Punishing bandits? Shut up, seriously.

[Nekriist 3]

Fuck up with my web browser. My bad. Looked as if i'd been culled. I firmly apologize to the admins. My screw up. Sorry guys.

Edited July 21, 2012 by Nekriist

[Inception. 9443]

I am heartened to see the few large groups that have taken initiative to have their fun in a more productive way, i.e. offering medical services or even mercenary assaults. That is so much more creative that hiding behind a bush and waiting to snipe someone as they try to do some thing silly like upgrade their gear at a military tent. Shame on them. I mean really, boys, who died and decided all the gear in the game is yours to control. When you are older and have some maturity under you belt you may understand. And, if you are older and still don't get it well someday you may even mature.

Was this directed at me? If it was, I'll have you know that I have scavenged all of the gear required to survive. I have all of the high-end gear from finding it where it spawns. I just kill people if they are a threat, that's all.

[Kop3th 2]

First off I love the game, but I also know that it has a ways to go before it is a polished product.

Bandits shouldn't be punished, but as it stands survivors are at a disadvantage due to the amounts of decision making they have to make where as bandits don't have to think at all. Maybe rewarding people for helping others would be a better way to go. Help create less of a shoot on site mentality. At least for those who don't want to shoot on site but are too paranoid to take the chance. I don't know just throwing things out there. At least make others think before they shoot. No matter what has happened, or will happen in the future there will always be order among the chaos. Had we not found a way to work together and create a civilized or at least a certain level of civil order we would still be climbing trees and banging rocks together since we would not be able to trust one another enough to make a community. There is survival instincts but then there is also the instinct to survive through working together, rebuilding and creating order. That part of the game is missing at the moment.

The wild west was crazy but there was still a level of order. Killers were known in the world and if someone saw a known bandit they would avoid them or face the consequence. Right now no one is known and there isn't a way to know who the famous gunslingers are. The game isn't perfect and to create the truly immersive world that Rocket said he was going for there has to be another element to the game that allows player interaction in what should feel more like an actual living breathing world.

Also I am not the type of guy that is looking for a clan, I am sure I am not alone in this. I wanted to start alone on a beach and let the world play out before me. Meeting people who would maybe stick with me a short while before we went our separate ways or maybe meeting a group that would stick together till death. That is what this game could be and I am sure that is the goal of the game.

Like I said the game is great but I think it has a little ways to go in polishing some of the game play. I have faith it will be a truly unique experience when the full version is released.

[Albatros (DayZ) 40]

I don't see any problems with bandits.

Just crybear survivors who think this is some co-op MMO where you're supposed to work together and complain when people don't.

[septuscap 42]

The inherent problem is murdering others on sight has no potential immediate, nor potential longterm, downside.

No the problem is that friendlies want to be able to be WORSE at the game and still not end up dead. If you don't want to KOS, that's fine. Keep your distance, stalk people you see and avoid them, keep cover. Even if you initiate conversation, KEEP COVER.

You don't have the right to just run around like an idiot and have the game cover you by punishing bandits. Make a steam group for friendlies, trade with each other, socialize with each other; eventually use base building to create player safe cities. But be vigilant.

[dallas 5195]

Without bandit skins, everyone's a bandit.

[septuscap 42]

"Well what happens when a survivor defends himself & he too becomes a bandit??" Simple, if a survivor kills a bandit, it doesn't count as a murder. If a bandit or survivor kills a survivor however, its murder.

The issue is if a SURVIVOR opens up on you, you defend yourself and kill him, and thus become a bandit. I think the solution is to use a simple murder count instead of humanity, a la Ultima Online. If you have 5+ kills, you're a bandit. Every X hours of gameplay, you lose a kill count until you're back under 5 and become a survivor again. This would have to carry over into new lives or else a player could just respawn and have his friends gear him up again.

[gizm0 96]

No the problem is that friendlies want to be able to be WORSE at the game and still not end up dead. If you don't want to KOS, that's fine. Keep your distance, stalk people you see and avoid them, keep cover. Even if you initiate conversation, KEEP COVER.

You don't have the right to just run around like an idiot and have the game cover you by punishing bandits. Make a steam group for friendlies, trade with each other, socialize with each other; eventually use base building to create player safe cities. But be vigilant.

why do people keep saying use 3rd party?! It seems kinda odd that noone is giving ways to group up with friendly players in-game without the help of 3rd party apps

[slyder73 94]

... it is highly irritating too be killed 2 mins into the game without any way too defend yourself by some cocks tho.. maybe only punish in starting areas or something similar if somebody has a shiny weapon fair enough but too get killed for starting bandage and pain killers is just stupid..

