 3]

Bandit skin was removed because it was too easy to become a bandit without BEING a bandit. So the bandits complained and it got removed. You don't think it can work the other way around? You take the normal white and black vested survivor outfit, put a little blood spatter on it so it can be seen relatively close, but not too far. It's a perfect solution that Dean's even mentioned. Yet no one responds to that, only how "unfair" branding bandits, bandits would be. Here's an idea - stop terrorizing people or accept the consequences of said actions. But no, it's easier to devolve the game into a free for all death match and flame anybody who speaks out in favor of the old system.

The blood on clothing is an idea I actually like. It could also be added to anyone who loots a recently killed player, not just the killer. It would add a reason to doubt people you meet. But once again removing much of the snipping from this game is also needed.

[RoRogely 5]

WTF is your problem. You're not making any point, just shitting on other people. "pussyfying the game" give me a fucking break.

HOW ABOUT YOU RESPOND TO THE BLOODY CLOTHING SUGGESTION INSTEAD OF BEING AN ASSHOLE x100 AND CONVENIENTLY IGNORING IT.

I did reply to it. The first time you posted it. I said that would be ok but only because rocket said it would only last a hour or so.

Anything permanent would be carebear.

[kraut 7]

LoL

The player killing is fine, the goal is to survive, for me, its easier to kill you and take your gear than find my own, that is realistic.

If you don't happen to have any gear I need, then oh well, still get another notch on my .50

Quit your bitching, or leave, it doesn't sound like you belong in ArmA anyway...

Also, the skins were already addressed by rocket

It is not realistic that a bandit would single themselves out by wearing special gear.

You wouldn't wear a Nazi uniform in Israel would you?

Edited July 17, 2012 by Kraut

[amudkipz 46]

Well the use of any out-of-game voice chat among close friends is never going to stop. But giving bandits a huge "Omg, I kill people flag" is a lackluster and unfun game mechanic. The need for mystery among players is needed to create a sense of tension. And since my post back on page three was buried under all the childish fighting I'll repost the main point here:

Where the problem lies is in some of the fundamental mechanics in the game. A few ways I've read that would help lessen the rampant killing in the game (there is no way to stop it at all, nor should there be) is first to lessen access to high grade military loot (and specifically sniper rifles and NV goggles). And while there does need to be some change to the grouping system in game, a way to get in contact with other players is highly needed. The best and most "design" friendly way to accomplish this would be with in game radios (walkie-talkies, ETC.) to allow players to communicate over longer ranges to eliminate some of the danger of close personal encounters. There would still be the danger of meeting someone in "person" but it would allow as Rocket has stated many times: "a person's real life skills to translate to in game skills." If you are good at conversing and knowing if a person is lying then you would have an advantage in meeting other friendly players. An other option would be to have an as of now undetermined chance to destroy items when you shoot someone. (Bullets tend to break things). This would also have a positive impact in reducing the overall quantity of good gear in the game.

It wouldn't have to be a flag, maybe a different colored shoe lace or a small scar on a hand.

Edited July 17, 2012 by amudkipz

[DeltaElite121 16]

What is your obsession with pussyifing this game?

Attacking someone else's opinion doesn't exactly put more weight into yours. There's nothing wrong with being a bandit in this game necessarily, but it is a GAME and that aspect is not balanced currently towards multiple avenues of play.. something that is pivotal in a "sandbox" style game. I personally don't see an issue with making changes. Being a bandit offers vast rewards, but for balance - there should also be vast drawbacks for such an aggressive playstyle. Currently - there isn't any. The same should be said for being "the good guy". It also needs to have it's drawbacks, but currently - there's almost no reason to be that type of player because there's ONLY drawbacks.

Look at EVE Online, for example.. being a Pirate offers a ton for rewarding the player... but it also identifies you as a major target to everyone else that ISN'T a pirate.. thus they might work together to kill you. They might also not get good loot as fast as you, either. It's a double-edged sword, yet it's still balanced. That's what this alpha stage of the game is for.. figuring things out.

