Kicking of Players for Clan members

[sharkdog 2]

How is this an issue at all? I mean really did this need its own announcement thread?

I think it's only fair that people who are hosting servers have the ability to kick a player so they can get in. Obviously not abuse your power but the people who pay to keep the server running should be able to play on their own server whenever they want.

[boneboys 7988]

Thanks Gabriel.

You can kick me if needed.

[SteamTrout 18]

Sorry but it's kinda strange that the policy "Pay for the servers but don't play on them". I mean if my server is full and I want to play what do you expect me to do? Find another one?

Please note that I am not a server owner and after reading this thread will most likely never be. It's just a very strange policy to enforce. I mean I'm all for server admins following each and every rule enforced upon everybody else. However if I pay money for the server I expect to be able to play on it.

[drakenof 9]

I think the thread was aiming at " Clan Members ", meaning 10-20 reserved slot on a server, but not on " Admins slots ".

[SteamTrout 18]

I think the thread was aiming at " Clan Members "' date=' meaning 10-20 reserved slot on a server, but not on " Admins slots ".

[/quote']

Well, I do agree that during alpha having half of the server reserved is not really feasible. However not allowing any kicks for owners is just stretching it too thin.

[rocket 16567]

I have not kicked players for:

- Employees/Management of big studios

- BIS Employees and Executives

- Game Journalists

- Myself, and developers

The issue is simple:

We have had a number of server hosters kicking people because they didn't like the way they played, or because they killed people the server hoster knew, or because the server hosters wanted the server to themselves.

"How does this make not allowing people to kick players a bad thing. If a server admin has to kick someone to let his clanmate in, then the server is already at capacity, and will stay that way."

For starters, every new connection places great strain on the system (all you respawn spam bitches, fu!). Secondly, this allows server admins to "game the system". They can kick people and say it was "to let someone in".

To be honest, our greatest problems and our greatest source of hacking issues... is not from the players it is from server administrators. We have corrupted data, causing the mass "cannot connect" and us having to reset everyones position data because of the actions of rogue server hosters.

Look, I'm sorry it has to be this way - but I am a realist. We have to take a hard line with server owners because it is potentially compromising the whole project. I didn't make this to support peoples private gaming experiences on private servers. Maybe a project in future will support that - but NOT this experiment. I am continuing this experiment and I will not deviate from this no matter how much money anyone offers, no matter what any gaming magazine writes.

And, to be honest, I don't give a damn how many abusive emails I get from the one or two clans that have an amazing sense of entitlement. Instead I focus on the 95% of hosters who demonstrate amazing generosity. Who can't even get on their own servers, because of demand. So instead they rent more servers. People like Host Altitude who WORK with us instead of AGAINST us. We're not perfect but we are trying damn hard to make this all work. We have to make the tough calls, and we have very little time to make them. A single server gone rogue could fuck everything up.

I gift my time and the thousands of dollars of my money for these people, not the whiny people who complain about everything and act like I owe them something. I am genuinely sorry that it has to be this way, a group of very smart people have sat around and discussed this at great length, including with all our initial hosters. We all agreed it has to be this way. Do not pass judgement on our decisions until you know the full story, the facts, the architecture that needs to be supported, the risks. Most of these things I can't list here or they will fall into the wrong hands.

I do this for the people who approach this in the way it is offered, for everyone, as an experiment. I did NOT make this for my own clan, in fact in making this I DESTROYED my clan. I forbid them to wear their clan tags. I made this for EVERYONE and if you want to participate and donate, you follow my example and donate to EVERYONE.

If you cannot except this, please leave. Because I will not waiver on this.

[c.chris.perry@gmail.com 17]

Well, I'll lay off. I really looked past how much effort you, rocket, put into this... I don't know how I forgot how to be grateful.

I guess my only request now, is if my clan's request to get the server set up can get finished, because as of right now we are paying money for a server we can't use :/ We tried to do the whole apply beforehand, and were told to get back to them when we actually had the server. Now we have the server and we are getting ignored. We WANT to help the community (I guess I'll just be spamming enter), but can't.