After the first few lives....I never get killed right away any more when spawning.

Learn to adapt and change your style at start. Keep cover, get AWAY from main town, raid small areas for a hatchet and go from there.

If you are spawning and getting killed in 2 mins.....it is ENTIRELY your own fault, period.

As for murder counts or punishments....completely silly and against the spirit of what DayZ is supposed to be according to it's creator (Rocket), so keep those mechanics out.

Edited July 21, 2012 by Slyder73

[chrismgtis 55]

... it is highly irritating too be killed 2 mins into the game without any way too defend yourself by some cocks tho.. maybe only punish in starting areas or something similar if somebody has a shiny weapon fair enough but too get killed for starting bandage and pain killers is just stupid..

You guys are way, way over exaggerating. You don't get killed by bandits that often. Man up.

[gizm0 96]

After the first few lives....I never get killed right away any more when spawning.

Learn to adapt and change your style at start. Keep cover, get AWAY from main town, raid small areas for a hatchet and go from there.

If you are spawning and getting killed in 2 mins.....it is ENTIRELY your own fault, period.

As for murder counts or punishments....completely silly and against the spirit of what DayZ is supposed to be according to it's creator (Rocket), so keep those mechanics out.

we already have murder counts in terms of the debug info and I don't see anything wrong with removing murder count and bandit kill count from it, I mean both those stats are worthless to dayz.

[JustZombieJames 0]

There isn't a problem with banditry in the game. You're going to encounter it. And you should. That's how it works. There will always been an element that preys on the "weak" for their own survival. I think what you aren't doing, is distinguishing between PKers (Griefers) and bandits. Bandits are one thing. Griefers are another. And it is not the fault of bandits. It's the fault of the dev(s) taking a lazy approach to developing the mod by stating they won't trying and "balance" things (Either because they aren't creative enough to figure something out, or they're honestly too lazy. If they had an ounce of real sense, and if they wanted to ultimately make this into a standalone game with a shot at any success, they would do something. Instead, all that seems to be given is condescension and half assed explanations for not doing anything. Take that as you will fanboys.).

Bandits aren't the problem. They're there for adding another facet to the experience. The problem is CoD and BF nut sacks that spend their time killing (Without even bothering to looting) and camping spawn spots. I've seen videos of earlier builds of this alpha, where legitimate bandits made their living. I was amazed,and incredibly impressed by roadside robberies (That didn't end up in the victim being executed), and other such similar things. That is how the game is meant to be played. But lazy developers and braindead "yes-man" fans make any sort of changes impossible. Thus, you will only get the experience you get now: A watered-down semi-realistic zombie survival mod that fails to capture much of an experience, because it caters to people who abuse the bandit name, and the lack of skins to simply grief, instead of trying to play the game as a survival. A bandit is not a griefer, but a griefer is a bandit. You can see how it goes downhill from there.

Perhaps you are right. People killing others for sport, PKing for no good reason. That is childish. I was just playing and saw a guy looting a chopper. He did a good job moving up to it clearing zombies with his AK. I had just recently found a rifle so I watched the whole thing through my scope. I found myself watching the zombies around him more than just keeping a bead on him, thinking to myself I would lay them flat if they charged him. But, that is me. Don't get me wrong I would lay someone out if I had the chance and they were trying to gank my beans but, I had no reason to shoot that guy. Beside he had style too. He ran back up the field hopped on his bicycle and rode away.

Edited July 21, 2012 by JustZombieJames

[slyder73 94]

Perhaps you are right. People killing others for sport, PKing for no good reason. That is childish. I was just playing and saw a guy looting a chopper. He did a good job moving up to it clearing zombies with his AK. I had just recently found a rifle so I watched the whole thing through my scope. I found myself watching the zombies around him more than just keeping a bead on him, thinking to myself I would lay them flat if they charged him. But, that is me. Don't get me wrong I would lay someone out if I had the chance and they were trying to gank my beans but, I had no reason to shoot that guy. Beside he had style too. He ran back up the field hopped on his bicycle and rode away.