[Ozark 3]

It wouldn't have to be a flag, maybe a different colored shoe lace or a small scar on a hand.

I actually enjoy the blood on clothing idea to identify players who have killed and looted others. It could even be persistent until a person enters water or is in a rain storm. But this will not work on players who just kill for "fun" and never even check the loot.

[skyter 299]

alpha, muthafucka, you heard of it? of course there's gonna be bugs.

this isn't CoD or BF3 when dying is no sweat. you die, lose your stuff, and start over. that's just the way she goes. it's the nature of the game.

the idea of the game is that you literally do whatever you want. if you wanna be a bandit, go ahead. if you wanna be friendly, go ahead. if you wanna run around the woods by yourself, if you wanna befriend then betray people, anything goes. why punish people for playing the game?

btw, CRY MOAR

QQ moron, learn to read before you spout off garbage /

Am I saying remove any of that? NO!

Am I complaining about bugs, NO! In fact I'm fine with the bugs as this is alpha. They can be fixed. Current player interaction cannot.

The more populated servers become the higher the shoot on site mentality will become, the less enjoyable the game will be.

If every player is automatically hostile to other players, it removes the situational tension. It simply becomes see player, kill player to be safe.

Some tweak is needed to add some sort of risk/reward to banditry

Edited July 17, 2012 by skyter

[Dasein808 12]

A. having an equal chance of being killed is not a consequence. Look up the definition of the word

It's a potential consequence for your would-be killer.

Btw, why don't you look up "post-apocalyptic" and try and grasp why there should be no in-game consequence for murder in a lawless society.

B. The "mistake" that i made always having been that i did not shoot on sight. (which sucks for me)

No, your mistake was letting them see you. Don't show yourself to strangers and you'll find your life expectancy increases dramatically (in the same that way it would IRL under similar circumstances).

D. OK (with regard to your opinions what is exacerbating the banditry issue) so you admit it is an issue. Lets discuss it as community and work something out. Rather than just calling people pussies and telling them to go cry somewhere else

I never called you a "pussy," but I did generalize in the sense that I felt that the proposed suggestions were too mainstream in light of everything that has made this mod what it is (i.e. different from the mainstream market precisely through its unwilllingness to hold the players' hands (permadeath) using candy coated features (bandit skins))

You'll have to get back to me when you work out a "fix" for human nature.

In the meantime, my most hands off proposal would be static servers to help facilitate more cohesive communities who can deal with it (or don't) as they see fit.

As many have already pointed out, it's always going to be part of the game (I think it should be as well because when combined with the permadeath aspect, it's a large part of what makes it more exciting to play than other games). I just think that the current server structure promotes banditry in players that might not otherwise participate if they knew they would be dealing with more or less the same server population (i.e. promoting the sense of accountability that you're requesting without resorting to changing actual design mechanics)

Edited July 17, 2012 by Dasein808

[wutitdo 19]

All you need to know is.

YOU WILL LOSE YOU'RE SHIT FROM SERVER WIPES/ROLLBACKS/RESTARTS/WTFEVAR

YOU WILL BREAK UR BONES IF YOU CLOSE DOORS TO CLOSE TO YOU

ALT + F4 IS MASSIVELY ABUSED

DISCONNECTING RUNNING BEHIND SOMEONE BECAUSE UR A NATURAL BORN PUSSY OR BECAUSE PEOPLE DO IT TO YOU AND YOU JUST DONT GIVE A F^&$ ANYMORE

RELOAD GLITCHING UR PISTOL AMMO AT 1 BULLET BACK TO SIX OR ANY OTHER CLIP THATS NOT HALFWAY DONE

NOOBS CRYING ABOUT CAMPERS IT'S A GOD DAMN DEATHMATCH GAME YOU WANNA BE A PUSSY LIKE THEM? SERVER HOP NW AIRFIELD CAMP ON STARRY SOBOR HILL CAMP BALOTA OR HIDE OUT IN CHERNO THIS IS WHERE THEY HANG OUT AVOID THESE PLACES NO MORE PROBLEMS.

