Chernarus must evolve

[Asmondian 372]

 

The comments asking for a new DayZ official map have become more and more frequent in recent years, mostly among console players who do not have the opportunity to enjoy what community maps have offered since their emergence thanks to modding. While I would also love to have something different from Livonia or Chernarus with the same - official development - quality standard, what most of people don't seem to notice is that the problem (if there really is one) is not about the map itself, but about an outdated concept that fails to take full advantage of the impact the map could have on gameplay. They both need to evolve towards a new paradigm, to the true potential that the game has shown (through some community maps) it can offer in this regard. Both Chernarus and Livonia have lagged a bit behind the expectations players now have as a result of their experiences on community maps (especially after playing Namalsk). The, to conceive the idea of a new official map without first understanding what is currently missing (or not fully capitalized) would be a waste of time and resources.

 

l. Introduction | General concepts

Just to lay the groundwork and provide some general information for anyone reading this post (new players, regulars or even outsiders), lets start by saying that DayZ Standalone currently has two official maps that both PC and Console players can enjoy: the mythical and historical Chernarus (225 km2) and the more recent Livonia (163 km2), which is a paid DLC. While Chernarus is an extremely well made in many ways and definetly the most popular one, Livonia still has some critical points regarding its general distribution and main points of interest. But a map its not only a beautiful and innocuous landscape where the player is deposited to "create his own experience". Along with each official terrain, there are other elements that determine to a large extent the gaming experience the player will have over there. Every map, through its points of interest, pve threats, distances and others, conditions the game experience and creates, promotes or discourages certain proposed endgames that are already part of the game. This is determined by the topographical features of the map (terrain) +  its mission (name given to the folder where all these configurations of the map are located) + the narrative (the history of the map and its relationship with our character). All this prevents a map from being just a piece of land and became a living enviroment.

In recent times, it is common to read comments asking for the creation of a new official map for DayZ. Many players have become bored with Chernarus and others have not yet managed to fall in love with Livonia. But even though I believe no one would object to the development of a new map, the proposal would be to analyze the reasons why Chernarus has lost some of its charm and how some community maps (especially Namalsk, community made map) have probably shown a way to move forward. 

Side note: While Console players can only play these two official maps (Chernarus/Livonia), PC players can try tons of new community made maps thanks to modding support (or even variations of the vanilla maps). 

 

ll. The Namalsk paradigm

What is Namalsk? Once again, trying to make this post 100% compressible for everyone, we will say that Namalsk is a DayZ community made map created by Adam (AKA Surmak, current leader of DayZ official development and “former” map designer for the game). Being over 2 years old still remains as probably the most popular community map ever made and its a constant demand from console players to be able to test it one day (dismissed by the dev team for now).

Why do I refer to Namalsk as a paradigm in terms of DayZ maps? I consider that Namalsk has shown us a how the map can be merged in a functional and determinant in a way that we had not seen with either with Chernarus or Livonia. In this sense, the map is not just a sandbox with more or less pre-defined points of interest and endgames, where there is progression is determined mainly by the transition between tiers (bad gear to better gear). There is something deeper going on in Namalsk. In this frozen piece of land, there is a narrative that can drive the gameplay while the absolute free gameplay remains intact. A reason for being there and a background story (lore) that is not only possible to know within the map itself (without having to resort to external sources) but that has the power to condition and direct a large part of the gameplay. The map then has a story, which may or may not be followed, but which explains and re-signifies to a large extent everything around us. Its history then takes on a different relevance than the simple presence of references to it with elements on the map or for the mere excitement of rolelpay-loving players.

In addition to the above, Namalsk innovates in game features making the map an unique experience in many ways. The absolute darkness, the cold as a permanent pve threat, a more dynamic and less conservative gameplay style as a consequence of its size, the clothing as a real element of survival, the presence of structures that can only be found there, a global dynamic event that that challenges all players equally and invites them to join the narrative. There is more in Namalsk than just an icy terrain. This new “standard” o paradigm proposed by Namalsk with its narrative has reformulated the expectations that every player has regarding the maps in DayZ and its influence was evident in the successive community maps that were absorbing part of this new paradigm. Banov, Deer Isle, Istek… among others, are clear examples of this.

We can therefore say that there are four things that are part of this new standard of maps that can maximize its potential: A) Its uniqueness B) Lore and narrative C) Endgame/goal D) Defined and meaningfull POI´s (points of interest). Lets now see if any of these 4 elements are fully present in Chernarus or Livonia.

Am I asking for Namalsk features in Chernarus? Absolutely not. Namalsk is unique and Chernarus should be too. What I am referring to is the way in which Namalsk and its narrative enhance the gameplay by offering endgames other than mere loot progression. Namalsk is not just about throwing us onto a frozen island and telling us to "survive". That's the basic expectation of DayZ on any map no matter how good or bad it is. In this case, the map offers a raison d'etre and a progressive objective that lets us know its full potential. Then if someone doesn't want to follow it the map is still perfectly functional and entertaining.

