Kicking of Players for Clan members

[rocket 16567]

Please note: this post is meant for the 5% of server owners who are being dicks, not the 95% who are awesome.

Kicking of Players for Clan members:

This has been requested. While we do want to have some "reserved slots" this effectively requires either a lot of scripting or changes to the base game code.

It is something that is being worked on but it is not finished

Originally we trialed allowing servers to kick out players who had either donated money or were clan members of the owner, to allow space for someone else. Abuse of this became RAMPANT.

Server owners need to start wising up. We are only processing about 20 to 30% of server requests for hosting due to the massive volume of offers. The clan servers need to realize they cannot just do whatever they feel like because their actions affect the rest of the game and the servers.

Think about it, if we let server owners do this, what is stopping them from kicking someone who just killed them? What is to stop them kicking people for arbitrary reasons? Who polices this? The policy is in place because it makes sense.

We've been pretty lenient so far, but it is causing us a lot of work to deal with these people being difficult and it has delayed development. Please try and think how hard our job is to balance everything, and realize that if your clan/group is asking for exceptions then there are hundreds of other people probably asking too. Also realize that we have been burned several times, resulting in the need for costly and time consuming backups to be restored.

The current rules weren't picked out of nowhere, we know they aren't perfect. We're just trying to make the best of the situation and keep things going.

In short, their are only two reasons why you, as a server owner, should ban a player on your server. Those two reasons are: Malicious talk, and racism. You may not ban a user for stealing your loot, killing you, spying on you, etc.

[tajin 17]

Good thing that a clear statment about this has been made now.

*thumbs up*

Beeing allowed to host a server is not only a service to the community, it is also a privilege that not everyone gets. I think server owners would do well to keep that in mind.

[Ribbotson 1]

And the whole 'kicking for an admin' isn't really an acceptable excuse either. If it's not an urgent issue, the admin can simply wait for a slot to free up by raping his enter button like the rest of us plebs. RCon anyone?

[landstriker 9]

Good thing that a clear statment about this has been made now.

*thumbs up*

Beeing allowed to host a server is not only a service to the community' date=' it is also a privilege that not everyone gets. I think server owners would do well to keep that in mind.

[/quote']

Exactly. It's not their personal play ground just because they pay for the servers. On a side note: I've haven't had any problems with the various servers I've played on, either with admins or being kicked or locked out of a session, which goes to prove that there is a lot of good, solid and proper admins out there. Just glad to be a part of the community. :)

[cat (DayZ) 22]

The problem is however that this community runs on servers paid by private server owners. So I find it a bit arrogant to to make server owners jump through hoops like this (and talking about how one should be thankful to have this "privilege" is downright pompous). I think the problem is now that the mod is so popular that the mod can allow to force server owners to jump these hoops (who get absolutely nothing out of it, not even a guaranteed playing spot on their own server).

I saw similar attitudes on BF2 PR and ARMA2 PR and I find it absolutely inappropriate how server owners are being treated.

And rocket basically admitted they can handpick who gets a "license" because the supply of server offers exceeds the demand. And forbidding slot reservation (by kicking) or locking is basically abusing their current position of power.

Do not get me wrong, the mod is absolutely awesome, but the way server owners are treated just because the mod can currently afford it is just retarded.

If I want to host a server for which I pay myself for others to play I do not like someone to tell me how I have to run it. There are slight exceptions, like preventing cheating.

[FreedomTea 9]

I didnt want to make a fresh topic for this because its purely heresay, and I dont understand what is and what is not possible as a server owner, but on EU13 yesterday about four different players were arguing that a server (I believe EU14, not certain) was giving out free M249s to everyone whom joined as an incentive to keep that server as their "home" server.

I dont like posting speculation but in my eyes thats very very serious and would horrible unbalance the game across all servers.

My question, do server administrators have the ability to do something as horrific as this?

[landstriker 9]

Do not get me wrong' date=' the mod is absolutely awesome, but the way server owners are treated just because the mod can currently afford it is just retarded.

If I want to host a server for which I pay myself for others to play I do not like someone to tell me how I have to run it. There are slight exceptions, like preventing cheating.

[/quote']

You do not own the rights for the mod nor the files. It IS a privileged to be allowed to run the mod on your server. If you do not wish to follow the rules set by the developers, then why host a server in the first place?

[tajin 17]

If I want to host a server for which I pay myself for others to play I do not like someone to tell me how I have to run it. There are slight exceptions' date=' like preventing cheating.

[/quote']

Normally I would agree. However, since all servers connect to the same database, it just doesn't work like that. So yes, beeing allowed to connect your server to that database IS a privilege.

[oilman 72]

Thankyou Rocket, I was getting sick of explaining this! :)

[htl (nor) 0]

I assume it is still ok to kick players spamming the chat on the Norwegian servers in other languages other than Norwegian or English?

After a couple of warnings that is.

