There's a point where realism gets in the way of fun.

[YeedMyLastHaw669 17]

And by god, basebuilding has far surpassed that point. 

Cons : Takes far too much time, takes far too much resources, nearly impossible to secure as people can glitch under the map and into bases, Boosting is an ever present threat, barbed wire does almost nothing.

Pros : looks cool sometimes, you can store a backup kit there in case you die, car storage. 

Although what does storage matter when there isn't such a thing as secure bases ? 

NOTE : glowstick/knife wall glitch was fixed, otherwise that'd be listed in the list of cons.

 

[DayzDayzFanboy 1280]

I honestly don't see why people build based to stash gear. Just hide stuff

[YeedMyLastHaw669 17]

4 hours ago, DayzDayzFanboy said:

I honestly don't see why people build based to stash gear. Just hide stuff

it's cool to have bases and they look absolutely amazing. that's it.

[Thundermight 43]

 I absolutly agree to that.
 I've brought that myself quite a while ago, that sometimes you must address gameplay instead of realism and since then some measures was taking in account, but we still far from ideal (which is relative, i know).
 A few things still at top of my head, like basebuilding, buried storage, NVG, CLE, cars and a few more that i just can remember right now.  
 Basebuilding, not going to dwell on it too much, but just quoting some guy on the forum "Basebuilding still a cruel joke".
 Buried storage should just go away or be heavily nerfed. Right now it is just pointless to do anything other than make some crates and bury your "good stuff" making tents and basebuilding almost pointless, unless you want it for roleplay or whatever, but still pointless and not worthy in comparison. Barrels into lakes should go too. 
 NVG, as rare as it is, is so fucking unfair. Here i think that should be taking in account not how much you see in the dark, which is the point of NVG, but consider how easy you can spot people with glowstick, torch or lantern. i know that night right now is not as dark as it used to be and people are not that affraid to play at night anymore, but still, some minor change on that would help.
 As for CLE, it is getting better, that change that helicrash would not count towards stored items was amazing, but still need some more "motivation" to make people leave coastal areas.
 Cars. No i'll not say "fix cars", but... We all know that developers have been struggling on that matter but a small solution that would serve as a band-aid is so you don't take damage from collision inside a vehicle. Once it flies and go to hell, you might loose it (and probably everything inside) but will still keep your own loot, which is better than loose everything.
 Also i would like to know if would be possible to have some sort of id per item, so you could know when an item is duplicated and remove it or only for a few rare items (LAR, SVD, NVG).
considering it would not melt servers down like weight for wetness did.
 Last one was more about a glitch and a bit out of topic, i know. 
 We love realism, but sometimes you must address gameplay first.

Almost forgot to mention, an ingame map that makes sense too would be great, so i don't need to use my second monitor or phone as map. 

[p4nnus 42]

On 1/21/2021 at 9:36 PM, YeedMyLastHaw669 said:

And by god, basebuilding has far surpassed that point. 

Cons : Takes far too much time, takes far too much resources, nearly impossible to secure as people can glitch under the map and into bases, Boosting is an ever present threat, barbed wire does almost nothing.

Pros : looks cool sometimes, you can store a backup kit there in case you die, car storage. 

Although what does storage matter when there isn't such a thing as secure bases ? 

NOTE : glowstick/knife wall glitch was fixed, otherwise that'd be listed in the list of cons.

 

What made you think that some wooden walls and a padlock would keep your base secure? What made you think that it was supposed to be totally secure? 

OFC glitches need to go, but I dont think the bases were never intended to be raid-proof or even close to that.

[p4nnus 42]

On 1/22/2021 at 5:23 PM, Thundermight said:

Buried storage should just go away or be heavily nerfed. Right now it is just pointless to do anything other than make some crates and bury your "good stuff" making tents and basebuilding almost pointless, unless you want it for roleplay or whatever, but still pointless and not worthy in comparison. Barrels into lakes should go too. 

This is not Rust or some other fortress building/defending simulator. If you guys can have your wooden forts, the peeps who dont care for that kind of silly stuff can have their buried stashes. Why should you be able to find all the stuff other people have? 

Base building is not even a legacy DayZ feature. Its only there so that RP and clan players can have sth to do because they cant have choppers and theres no other "endgame". Its literally supposed to be a cool looking time-sink with some possibilities for modded servers and RP servers.

