Bring back authentic gun ballstics

[lakevu 98]

40 minutes ago, Mjones (DayZ) said:

I understand you want movement to change, but you coming in here going off topic, shouting down and dereailing every time someone mentions anything other than what you want is not helping any - actually quite insufferable. You want an overhaul of the whole game. Eseentially a new game, at this point. 

I do however, think changing the values of the guns, is something the devs can and more willing to do.

I dont agree that the old movement is better. Were you around for the unlimited stamina, unlimited sprint going 35m/h?and overall clunky movement?

Go bump your old thread

no the topic is the same. because it is connected to a bigger picture of the total problem.

that problem being the infestation of "arcadness" into every level of the game. and you gun damage values being one of them.

and i am not derailing anything. because you are correct. these values are not right and are a reflection of a arcade fantasy shooter than a survival SIMULATOR.

i am merely trying to. enlighten you. to the core issue at heart here so you can spend you time fixing the source instead of just one of its many symptoms.

right? because we want to cure the cancer not just fix that hair is falling out with implants. right? the source? not the symptoms.

[Mjones (DayZ) 48]

Jesus christ dude. You must love hearing yourself talk.

You have replied to everyone with the same spiel. 

Calm down, alright?

 

Edited November 24, 2023 by Mjones (DayZ)

[lakevu 98]

16 hours ago, Mjones (DayZ) said:

Jesus christ dude. You must love hearing yourself talk.

You have replied to everyone with the same spiel. 

Calm down, alright?

 

i think youve got a problem man. something of envy or just jealousy of some kind instead of admiration for the fact i was able to discover this fact about the game and then share it with you

the reason ive given everyone the same answer is because they are all connected. there is a hierarchy of factors of the game of which ones come before the other in a logical sequence of importance. all starting with the movement.

should i not give the correct answer or share the truth because it annoys you? 

you SHOULD BE congratulating me not condemning me for showing you the source problem to your issue and telling you what needs to change if you want the game to go back to being the way you want it to be. which is "realistic"

[Sean_87__ 56]

The games movement needs to be fixed as well, but the thread was originally about ballistics. The movement is too fast and the gear we can carry is too much. The side to side movement is too fast as well. Looking through scopes while moving is too easy. Running up hill at the same rate as a level field is insane. Running down hill is also ridiculously fast without the consequences of possibly tripping and getting seriously injured. You are both in the same camp of making the game behave more realistically. Not sure why you guys are arguing with each other. Plenty of guys to argue with on here that would prefer the game to get even more un realistic than it already is.

[lakevu 98]

10 minutes ago, Sean_87__ said:

The games movement needs to be fixed as well, but the thread was originally about ballistics. The movement is too fast and the gear we can carry is too much. The side to side movement is too fast as well. Looking through scopes while moving is too easy. Running up hill at the same rate as a level field is insane. Running down hill is also ridiculously fast without the consequences of possibly tripping and getting seriously injured. You are both in the same camp of making the game behave more realistically. Not sure why you guys are arguing with each other. Plenty of guys to argue with on here that would prefer the game to get even more un realistic than it already is.

this is fact.

but the reason i am insistent on movement being the source change to focused on and advocated for and not ballistics. is because it is the starting point which everything else works from.

movement dictates the gunplay, and then dictates the vehicles. which then dictates the sounds. and then finally at the very end of the logical chain of making the game. dictates more minutia details like gun damage values.

MOVEMENT IS THE KEY. and effects everything else in the game. including what jones here wants fixed.

if you fix the movement you can fix the whole game and everything about which comes after it. and then we can all BE HAPPY because then dayz will go back to being what IT IS and SHOULD BE. that of a zombie apocalypse survival simulator. a simulator. not a shooter.

[Mjones (DayZ) 48]

16 hours ago, Sean_87__ said:

The games movement needs to be fixed as well, but the thread was originally about ballistics. The movement is too fast and the gear we can carry is too much. The side to side movement is too fast as well. Looking through scopes while moving is too easy. Running up hill at the same rate as a level field is insane. Running down hill is also ridiculously fast without the consequences of possibly tripping and getting seriously injured. You are both in the same camp of making the game behave more realistically. Not sure why you guys are arguing with each other. Plenty of guys to argue with on here that would prefer the game to get even more un realistic than it already is.