To make my question more general, are we allowed to enforce languages spoken in the chat (and Viop) on country specific servers?

[rocket 16567]

There is nothing pompus about it, the issues are:

- We all share the same central server. That means giving access to that central server to a game server is taking on risk.

- We only have a finite amount of administrative resources. Therefore we have to perform triage and choose the easiest, most time-effective servers who cause us the least issues.

- We have only a finite amount of resources on the central server. The impact of a server with five players is about the same as the impact of a server with 50 players as the connection is left open. So we prioritize those servers who allow the maximum amount of players.

We are not "treating server owners this way" because we can "afford" too. We are doing this because it is the only way we can cope. Please, walk a mile in my shoes for a moment. We have grown from ZERO players to SIXTY THOUSAND players in FOUR WEEKS. We are getting an average of an email every two minutes. It is only going to get worse, and that means we will probably have less resources and have to make even tougher calls.

We don't really have an option, it is either we do this or we simply close the whole project down for a few weeks. We originally wanted to release the server files publically and open the whole project up, but the incidents of hacking we were having from several existing server owners made us realize just how bad this would become if we released it.

I really, really think many people underestimate just how stressful this kind of project is, and just how much strain it places on resources. They demand responses to emails immediately and they want us to customize everything to meet their demands. They get angry when we won't agree to setup 10 or 20 slot private servers. Shortly, because we can't cope with the existing system, we will probably begin denying server setup for any boxes that cannot host a minimum of one 50 slot server. Priority will be given to big servers that can host 2 or more. This is a matter of triage. I mean, if someone else has a real suggestion - I'm all ears. But we have to prioritize somehow.

Please bear in mind, I rent several servers myself and have donated money to many of the servers donation funds. My entire spare time is committed to the project, and I have only insisted on one real rule for server owners:

Everyone gets equal, fair, access to the world

[Pallidum 33]

I for one thank you, Rocket, and all the other DayZ staff.

I've administered data centers for big launches, and I know firsthand how stressful it can be not only in terms of administering the hardware, software and code, but also to handle all the emails, phonecalls and conversations.

If needed, I'd be happy to offer my services in any form I can.

[Fionny 7]

Fair play for standing strong on this! Keep up the excellent work. Is there a central donation account somewhere that I could throw a few bob in?

[grio 0]

I think the Dayz team is doing the best they can with the resources they have. Their main server only can handle so much. It is showing it with the amount of people that jumped from 0 to to over 30k in a few weeks. That was something they had no plans for.

They are doing their best to prevent any cheating what so ever even by admin/ server owner abuse.

TBH this is an ALPHA. I'm surprised that the dayz team has spent soo much time helping server owners and servers stay up.

Before asking for an ext-ream amount of support / custom shit. Let them finish the god damn mod.

Yeah sure reserved slots would be nice but this current system is not even done. They have a huge god damn to do list. With bugs, more content. The game is ONLY in ALPHA. Most games wont even let you touch alpha. Just in ALPHA this is damn popular. I wouldn't expect minor bugs to be fixed until beta.

I would see allowing Reserved slots to be ok.

Custom weapons custom skins and that junk I really don't see that fine....

Many people would love to donate to dayz to help its main server to keep the dev running. Dayz does not wish to accept donations though.

Alpha testing

Alpha testing is simulated or actual operational testing by potential users/customers or an independent test team at the developers' site. Alpha testing is often employed for off-the-shelf software as a form of internal acceptance testing, before the software goes to beta testing.[33]

[edit]Beta testing

Beta testing comes after alpha testing and can be considered a form of external user acceptance testing. Versions of the software, known as beta versions, are released to a limited audience outside of the programming team. The software is released to groups of people so that further testing can ensure the product has few faults or bugs. Sometimes, beta versions are made available to the open public to increase the feedback field to a maximal number of future users.[citation needed]

[iogc_broadsword 33]

All credit to you for this Rocket and it must be a nightmare dealing with the day to day hassles created by the mod. You and the team have done a fantastic job so far, and maybe in hindsight there should have been a closed Alpha with a limited number of servers and players making it a little more manageable for all concerned in the project.

However you look at this it's a damn fine job and you should be very proud of what you have achieved for the title considering the close proximity of the Arma III launch, and how busy you must be with that.

I do believe many of the problems arise from the sheer numbers of players and server renters that have come into the game late on and have no idea about the complexity of Arma or any idea of the game and server mechanics itself. This is not just like renting a BF3 server and having a GSP setup slots for you, ArmA requires work to maintain.

There will always be unscrupulous players and admins who will take any opportunity to exploit a game to meet their own small minded needs, this unfortunately has been happening since the Operation Flashpoint days and is not as we all know not just limited to this mil sim.

ArmA has a great global community as you have stated in your interviews and this is purely down to the fact that unlike many game developers ArmA and it's predecessors were designed with modders and tweakers in mind rite from the get go, and this has kept the game alive for so long.