[Thundermight 43]

On 1/25/2021 at 1:39 PM, p4nnus said:

This is not Rust or some other fortress building/defending simulator. If you guys can have your wooden forts, the peeps who dont care for that kind of silly stuff can have their buried stashes. Why should you be able to find all the stuff other people have? 

 You dismissed my point.
 I'm not talking that you shouldn't bury it or wanting a "fortress building/simulator" as you suggested.
 I'm simply saying that, as for any game, storage must be balanced, and right now, bury is far more effective than all other alternatives available, not only basebuilding.
 

[Tonyeh 444]

Bases are a beacon. They, literally, advertise your stash, whatever it is. It practically entices players to try and nick it or at least fuck your base up. Any base that I have seen in the game has been hacked at at some point and absolutely nowhere is safe.

Putting your stuff in a crate and chucking on the ground under a tree (don't even bother burying it) is a much safer way of keeping hold of your gear. Bases are pointless in DayZ, because [A.] the map isn't big enough for them to be truly remote, and [B.] You (or your buddies) aren't living there, so they are impossible to defend at all times, which they need to be.

[Tonyeh 444]

On 1/22/2021 at 3:23 PM, Thundermight said:

 Buried storage should just go away or be heavily nerfed. Right now it is just pointless to do anything other than make some crates and bury your "good stuff" making tents and basebuilding almost pointless, unless you want it for roleplay or whatever, but still pointless and not worthy in comparison. Barrels into lakes should go too.

While I agree that tents and bases are pointless, I don't agree that buried loot needs to "just go away". Burying stashes should be the ideal method of keeping a cache of goods. What needs to go is the exploit that allows other players see buried loot. Because that's a serious pain in the arse.

Storing anything in tents or buildings in DayZ, though, is a fool's game. Because the map is just too small. Your post apocalyptic home sweet home is simply bound to be encountered by someone.

I tried it once. Found a really lonely cabin way off the beaten track and buried a lot of stuff in the garden of the house. I didn't build any structures or farm anything. So, it looked just like any normal house. My stash lasted for a few weeks and then I logged in one day to find everything had been nabbed. So that was the end of that.

Now I build a crate and chuck it on the ground. Been doing this for a few months now and still have everything I've collected. You really need to away from the heavy traffic areas though.

[Thundermight 43]

 I do agree when you say that burying stashes is far better for storage and all other mentions of how tents and basebuilding is bad, and that is exacly my point!
 But, why? Consider how much effort you need to make a base versus the effort to make a few wooden crates or finding a drybag, is it fair?
 I know that people will always go for the more efficient one, but for the game (any game, not just dayz) balance is a must. 
 And yes if you follow realism, burying would be the most effective, but that is the point on this topic isn't? As the tittle suggests "theres a point where realism gets in the way of fun" and i think that lack of balance in order to create a "realistic experience" is a bad concept for any game.

 

[Tonyeh 444]

The "why" is because the map is too small. There's bound to be a player or players walking by your base at some point. It's unavoidable.

The effort required to build a base means nothing and "fairness" doesn't come into it.

Frankly, if you're building a base, you're on a fool's errand.

[Thundermight 43]

20 hours ago, Tonyeh said:

The "why" is because the map is too small. There's bound to be a player or players walking by your base at some point. It's unavoidable.

The effort required to build a base means nothing and "fairness" doesn't come into it.

Frankly, if you're building a base, you're on a fool's errand.

  A larger map would make burying even safer.
 And effort should mean result, but you don't get it.
 At this point you either don't get it or is just arguing for the sake of arguing. 
 I'm out.

[Tonyeh 444]

Bye so...

[VodkaFish 38]

9 hours ago, Thundermight said:

 And effort should mean result, but you don't get it.

Exactly.   We have real lives.  I can't live in Dayz, and don't want to.  In real life if we were sleeping at our base we'd be there to respond to intruders.   In the game we are not.  Concessions need to be made to improve the security of bases or the development team should just admit failure and get rid of the base building feature all together.   Why did they provide base building?  Why do players bother attempting to build a base? because of the illusion of security provided by BI.   They've failed us.