I wouldn't bother with this guy. Shit, i tried, but he just wants to argue with me.

Hes like a broken record, on some sort of god savior complex. Spouting about enlightenment, saving us from impure thoughts ( anything other than agreeing with him) and wanting to be congratulated and worshipped. 

 

Edited November 25, 2023 by Mjones (DayZ)

[lakevu 98]

9 hours ago, Mjones (DayZ) said:

I wouldn't bother with this guy. Shit, i tried, but he just wants to argue with me.

Hes like a broken record, on some sort of god savior complex. Spouting about enlightenment, saving us from impure thoughts ( anything other than agreeing with him) and wanting to be congratulated and worshipped. 

 

clearly your value is not in the game itself but in this one selective piece you dont agree with. otherwise you wouldnt be acting this way towards me and acting like a complete and total child.

and no i dont want to be worshipped but to be treated like complete garbage like you've treated me is beyond disrespectful and just wrong

Edited November 25, 2023 by lakevu

[Kyiara 790]

Hi, I will look into this topic a bit later, but from what I've seen so far, we can try to be as realistic as possible. However, for this type of game, there always has to be some balance. Since it's not a simulator, balance is necessary.

Sure, there can be a discussion about how the balance should be achieved, and once I read more, I will check what I could forward to the developers as feedback.

As in every discussion, people have different views on how things should work or be done. And yes, the developers are often trying to satisfy the majority of the players while also maintaining the vision they have for the game. Trust me, finding balance in all of this is pretty hard.

Arguing is nice, but let's keep in mind that arguing should not end in personal attacks or trying to overrun the other person. It's about finding common ground so the game benefits from the discussion. So please, remain nice to each other. Thank you 🙂 

 

[Pyongo Bongo 235]

54 minutes ago, Kyiara said:

 

Sure, there can be a discussion about how the balance should be achieved, and once I read more, I will check what I could forward to the developers as feedback.

 

Thank you! 🙂

This is some of the most direct community interaction we have had since 2013 and exactly what we always wished for 🙂

Edited November 27, 2023 by Pyongo Bongo

[lakevu 98]

10 hours ago, Kyiara said:

Hi, I will look into this topic a bit later, but from what I've seen so far, we can try to be as realistic as possible. However, for this type of game, there always has to be some balance. Since it's not a simulator, balance is necessary.

Sure, there can be a discussion about how the balance should be achieved, and once I read more, I will check what I could forward to the developers as feedback.

As in every discussion, people have different views on how things should work or be done. And yes, the developers are often trying to satisfy the majority of the players while also maintaining the vision they have for the game. Trust me, finding balance in all of this is pretty hard.

Arguing is nice, but let's keep in mind that arguing should not end in personal attacks or trying to overrun the other person. It's about finding common ground so the game benefits from the discussion. So please, remain nice to each other. Thank you 🙂 

 

your starting point is already wrong. "since its not a simulator".

this is not correct. dayz IS a simulator. or it is MEANT TO BE. that is the games identity. that is how it began and that was the intent of the game and its whole existence.

dayz was created to be the definitive zombie game. the deepest experience possible in the simulation of a zombie apocalypse situation. 

to say the game is not a simulator or at the least its identity isn't built on the purpose of being one. is admission you dont know WHAT this game is.

Edited November 27, 2023 by lakevu

[Sean_87__ 56]

On 11/27/2023 at 7:41 AM, Kyiara said:

Hi, I will look into this topic a bit later, but from what I've seen so far, we can try to be as realistic as possible. However, for this type of game, there always has to be some balance. Since it's not a simulator, balance is necessary.

Sure, there can be a discussion about how the balance should be achieved, and once I read more, I will check what I could forward to the developers as feedback.

As in every discussion, people have different views on how things should work or be done. And yes, the developers are often trying to satisfy the majority of the players while also maintaining the vision they have for the game. Trust me, finding balance in all of this is pretty hard.

