1.7.2 Opinion thread. All your opinions, good and bad, go here.

[CromTheBeast 0]

New zombie AI is a little easy giving up on the chase, and losing them in towns. Really doesn't feel like as much of any threat when you can run nonstop basically unless near starving, bleeding, or thirst.

[chrismgtis 55]

Only issue I've come across is the one where wearing a skin causes issues (ie for me I logged on naked/invisible but had all my items).

[Cpt. Balu 0]

Speaking from a game designer's standpoint the 'realism' mentality with the zeds right now is completely out the window.

For instance lets say that these zombies are freshly made with decent eyesight, someone made a point that they shouldn't be able to tell survivor vs zombie on sight alone, I agree. Additionally the developer's comment to 'try break their los quickly as opposed to silently sneaking' with the current gimmicks and glitches is like walking out onto an airfield glowing bright pink, you'll just aggro more and probably die. [insert dev trollface]

If the zeds stay as is, then we really need to get starter weapons back. Just like zombies being at their peak, the survivors likely did something/had something that made them the lucky ones to survive. Seriously if i'm alive after the initial outbreak i probably scrounged some food and water and for sure a weapon. Starting with zero defensive measures itself IS unrealistic. Getting into a town after crawling for 50 minutes and careful attention to zed locations still netted me a bite in the ass from a zed walking through a wall and the subsequent 10 minute run where i tried buildings/hills/los/docks with no luck breaking the angry bugger off. Picking up a rock is marginally less effective than a crowbar let me at least try that...

Secondly the noise level we make when crouching/running etc are completely off. Almost all of them are boosted in the extreme further contributing to our very short lifespans. I know for a fact that you can crouch run and sprint with boots on pavement/concrete without a normal human hearing you until you are within 8-20 meters as opposed to the tap dancing performance survivors deliver in game.

Lastly, if the intention was to have the 28days later rage zombies, they have 1 thing in mind only: food. IE straight beelines to targets and no magical teleportation abilities. The biggest threat from zeds should come from getting overwhelmed by mistakes by players and multiple aggro, not 1 magical zombie breaking the sound barrier.

on another note: i've noticed the game spawning zeds just for me in areas that i scouted out as having no zeds. which is fine, but EVERY SINGLE ONE was spawned heading right at my movement path. after another hour of testing this theory I can only say that new zeds always head toward where you will be if you keep moving in a line. THIS is just frustrating and beyond unrealistic. Just because zombie engagements are interesting and should happen doesn't mean 100% of them need to be locked onto you like a laser guided missile. Let em roam properly around town. This feature makes planning a entrance into town completely useless 100% of the time, what's the point of playing intelligently if 100% of the time you will get blocked...

done with the complaints for now. love the game but needs mechanical fixes and zombie ai tweaks, hope they keep the changes coming and take our input.

I fully agree with that. Especially with that "noise level on asphalt" point.

So there goes my opinion: I see no point in sneaking into town anymore, play it the "realistic" way. So I succesfully sneak around 10 zombies and then all of a sudden I aggro a zombie from 100m away and he's all like literally flying at me with this superspeed and maneuverability. After that, I have to cancel sneaking, stand up, run somewhere else in hope to find a suiting building to LoS'ing him. That leaves me with the question as to why sneak in the first place when at some point I will be forced to run anyways by making the slightest mistake?

The other option is to crawl ALL the time while in an area full of zombies. No, thanks, I did not start the game "Crawling Simulator 2012". This is 1.7.1.4 all over again :@

I liked the zombies from 1.7.1.5 and was looking forward to see the "zombies hear you trough 3D objects less likely" change. But now, there was somewhere a tradeoff: they hear you less, but see you better. Not liking this much.

We can have all those superseeing/hearing zombies, but make them slower! They run as fast as you and will follow you troughout whole Chernarus without losing distance for forever. To be fair, I have to add that losing them is a bit easier now, but still only if you have some obstacles in your path. On an open field, the keep following you like crazy fangirls :lol:

[Mastiff (DayZ) 42]

cant say i am surprised when i watch over people creeping into a town slowly and quietly only for them to magically trigger a handful of zeds through buildings, ive seen a lot more people who having done this go for a full sprint to where they want to go and then just log out and back in. whilst the zeds needed altering they needed fixing before being boosted

[twotoes 11]

Enjoying .2 so far.