LOL, which is exactly why we stop at every field or opening in the trees, spread our group out and do a full recon of the hillsides, treelines, any buildings etc. Because SOMEWHERE there could be someone watching. Most would shoot. So, we clear our path by killing the observers.

This also guarantees that no other group is going to get info relayed to them that a mid-size, well equipped group is moving in a certain direction. We don't want people knowing where we are moving...it prevents uncessesary gun battles where one of us might die. Recon, clear and move on. If you're not in our group and you see us, we more than likely kill you. If the observer we spot beats a hasty retreat and moves away, we immediately bug out in a different direction and then switch back, again, trying to throw off any info going out about our movements. Same if we have to kill a zombie in a town by accident. Any of us fires a gun, bug out time because any gunshot in town is basically ringing the dinner bell for other players to come investigate.

I agree the stats for murders should be taken out. There are so many reasons why players kill other players, all of them are legit to the player who does the killing. Nobody can judge. Punishing the killing of players? No thanks, that would pretty much end what makes DayZ great.

And for those who get killed on sight, you can't assume it is just "some PK kid" killing you. It might be you were in the wrong place when a well established group was coming through and your being alive in our area is a liability. :D

Edited July 21, 2012 by Slyder73

[septuscap 42]

I am heartened to see the few large groups that have taken initiative to have their fun in a more productive way, i.e. offering medical services or even mercenary assaults. That is so much more creative that hiding behind a bush and waiting to snipe someone as they try to do some thing silly like upgrade their gear at a military tent. Shame on them. I mean really, boys, who died and decided all the gear in the game is yours to control. When you are older and have some maturity under you belt you may understand. And, if you are older and still don't get it well someday you may even mature.

One of the primary elements of the game is competition over vehicles, and resources/territory in general. Maybe when you're older and suck less, you may understand. Not everyone in a sandbox is after socializing. I'm sure base building and the like will give a better venue for those playstyles, but it would be a mistake to sandbag the most popular feature of the game (sandbox PvP). 700k users and rising.

Bandits aren't the problem. They're there for adding another facet to the experience. The problem is CoD and BF nut sacks that spend their time killing (Without even bothering to looting) and camping spawn spots. I've seen videos of earlier builds of this alpha, where legitimate bandits made their living. I was amazed,and incredibly impressed by roadside robberies (That didn't end up in the victim being executed), and other such similar things. That is how the game is meant to be played.

If not for the "nut sacks," there would be zero real threat in DayZ. If you're dying to zombies, you're a moron, plain and simple (or bored and trying your luck). The reason players use caution, check their surroundings, and feel FEAR, is because PLAYERS are out to get them. Zombies, like food/ammo/drink/etc, are a vehicle to ratchet up that fear. You need food, but that means going to high traffic areas. You need to dispatch that zed, but it means some one might hear you. You're afraid of THE PLAYERS. The 1 or 2 videos of roadside robbery are anecdotal -- that time never existed in DayZ, and you're just as likely to encounter it now as you were then.

Frankly I wouldn't care if you re-added bandit skins, but you'd just have players continuing their stupid behavior of running out in the open to greet an armed stranger (likely a would-be bandit that hasn't gotten his "stripes" yet) just like they do now. Why don't we put THAT kind of behavior on trial?

[Inception. 9443]

One of the primary elements of the game is competition over vehicles, and resources/territory in general. Maybe when you're older and suck less, you may understand. Not everyone in a sandbox is after socializing. I'm sure base building and the like will give a better venue for those playstyles, but it would be a mistake to sandbag the most popular feature of the game (sandbox PvP). 700k users and rising.

If not for the "nut sacks," there would be zero real threat in DayZ. If you're dying to zombies, you're a moron, plain and simple (or bored and trying your luck). The reason players use caution, check their surroundings, and feel FEAR, is because PLAYERS are out to get them. Zombies, like food/ammo/drink/etc, are a vehicle to ratchet up that fear. You need food, but that means going to high traffic areas. You need to dispatch that zed, but it means some one might hear you. You're afraid of THE PLAYERS. The 1 or 2 videos of roadside robbery are anecdotal -- that time never existed in DayZ, and you're just as likely to encounter it now as you were then.

Frankly I wouldn't care if you re-added bandit skins, but you'd just have players continuing their stupid behavior of running out in the open to greet an armed stranger (likely a would-be bandit that hasn't gotten his "stripes" yet) just like they do now. Why don't we put THAT kind of behavior on trial?

Perfect comment.