 

lll. Chernarus and Livonia comparison:

A) Uniqueness:

As I described above, the fact that a map has unique features enhances it as a product (like in any other market) and endows it with interest and depth. While Namalsk meets this condition (Underground location, total darkness, more clothing, cold as a permanente PVE threat, frostbite, frozen food, medium size map, new assets, dynamic global event…), in my opinión Chernarus and Livonia are still far from it. Of course this is not the fairest comparison of all considering that we are comparing a community made map (Namalsk) that can segment its audience in an almost arbitrarily way, with maps that aim to fulfill the vanilla experience where the full spectrum of the game can take place for the greatest number of players. However, I would question this last argument because with the addition of the Livonia underground bunker, a new feature and appeal of the game has produce autonomy and uniqueness to Livonia in this regard, and thats why the Devs have not yet been very enthusiastic about bringing it to Chernarus.

Because apart from that (underground bunker), the playstyle on Livonia or Chernarus its in essence very similar, not to say the same. Both do not escape from the usual rhythm of the tier progression concept. There is no other pve threat that the usual ones. The number of interactions is not significantly higher or lower. Progress times (after the map is known by the player) are extremely similar. Both maps propose the same style but with a different “flavor” (the landscape) without any unique feature. Nostalgia and fanaticism aside, there is nothing in Chernarus or Livonia that makes them absolutely unique as a gameplay proposal (I hope you guys understand what I mean, clearly Chernarus is unique in many ways. I am referring strictly to the playstyle proposal).

 

B) Lore and narrative:

It would be completely unfair if I did not say that the current DayZ Dev team is probably the one that did the most in the history of the game in relation to its lore. That its something that should be pointed out and appreciated. No one who has followed the development since the days of Dean Hall can say otherwise. But historically, the game has always neglected this element (lore/narrative), relativizing its importance for the actual gameplay. Apart from the assets around the map that are not always quite representative the know DayZ lore (I am one of those who believe that Chernarus looks too "sterile" for a global apocalypse and that when one tries to know where we are in the apocalypse, we can think that we are the next day as years and years after the outbreak), neither Chernarus nor Livonia have a narrative of their own or ways to delve into its history directly within the barriers of the map itself. Once again, numerous changes have been made in this regard in 2022 with static toxic zones, air strikes, military convoys, this sort of multiple "spin-offs" from the main story... but both maps still suffer from an absolute lack of context and representativeness in my opinion.

Namalsk has shown us that a Lore for the map is not only “flavor” but that it can play a key role in providing in-game objectives, gathering players, re-signifying points of interest, giving atmosphere and depth to a map. Both Chernarus and Livonia, at least for the moment, have failed to capitalize the on-going narrative as an actual part of the gameplay experience.

I am asking for the creation of an expanded and elaborated lore in DayZ? Of course not. We don't need it. The Lore to a large extent is already built and I know that the mystery is in turn a large part of it. What I am saying is that, in the case of adding elements, areas or features to the map, these should have a closer link to the map's narrative to enrich them. Otherwise, their attraction will continue to be almost exclusively in the loot that we can find in them. And where possible, these elements should be part of a larger objective and with possible impact on other players as well. That is the concept that Namalsk brought as a novelty.

 

C) An Endgame / Goal:

Yes, I'm aware that DayZ, as a sandbox survival game, doesn't need any “endgame” and that you should create your own story under the premise of spawn, survive, die and repeat. I fully agree with this. But let's clarify two things: 1) When we speak of an endgame in the terms proposed in this new paradigm, we are not talking about a linear final objective, but a circular or loop type one, complementary to free will. And 2) It is impossible to deny that any map, with its terrain, mission files, features, points of interest, distribution, pve threats, size and narrative, at some point conditions the player towards a particular style, even with a vanilla configuration. In this sense, the gameplay style that I particulary feel as a vanilla hardcore kind of player while plaing on official Chernarus/Livonia servers is definitely not the best I have experienced in all these years. The endgame seems to have become an extremely flat one that consists of an absolutely conservative style (with almost no interaction), where the priority is to gather the necessary toos to build a base, reinforce it, accumulate supplies and go out to search/raid other bases to go back to accumulate the loot obtained.

But leaving aside the impact of basebuilding on the game (where at some point we will have to vindicate people like Smoke, Mandibull, Sanguine, Spaggie, Rene and others guys who saw before many the negative impact that this – basebuilding focused gameplay - would have on the original concept of the game), I believe this happens because neither Chernarus nor Livonia have a parallel global objective that the player who wants a more dynamic experience can enjoy. One may think that Chernarus tried this approach with the presence of static toxic zones, giving a solid goal of getting the full NBC to acces those, or Livonia did it recently with the underground bunker. But in neither case is the objective linked to the narrative, making them merely a "demonstration" of a new cool feature whose interest is usually exhausted when first experienced. I appeal to everyone's honesty (mainly veterans) to tell me how many times they've done the goal of collecting the full NBC suit or accessing the Livonia Bunker? Is the experience so enriching and rewarding to do it over and over again or to do it with a new partner? In my case the answer is no. And the reason for this is that none of the four conditions we are describing can stand on its own. They need to be connected.