CRYING ABOUT YOU'RE SUPER SECRET CAMP GETTING RAIDED HEY RETARDS THE SERVER'S ARE ON 24/7 MOST OF THE TIME PEOPLE PLAY AT DIFFERENT TIMES PEOPLE RUN ACCROSS SHIT AND FIND SHIT PEOPLE SERVER JUMP JUST TO RAID CAMPS YOU'RE CAMP WILL BE RAIDED NO MATTER HOW GOOD YOU ARE HIDING IT.

MASSIVE RETARDS HACKING THE SHIT OUT OF DAYZ AND FLYING HELOS AND CRASHING AND WALKING OUT WITHOUT A SCRATCH AND TELEPORTING OTHER PLAYERS TO DIFFERENT ZONES ON THE MAP OR KILLING THEM OR DEBUG FORREST KILLING THEM AND THEY CANT STOP IT?

i dont care though really guys.... the mod is like 2 months old.

Edited July 17, 2012 by wutitdo

[noobfun 87]

You see rather than just respond to what i say you make assumptions about what Im REALLY saying and equate it to some sort of moral issue and what would happen in the real world.

nope i responded to what you said

follow them see if they are bad then shoot them if they are, its already ingame ... you follow them see if they are bad guys then shoot them

beat torture and slice and dice some guy (bearing in mind bandits will have the same ability so it will get done to you as well more then likley) but its not going to be effective at distinguishing bandits from none bandits at ranges where your less likley to be shot so pointless,

originally you were asking specifically for a way to recognise a bandit at distance, you see the differance here. weve moved from ability to tell at range to ability to tell when your close enough to be dead 108908x over

I never brought morality into it. You just think that your baiting me into going yeah I want revenge so you can scream hypocrite.

not really but thats what your suggestions appear to be, you orignially ask for one thing then when questioned about how it should operate in game you suggest somthing that wont work for the original request and seems to be little more then an inbuilt T-bagging ability

That just you being programmed like a $10 alarm clock by previous posts.

drawing conclusions from your suggestions is not drawing from previous posts by others, sorry

If you are capable taking my words for nothing more than my words and having a logical sane discussion about im happy to.

well thats what im trying to do, but you ask for one thing when questioned how you suggest somthing that wont give what you asked for originally, thats incongruent so theres somthing else there thats not bieng said, im just trying to work out what

But if you are going to be all loopy and weird and project all your shit onto it then theres no point in us talking

you'll be missed <3

[spiney 10]

All you need to know is.

YOU WILL LOSE YOU'RE SHIT FROM SERVER WIPES/ROLLBACKS/RESTARTS/WTFEVAR

YOU WILL BREAK UR BONES IF YOU CLOSE DOORS TO CLOSE TO YOU

ALT + F4 IS MASSIVELY ABUSED

DISCONNECTING RUNNING BEHIND SOMEONE BECAUSE UR A NATURAL BORN PUSSY OR BECAUSE PEOPLE DO IT TO YOU AND YOU JUST DONT GIVE A F^&$ ANYMORE

RELOAD GLITCHING UR PISTOL AMMO AT 1 BULLET BACK TO SIX OR ANY OTHER CLIP THATS NOT HALFWAY DONE

NOOBS CRYING ABOUT CAMPERS IT'S A GOD DAMN DEATHMATCH GAME YOU WANNA BE A PUSSY LIKE THEM? SERVER HOP NW AIRFIELD CAMP ON STARRY SOBOR HILL CAMP BALOTA OR HIDE OUT IN CHERNO THIS IS WHERE THEY HANG OUT AVOID THESE PLACES NO MORE PROBLEMS.

CRYING ABOUT YOU'RE SUPER SECRET CAMP GETTING RAIDED HEY RETARDS THE SERVER'S ARE ON 24/7 MOST OF THE TIME PEOPLE PLAY AT DIFFERENT TIMES PEOPLE RUN ACCROSS SHIT AND FIND SHIT PEOPLE SERVER JUMP JUST TO RAID CAMPS YOU'RE CAMP WILL BE RAIDED NO MATTER WHO GOOD YOU ARE HIDING.