I thank you on behalf of my own community and the ArmA community in general. Hats off to you sir and keep marching on. If there is any small way that I can assist then please let me know.

[c.chris.perry@gmail.com 17]

I don't get it, what is the incentive to pay hundreds of dollars a month if you can't even play with your friends when you want to? Either get reserve slots or allow kicking of high ping players when a clanmante wants to join. I mean, it's already hard enough to even get the code to host the game. People are sitting there hemorrhaging real life money to host a game, when they were told all they had to do was buy a server, set it up and give the rdp info to DayZ, yet DayZ just ignores them and they are out money. The goodwill of server owners is going to run out pretty quick, there hasn't even been enough time to get a few cycles on the payments they are making. I feel like when these hosts start realizing that they are paying all this money for no benefit, onlyto be told they can't control THEIR server, you are going to start losing servers quickly.

[masacrualex 6]

I don't get it' date=' what is the incentive to pay hundreds of dollars a month if you can't even play with your friends when you want to? Either get reserve slots or allow kicking of high ping players when a clanmante wants to join. I mean, it's already hard enough to even get the code to host the game. People are sitting there hemorrhaging real life money to host a game, when they were told all they had to do was buy a server, set it up and give the rdp info to DayZ, yet DayZ just ignores them and they are out money. The goodwill of server owners is going to run out pretty quick, there hasn't even been enough time to get a few cycles on the payments they are making. I feel like when these hosts start realizing that they are paying all this money for no benefit, onlyto be told they can't control THEIR server, you are going to start losing servers quickly.

[/quote']

NO, rocket should just get rid of those servers and allow in servers who get the sentence "Everyone is equal".

Why keep rotten apples in the bunch when you can remove them and get fresh apples? The mod won't lose servers at all. On the contrary.

If your friend wants to join your server he'll have to try and join like everyone else. Get the points Rocket threw across and you'll get it.

[drakenof 9]

There's two reserved slots on the EU7 server. Two reserved slot on a 40 slots server, for the two admins of the server.

When we have to go in we always try to kick high pings or people in lobby.

I think it's fair. And in any case, i will not change that. I can understand what you're saying regarding CLAN MEMBERS, but for SERVER ADMINS ? Yeah no. Sorry.

[FreedomTea 9]

I only play on servers where the admins refuse to kick to enter, they are gentlemen.

[grio 0]

Also great idea. Apply with the server info you intend to use than wait for the acceptance or rejection of hosting a server. If it were me I would have looked into hosting the server before going out and buying a host..

[c.chris.perry@gmail.com 17]

Okay, I'll address one of his points:

- We have only a finite amount of resources on the central server. The impact of a server with five players is about the same as the impact of a server with 50 players as the connection is left open. So we prioritize those servers who allow the maximum amount of players.

How does this make not allowing people to kick players a bad thing. If a server admin has to kick someone to let his clanmate in, then the server is already at capacity, and will stay that way.

The other issues seem to be an issue of manpower, which can easily be resolved by the fact that there are thousands of people trying to help out. Maybe rocket/dev team should continue to bring more people on to help out. Honestly, until there are reserve slots, there NEEDS to be a way for server admins to have some sort of control over who gets onto their servers. I don't care if you have also paid for a server, that server admin is paying for that hardware that is hosting your game, they aren't cheap either. You guys are getting upset over kicking people, when there are MUCH larger host abuse issues (i.e. Chicago 3 making all vehicles explode randomly and then BLASTING music that can't be muted as it isn't someone chatting, it's just the admin abusing the hell out his power) that apparently can't even be dealt with. Kicking people to get a buddy on the server should be the last priority of who gets dropped for servers.

---

Also great idea. Apply with the server info you intend to use than wait for the acceptance or rejection of hosting a server. If it were me I would have looked into hosting the server before going out and buying a host..

That doesn't work, they won't give you info unless you already have the server.

[boneboys 7988]

There's two reserved slots on the EU7 server. Two reserved slot on a 40 slots server' date=' for the two admins of the server.

When we have to go in we always try to kick high pings or people in lobby.

I think it's fair. And in any case, i will not change that. I can understand what you're saying regarding [b']CLAN MEMBERS, but for SERVER ADMINS ? Yeah no. Sorry.

I prefer playing on a sever where the admins are active/present, do you give a little message when you do this.

Thanks.

[drakenof 9]

The admins can be present without kicking anyone, using the RCON tool.

But when i want to go on the server for some reason, and the server is full ( when i mean full, i really mean it ), like i said i kick someone in the lobby / high-ping and i get in.

And yes i leave a standard kick message ( Admin Slot etc... ).

[salgor 2]

maybe enploy someone with a high play time to monitor servers and if needed ban the server and the admins.

[Spookz0r 12]

Too bad this happens here. You see this in a lot of games. Some admins are just dicks :( 99% is ok the other 1% are just power hungry