Does dayz need an endgame? It already has one, whether you want it or not. Every game has an endgame understood as objectives within the freedom of decision, even if we are talking about MMO´s. These can be determined by strong points of interest, by the mere transition between tiers or by the experimentation of a new feature (underground bunker in Livonia for example). Iimagine if at some point an helicopter is added to the map. Getting the parts and accessing it will became an endgame of its own, and this does not means that its crushing the idea of "create your own story". What this objective/goal/endgame never has to be is a conditioner of the absolutely free gameplay (becoming aboslutely linear as in a singleplayer game). But the presence of mission/s in line with its narrative has proven to be an excellent way to enhance the game experience in relation to the map, and I believe today that Chernarus has almost none that if its not strictly linked to the loot and tier progression.

 

D) Defined and meaningfull POI´s (Points of interest):

Im probably a Namalsk fanboy by now but I must say that point of interest or location there has a reason for being that is linked to the narrative, its lore and the tier progression. On the contrary, in both Livonia and Chernarus the only element that determines a point of interest is usually the loot that we will find there and the transition between tiers. In the absence of any real lore or narrative, the POIs are only relevant in terms of gear or encounters probability. And this is not necessarily a bad thing, because the game has followed this concept for many, many years successfully. We all learned to move around Chernarus from north to south, or east to northwest, following points of interest largely determined by the gear we would get or the likelihood of players encounters/interactions. However, and here I will concentrate particularly on Chernarus, the former concurrence and relevance that certain points of interest had on the map have suffered modifications that have diminished their relevance for the player (Even with the loot reason/motivation is still present in them). The case of NWAF I think is one that any veteran DayZ player can notice and I was happy to learn that the Devs will focus this year on modifying it. In any other map, the loss of value (for different reasons) of a point of historical interest would not condition the gameplay too much because it could be moved to another one or simply atomize the movement around the map. But on maps of this size and with 60 players, the lack of references or solid points of interest brings with it a lack of encounters and interactions, elements that are the raw material of DayZ in terms of its gameplay.

But going back to the original promise of this post, I don't think the NWAF has declined as a hotspot or organic POI of Chernarus just because it has modified its internal distribution and pvp is now less frequent or attractive. The NWAF and Tisy are paradigmatic cases to show how the lack of an ulterior narrative or objective - different than just a loot quest - is necessary to provide continued life and raison d'etre to a POIs. Clearly many of the changes sought a noble higher interest, such as the balanced distribution across the map and the idea of a less "linear" gameplay. But without that organic linearity that the old Chernarus had and in the absence of reasons to visit the POIs, the map gets smaller and the fundamental element of DayZ (the interaction with good or bad intentions) becomes infrequent, ergo, the game loses quality.

In few words: It is quite possible that the Devs will re-invent some points of interest in Chernarus. The NWAF case has been perhaps the most publicly announced and the presence of people like DOJ (who has already modified parts of the map in previous patches) adds to the general hope. My reasoning is that, taking advantage of that, it is not only an aesthetic change and / or in order to encourage their visit exclusively from the loot, but consider incorporating elements of the narrative of the map and, if possible, part of a general objective to create (perhaps linked to air strikes, static toxic zones, etc.).

 

lV. Conclusion (TLDR):

The requests for a new official map do not delve into the reasons why Chernarus has lost much of its charm. The old linearity and organic popularity generated in the classic points of interest, today has been lost as a consequence of some modifications on it and the map works more as a mere "sandbox" than as an element with real incidence in the gameplay. Namalsk has shown a way forward in terms of what a map can and should represent for the DayZ gaming experience. This implies that it is not just limited to a terrain and a base configuration, the map should also provide with uniqueness and a narrativet hat explains, gives meaning to and re-signifies the points of interest and ambience.Subsidiarily, this narrative must provide a circular and voluntary endgame (not linear or associated exclusively with loot) that allows gamplay to be directed in conjunction with the natural progression between tiers.

Chernarus and Livonia currently lack this (or at least they have not taken advantage of it), and the alternatives that have been proposed in order to approach these features (underground bunker, static toxic zone, etc.) were not very functional because they were made in the absence of a narrative and without a raison d'être independent of the mere progression of loot. The location of the static toxic zones makes them a transitional and unattractive target, with no real relevance or incentives for their realization. For its part, the underground bunker of Livonia has no narrative or circularity for the gameplay, so that once the curiosity to visit it is satisfied, this objective is exhausted.

