Experimental Update 1.12 (Changelog)

[GamerWarrior2000 43]

On 4/29/2021 at 12:40 PM, Tonyeh said:

There is no realism to DayZ full stop. We need to move away from this silly idea. We're talking about a game where you can fix a broken leg with a couple of sticks and be back running around in less than a day. Where military grade boots wear out in no time despite walking on grass. Where knives go from brand new to utterly destroyed in the space of a few hours because you cut a few bushes and a bit of bark.

Your examples don't really translate to realism in gunfights. All these things you name that lack realism are due to having an accelerated time cycle. Nobody has time to play a video game 24 hours a day so the time frame for various events like healing and item wear is sped up to accommodate. Whether or not enemies get dropped in 1 or 5 or 10 shots does not affect time required to play the game in a detrimental manner. If a bullet goes through your brain or heart or some vital organ, you should die or at least go unconscious. You should also be stunned by a bullet piercing through your body and causing impact force and damage. If you don't like this, then avoid getting into situations that get you shot. The fact is that stealth is the greatest weapon in DayZ and remaining hidden and ambushing others is the smartest strategy if you want to stay alive. We are playing an authentic survival game with mechanics that do their best to mimic a real apocalypse, not a Quake Live arcade shooter. Consider yourself very lucky if you get the chance to shoot back at someone who gets the jump on you.

Edited May 1, 2021 by GamerWarrior2000

[DefectiveWater 539]

1 hour ago, GamerWarrior2000 said:

You should also be stunned by a bullet piercing through your body and causing impact force and damage.

no.

That's all I'm gonna say. 1.12 stagger is bearable (only .308 and x54r), but it's pointless as of saying this since you always get uncon too.

1 hour ago, GamerWarrior2000 said:

If you don't like this, then avoid getting into situations that get you shot.

Why even play games?

1 hour ago, GamerWarrior2000 said:

not a Quake Live arcade shooter.

Ah yes, the dumb argument of EVERY "I WWANT REALISMSM" player, "iTs nOt aN *insert an arcade game* gAmE" so it can't have balanced PVP mechanics.

There is a massive difference in PVP gameplay between 1.11 DayZ and arcade shooters (feel, not which one is better), if you are comparing those 2 then IDK what to say to you, either you are blind or acting blind just for the sake of "muh realismsm".

Edited May 1, 2021 by DefectiveWater

[GamerWarrior2000 43]

DayZ is the kind of game that requires you to continuously stare death in the face. The faint of heart will try to water down its authenticity, but I know Bohemia is committed to delivering a true apocalyptic horror experience. This means second chances are rare. Its do or die. Drop your guard for even a second and your lack of vigilance will be punished accordingly. Watch your step, Mr. Water.

['AZAZEL' 110]

9 hours ago, GamerWarrior2000 said:

You should also be stunned by a bullet piercing through your body and causing impact force and damage.

But what is the determining factor here? If it's realism, then you should get stunned by almost every bullet pretty much ... at least the 9mm and all calibers above will pierce your body in real life. Hell, even the .22 cal can kill you if you get hit in the head properly. If we make every bullet stun you a little, why would I want to use a bolt action rifle when SG5-K / USG-45 and any weapon with a high fire rate is just better?

As much as I like realism, again, it would just throw any kind of weapon balancing out of the window. Don't think dayz is supposed to be a sim ... weapons need to be "gamified" simply because in real life, they all are lethal.

Edited May 1, 2021 by 'AZAZEL'

[Tonyeh 454]

10 hours ago, GamerWarrior2000 said:

All these things you name that lack realism are due to having an accelerated time cycle.

You think a hunting knife would go from brand new to ruined in a day? Or even a few days?

Edited May 1, 2021 by Tonyeh

[DefectiveWater 539]

49 minutes ago, Tonyeh said:

You think a hunting knife would go from brand new to ruined in a day? Or even a few days?