Aggro does seam more random and like it.

Performance still an issue for me when there's other playing around.

Like it.

[NilJake 0]

1. Give any kind of weapon, melee or ranged at start, (reason: the game is really tough of new players and a bit frustrating sometimes to the oldies while starting naked)

1.2. Optional way, add some decent loot spots to the spawn locations not near cherno or elektro, for example kamenka and komarova. Currently they are filled with industrial loots, more residential and especially farm loots near the spawns.

2. Fix the disappearing loots bug

3. Make zombies run more realistic when aggroed, not zig-zag

Thats 3 step to glory, after that you can just sit back and watch the sales go sky high!

Edited July 11, 2012 by NilJake

[pkolbo 16]

I enjoy a challenge and don't mind altering my play style if it turns out to be a fun experience. The only problem is I've already gained a ton of experience on the mechanics as they were before. And I really enjoyed sneaking through town, on the lookout in both sight and sound for zombies, always aware of a misstep or another player could change everything. It was doable. You knew what you had to do and you believed you could make through. Now you just have to throw that out the window because everything has changed. That does not equal fun. What I can't figure out is what exactly you need to do to survive.

I've tried sneaking as before, only to have a random zombie sprint towards me from out of my view range, over a hill (not a joke). Add to that the amount of new spawned zombies means they are facing every direction, so avoiding their new, longer sightlines is nearly impossible. There is no plan of attack because they either move towards your path telepathically or respawn in such numbers on your target that one of them is bound to "exponentially" see you - Ok, I get it. No sneaking.

Next, let's try aggroing a group and taking them out to the countryside and killing them away from town. No problem, got all 12 of them down. Time to head back in and scoop up the hard earned loot. Wait, nope, another 17 just spawned and are shambling this way. All-right then, no baiting.

What I can't figure out is where the fun is? The only other option I see is straight up gunning them down as you run through town. Who has enough ammo to do that? Plus, that is not why I play this game. There are many other games that have much better fps mechanics, no offence to the dev team.

Or is it that you now sprint in trying to loot on the run? I don't think it's possible with the Arma II inventory mechanics.

I liked the previous patch. Sure maybe it wasn't realistic, but zombies were still a threat. And sneaking around them was fun and based on skill. You had to look and listen and it was exhilarating. Even more; it was possible. Now it feels more based on some RNG exponential luck of the draw, not experience. The loot being random was fun. Aggro being random is not. Actually looking and moving and crouching and fearing I felt was the heart of the game. Now there's so much aggro, it has devolved into a thin veneer of an fps without the ammo to go with it. I can no longer tell why I am playing this game at its current level.

Maybe over some time I will be able to see the strategy to the zombies, and I still hope that it is true. But its a cold shower to change things so drastically when there are other missing pieces that have yet to be addressed.

[Bribase 251]

I'm genuinely in two minds about the new infected behaviour. I started a new character (the private hive server I usually play on has not updated yet) and made my way into Cherno. I got the hang of things pretty quickly when I realized that instead of expecting a bit of caution and attention to your noise meter getting you in and out of town with all of the supplies you need with no hassle, instead you should EXPECT TO CATCH AGGRO but the Zs are much easier to get off of your tail. This had the effect of bringing more of the terrain into play; Instead of making your way through the streets while paying attention to nothing more than your noise meter and the closest enterable building to lose zombies in, it encouraged me to look for shadowed areas, small nooks and crannies and alleyways to hide in. I had a blast with the new emphasis on zombie vision instead of sound, easily getting chased but using my human wits to lose them.

This also brought anti PvP tactics into line with the tactics employed to avoid Zs. Instead of happliy staying quiet while in the open to avoid the hordes and limiting LOS to potential sniper positions to avoid PvP. The tactics are similar; stay right against a wall to limit LOS to 180°, hopefully in shadow, move quickly and lean around corners, don't ever think you are in a safe position.

All of that fun changed when I got out of the city though. Komarovo was swarming with Zs, all heading along the road leading North. Between trying to follow the pathing of some 20 Zs while trying to get the hang of the vision range in the debug window, all the while trying to figure out an evasion route while knowing that using one of the steep hills on either side of the road would slow me down, not them, the game began to feel broken. Just as I thought to myself "This would all be so much easier if I was in Cherno or Electro" a Z spotted me from about 80m away. And therein lies the problem. The game starts to feel broken because you feel like you're under a lot of pressure to stay out of LOS of zombies between 20-50m away but your'e doing everything right to stay undetected, then one Z from much further away than that, often over the brow of a hill or through some terrain that you thought would impede their vision manages to spot you.