[daedrick 90]

Im glad Rocket and Mods took the matter in hands and actually made a statement about this. Admins and players alike need to learn some manners and respect the game developers by being loyal and accommodating.

Most if not all of this MOD is anti-game and people need to learn how to act and respect the rules of this game. There is a huge acclimatization ahead. The whole gaming community need to mature in my opinion.

I know it doesn't mean much but I thanks honest admins and moderators that are actually adult in their management tasks.

Quick edit: As a side note, I only play on Altitude server, so Im glad he is considered a great contributor, because I find his server to be the best even if they have some stability problems. Keep it on Altitude! <3

[rocket 16567]

I'm not saying what we have now is acceptable. Not at all. We're working to come up with something, but its very difficult when the base game doesn't support it. My recommendation would be that if those donating don't like it (and I accept they might not), then run another ArmA game mode type until we resolve the issue.

Please people, just be patient. Try to realize what is happening here, and also the amazing opportunity that has been presented. YOU guys did this, not me. I'm just lucky enough to be a the right place, and the right time, with the right thing. You are sending a message to the gaming companies, in their WALLETS. Don't fuck this up with internal politics.

[colonel_black 0]

Well' date=' I'll lay off. I really looked past how much effort you, rocket, put into this... I don't know how I forgot how to be grateful.

I guess my only request now, is if my clan's request to get the server set up can get finished, because as of right now we are paying money for a server we can't use :/ We tried to do the whole apply beforehand, and were told to get back to them when we actually had the server. Now we have the server and we are getting ignored. We WANT to help the community (I guess I'll just be spamming enter), but can't.

[/quote']

This is my worrie about setting up the server I intend to. I'd probably be with Host Altitude, but and they'd be able to support me with getting the server up ASAP, but I don't want to be wasting time with the server sat doing nothing until we get the go-ahead.

[howichrgelazer 69]

I don't understand why some server admins have a problem with this line of thought. Honestly if a person is patient enough, chances are somebody will end up leaving a full server in <= 15 minutes. I usually take that time to look at a map and plan out my looting route for the day.

Even if it's pegged full and for some reason you can't get in, the admin should be proud of it. It means you're running a reliable server and heck, you get to have your "hosted by" line shown off to the community in the server list.

[Malaclypse 3]

+1 OP would read again.

[IHOKIEPOKIE 3]

For starters, every new connection places great strain on the system (all you respawn spam bitches, fu!). Secondly, this allows server admins to "game the system". They can kick people and say it was "to let someone in".

Just out of curosity, would adding a five or ten minute respawn block help with the server strain or no? Or is that even possible?

[FreedomTea 9]

Even if it's pegged full and for some reason you can't get in, the admin should be proud of it. It means you're running a reliable server and heck, you get to have your "hosted by" line shown off to the community in the server list.

"For some reason you can't get in"

You must be new here

[howichrgelazer 69]

Heh. :P

Just speaking from experience on connecting when the server we host is full so far. Character loading is a whole different beast though, which has settled down a lot in the last 24 hours compared to a few days ago (props to the dev team for keeping on their toes). I haven't had to wait for more than 15 minutes for it to go 49/50. People usually come and go from servers quite frequently. All you need is one slot to free up.

[SteamTrout 18]

I do understand rocket's reasoning (some of it at least) behind the rules. In my opinion rogue admins should be stripped of privileges instantly (this is ALPHA, not full release, you host what basically is a test server). I am greatly appreciative of his effort and I do understand that since this is more or less a hobby project dealing with drama never was on the table.

It's just as a person who is willing to provide a server for fellow survivors and bandits to play on (I haven't seen any Ukrainian servers online so it may even be the 1st one in this country) I do disagree with "You can't be guaranteed a spot on your own server" policy. I do understand the reasoning, I think it was explained in detail by rocket. So I am willing to wait until the server and load issues be sorted hoping that rules will be changed by then.

Keep up the amazing work Rocket. Your mod is something never seen before in the world of gaming.

[TheHappyPeanut 10]

Please note: this post is meant for the 5% of server owners who are being dicks' date=' not the 95% who are awesome.[/u']

Kicking of Players for Clan members:

This has been requested. While we do want to have some "reserved slots" this effectively requires either a lot of scripting or changes to the base game code.