Both Chernarus and Livonia must evolve according to the standard projected by Namalsk and under the features we tried to describe above. The idea of a lore with real impact on the gameplay and predominant reflection in the map's environment must be rethought. An organic mission should be developed, possibly linked to air strikes, toxic zones and possibly with a resignification of the NWAF or, failing that, Tisy. There are many details to explore and I do have many proposals in this direction, but in this first post I just wanted to see if I'm the only one who feels the same way about Chernarus and Livonia.

Thanks for reading.

 

Edited January 24, 2023 by Asmondian

[nemorus 257]

The game could use some new background but the idea is already in. Still Chernarus. All we know is one of its backwater regions - farming and tourist oriented South Zagoria. Modders didn't even tried to tackle other parts of the country when that would be rather easy, considering SZ experiences and political map officially available. Rather than that they're creating silly maps like "Barrington". With the same lame architecture and linear climate. There's a reason why games such as "Jagged Alliance 2" were an adventure worth taking. Hills, forests, plains, swamps, deserts, jungle, industrial, underground and snowy moutains... Everything neatly in place and because of that game was pleasing to the eye and more strategic. I'm not saying "Rust/7DtD is a way to go" - but some of their features are. Like marshlands of "Deer Island" map. It was so different! Such a nice alternative for constant plain fields or clean logging forests...

People could also create an alternative for South Zagoria itself. Simply because default one is not "extremely well made(...)" at all. On the contrary: it's terribly made and outdated. Same copy-pasted buildings everywhere with same screwed-in decorations within are the least of a problem. Towns are generally ugly with cutted corners visible with each step. Three random shots to give an idea.

Terrible transitions are visible everywhere on a map; Lackluster assets & poor execution.

Outside of towns people meet with nature... You've all seen "rivers" in Zagoria. What kind of tool was used to create those? One can only guess after seeing things like this:

and my favourite one:

Rivers without riverbanks, full of grey water, with rippled reflections of nothing, because sky is still in its "optimal" setting after devs decided that clouds and alike are too buggy to be in. Sorry but i just can't understand 'how', and after all these years...

ps. about the question... There really is no reason to venture into the gas or secret bunker besides curiosity. In vanilla it means more gear like weapons and armor. Too bad it won't help against cheaters.

 

[Sauwercraud 13]

I agree a lot with your assessment.
One thing which could work favorably would be the introduction of a new Tier Zone.
For example you can find High Tier Weapons only in Tisy, but the Magazines only at the NWAF. Livionia is suffering with only 3 Tier Zones, compared to the 4 of Chernarus.
It does not need to be as ridiculous as the 17 Tier Zones on DeerIsle, but 5 Tiers would be kinda great, to keep People looting and running through the Map.
After a certain point, most Players just keep Raiding Bases (if Base Building is enabled) but are otherwise static.

While I might differ from other Players and like to come back and explore, some Players reach a point, where they move on - since everything they wanted, they have achieved on a Server.
But in General, BI has a huge backlog on Maps from Arma. I really think they will need to release a new Vanilla Map. Namalsk would be great, but the Console Port seems difficult.
Most Players would be fine with a paid DLC Map again.

Namalsk observations on my Part (as Server Hoster) - Most Players never make it to the "End" Game. In over six Months, only 4 Players made it to Lantia.
Namalsk works only well on a full pop Server for PvP, the Lantia Loot is not a great Incentive to go back there again either.

[hippoz 0]

I been playing around with the code in syberia mod. It's pretty good if you tone down some things. Far as Charnarus, burned out on it. My gf loves the map though and she still plays there even though it's low pop. I'm making a summer Charnarus with all the goodies for her, but I'm also burned out on all the other maps too. Namalsk is fun, had the suit and the lore is great. Spent days in Lantia logging in and out with a bunch of food looking for the guass. Asshole admin obviously took it out but he was running around with one at candycane. I ended up adding more bullets to the mag and the guass in my server hits for 200,000 health now. Set the barrel to overheat and smoke after 1 shot for the effect. Server modding is addicting.

 

That bridge with all the circles @nemorus Man that brings back some memories. I haven't tried Barrington. It's probably a shitshow though. Deer Isle, done all that too but John did an great job on it imo. He must have sat down with a big bowl of crack one night that's insane. The last time I ran through the temple there, you get a virus and get teleported. Some imagination he has. The map I really didn't get into much was Eden. Banov had some good points to it even before the flower faces were put in. Namalsk still is the best pvp map.

[Parazight 1599]

Lore isn’t that important. Would rather have the net code and other exploits fixed. 
 

If the game would work properly, then there wouldn’t be a need to enhance player experiences. 
 

I don’t think adding or improving maps is the right approach to generating more revenue. 