Which is explained by having an accelerated time cycle, I agree that wear in DayZ is waaay too fast. Literally a repairing simulator. I'm not asking for durability like IRL, but more than what we have now. Especially when it comes to gun wear... 100 rounds out of Pristine SKS get's it to worn, another 100 and it's damaged... like why? (I've been blasting zeds on 1.12 EXP and had like 500 rounds of x39 LOL)

But I still don't agree with him about staggering from every single shot. Flinching? Yes (camera spazzes out for a very brief moment when you get shot, but I think that already exists), but staggering? Massive NO.

2 hours ago, 'AZAZEL' said:

weapons need to be "gamified" simply because in real life, they all are lethal.

THIS.
Each gun needs to have it's purpose, and be balanced around that.

Biggest baddest guns like .308 and x54r one shot (and for some unknown reason x39 does too in 1.12, and 5.56 fired from a Scout, lol, wtf bohemia).
Intermediate cartridges have less damage but are typically found in guns that have higher rate of fire, less recoil, more common ammo (and shouldn't one shot, bohemia).
Pistol cartridges are pea shooters that have common ammo, low damage, easy recoil and are perfect for killing zeds due to their ammo being so common.

IRL each and every one of guns that we have in DayZ are very lethal, but that wouldn't be very fun and wouldn't offer variety (one shot category, two-three shot category, and pea shooters that are more varied).

You might like that, but a lot of people wouldn't like it.

DayZ has one cool balancing aspect that other games don't have and that is RARITY.
If a gun is supposed to be shit, like the CR-527, then it should be more common than the Mosin, not the other way around (it's literally easier to find Mosins than CR-527s). And yet, what they did in 1.12? They made CR-527 one shot till like 350 meters or so... Why not just make it more common?
 

Edited May 1, 2021 by DefectiveWater

[William Sternritter 449]

7 hours ago, DefectiveWater said:

Which is explained by having an accelerated time cycle, I agree that wear in DayZ is waaay too fast. Literally a repairing simulator. 

 

Attrition is the same on a 1x server. 

You want gamefication and subsequent infinite "balancing", this is it. DayZ has moved to this mode and now it will be different numbers every few patches. 

Don't like the numbers? Be vocal about it and they may ge changed. Do you like the numbers, well guess what? Someone else may not like them and they will get changed. Maybe devs decide to chase a trend and change the numbers. 

This is why the main selling point of this game was that it strived for realism. Guns are powerful, knives last long, bit of food can save you from death ... 

[William Sternritter 449]

19 hours ago, GamerWarrior2000 said:

Your examples don't really translate to realism in gunfights. All these things you name that lack realism are due to having an accelerated time cycle. Nobody has time to play a video game 24 hours a day so the time frame for various events like healing and item wear is sped up to accommodate. 

Time acceleration doesn't affect any of that, just how quickly a day passes. Healing, attrition and everything else is just the same. You don't need yo play 24/7 to enjoy realistic time lapse.  

DayZ certainly has a lot of gameification for the sake of convenience and that's fine when it still adheres to real rules. So a broken leg may heal unrealistically quick, even if it would take a full day, but you still can't walk on a broken leg, you need to put it in a splint and you need to wait for it to heal before you can run again.

[Tonyeh 454]

17 hours ago, DefectiveWater said:

Which is explained by having an accelerated time cycle

 

Accelerated time can't be used as an excuse/reason for such egregious wear and tear on certain items. Nor can it be used to explain away the fact that you can fix a broken leg in a matter of hours.

Even if we take the accelerated time into account such things are happening waaaay too fast. However, while in the case of knives and boots, it annoys me no end, for the broken leg aspect, I couldn't imagine too many players willing to put up with limping around the map for 20 hours.