Some people say you could not have a bomb shelter.  Or a sufficiently fortified building.   I disagree on both cases.  Look at the Vietnamese who dug tunnel systems with hand tools.   They used them to transport and store weapons, people, provide shelter, make shift hospitals, etc.  It was very difficult to find the entrances.  In this game if you bury stuff they use the head lamp glitch to find your stash.  

Simple solution that will not clutter the map:  There should be a feature that hides the entrance your subterranean base.  There should be a limit to the number of bases you can own.  There should be a storage limit cap.  problem solved.   You can require resources to build this base.  Wood to re-enforce the walls/roof.  Pipes to source water, create airflow.  A barrel for a fireplace. etc.     Come on BI, use some imagination.

[Matt20714 26]

“Realism” is the reason I play this game.  It’s unique and unlike any other.  Within its history, it seems the devs have stuck to this original goal and that’s what makes the game what it is.  They get off their strict prerogative, catering to an individual’s wants, needs that ultimately strays away from that origin, and it becomes something else altogether.  
 

I’m also a player that uses the in game tourist map, not an app on my iPhone.  I’m THAT guy.  To each their own.  Just my .02.

[DayzDayzFanboy 1280]

3 hours ago, Matt20714 said:

’m also a player that uses the in game tourist map, not an app on my iPhone.  I’m THAT guy.  To each their own.  Just my .02.

Likewise, I don't use external apps. I feel the same about helicopters. I hope they don't add them as it just seems ridiculous to me that Joe blogs could repair and fly a helicopter. I also feel base building is somewhat unrealistic too. I like the idea of fortifying a house, boarding up windows, etc., and also burying stuff. This seems realistic to me. I can't imagine many people building huge wooden forts during an apocalypse. This just seems far fetched. This aside though, I don't think it is easy to raid a base unless you are a group with all the tools. Every time I come across a base I can't break into it simply for lack of tools. I can't speak for glitches, wouldn't know how to or even want to. It just seems to me that base building is a secondary activity in this game and isn't necessary. The idea of dying and then running back to your base to restock, or even to your body completely spoils the immersion for me. I don't believe in reincarnation! 

Edited February 2, 2021 by DayzDayzFanboy

[Tonyeh 444]

11 hours ago, VodkaFish said:

Look at the Vietnamese who dug tunnel systems with hand tools.   They used them to transport and store weapons, people, provide shelter, make shift hospitals, etc.  It was very difficult to find the entrances.  In this game if you bury stuff they use the head lamp glitch to find your stash.

None of which were secure or designed to be impenetrable, which is what people are complaining about with regards to base building in DayZ. But I get what you're trying to say. However, with the difficulties of burying loot crates that exist at the moment, building a series of massive underground tunnels is a pipe dream and will remain so.

The simple fact is is that if you make bases impossible to break into, you'll have one side squawking about it and if you make them possible to break and enter, you get the other side yapping.

Unfortunately, the "realistic" thing is that in a real life situation like the one presented in DayZ, a base would, in fact, be rather useless in all likelihood. It would eventually be broken into in some capacity. Unless it was built into an already existing secure structure and, frankly, that would more than likely end up as somebody's tomb if it was found to be occupied.

[Tonyeh 444]

10 hours ago, Matt20714 said:

“Realism” is the reason I play this game.  It’s unique and unlike any other.  Within its history, it seems the devs have stuck to this original goal and that’s what makes the game what it is.  They get off their strict prerogative, catering to an individual’s wants, needs that ultimately strays away from that origin, and it becomes something else altogether.  
 

I’m also a player that uses the in game tourist map, not an app on my iPhone.  I’m THAT guy.  To each their own.  Just my .02.

Exactly. DayZ offers something that no other game does. It's survival aspect is why I play it. To be honest, people looking for bases, helicopters, missions and whatnot are playing the wrong game. All of that shit just generates frustration and arguments.

[Just Caused 423]

8 minutes ago, Tonyeh said:

Exactly. DayZ offers something that no other game does. It's survival aspect is why I play it. To be honest, people looking for bases, helicopters, missions and whatnot are playing the wrong game. All of that shit just generates frustration and arguments.

Why do you consider someone who wants to build a base not "fit" to this game?