[discipled 63]

I agree with asmondias as well as parazight... Mind you my computer is crap, but I have had Dayz since Feb of 2014 and logged more hours than any other game. It needs a soft goal... Not a clear objective but an end in sight and an ever evolving map some how. The seasonal events are great steps toward this. How about texture changes for times of year or something? Discoverable story that flows through Chernarus and makes an interesting quest, that changes throughout the year? Idk. But we don't need more guns, we need enrichment and optimization.

[Asmondian 372]

@nemorus | I think you are being a bit reductionist and oversimplifying what really is involved in creating a DayZ map or any other feature. I can't agree with your analysis, neither about Chernarus quialty nor about new community maps like Barrington. The complexity of a map probably lies in many, many more places other than just its terrain or landscape and I think your do not note that. It is hard for me to engage in a dialogue without this being put on the table.

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@Sauwercraud | Hey dude. Yes, there definitely needs to be an "extra step/reason" in the progression that justifies visiting certain places. But I don't know if the tier factor will be enough because it has already been implemented in some way (With the exclusivity of certain weapons/gear in the static toxic zones, that somehow works as a new tier). That's why I'm so keen on the idea of a complementary narrative to signify the points of interest along with a tier progression (either from the loot, the lore/contexto or through a new feature with a great appeal like in Namalsk). The important thing is that, as you say, it does not reach the point of "exhausting" the gameplay in any way and can be a transitional and experience-enhancing objective. Probably the location of the toxic zones at south aimed at this idea of going deep in the map and then coming back, but in my experience, I question if it really fulfilled that goal.

I would love a new official vanilla map and BI clearly has alternatives in their backlog. Tanoa is a map that has been optimized for the testing the new engine for example (although without boats I see it as a very difficult fit for DayZ). However, with the current development team approach (and size), the time it would take and how it would eventually fragment the official/vanilla audience further may not be a good idea. It could only respond more to a comercial reason than a gameplay one (paid DLC), so I don't see it as a smart decision.

Regarding Namalsk, the good thing about it its "endgame", regardless of whether or not it is "finished", is that it affects the dynamics of the game at a whole and allows you to explore new features that otherwise you probably wouldn't (the absolute darkness if A2, the dynamic of gathering elements to activate something in some part of the map and that has an impact on the rest of the players, the cold as a threat, etc.), that's the most important thing. One can repeat the Lantia experience several times because of this and the fact that it is complex makes it even better. The loot is not the big incentive (at least on servers without the ER7 RFW como los 100% vanilla), but to complete the narrative is, and that's precisely what I'm aiming at. I think Namalsk can feel alive in any server with +15 players on it (in my experience).

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@Parazight | Clearly anyone would prefer to fix the game's most glaring problems, but that doesn't preclude discussing an idea or concept. I think the old phrase "stop adding content and fix the bugs" has been largely superseded when you learn how a development team works and is structured. We/they must always look for ways to enchance the player's experience and the ydo, because this has been the criteria for almost 10 years. Otherwise, we would still have the same features since Dean Hall, but without bugs, and the game would have died many, many years ago. So I can´t really understand the reasoning. A new map with a paid DLC format could well generate new revenue, but as I said in the post and comments, I don't think it's the smartest way to go. Improving the map or several points of interest is a goal already set for this year, and the recent addition of guys like DOJ gives me the impression that it is an aspect that interests the development team.

Thanks for the feedback

Edited January 23, 2023 by Asmondian

[Parazight 1599]

1 hour ago, Asmondian said:

ing content and fix the bugs" has been largely superseded when you learn how a development team works and is structured. We

Most development structures dedicate more than one month to beta. 
 

there is no dev team. It’s two people now.  And the map maker retired, dude.

 

further, discuss this all you want. No issue with that at all. Please don’t say that I’ve objected to your desire for discussion and fancy text, however.  

Edited January 23, 2023 by Parazight

[nemorus 257]

There really is not much to discuss about though. For me its just another way to display what's wrong with what's already here. Personally, i don't need any fancy lore from this game at all. It's not "Skyrim". All i need here is camaraderie and a bit of time. If this sandbox was not so shabby quality wise, then people would be more interested in spending their time together. Right now though there are annoying bugs, cutted corners and cheating issues still not resolved. Players with experience will not be taking such ride again even if it means being bored to death. I know - none of mine colleagues want to touch "DayZ" anymore and for good reason. There is simply not enough changing around - changing for the better.

Oh, and about this complexity of work... Desire, resources and a need - these things are required for creation process. In this particular situation desire is linked with being paid, the need with having a job and resources came with it, especially after 10 years of doing it. It's not a charity. If Livonia could be polished then Zagoria is not any different. I truly believe it's very doable. In mine line of work if i would sell half-baked product then i would also starve. People would be ruthless with me; Calling that half-baked product names and me as well. How is it that entertainment business is different and so forgiving?...

[THEGordonFreeman 664]

3 hours ago, Parazight said:

Most development structures dedicate more than one month to beta. 