Arguing is nice, but let's keep in mind that arguing should not end in personal attacks or trying to overrun the other person. It's about finding common ground so the game benefits from the discussion. So please, remain nice to each other. Thank you 🙂 

 

I couldn’t disagree more. I originally bought the game because it’s made by arma devs. I expect a somewhat realistic experience. I do not want balance, like many others, I want realism. I understand that this game has fantasy zombies, but I expect the game to have accurate gun ballistics and player movement. You, as a company, should not be looking to satisfy everyone, only the people who got you this far, the arma crowd. You became a success with a realistic game, continue on the path. If you deviate, you will become like all the other games, which will eventually lead to you losing your original customers. There are not too many companies that make sim shooters or anything representing reality. You should want to stay in that market and have goals of owning it. If you jump into the arcade market, you have a good chance of drowning because there is more competition in said market. Don’t forget who you are and why you became successful!

Edited November 28, 2023 by Sean_87__

[lakevu 98]

2 hours ago, Sean_87__ said:

I couldn’t disagree more. I originally bought the game because it’s made by arma devs. I expect a somewhat realistic experience. I do not want balance, like many others, I want realism. I understand that this game has fantasy zombies, but I expect the game to have accurate gun ballistics and player movement. You, as a company, should not be looking to satisfy everyone, only the people who got you this far, the arma crowd. You became a success with a realistic game, continue on the path. If you deviate, you will become like all the other games, which will eventually lead to you losing your original customers. There are not too many companies that make sim shooters or anything representing reality. You should want to stay in that market and have goals of owning it. If you jump into the arcade market, you have a good chance of drowning because there is more competition in said market. Don’t forget who you are and why you became successful!

i agree but i also disagree.

their goal should not be to appease anyone. their foundational goal should be to stick to the identity the game was conceived upon. that of a zombie survival simulator. because that IS what dayz's identity is. 

it shouldnt matter old customers or new customers what matters is having INTEGRITY to the games IDENTITY and what IT IS. not trying to destroy it and make it something it IS NOT for the sake of attracting more players. much like what is happening to literally every other IP out there IE ghost recon, battlefield, fallout, rainbow six etc. trying to take old IP's and make them into something THEY ARE NOT for the sake of mass appeal.

this is disingenuous and lazy. if you want to have an open world "survival" SHOOTER game with zombie-esk things in it. then go make a new IP and do that. go ahead! dont take a game with an IDENTITY and bastardize it, destroy it and make it something it IS NOT just because you dont want to do that. thats just wrong. and in this case DEEPLY IRRATIONAL because dayz's value as a game and its initial IDENTITY is of IMMENSELY more value than that of a braindead shooter because of its SPIRITUAL VALUE. in that it creates an environment of surreal reality where it is possible to experience a DEEP sense of existence, of life, all while being in a zombie apocalypse. This is only possible when the game itself reflects reality. not the dumbed down shooter we have right now where kids are quickscoping eachother, shooting guns without recoil, no sway, running full sprint upstairs and zombies that dont even stop to eat you when you're uncon. @Kyiara

how am i to insert myself and believe this to be reality when the rules inside the world do not reflect it? how am i to treat the world and my actions in it as real if the world does not portray it? how am i to have deep thoughts and experiences when the game itself is not deep at all?

[WOLVERlNES 135]

On 11/20/2023 at 8:58 PM, lakevu said:

you concern is warranted but its source is misidentified.

dayz no longer desires to be a "realistic" game. you can see this to be proven in its mechanics of movement annddd its gunplay.


if a games mechanics cease to be realistic why would the ballistics follow suite?

you frustration lies not in ballistics but the very foundations of the game that dont make those ballistics congruent to the rest of the game.

why have realistic ballistics when the whole of the rest of the game is itself not realistic?


@Kyiara

It’s the most realistic game as far as handling weapons goes, ballistic trajectories, breath control, zeroing (no windage obviously)…why does DayZ no longer desire to be a “realistic” game?

Please elaborate on movement and gunplay as to why you’ve made that statement?

Edit: never mind you guys outlined the issues.

I hate arcade shooters like COD, being an Army veteran myself, I prefer realistic movements and gunplay.

I agree with OP’s thread concerns, in addition completely concur with what @Sean_87__ stated above.