It is something that is being worked on but it is not finished

Originally we trialed allowing servers to kick out players who had either donated money or were clan members of the owner, to allow space for someone else. Abuse of this became RAMPANT.

Server owners need to start wising up. We are only processing about 20 to 30% of server requests for hosting due to the massive volume of offers. The clan servers need to realize they cannot just do whatever they feel like because their actions affect the rest of the game and the servers.

Think about it, if we let server owners do this, what is stopping them from kicking someone who just killed them? What is to stop them kicking people for arbitrary reasons? Who polices this? The policy is in place because it makes sense.

We've been pretty lenient so far, but it is causing us a lot of work to deal with these people being difficult and it has delayed development. Please try and think how hard our job is to balance everything, and realize that if your clan/group is asking for exceptions then there are hundreds of other people probably asking too. Also realize that we have been burned several times, resulting in the need for costly and time consuming backups to be restored.

The current rules weren't picked out of nowhere, we know they aren't perfect. We're just trying to make the best of the situation and keep things going.

As much of a pain it is to not be able to play in my own server at times, I can understand the reasoning behind this. Let's say you're playing with your friend and you are currently being attacked by zombies; you have the ability to kill the zombies together, but what happens when an admin wants to make room for a member and kicks you? Well, your friend is overrun and killed by zombies. How would you feel? I know exactly what you would do: you would complain about it on the forums. Because no one cares about the consequences as long as it's not happening to them.

It's simple. Don't be a dick. I understand the frustration server owners experience, but you're going to have to suck it up until reserved slots arrive -- which is a feature that the game REALLY needs.

[iogc_broadsword 33]

A lot of you guys need to wind your necks in. What Rocket is trying to do here is amazing, and if you keep fighting like this you will only endanger the project, stop being so fucking selfish, if you don't like the way things are developing then go back to BLOPS or whatever other game you play and behave like spoiled little brats.

As he has said he didn't create this for clans to take over a server, servers were supposed to be donated to the project for testing etc, if you rent a server and agree to the terms they have set out you can't cry about getting a slap on the arse for not following the rules YOU AGREED TO.

There is no reserved slot system in arma, it's not an option in the server config file, you can control the server remotely, monitor chat, watch connections, desync and you can kick using the battleye commands just like PB. There is no need for a server admin to say he NEEDS to be on server, you can see people joining with incorrect BiKeys and deal with them remotely.

If you are a server renter then you are supposed to be doing this for the community, not so you can whore your own server with your members and spoil the fun for those that are not members and behaving like complete smaktards because things don't go your way.

Get with the program guys, this is a fantastic project built for a community, don't let a small group spoil it for us all.

[Zaltro 3]

A lot of you guys need to wind your necks in. What Rocket is trying to do here is amazing' date=' and if you keep fighting like this you will only endanger the project, stop being so fucking selfish, if you don't like the way things are developing then go back to BLOPS or whatever other game you play and behave like spoiled little brats.

As he has said he didn't create this for clans to take over a server, servers were supposed to be donated to the project for testing etc, if you rent a server and agree to the terms they have set out you can't cry about getting a slap on the arse for not following the rules YOU AGREED TO.

There is no reserved slot system in arma, it's not an option in the server config file, you can control the server remotely, monitor chat, watch connections, desync and you can kick using the battleye commands just like PB. There is no need for a server admin to say he NEEDS to be on server, you can see people joining with incorrect BiKeys and deal with them remotely.

If you are a server renter then you are supposed to be doing this for the community, not so you can whore your own server with your members and spoil the fun for those that are not members and behaving like complete smaktards because things don't go your way.

Get with the program guys, this is a fantastic project built for a community, don't let a small group spoil it for us all.

[/quote']

Exactly this, mainly the reason why I don't join servers like the Legion ones or EU7.

[bobbyweenus 17]

And rocket basically admitted they can handpick who gets a "license" because the supply of server offers exceeds the demand. And forbidding slot reservation (by kicking) or locking is basically abusing their current position of power.