HOLY $#!+  That is comment of the effing year.  Truer words have rarely been spoken around here.

[Parazight 1599]

5 hours ago, nemorus said:

All i need here is camaraderie and a bit of time.

Exactly!  This is why lore isn't important.  It's just a sandbox.  The original vision was based on people interactions.  Personally, I pick the servers I play on based on who I'm playing with, not lore.  The people I play with, like my kids, don't care about lore.  It's always been about hanging out with friends in discord or meeting randoms.  Who you are with, not where you are.  Back in the day, before cheaters were rampant, it was about meeting people from around the world at the Solnichny coastline. 

Years after full release and now create backstory?  Seems fake.

This is DayZ.  This is your story.  It says so right on the front page.

[Parazight 1599]

On 1/21/2023 at 9:51 PM, Asmondian said:

I appeal to everyone's honesty (mainly veterans) to tell me how many times they've done the goal of collecting the full NBC suit or accessing the Livonia Bunker? Is the experience so enriching and rewarding to do it over and over again or to do it with a new partner? In my case the answer is no. And the reason for this is that none of the four conditions we are describing can stand on its own.

I wanted to highlight what I thought was the most important part of the original post and actually comment on that.

DayZ can't stand on its own.  Mods, communities, and active admins is why the game works.  There are plenty of options to keep the game interesting.  You should know how important mods are.  Having unlimited metagames, mods, and choices is what  keeps the endgame interesting and active.  The other three points of yours that aren't about endgame seem rather trivial and subjective to me.

I think both maps could use some improvements, as needed, when technical issues arrive.  Polish up certain areas.  But let's not change the narrative here.  Honestly, it sounds like you're bored.  Break out of your own paradigm.  Maybe take a break.

 

[lemmac 101]

Credit for effort but i feel like i just ate a word salad. Initially tasty but overmixed, blandly repetitive and ultimately quite unsatisfying. Next time give me the meat, and give it to me raw.

[Asmondian 372]

1 hour ago, lemmac said:

Credit for effort but i feel like i just ate a word salad. Initially tasty but overmixed, blandly repetitive and ultimately quite unsatisfying. Next time give me the meat, and give it to me raw.

It became very difficult to put in words the main idea of the post without giving concrete examples or suggestions of what is intended for Chernarus and Livonia from my point of view. But if I did, citing examples of endgame or how the lore could have transcendence in the gameplay and so on, anyone reading it would probably focus on these (or suggest others) instead of discussing the diagnosis. Already many have not interpreted well what I mean by a lore/narrative added to Chernarus/Livonia, thinking as if it were a mere element of rolelpay, and I am probably partly to blame for not expressing it clearly. (English is not my first language). I will try to edit some phrases of the post to try to make it clearer. Thank you!

[lemmac 101]

Yeah there does need to be more to the game beyond a certain point. I like the idea of the linear progression paths we see on some modded maps but as you say they quickly become stale too.

Some kind of spawning environmental events better realised than the current random gas zones would be a start. Even they could be vastly improved by only requiring a gas mask rather than a full suit, especially considering the suits can't be worn over clothes as they are intended in real life. All these random gas zones do at the moment is force players out of somewhere rather than change up the gameplay within them. Seasonal changes on the same map would be really interesting, with having to change equipment and gameplay to suit. Well realised horde events could work too, whether to attack player bases that have reached a certain size/level of loot, flush players out, draw them together, drop rare loot or a mix of them all.

I could also imagine being able to get infected and experience a slow degradation to zombie (slow loss of vision and muscle control, enhanced hearing etc.) while racing against the clock to get to somewhere and cure yourself. Somewhere like the yellow medical tents with the beds and transfusion facilities. If you can't perform the transfusion in time or suicide then you might become a kind of uber zombie under player control that can cause a bit of extra mayhem until eventually put out of your misery by a human player. You might continually do a really loud zombie scream within a certain vicinity of human players so it can't be abused by squads having their own 'friendly' zombies 😉

Being able to craft everything you might need to survive 'off grid' in game would be great too. As far as i can see we're only missing clothes, water collection and ranged weapons to have that fully realised. That's an easy fix.

Edited January 24, 2023 by lemmac

[Kuzyn-704234ddb48d572a 3]

This is an interesting topic and I would like to leave my comment on this.

Firstly, reasons for changes

DayZ is strong right now, recently broke another online record. But the question is, how long it will last? I think that many old DayZ veterans are exhausted, Chernarus was revamped, enhanced - but in general it's the same map and game loop is the same. New players who don't exactly understand what DayZ is, are looking for some adventures, goals. Livonia with or without a bunker is a great addition, but not everyone is able to risk it by giving it a chance, after all its a paid expansion. I personally enjoy DayZ like it is now, but it would be great to have more opportunities.

Realistically, what changes are possible?