If we are dealing with infected, that is enraged humans that are going on instinct and not the undead. Then their eyesight should be better than in 1.7.1.5 that's for sure. But what Rocket gave them was the ability to tell the difference between foe or friend (well... fellow infected) from an incredible distance. I think a hotfix should allow aggro within 70-80m of a player but beyond that a Z that spots you should investigate what they see, perhaps at a speed between the zombie shuffle and the aggro sprint. We shouldn't see Zs running up to you from 150m away, we should see them as inquisitve up to a certain distance and then fully enraged when they get closer.

On another note, I think the moaning about changing the zombie behaviour while not paying attention to other pressing issues like Alt+F4, server hopping and offmap hoarding is a bit missguided. Rocket knows that the zombies are 50% of the core gameplay. The infected ought to inform just about everything else in the game from loot distribution to the limits on metagaming. If he doesn't handle the zombie behaviour now then dramatic changes he makes to it later will be much worse.

[Parrin 1]

As mentioned, literally impossible to get started now, especially for new players...

The aggro distance is absolutely ridiculous, you'd have thought they'd of learned from 1.7.1 I think it was, when they fucked up the audability?

My experiences so far..

Joined server, male/female screen... Lost all my shit.

Got started, died like 3 times just trying to find a weapon, as unless they're facing away it's literally impossible to do anything.

Got a lee enfield, m1911, alice pack, loads of food and a double barrel shotgun for my friend, disconnected to switch to their server so I could meet them, lost all my stuff, male/female screen again.

So, so far, BROKEN.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Parrin

[harkonian 4]

The new Zombie sight radius. It's pretty insane ... I just got spotted, crouched in tall grass, not moving, at 50m. That's a bit much, isn't it?

The purpose of the change in the zed detection algorithm is to force survivors to use cover and concealment rather than just crawling along the ground and being nearly immune to zombie detection. If you move from cover to cover, you'll have a much easier time than trying to crawl along the ground or crouch. In your debug window there is a new variable: visibility. This will show you just how visible you are to zombies. For example, crawl across a road, and that will shoot up to maximum, something like 190. Any zed facing your direction from quite far away will see you. Crawl in the grass and it may be 12 -- crawl across a bare patch in the grass and it will shoot to 30ish. To offset the greater difficulty in moving in the open, infecteds' hearing is reduced by 50% when there is a wall between you and the zed and rocket seems to have reduced the zeds overall hearing somewhat as well.

What this means is that if you are careful you can sprint from cover to cover without agroing zombies by sound alone. Just be careful that they aren't facing your way when you sprint to your next spot and you'll be good.

Edited July 11, 2012 by harkonian

[Shaimou 49]

So audibility is reduced by 50% through objects and walls. I take that zombies dont hear you so well from inside of a building anymore? Does the same go for weapons too?

[kavoriken 1]

I enjoy a challenge and don't mind altering my play style if it turns out to be a fun experience. The only problem is I've already gained a ton of experience on the mechanics as they were before. And I really enjoyed sneaking through town, on the lookout in both sight and sound for zombies, always aware of a misstep or another player could change everything. It was doable. You knew what you had to do and you believed you could make through. Now you just have to throw that out the window because everything has changed. That does not equal fun. What I can't figure out is what exactly you need to do to survive.

I've tried sneaking as before, only to have a random zombie sprint towards me from out of my view range, over a hill (not a joke). Add to that the amount of new spawned zombies means they are facing every direction, so avoiding their new, longer sightlines is nearly impossible. There is no plan of attack because they either move towards your path telepathically or respawn in such numbers on your target that one of them is bound to "exponentially" see you - Ok, I get it. No sneaking.

Next, let's try aggroing a group and taking them out to the countryside and killing them away from town. No problem, got all 12 of them down. Time to head back in and scoop up the hard earned loot. Wait, nope, another 17 just spawned and are shambling this way. All-right then, no baiting.

What I can't figure out is where the fun is? The only other option I see is straight up gunning them down as you run through town. Who has enough ammo to do that? Plus, that is not why I play this game. There are many other games that have much better fps mechanics, no offence to the dev team.