But, in any case, this circles back to my earlier point....in that there is no realism in DayZ, even if people want to use "accelerated time" to excuse bizarre game mechanics implemented due to current balancing consensus that the devs have agreed upon. But DayZ is just one of those games where there will always be arguments about how certain mechanics are used. It just seems silly to me to be constantly banging on about "realism" in conjunction with it though.

In the end, although it's irritating to an extreme level to have to be constantly on the look out for new footwear and knives, for sure, it pales in comparison for my absolute hated of the "count_in" flags that screw up the games loot economy. Again, I'll say that that's one of the absolute worst mechanics I've seen put into the game. While that nonsense is part of the game, ever other issue seems somewhat trivial.

[EzyStriderPS4 191]

11 hours ago, William Sternritter said:

You don't need yo play 24/7 to enjoy realistic time lapse,

Actually, yes you do. Think about it...

In my opinion, it would be a very poor change. This is an option in a private server if you are so inclined.

The “time scale” is approximately 8:1. For every real world minute spent playing DayZ, 8 minutes of “game time” elapses, if you equate that to a 24-hour game clock.

@Tonyeh, I agree that shoe degradation is too quick. And it’s not an excuse to have ample leather sewing kits lying around.  In fact, it would be better to have longer lasting footwear and about half as many leather sewing kits. In some sadistic way, it could actually encourage travel around the map.

I would be fine if broken legs lasted 1 hour, 40 mins with splint, and you could sprain an ankle or knee or your back, which would decrease movement speed, but could be mitigated by pain killers (like codiene/morphine).

[William Sternritter 449]

22 minutes ago, EzyStriderPS4 said:

Actually, yes you do. Think about it...

In my opinion, it would be a very poor change. This is an option in a private server if you are so inclined.

The “time scale” is approximately 8:1. For every real world minute spent playing DayZ, 8 minutes of “game time” elapses, if you equate that to a 24-hour game clock.

 

I thought about it and more importantly I experienced it, accelerated time is annoying. There is enough official servers anyway, hardcore 1PP servers can run on 1x time and 3PP serves can all run on accelerated time. Official servers used to run on 1x time by the way. 

[drgullen 596]

17 minutes ago, William Sternritter said:

I thought about it and more importantly I experienced it, accelerated time is annoying

I agree, but unfortunately, I think most don't.  I've put up several servers since 1.0 but they all failed primarily I think for this reason.  I think most people want to experience the entire day/night cycle in one playing session.  I'm on the west coast of the US and my server's time was synced to real time, so for example, if you could only play on it during the week after work, you'd always be playing in sunset/darkness.

So, while I also prefer 1x, I do see valid reasons to have time accelerated.

[KajMak64Bit2 125]

On 4/29/2021 at 4:08 PM, 'AZAZEL' said:

I don't mind realism by any means, but by that logic ... I would also like you to get shot in the head by a 9mm or .45 ACP and survive like you do in dayz currently. 🤪

I mean if we want dayz to be about realism, then that would require turning almost every gun in the game to be lethal with 1 or 2 shots depending where you hit ofc ... which would throw gun balancing out of the window.

you can survive 9mm or 45 acp to the head... it can bounce... it's all based on distance and the angle.. you can't survive Big Gun Calibers to the head tho... unless by miracle it also bounces... pistols are deadly the closer they are to the head

Also about that how fast leg heals... and healing it with sticks and rags... yea that's realistic... depending on how it breaks... it's like putting on a cast... but it would be boring to wear a cast in game for a few WEEKS irl time... so stuff needs to be more simplified and accelerated because it's fun... who would play a game where if you get hurt you need to play for weeks and months before you heal back up... it's basic logic xD 

Footwear is atleast for me... very RNG... sometimes shoes can last me for super duper long time... yet when i die and respawn with same those shoes they last for like 10 minutes or something idk xd 


Also realistic games that are kinda close to real life are faster then real life because people want to like... compress like 24h down to 1h or something... for example  because who would play Farming Simulator and wait a few months for their crops to grow so they can harvest and sell to get better equipment like wtf...