I guess everyone would like to see some super new cool mechanics implemented but I guess that's impossible for devs and their resources. There are still many things that need to be fixed or polished too.

But when I think about Chernarus and what could be added in a simple way, few things come to my mind:

• new types of zombies that will protect the highest military loot outside gas zones or other interesting locations,
• key cards/keys to certain locations, obtainable only through some events or from specific locations,
• combined of above, zombies that can be killed only with "something" from "somewhere",
• more wrecks, military outposts and general mess in bigger cities,
• more interactive events,
• unique vehicle?

I will try to explain every point.

New types of zombies

Basically I would like to see creatures that are more difficult to kill and that are more dangerous. Examples:

• zombie in military areas which mutated more from virus and now has ability to run faster and makes some scary noises,
• zombie which shine in dark like glowstick, they could have a chance to poison player on attack like food poisoning,
• zombies set to crawl on default, not only after breaking their legs,
• zombie that is super heavy and big, that can knock out a player with a hit, but is really slow.

Access items and locations

I would like to see some more "quest chains" let's say like the one with a bunker on Livonia. Maybe a locked room in a vessel near Rify with some exclusive spawn inside? Or nuclear shelters in the biggest cities like Elektrozavodsk, Chernogorsk, Novodmitrovsk and Severograd, with extra chance to spawn NBC suits, filters, some cans of good food. Or even a new item, like a water filter which allows you to drink directly from the river/pond?

Boss zombies

New boss zombies protecting some of areas mentioned above, could be killable only with specific ammo? And firstly, you need that ammo from gas zones, secondly, you need to find a key or keycard to access those special locations.

More wrecks etc.

I didn't have any problem with the map in general. But recently I played some RP server and it hit me how big atmosphere change with small adjustments on the map. There were car wrecks everywhere, lot of crashes, some ruined buildings, more scaffoldings than usual, more stories telled by environment objects. There were more camps inside big cities with abandoned tanks, barbed wires, tables, military tents. It actually represented the lore, that there was a war between communist party + Russian forces and Chernarus forces + UN and the outbreak results (piles of bodies etc). So I would love to see more of it in a base game.

More interactive events

So we've got some helicopters, military convoys, road accidents or gas bombing, but there could be a little more. Maybe little ships wrecks with basic items for lucky newbies or a zombie "horde" (realistically probably about 15-20?) that will emerge from some bodies pile? Also there could be some crashed planes near airfields that failed to land.

Unique vehicle

Taking everything above into account, there could be a special vehicle that is obtainable only by visiting special location or getting unique item etc. I know that we have a humvee right now, but it can be a returning vehicle like a bus, for large groups that would be able to solve "quest" and as a reward they would have a bigger vehicle to transport more people. Or quads/ATV. I know that devs already said that motorbikes and bicycles are unlikely to come, not in near future for sure due to some collision/map details that would make them unusable or frustrating to use. But quad/ATV with 4 wheels could be a nice addition for offroad driving.

 

Edited January 24, 2023 by Kuzyn-704234ddb48d572a

[Parazight 1599]

On 1/24/2023 at 6:50 AM, Asmondian said:

Already many have not interpreted well what I mean by a lore/narrative added to Chernarus/Livonia, thinking as if it were a mere element of rolelpay, and I am probably partly to blame for not expressing it clearly

I don’t find that to be true. Your post was well written and clear. But the idea was bad. We don’t need map changes. 

[Maercus 21]

In addition to agreeing 95% of what you said, I think that several aspects of the game can still be improved very easily. Let me explain below:

Chernarus has a bit of an uneven distribution of loot (in quantity and quality). The west side of the map is much better than the east side (more military bases, helicrash presence, better tier loot). This is not bad and we can understand it if we think that many players prefer a more "hardcore" path or with less amount of military weapons and even find fewer players.

However, within this different paths, I can think of several ways to improve the CEL for a more progressive, organic experience that encourages players to go all the way to the end of the map (Tisy, in the case of Chernarus)

 

1) improve the areaflags.map. for example, today at 4km/30 minutes from spawn (Zelenogorsk) we can already find large caliber assault rifles and helicrashes with night vision. Another example is that you can find the same loot in the far north of the NWAF as in Zelenogorsk (both T3 but 7km away).

2) hand in hand with the first suggestion, there has to be an improvement to the types.xml currently there are few motivations to reach out to Tisy. There is almost no special or relevant item to get to that area so far away and take the risk of entering there. More than the AK101, the NBC suit (which can also be obtained in many other points on the map) and some secondary accessory or extra ammunition.

3) Helicrash events (just to mention one of the dynamic events) are assigned a wide variety of very important firearms (LAR, SVD, AUG, M70, plus night vision). However, they can spawn in tier 2 or tier 3 zones. Similarly, we can find multiple Helicrash in a row near tier 4 zones and not find any of these things.