Or is it that you now sprint in trying to loot on the run? I don't think it's possible with the Arma II inventory mechanics.

I liked the previous patch. Sure maybe it wasn't realistic, but zombies were still a threat. And sneaking around them was fun and based on skill. You had to look and listen and it was exhilarating. Even more; it was possible. Now it feels more based on some RNG exponential luck of the draw, not experience. The loot being random was fun. Aggro being random is not. Actually looking and moving and crouching and fearing I felt was the heart of the game. Now there's so much aggro, it has devolved into a thin veneer of an fps without the ammo to go with it. I can no longer tell why I am playing this game at its current level.

Maybe over some time I will be able to see the strategy to the zombies, and I still hope that it is true. But its a cold shower to change things so drastically when there are other missing pieces that have yet to be addressed.

I agree 100%.

I gotta admit.. im fairly new to day z, only played a couple of days on 1.7.1, but i really enjoyed the game so far. I did experience emotions i have never experienced before in a mod/game, and that is quite an achievement. The thing is that the 1.7.2 Aggro changes really ruined the game for me. The excitement when you crouched through a town with a finger on your prone key all the time while watching zombie movement, that was intense. Now I randomly aggro zombies all the time although i do play more cautious than before. Its really frustrating...

The things i like so far are the changes to viewing range and the amount of zombies spawned. It was pretty easy to avoid Zombies by just sitting there waiting for the ones that spawned to walk their path into nowhere and then approach whatever you wanted to approach.

[tomfin 25]

ChiefMasterKush,

There was an issue with a collision of player IDs between players who bought Combined Operations and those who had purchased the ARMA X Anniversary Boxset causing some players to log into the debug plains, completely lose all gear, or be unable to log in at all. This beta change was to fix the collision problem and allow those players back into DayZ.

If you want to have an alternate account then Sacriel has

on his Youtube channel. It's technical, but slightly more convenient than dual-booting or running two Windows user accounts.

And damnit, for every page I read of this topic, two more freshly posted pages are generated. Good luck with finding this message :)

* [NEW] Authentication for duplicate IDs supportive of the new beta patch (ArmAX users)

What does that line mean? Can I have multiple characters?

[d_rohr 0]

I keep reading that zeds being able to hear you through walls/buildings has decreased by 50% but I haven't read anywhere about their sight being decreased through walls/buildings. I think that was my biggest gripe. Now, there sight is increased & no mention about being able to see you behind the closed doors of a house/school. I think that, if you are able to get in undetected & can secure the room/building in the same manner, wouldn't that be a 'safehouse?' Do zeds have the ability to remember, 'that door was open 5 mins ago?' I guess, I just don't understand the dynamics of the zeds. Are they dumb & just driven by instinct? Are they driven by instinct but still have full brain functionality?

Also, if they aggro from a football field away by just seeing your outline, wouldn't they do the same when they see a zed at the same distance? Do they not make mistakes now? I love the idea of 28 Days Later zombies, if that is what they are intended on being, but someone (thing) driven by instinct alone would do just that. It seems like instinct is meshed with logic when they approach a survivor...charge, zig zag, and attack from an angle...

I haven't been playing long but it seems like there have been multiple concepts (major variations) of the types of zeds involved. Can we just settle on an idea & run with it? Once we do, can it be discussed so we can have an idea of what we are dealing with rather than figuring one out & then getting an entirely new type dropped at our doorstep?

[Balllzack 0]

put on camo clothing got telepoted to water then teleported back instanly lost all gear.

not happy.

[Metric (DayZ) 6]

Remember this is a thread to discuss 1.7.2 and remain cool about it. If you want to pick fights with each other please do so somewhere else. Thank you! =D

Nope all our tears and fears are directly stated to go in here, so remaining cool is exactly what this thread is NOT about.

LOL.

Played for about 6 hours last night, the new Zombie aggro range is insane, but is balanced somewhat by being able to outrun them fairly easily over long distances.

You no longer need to be actually moving to aggro them, just being visible is enough, prone or otherwise. We actually had Zombies aggro'd outside of our view distance and were like 'whats that black speck? its getting bigger.. WTF! its a Zombie!'

They spawn back in after killing them, in greater and fgreater numbers, so hanging around anywhere is very dangerous, you basically need to get in, and get out fast or risk being overwhelmed by them.