Edited December 13, 2023 by WOLVERlNES

[lakevu 98]

3 hours ago, WOLVERlNES said:

It’s the most realistic game as far as handling weapons goes, ballistic trajectories, breath control, zeroing (no windage obviously)…why does DayZ no longer desire to be a “realistic” game?

Please elaborate on movement and gunplay as to why you’ve made that statement?

Edit: never mind you guys outlined the issues.

I hate arcade shooters like COD, being an Army veteran myself, I prefer realistic movements and gunplay.

I agree with OP’s thread concerns, in addition completely concur with what @Sean_87__ stated above.

theres nothing INHERENTLY wrong with arcade shooters perse. but what is wrong is when you take a game with an IDENTITY of REALISM and SIMULATION and force it to be an arcade shooter.

and if i was to make one point. one grand observation to make it eternally obvious this is the case. just look at how you gun acts when aiming down sights. the gun is LOCKED to the center of your screen. completely eliminating the realistic aspect of having arms and having to fight recoil and experience it like it is in real life. is a gun locked to the center of your vision in real life? or does it float in front of you because you have arms?

naturally this decision was made to cater and appease console because to not have that while playing with a controller pretty much completely destroys any ability to even play the game to an enjoyable level since you have very low ability to have FINE control with a joystick.

[lemmac 101]

In real life people would be far less likely to just shoot another survivor... they'd group together and use the ammo instead to clear out the infected, because in real life the infected wouldn't respawn either 😉

If you need aiming to be harder just play with a gamepad lol

[WOLVERlNES 135]

6 hours ago, lemmac said:

In real life people would be far less likely to just shoot another survivor... they'd group together and use the ammo instead to clear out the infected,

I dunno, I think true human nature shines true in this game. Some people are friendly, but majority are KOS for the sake of self-preservation. 

[WOLVERlNES 135]

8 hours ago, lakevu said:

theres nothing INHERENTLY wrong with arcade shooters perse. but what is wrong is when you take a game with an IDENTITY of REALISM and SIMULATION and force it to be an arcade shooter.

and if i was to make one point. one grand observation to make it eternally obvious this is the case. just look at how you gun acts when aiming down sights. the gun is LOCKED to the center of your screen. completely eliminating the realistic aspect of having arms and having to fight recoil and experience it like it is in real life. is a gun locked to the center of your vision in real life? or does it float in front of you because you have arms?

naturally this decision was made to cater and appease console because to not have that while playing with a controller pretty much completely destroys any ability to even play the game to an enjoyable level since you have very low ability to have FINE control with a joystick.

That’s because in this or any other game, players don’t have to actually learn proper cheek to stock weld and form a good sight picture. It doesn’t make any sense to have that in a game.

I remember how stoked I was just to be able to ADS in early shooters like Medal of Honor and America’s Army on PC. Prior to those everything shot from the hip.

DayZ and other shooters, even arcade shooters,  try to simulate recoil with controller vibrations and visual weapon kick, which reduces accuracy.

Your weapons don’t float in DayZ. If you play in first person and look down you can see parts of your arms and hands holding firearms. And when you ADS, you can see primary hand.

[lakevu 98]

20 minutes ago, WOLVERlNES said:

That’s because in this or any other game, players don’t have to actually learn proper cheek to stock weld and form a good sight picture. It doesn’t make any sense to have that in a game.

I remember how stoked I was just to be able to ADS in early shooters like Medal of Honor and America’s Army on PC. Prior to those everything shot from the hip.

DayZ and other shooters, even arcade shooters,  try to simulate recoil with controller vibrations and visual weapon kick, which reduces accuracy.

Your weapons don’t float in DayZ. If you play in first person and look down you can see parts of your arms and hands holding firearms. And when you ADS, you can see primary hand.

i understand but this is NOT HOW THE GAME WAS. arma 2, 3 and even dayz .62 did this. 

IT HAS BEEN DONE BEFORE. and if you havent experienced this actual sense of realism to shooting a gun in game i must tell you to play one of those games immediately to know what it feels like because it is life altering how it changes your perspective on how the game SHOULD be

[WOLVERlNES 135]

I’ve never played ARMA, play DayZ on Xbox SeriesX. I stopped PC gaming along time ago.