MASSIVE RETARDS HACKING THE SHIT OUT OF DAYZ AND FLYING HELOS AND CRASHING AND WALKING OUT WITHOUT A SCRATCH AND TELEPORTING OTHER PLAYERS TO DIFFERENT ZONES ON THE MAP OR KILLING THEM OR DEBUG FORREST KILLING THEM AND THEY CANT STOP IT?

i dont care though really guys.... the mod is like 2 months old.

Hence why I'm leaving the game alone till at least BETA or something along that lines.

Insofar, I'm just keeping up to date with the updates.

[skyter 299]

Attacking someone else's opinion doesn't exactly put more weight into yours. There's nothing wrong with being a bandit in this game necessarily, but it is a GAME and that aspect is not balanced currently towards multiple avenues of play.. something that is pivotal in a "sandbox" style game. I personally don't see an issue with making changes. Being a bandit offers vast rewards, but for balance - there should also be vast drawbacks for such an aggressive playstyle. Currently - there isn't any. The same should be said for being "the good guy". It also needs to have it's drawbacks, but currently - there's almost no reason to be that type of player because there's ONLY drawbacks.

Look at EVE Online, for example.. being a Pirate offers a ton for rewarding the player... but it also identifies you as a major target to everyone else that ISN'T a pirate.. thus they might work together to kill you. They might also not get good loot as fast as you, either. It's a double-edged sword, yet it's still balanced. That's what this alpha stage of the game is for.. figuring things out.

here here!

*offers flame retardant suit*

[Spirit (DayZ) 3]

I suppose one of the "bug" part is realistic, a door swinging towards you? I mean that's seriously dangerous, it could hit your head and you get put in a coma or even kill you!

Being serious, this mod has increased Arma 2s player count of course, but the player count won't stay with this.. Sooner or later people will get tired of having to shoot on sight, or being shot on sight.

Spending hours of time getting gear, and then just having some guy with a Lee just shoot you because you approach him with the reason of befriending him. I suppose you can't blame him he didn't want to die, but think before you shoot specially when they aren't shooting back.

I preferred the other banditry system, where you would have humanity, and after you go negative you would get a bandit skin. Not really realistic, but it adds way more fairness to the game, by the time you go up to someone to listen to their heart beat they already hear your footsteps, and then you're dead.

Valid points you bring up, Skyter.

[RoRogely 5]

Attacking someone else's opinion doesn't exactly put more weight into yours. There's nothing wrong with being a bandit in this game necessarily, but it is a GAME and that aspect is not balanced currently towards multiple avenues of play.. something that is pivotal in a "sandbox" style game. I personally don't see an issue with making changes. Being a bandit offers vast rewards, but for balance - there should also be vast drawbacks for such an aggressive playstyle. Currently - there isn't any. The same should be said for being "the good guy". It also needs to have it's drawbacks, but currently - there's almost no reason to be that type of player because there's ONLY drawbacks.

Look at EVE Online, for example.. being a Pirate offers a ton for rewarding the player... but it also identifies you as a major target to everyone else that ISN'T a pirate.. thus they might work together to kill you. They might also not get good loot as fast as you, either. It's a double-edged sword, yet it's still balanced. That's what this alpha stage of the game is for.. figuring things out.

The community makes the game. There is nothing stopping you from rounding up a posse and hunting down the bandits.

[moisan4 26]

But the fact there is no grouping system, coupled with rampant player killing makes things really chaotic really fast. I am part of a group like I've said. That doesn't stop instances of friendly fire if we're not in a chat due to the nature of the game. I've been killed by my own friendlies because they won't take time to determine whether the person in front of them is hostile when in our own territory.

Nothing better than getting an M1911 round in the back of the head followed by 6 steam chat sounds of your buddy saying "OMG I HAD NO IDEA THAT WAS YOU! SO SORRY! I'll WATCH YOUR STUFF!"

"PvP with PvE element thrown in" : ass backwards, it's player vs. environment with PvP mixed in.