I actually died while carrying an Uzi and an AKM with plenty of ammo, with my mate beside me with an AKM and a Makarov, purely because they broke my legs and we just couldn't shoot them fast enough to stop them. Must say its the first time ever that I've been legitimately overwhelmed by Zombies while in the company of a clannie and well armed. Certainly makes Zombies a much more potent force.

Spawns are all weirded out again, seems that the loot tables have rotated slightly and now there is a different bunch of stuff over spawning with some items being nearly impossible to find that used to be common and vice versa. Nothing unusual about that though.

Backpacks spawn everywhere, you can get a coyote backpack nearly immediately, with most Red houses and Supermarkets having several different backpacks at a time. Very handy.

First few times I was player killed last night I respawned with all of my stuff, at the point in time that I entered the server, meaning player states aren't updating in real time.

When the Zombies killed me, I couldn't get back into any server anywhere for nearly an hour and a half before I gave up and went to bed. It just hung at waiting for character to create endlessly.

Overall, I really like the excessive aggro range and massive difficulty the Zombies now represent, might actually stop the rampant pk'ing if shooting is much riskier.

[kirai 18]

Just one thing. When did zombies get intelligent? As far as I can see, they are not so they should be less intelligent then a normal player and not run in a zig zag pattern just to not get shot nor run up hills normal players can't. The agro part is also a bit over the top. Sure for hardcore players it might be just fine but everyone isn't so why keep on doing it more difficult then it was?I love the realism but it seems like they add things just to get it more difficult not to make it more realistic. This is just my opinion.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Secutor

[uberwolfe 25]

The good news is I kept my character and all my gear, no problem.

The bad news is I am not keen on the new Z ai.

How am I spotted while sneaking through bushes and long grass while pressed up against a fence line? Not by the zombies that are directly in front of me, but by some random Z shambling along in the distance?

The crawling while prone system is now really the only way to get through towns. The cover-to-cover crouch run is no longer viable. Sadly.

You can still crawl past a zombie only meteres away from you. I don't enjoy being forced to crawl through towns explicitly.

It is now worthless to scope out towns and plan your path as I did before, you are now better off hitting prone about 100-meters out of town and crawling your way through. Not fun.

What a shame.. this update was highly anticipated looks like the general consensus is that it's a bummer.

I shudder to think how it must be for new characters.

Also, I'm starting the think that the more we dislike this game, the happier Rocket is....

Edited July 11, 2012 by uberwolfe

[pkolbo 16]

I went back in to try and see if I was doing it wrong. I tried hiding and crouching staying out of sight of any zombie, but it was useless. I couldn't see them, but they sure as hell could see me. I understand that there needs to be some risk of discovery, but what the hell are we supposed to do against a 90% discovery rate regardless of behavior? Before I could make it through a town no problem. It wasn't easy, but it was doable and extremely fun. I experienced a feeling I've never had playing a game, discovering loot and planning routes.

Now I feel dumped on. Everything's changed, and as much as I like a challenge, the allure of the game is gone. No longer is it a fun risk, its now just run into town, get slapped by zombies and hope I've hoarded enough bandages from the previous patch to survive. God this was so fun just a patch ago!

[tagg 13]

it seems to me that there is more 'nerfing ___ this patch to compensate for problem A..... only to Fix/buff Problem A without going back and buffing _____'

prior to this patch, crouch running had been nerfed Sight wise in order to compensate for zombies being half blind.... which was 'ok'

NOW... you buff zombie sight range to... almost scoped at times it seems (lol) without RE-buffing Crouch running. so now you have crouch running which is only slightly more 'sneaky' then simply running/sprinting... and even crouched walking is only slightly more stealthy then crouch Running............

so in the end you have prone for less then 20 visibility(or so...) or crouch walking for 50, C-R for 60-80, running for 90-120 and.. sprinting for 80-120-190+

and zombies able to see you when you are not moving, and even when your crouched(so walk/run does not matter)

Re-buff crouch running and crouch walk... and would be better I think.

IN REGARDS TO THE ZOMBIES: I kinda.. almost... sorta... like the new 'oh god i gotta be stealthy or i am swarmed' approach... BUT...currently the only way to be stealthy is to be prone.... which takes ages... (or to all out sprint through towns hoping to find a door that leads to a building with a rear exit... or... logging out every couple blocks and relogging in) /shrug

and ... x-x standing 100% still should REDUCE YOUR VISIBILITY by a ton compared to moving...lol, but oh well.