Do not get me wrong' date=' the mod is absolutely awesome, but the way server owners are treated just because the mod can currently afford it is just retarded.

If I want to host a server for which I pay myself for others to play I do not like someone to tell me how I have to run it. There are slight exceptions, like preventing cheating.

[/quote']

A few things, first of all, I can't think of a single Alpha test I've ever played in where I had any semblance of server control. Servers were usually provided or playtimes were limited and provided, this is the most open ended Alpha I've ever seen in, in fifteen years of PC gaming, and that's an asset to us as players, not a curse.

Secondly, think to yourself for a second. You're playing DayZ. You and some friends are working your way into an insane encampment full of zombies, maybe you've gunned your way in with a large raiding party. Now, you've been kicked by the server, despite having been working at this raid for an hour or two, some server admin's pal wants to get on, and you were the unlikely fool who was kicked in his place.

Now you're re-logging in to extremely hostile territory. Likely going to die. Even if you and your friends logout and are rejoining a new server at the same time so you at least log in to a hostile area with your group, but there is no way to ensure you all actually load in at the same time. With the "waiting for server response" stuff taking longer and longer and randomly working for certain people, you could be a single file line for bandit tough-guys or a horde of zombies. All because a server admin's friend wanted to get on. It sucks, and there is no way you can tell me that I'm wrong at all. This game doesn't lend the safety space that you would need to be frivolously kicking people from servers.

I have a proposed work around for this though. I skimmed the thread so I apologize if I'm just echoing someone else's idea, but, have locked slots.

So if a server is 50 slot capacity, have the server open with 45 public slots. Have reserved locked slots that clanmembers or admins can log into without having to kick someone to make space. Reserve the space. I'm sure this would take some coding but it's the most reasonable answer to this problem that exists.

[Sakke1994 0]

Ok, they pay for the server or host it themselves, but that doesn't mean they should kick people who were spamming enter to get a free spot. Keep it fair, just wait for a free spot like all the other people do.

[Sgt.Spam 42]

I'm don't agree with the current system in place, but I understand and respect the reasons for your decision.

I'll reconsider hosting a server out of pocket again in the future when you can guarantee I'll be able to play on it.

Thanks again for creating this free to play mod and don't let the negative comments get to ya!

[sheriff_mclawdog 0]

To be clear, it is in not a privilege to be able to host a server. It is a heavy burden(based on DaYZ requirements) to bear for any server admin. I don't think enough respect is being shown here to server owners/renters in general for what they do.

Like rocket posted, I likewise do not believe that admins should be kicking people left and right, and do feel that reserved slots will be great and hope they come into play eventually.

People still have to remember that hosting a server costs a lot of money(this mod/game particularly), and 95% of the people hosting these servers are good, very generous admins who don't screw around or act caddy. The cost is high but they pay it gladly(I would assume), so that you and I can have the opportunity to play the game AT ALL.

I do believe that rules have to be in place to stop admin based griefing and thus make the game more enjoyable for all. But please do have some respect for the good admins here and the generosity they show. Keep in mind that it costs $100+ dollars a month to rent a decent dedicated/VPS server w/win license that can run ONE instance of this mod, and that all the non-admins are the ones that are privileged to be able to play this great mod on someone else's dime.

[rocket 16567]

I respect admins who host servers.

But there is no room in this project for people who donate a server to a private audience. That's like donating to the red cross and asking that they only deliver food to white children, or russians, or whatever. Ping blocking is fine because it cant be abused. Kicking and locking is abused on a daily basis. I'm not retarded, I can see it.

This project is for EVERYONE. It is not that I am not showing you respect, it is that I do not want your donation of the server. It does not fit within the parameters of the project. We have been very very clear about this. If you said yes then pulled the fast one on us, and lock/password, I will take a giant shit on your server.

That's not lack of respect, that's me doing what I have always said we would do, and keeping true to the spirit of the project and not changing my mind because internet got all excited about it for a day.

P.S. send tears.

[sheriff_mclawdog 0]

The post was not directed at you in any way. I know already that you properly respect server admins :). It was more directed at other users of the mod like myself.

EDIT: To clarify, I understand why the current rules exist and I DO agree with them 100%.