This was brought up in the forum: http://dayzmod.com/f...-among-players/

I agree. With the game as it currently is, is KoS rampant. There are many factors that have created this culture. One aspect I touched on below:

Yes paranoia in a zombie apocalypse is healthy mental state, but there are real world applications to wearing distinctive clothing. Why do you think street and biker gangs wear distinctive colors and insignias? Why do you think every military in the world has distinctive camouflage patterns used for different terrains that are distinctive from other militaries? The answer, friendly fire.

There are two situations that make this a worldwide practice used by every military and non-military organization in the world that engages in armed combat. First, to be distinguished on sight as friend or foe, hesitation gets you killed. The second reason is less apparent unless you’ve actually been in the shit. When shit goes down, it’s insane and chaotic, without visual distinction you’re just as likely to shoot friend as you are foe.

This is authentic to the real world, and arguing that everyone should always look the same wouldn’t even be practical in a zombie apocalypse. If you’re with a small or large band, clan, gang, etcetera, you want to be able to distinguish each other from other people for the two reasons listed above. And considering this is a game where facial recognition isn’t possible, I believe that some other form of distinction is not only authentic, but a requirement.

Edited July 17, 2012 by moisan4

[jetao2008@hotmail.com 175]

New proposition: you kill a player without any murders, your player character model changes to a giant pink dildo with arms and legs. After all it's just a reflection of your karma.

Humanity is broken. If you're close enough to have your heart beat, you're already dead, it's just stupid. Really stupid.

This Game is a death match with zombies at best.

Players are just griefing twats who would rather shoot one person for their stuff than loot to survive, and the game encourages it with no down side at this point.

In the last 24 hours i've been:

Killed 2 times by falling into the ground, causing broken bones and massive bleeds

Killed 1 time by vaulting , getting stuck in the object and the game having a seizure.

Killed 1 time by a door opening inward on me.

Killed 1 time by spawning on top of another player.

Spawned 5 times at full health, in shock and unconscious for a 3 minute wait with a blurred screen.

I've had my tents reset 7 times in the last 3 days, losing rare items up the ying-yang, including but not limited to: FALs, M14s, M4 CCO's, M24s, M9 SDs, MP5SDs, Kobras, m16 w/ 203s and ghillie suits.

What reasoning do I have to continue to play when i'm shot on sight in addition to all the bugs?!

So even with the huge amount, it's not even the game that's the most frustrating with all the bugs, It's the people. With their sheep mentality of shooting on site with no regard for other players, because other players do it. I wouldn't mind spending the time to reacquire gear if I knew it wasn't going to be striped by a bush wookie with an enfield for no reason. Some of you think it's funny, some of you will give the obligatory "QQ moar" or "TL;DR". Some of you think it's a 'realistic' mentality to kill humans on sight when the human race is supposedly on the brink of death,

To that I say: You're exactly what's wrong with the game. You're forcing an entire community to play one specific style in a sandbox game or suffer because they don't.

It's just sad and It's getting worse. People. People ruin everything. Not a chance in hell I would be dumb enough to pay for a game in the future to get griefed non-stop . I shouldn't be forced to kill other players on site because they're forced to kill me with the same mentality, especially when it's completely unnecessary.

:beans: :thumbsup:

If you agree and would like to group up, message me, as I have a friendly group that's more than willing to outfit you with the best gear. (numbers usually dissuade the lone bandits and griefers)

I agree with every word you said, but honestly i can't say if the developers will do something regarding this matter in the future, since it seems a lot of people has adopted this play-style recently.

I'm not saying that people should get PUNISHED for killing other players, but SOMETHING should be done do even things out a little bit.

By killing everyone i see i am rewarded with good and easy to get loot. What do i get by try to playing as a survivor? Nothing, except for a bullet in the back.

We don't need punishments, we need to reward the other play styles as well (i know the griefers will consider this as a punishment, but their fun shouldn't come at the expense of our fun, at least not always).

This is one of the factors that will determine if i'm buying the game or not when it's fully released in the future. Even though i love this game, THIS is exactly what separates DayZ from the other regular first person shooters that i played before.