EDIT: yeah... you can be on the roof of a building do a 360 degree look around, see absolutely no zombies in sight from the roof/tower (for blocks...)... and decide to climb back down the ladder.... and you more then likely will be swarmed at the bottom a moment or two after touching down due to zombies being able to see through walls/blocks/cities which... is not cool! xD i doubt a zombie virus would provide Superman-like X-ray eyes and the ability to run through walls unhurt (and yeah I know thats a bug in the Arma 2 system...)

ALSO CONGRATZ ROCKET!!! YOU BROKE YOUR HOST GAME WITH YOUR PATCHES! lolololololololol..... try loading up the editor with the current patches applied... almost all vehicles/buildings/guns/etc have been removed... and some missions no longer work because of it xD /highfive)

oh... and a bug that is actually COOL ... if you are trying to outrun zombies and happen to find a downhill slope... they might actually run fast enough to leave the ground.... and fall to their deaths xD (they are no longer slowed while running up or down slopes so they move TOO fast XD... totally worth risking a respawn if you just lost your gear to the update, to see a zombie fly... and die)

Edit 2: .... PLEASE I BEG YOU TO REMOVE THE 'system loaded, please wait' menu that pops up just before you spawn in.... it has killed me at least twice now...(you spawn in unable to move or do anything till it disappears and actually allows you in)

---------------------------------------------------------------

God have mercy on the new people lol....... Cause I sure wont

Edited July 11, 2012 by tagg

[malzie 2]

From the little time I've been able to play .2 everything seems pretty cool except the eagle eyed aggro of zombies. While I do understand that a moving object is easy to see, we must keep in mind that zombies do not or would not see as well as a normal human. Why? Because their eyes are rotting out of their head! The big question is, what can be done to make the game keep an element of fear of zombies while improving the end game gear?

My experience is that I was slow crouch walking into a town today and of the 5 or more zombies that were in the area (all of which were facing me) two of them aggro'd while I was still a good 100 meters out of town. I was stunned and ran as far out of town as possible while these two zombies chased me. But in looking back I noticed I had ran full sprint past a zombie no more than 10 meters away who didn't even miss a step out of his slow patrol path. What happened?! I can aggro a couple of zombies while being ultra careful, but when sprinting right next to a zombie it doesn't care? Is my mind playing tricks on me in this zombie apocalypse?!

This game is fun, obviously. But when those of us who do not use the "run through town, aggro every zombie within 15km and then run through a shed to lose them" approach are punished or lose the stealth ability that we rely on, the game loses all enjoyment. All in all, I must say this game is awesome! I think I can speak for most people when I say updates feel like a mini Christmas morning as we get to see the new changes in live time. Keep up the good work! I just hope these minor annoyances can get fixed quickly.

[Ankhenaten 111]

got mobbed twice... with two characters. Shot 10 thne next ten did quque up and didn't even get down with Lee Enfield close contact breast shots.. Could collect Gear as before, also with prone but exponential really seems to mean exponential distance. So zeds ages away seems to see you suddenly randomly. The ARMA hit model isn't built for mobbing. I played about 25 characters, 2 in the new patch. It seems more luck now than skill in patience and crouching.

Best way to survive, don't log on ;)

[Denuth 21]

Nope all our tears and fears are directly stated to go in here, so remaining cool is exactly what this thread is NOT about.

LOL.

My thread title was changed by the moderator, because he evidently wanted this to happen.

[FlashHawk4 44]

Just in case no one else has, I just checked the pack-eats-guns glitch...not fixed.

[FlashHawk4 44]

Also, I have to chip in with the "OMFG ROCKET WTH ZOMBIES ARE SO OP I RAGEQUIT AAAAARGH" Bandwagon.

I appreciate how you're trying to make zombies more hazardous to players, but I have to say I feel that you did it in the worst way possible. Now new players REALLY can't survive, but ir's not as bad of a hindrance to guys who actually DO have automatic weapons. It should be the other way around, shouldn't it?

I have to say, I much prefer many of the solutions proposed in the Suggestions forum beforehand to what you've done. Even making them more bulletproof, as much as I would hate that.