[William Sternritter 449]

55 minutes ago, drgullen said:

I agree, but unfortunately, I think most don't.  I've put up several servers since 1.0 but they all failed primarily I think for this reason.  I think most people want to experience the entire day/night cycle in one playing session.  I'm on the west coast of the US and my server's time was synced to real time, so for example, if you could only play on it during the week after work, you'd always be playing in sunset/darkness.

So, while I also prefer 1x, I do see valid reasons to have time accelerated.

Which has the solution of not syncing with realtime. Because time acceleration does not solve this at all. If you only have and hour or two to play and it just happens to be night on the server it is going to be night. If it last 3 or 8 hours is not relevant at that point. Experience from EU servers.

Thus, if you have only an hour or two to play, you will not see the full cycle and you just play at whatver time it is. If you have more time to play, like during a weekend, then it's just silly. What is the reason really, when people still log off during the night? I initially though that time acceleration would make people stay on the server, but at least judging from the official servers, they don't. Granted, there are other issues with night currently, but nightime was never popular with people who want fast shooty shooty. Sounds to me though like that is the crowd which argues for time acceleration. So, what is the reason again? Would it not rather pander to this crowd to have a 1x server that has day during the real evening and night? 

As I say, there are still plenty servers, at least one of the 1PP HC could be 1x. 

[Tonyeh 454]

2 hours ago, EzyStriderPS4 said:

@Tonyeh, I agree that shoe degradation is too quick. And it’s not an excuse to have ample leather sewing kits lying around.  In fact, it would be better to have longer lasting footwear and about half as many leather sewing kits. In some sadistic way, it could actually encourage travel around the map.

I would be fine if broken legs lasted 1 hour, 40 mins with splint, and you could sprain an ankle or knee or your back, which would decrease movement speed, but could be mitigated by pain killers (like codiene/morphine).

I'd probably be fine with a longer "sentence" regarding broken legs myself TBH.

But, in saying that, the only time I experienced one was in Namalsk when I went into some cabin in the middle of nowhere and some dick had set a mine. So...boom it went and left me with a damaged backpack, ruined trousers and a broken leg. I just immediately made a splint and hobbled to the nearest military base where I found a new pair of strides and a bag. Between the explosion and reaching the base was about 20 minutes or so, including stops along the way to light fires to heat up. By the time I'd reached the base, the leg was back to normal.

So, it just wasn't any more than a very mild annoyance.

Now, I've never actually broken a bone in real life. But if and when it happens, I really hope it's like that. 😁

[William Sternritter 449]

9 hours ago, Tonyeh said:

I'd probably be fine with a longer "sentence" regarding broken legs myself TBH.

It should be at least a couple of real time days, but then again someone will probably cry how it is a game and it needs to be fun. Because if things don't happen instantly it's not fun anymore ... 🙄

[DefectiveWater 539]

4 hours ago, William Sternritter said:

It should be at least a couple of real time days, but then again someone will probably cry how it is a game and it needs to be fun. Because if things don't happen instantly it's not fun anymore ... 🙄

not everyone has the time to squeeze out a total of 24+ hours of play time in one week, or more since you said couple of real time days (so 72? hours of playtime).
You would have to play 10 hours per day in a week, unless you wanted wounds to heal during your offline time too, but then it could be easily abused by just quitting the game when you get an injury.
Sounds awful, what we have now is maybe a tad too fast, but it's still better for the majority of players and I'm fine with that.

It's not crying, but if that got implemented game would literally die in terms of player count (just like 50-75% of the server pop leaving during horribly unfun vanilla nights), or modded servers would have to fix something that bohemia should fix, *cough* just like the beige building one way window *cough*.