[William Sternritter 441]

I use the printed map that is even better 🙂

With regard to helicopters, yes it would be great if those were proper sim level like helicopters in DCS. That would also mean pretty much no repairs, but that would of course completely ruin one of the gameplay loops of DayZ. And 99% of players would be total cry babies about the fact that it is realistic and they cannot fly them.

Same goes for base building. It is absolutely fine, a large group would build a base like that but not a single individual and not so fast. People IRL would also undestand that wooden wall is destructable 😉

 

Edited February 2, 2021 by William Sternritter

[Tonyeh 444]

1 hour ago, Just Caused said:

Why do you consider someone who wants to build a base not "fit" to this game?

Well, I don't entirely think that it doesn't "fit". But Building, defending, storming bases just seems to be the mechanics of a death match military sim, rather than a post apocalyptic zombie survival game. I know DayZ is built upon Arma and understand the desire to build a base. But I don't think that the game is really set up for such a thing. It's bound to lead to frustration as I mentioned earlier, because a balance is going to be next to impossible to find. Make things too hard to penetrate and you'll piss people off. Make things too easy or even just possible to break into and you'll piss people off too.

There's going to be no winning here.

[Thundermight 43]

@Tonyeh I've said i'll be out or arguing with you and i will. But i would like to mention that cleary your perspective of reality on the walking dead or something like that.
 Quoting you here "Unless it was built into an already existing secure structure and, frankly, that would more than likely end up as somebody's tomb if it was found to be occupied."  cleary a TWD perspective. I might ask you then, have you EVER spent a week on the woods or even sleeped a night there? Do you have any idea how it is like? IT IS NOT SAFE! So, how do you get "safer"? To get into a f****ng house. 
Also, you seems to don't see any problem on buried stuff, so let me point a "realistic" part missing there. I suggest you to try any day to bury (Whatever the f**k you want to bury) into a wooden box, after 1st rain go check it. **Spoiler alert** it's all wasted. And i'm not counting for landslide and other things like that.
You mention missions, helicopters and basebuilding as being "in the wrong game", as much as i think it is true for first two, the later one is not, as i mention before. But it is a game, and when someone say that they are "stuck on the theme" that is also not true, they did change how you get into bases when they removed dismantle from outside for example.
 We are not asking for impenetrable basebuilding or some wierd stuff like what they do on community servers, we just want it to be a bit more balanced because no matter  what you say IT IS A GAME and no even a single game can fully reproduce a realism on that scale, so you must adress gameplay too. 
 

[Tonyeh 444]

What the hell is the matter with you. Why are you taking this so personally? Yes, it is just a GAME.

Thing is, the devs will never win with base building. For some people, it'll always be too easy to break into them and for others they'll cry because it'll be too hard.

The facts of the matter are thus: building a base will encourage other players to break into it and it will happen at some point because the map is too limited. So players have to either A. Accept that there's a risk or B. Make them impenetrable to stop other players from breaking into them.

Either solution will piss someone off.

Edited February 2, 2021 by Tonyeh

[VodkaFish 38]

4 hours ago, Thundermight said:

IT IS A GAME and not even a single game can fully reproduce a realism on that scale, so you must address gameplay too. 
 

this

[KommanderWar-94971bcb672f9055 26]

On 1/25/2021 at 1:39 PM, p4nnus said:

Este não é Rust ou algum outro simulador de construção / defesa de fortaleza. Se vocês podem ter seus fortes de madeira, os peeps que não ligam para esse tipo de coisa idiota podem ter seus esconderijos enterrados. Por que você deve ser capaz de encontrar todas as coisas que outras pessoas têm? 

O edifício básico nem mesmo é um recurso legado do DayZ. Está lá apenas para que RP e os jogadores do clã possam ter algo para fazer, porque eles não podem ter helicópteros e não há outro "fim de jogo". É literalmente suposto ser um desperdício de tempo de aparência legal com algumas possibilidades para servidores modificados e servidores RP.

why should a player be able to take everything the other player has? I don't think that's right, I think it would be better if the bases were not adjustable, but it would be unfair to make bases inside houses so then it should be blocked within constructions, and the other players could enter your base, jumping over, using another player as a ladder, it would be more realistic, and inside he would dismount to get out, well, in real life I don't think I would throw several grenades at the door of some place that I would want to enter

Edited February 14, 2021 by KommanderWar-94971bcb672f9055