Moreover, I was anticipating DayZ’s console release when it was first announced.

How does ARMA Reforger’s gunplay feel?

[lakevu 98]

9 hours ago, WOLVERlNES said:

I’ve never played ARMA, play DayZ on Xbox SeriesX. I stopped PC gaming along time ago.

Moreover, I was anticipating DayZ’s console release when it was first announced.

How does ARMA Reforger’s gunplay feel?

i dont own reforger so i havent played it but from every video ive seen it is the same dumbed down mechanics that are in the standalone now. a very VERY farcry away from the realism in arma 2 or 3. 

which is sad to see as it spells the tale of arma following the same trend of babyfication that dayz has gone down to dumb the game down to people with short attention spans and even shorter intelligences

[lakevu 98]

23 hours ago, lemmac said:

In real life people would be far less likely to just shoot another survivor... they'd group together and use the ammo instead to clear out the infected, because in real life the infected wouldn't respawn either 😉

If you need aiming to be harder just play with a gamepad lol

i dont just want it to be "HARDER" for the sake of being harder. i want it to be REAL. real so i can insert myself in the game as if it were existence itself. and how can i do that when every gun is basically a lazer beam? how does that make me feel when i do it? like a baby.

Edited December 14, 2023 by lakevu

[RZ0R 65]

I'm a chef. I'm disappointed in DayZ because of its unrealistic cooking and nutrition mechanics.  

Any proctologists out there?

[lakevu 98]

10 hours ago, RZ0R said:

I'm a chef. I'm disappointed in DayZ because of its unrealistic cooking and nutrition mechanics.  

Any proctologists out there?

the difference between your example here and the one we are making of gunplay mechanics is that. GUNPLAY MECHANICS. are fundamentally more important than cooking mechanics in the effects it has on our overall interpretation and experience of the game. as gun combat is at the heart of dayz's experience it is vitally more important that this be addressed and correct than that of food and cooking mechanics.

and it is IMPORTANT because the TYPE of combat you have is the difference between being fortnite and being an AUTHENTIC zombie survival simulator. 

in the hierarchy of values within the game cooking is much lower than combat

[RZ0R 65]

1 minute ago, lakevu said:

the difference between your example here and the one we are making of gunplay mechanics is that. GUNPLAY MECHANICS. are fundamentally more important than cooking mechanics in the effects it has on our overall interpretation and experience of the game. as gun combat is at the heart of dayz's experience it is vitally more important that this be addressed and correct than that of food and cooking mechanics.

and it is IMPORTANT because the TYPE of combat you have is the difference between being fortnite and being an AUTHENTIC zombie survival simulator. 

in the hierarchy of values within the game cooking is much lower than combat

If you don't eat, you won't survive long enough to do any shooting.

A spokesperson for game just said it's not a simulator.

[lakevu 98]

1 hour ago, RZ0R said:

If you don't eat, you won't survive long enough to do any shooting.

A spokesperson for game just said it's not a simulator.

while this is true that does not elevate eating as a prime driver of why people play the game. nor does it make it the most important simply because you need to do it to continue to play the game. I'm not saying it cant be but the most EMOTIONALLY IMPACTFUL parts of the game is when you INTERACT with other players. Good people. Bad people. where that be bullets or just words. RUNNING INTO OTHER SURVIVORS and how you resolve that occurrence is at if not at THE TOP of the value hierarchy of the game. as it is the most exciting and EMOTIONALLY INCITING part of the game.

there are very few people who log into dayz to pick up food and just eat it and avoid all the other aspects of what the game has to offer in EXPERIENCING an apocalypse.  

I'm not saying eating food cant be an enjoyable part of the experience. like surviving almost starving and then cooking a meal in the forest in the dark while wolves howling nearby. but IT WILL NEVER be more IMPORTANT than player interaction especially the gunfights with other people as you come close to death by another player. and even more if you happen to lose a friend during that encounter aswell.

that is what DRIVES the game. and is why ballistics and everything associated to gunplay are OBJECTIVELY more important than other aspects like cooking within the game. ballistics determine how we experience gunfights. as either one hit kill dumbness or long drawn out rewarding experiences because we survive a few rounds.