Edited May 3, 2021 by DefectiveWater

[William Sternritter 449]

1 hour ago, DefectiveWater said:

not everyone has the time to squeeze out a total of 24+ hours of play time in one week, or more since you said couple of real time days (so 72? hours of playtime).
You would have to play 10 hours per day in a week, unless you wanted wounds to heal during your offline time too, but then it could be easily abused by just quitting the game when you get an injury.
Sounds awful, what we have now is maybe a tad too fast, but it's still better for the majority of players and I'm fine with that.

It's not crying, but if that got implemented game would literally die in terms of player count (just like 50-75% of the server pop leaving during horribly unfun vanilla nights), or modded servers would have to fix something that bohemia should fix, *cough* just like the beige building one way window *cough*.

I would say two days. Three days is maybe a stretch but I'd say no longer than that. 

You understand that the time on the server moves even while you're not logged in right? There is even a specific setting in the server config that says how much will the time move when noone is logged in. Food in your inventory for example will rot even if you're not logged in, because the server time still moves. 

Yes I realize that this would let people safely "sit out" these injuries , same as they skip night time while not playing, but I still think it is a better choice than having it healed in tens of minutes as it is now. 

Edited May 3, 2021 by William Sternritter

['AZAZEL' 110]

18 hours ago, William Sternritter said:

What is the reason really, when people still log off during the night?

From the top of my head

• NVGs being too OP (should get removed from the game) thus making any kind of light source usage a death sentence, at least near the mili places.
• Flashlight being useless since you can only use it in your hand (dayz ain't original DOOM 3) instead of having a dedicated slot for it, like in the backpack/shoulder à la Dying Light.
• Chemlight is not enough to illuminate places so that you can play properly.
• Even universal flashlight attached to the Tactical Helmet does not illuminate enough.
• If you have decent gear but you do not have NVGs, it's a lose-lose situation to play during the night.

 

Edited May 3, 2021 by 'AZAZEL'

[William Sternritter 449]

@'AZAZEL' question was, what are the reasons for accelerated time? Noting that people log off during the night regardless if it is accelerated or not. 

But since you brought it up NVGs are OP for sure, that's not how NVGs work, but hey they are properly gamified so it's fun 😉 

['AZAZEL' 110]

15 minutes ago, William Sternritter said:

@'AZAZEL' question was, what are the reasons for accelerated time? Noting that people log off during the night regardless if it is accelerated or not.

Ah, for me personally it's the simple fact that I can only play after 10pm ... and being restricted to play only during night time in the game would be garbage if it were real time.

Edited May 3, 2021 by 'AZAZEL'

[McWendy 675]

The headtorch works Just fine and your hands are free. 

The flashlight also works fine, granted being able to use a handgun at the same time should be possible

Also the universal flashlight on tactical helmet works enough to continue what you were doing. Keyword tactical.

If you want full sight use a gaslamp.

I find all lightsources to work as intendid. Only thing bothering me is the rendering of it all. That's lacking

[William Sternritter 449]

1 hour ago, 'AZAZEL' said:

Ah, for me personally it's the simple fact that I can only play after 10pm ... and being restricted to play only during night time in the game would be garbage if it were real time.

You do not avoid nights with accelerated time, you still get few hours of night. If you want to play just during the day, would it not be better to have a 1x server that has day on the server when you have evening IRL? 

['AZAZEL' 110]

51 minutes ago, William Sternritter said:

You do not avoid nights with accelerated time, you still get few hours of night. If you want to play just during the day, would it not be better to have a 1x server that has day on the server when you have evening IRL? 

Depends. If I could attach a flashlight to my backpack by default like you can do with the MunghardsItempack mod, I would certainly play more at night.

[Tonyeh 454]

11 hours ago, William Sternritter said:

It should be at least a couple of real time days, but then again someone will probably cry how it is a game and it needs to be fun. Because if things don't happen instantly it's not fun anymore ... 🙄

What you'll have then is players just suiciding out and starting again. I can't imagine that there are too many players out that that would be willing to put up with limping around the map(s) for 2 entire days.