4) While I think the idea of static toxic zones is the best of the last two years of development, I think placing them close to player spawn zones is very counterproductive. - With a stash well hidden near the zones, a newly spawned player can always get high tier loot in a few minutes. - At the end of the day, experienced players know that it is not necessary to reach areas far away from the spawn or reach Tisy to get the suit (Cherno, Zeleno, Berezino and Krasno are enough to get what is necessary) and also the toxic zone static usually ensures a good loot for whoever gets there (M4, AKM, asval, VSS, supressors, extended magazines)

 

In conclusion, I think that as said before, players almost always tend to move in search of loot and achieve a more balanced experience that encourages them to take longer paths, lengthen the end game and take advantage of all the zones and events on the map. How?

1) Judiciously modifying the tier map.

2) Improving the CEL from the types (IMO, with a more "hardcore" orientation than the current one where sometimes we get full assault rifles within half an hour of starting to play and "end game" rifles after two or three hours, taking away the value that these items such as NV, M4, LAR had before...)

3) Balancing dynamic events.

4) Changing the location of the static toxic zones towards the last tier zone. If you read this far, thanks for doing it and I hope it will be of some use to whoever can apply it (devs and community)

 

[Parazight 1599]

I’d like to take this time to present evidence how the lore is unimportant to BI. 

Let’s consider the toxic bombings. So, the virus that causes a person to become infected has run its course. Those who are magically immune have survived it. Those who won’t have already turned. It’s clear whether or not someone will survive it by now. It is beyond human logic to assume that the virus hasn’t totally spread outside of chernarus. Real life has recently shown us that quarantining the population is worthless vs a pandemic. So where are these bombs coming from?  BI doesn’t know OR CARE. It’s just a mechanic that was put in because it seemed like it fit the game. Lore is merely an afterthought. It’s not important because it doesn’t add any value for the consumer. 
 

Bandit masks. Just another toy for griefers to play with.  If we’re lucky we’ll get some retconned lore to try and explain it. 
 

Lore is an afterthought. It’s just a silly way to make the product look shiny. 

[THEGordonFreeman 664]

As I recall, wasn't the marketing.... DayZ... it's YOUR story.

[Maningreen 2]

Here’s my thoughts on involving the gameplay of the dayz

More in game survival threats.

More AI game threats. 

AI survivors to attack players/ players to attack/rob. 

AI kill squads. 

AI soldiers with guns spawning at heli crashes or convoys, could act like wolves do to track and attack players across map. 

AI soldiers with guns could spawn with humves protecting it. 

bounty system could mean kill squads track player with most kills. 

AI Capture squads, if players are captured by Tasers or tranquilizing darts and not resuscitated by a player, they could be transported to a prison or bunker were you need to escape from or be rescued by players, (AI prison guards)

Easily built into the lore of game searching for someone, giving more reasons to hide or seek, 

Wild boars should attack if threaten, charging players causing low/medium health damage, cuts/leg break.

Moving toxic gas clouds/

Electrical storms requiring players to take cover in solid structures. 

Moving cloud could slowly move around the map,  partially or fully despawning  bases, moving players on and clean up map of old or large bases,

More craftable items, 

overcoats, bags, knife sheaths, gun holster from chest holster, 

Craft foods to give stamina boosts, strength boosts, 

I.e. wolf steaks, mushrooms, potato’s  cooked in pot of water makes wolf stew, pour into bottles, result, run for longer like epi-pen x 10

Chicken stew x2

Boar stew x3

Deer stew x6

Bear stew x8

Or different effects for each, run longer, jump high, hold breath longer, increased health/ strength against health damaged.

[lemmac 101]

And here i was thinking the military presence was all about protecting the general population ...

Boar and even deer attacking when cornered or injured would be fun. That happens in Scum and can be really intense. The occasional infected appearing dead but getting up behind your back and attacking would be good for the odd trouser soiling too.

[Crankgorilla 9]

They need to add more props and meshes to the game. New buildings to replace the old repetitive buildings. Have the current ones as placeholders then customize locations slowly with whatever they can think up. With the lighting effects in DayZ they could have a lot of fun with a few skeleton props and some blood meshes. They already have some to work with in the zombie and animal guts. I'd go with less focus on the guns, and more focus on exploration and surprises.

(Was just checking in to find out some other information, give this thread a bump on the way through) gg

[Parazight 1599]

Why is it that Asmondian threads always attract brand new users who have gigantic lists of suggestions?

You guys realize that the skeleton crew available isn’t going to ever finish the dozens of years of work these suggestions would take, right?

Why are your cronies posting here and not starting their own threads?

[THEGordonFreeman 664]

18 hours ago, lemmac said:

 The occasional infected appearing dead but getting up behind your back and attacking would be good for the odd trouser soiling too.

OK, of all the suggestions, ^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^ is probably the best one I have heard.  It might need new animations done, but is something that I believe would be doable in a decent amount of time and I am PISSED I did not think of this myself!