So let's talk clothes!

[rickyriot 1009]

.. Sorry for the length of this (oo-er, missus!) but there is a TLDR at the end..

Clothes have a damage level and if you find something that is "ruined" you shouldn't be able to wear it - and I think that is the situation as it stands now. However if you are wearing clothes that gets "ruined" you can keep wearing them with no real negative. I think a little tweak should be added to address that.

One such tweak would be clothing debuffs. Two of them, one static one active and they would be based on two metrics; capacity and integrity. These debuffs would only be applied to the lowest three tiers of damage; damaged, badly damaged and ruined.

Capacity is simple enough, it's a static percentage that is applied based on it's damage level. Just for argument's sake we'll set these to 10, 25 and 60. For a pair of jeans 20 slots, would drop to 18 slots (10%) then 15 slots (25%) then 8 slots (60%). You would continue to wear the clothing item but anything that didn't fit in the reduced number of slots would be dropped at your feet.

Restoring capacity is as simple as repairing the item. This will take you to "worn" which is a level above any debuffs being applied.

Next up, integrity. This is applied in two ways and is affected not just by movement but by how far and how fast you move. If you don't move the integrity debuff should be almost zero percent. If you do then there could be two outcomes; either things "fall out" or the actual clothing itself "falls off". As you would expect, walking and crouching should have the lowest percentage going up for jogging then again for sprinting. What's more the value initially applied based on the movement should increment dependent on how long that action is taken.

Integrity, like the capacity debuff, is improved by repairing the item.

So, with all that in mind, let me explain why I'm suggesting this and how it will benefit the game.

For a start it's a level of realism (well... "DayZ realism" anyway!). If you had clothing that was damaged you wouldn't expect to stuff as much other stuff into it. In real life that's because you'd be wary of putting too much strain on a damaged item, in game we can replace that with a generic % capacity debuff. If you decided to move while wearing a damaged item you could realistically expect might things to fall out, the more damage the more likely to fall out. If you had a backpack that is damaged, it's as likely to lose items as to actually fall off – which in game we consider the holding straps breaking.

Another reason is the way it would effect the loot economy. At present there is a lot of clothes out there not being used. That's a lot of wasted space in memory, static and not respawning. The reason is they don't need to be used. You might check for a cheeky tin of beans but overall you're walking past that pair of capri pants. Same thing once you are geared. You're never going into a one horse town for loot scraps, you're going high stakes – and rightly so. Introducing buffs to items will raise the value of low level loot and get it circulating again. Smaller towns away from the coast (and away from fresh spawns) will start to look more inviting once your previously pristine army trousers can't hold all your gear but a new pair of low level jeans will.

People will start looking after their clothing more! I am a bit obsessed, so maybe this is just me, but I will always look to repair my clothes when I get a chance. This is fairly common, but not universal. I've seen many streamers run around in ruined gear all session. As there are no debuffs applied to clothing there is no real reason to repair. Like low level clothes it would increase the value of sewing kits and duct tape but it would start people using lesser loot items. Currently, just how many people have been genuinely excited about finding a leather sewing kit?

--[TL;DR]--

In short, no penalties exist for wearing ruined clothing and that could change with several debuffs applied. Exactly how strong these debuffs are is open to debate but they should not interfere with gameplay, rather they should enhance the immersion element.

These debuffs would refer to the carrying capacity and the integrity of the item; the latter meaning items being dropped or the whole item itself falls off you.

Not only would debuffs effect your clothing, it would alter the loot economy as it brings sewing kits and low level clothing into play far more, getting the best use out of the loot on map.

Possible problems? What to do with clothing ruined during a fight? So you face up to a couple of zombies, one hits you enough to damage your jacket, your jacket happens to have the bandages and they are now on the floor and you are scrambling to pick up the bandages while working out what else has been dropped at the same time fight off the zombies. So, yeah, the idea that it's instantaneous is a bad one. It would need to be far more subtle than that. However that said, if a zombie was to slash at you it would rip your clothes and potentially rip open a pocket. What's more if you go from a standing start to a sprint and you are wearing a ruined backpack it's entirely reasonable for the items to fall out. As I said, there is a level of realism here; "DayZ realism", but realism.

So... I sort of hate to ask for thoughts about this as that's when I feel it'll get ripped apart, however let's see what everyone else thinks....

 

 

Oh, and if you lasted this far down the post then well done. Your reward is this:

Spoiler

 

Edited June 22, 2019 by rickyriot

[rickyriot 1009]

44 views but not a single comment?

[McWendy 675]

3 hours ago, rickyriot said:

44 views but not a single comment?

There are more important fish to be fried and things that need to be done. What you want doesnt fit in that category.  So why comment on something that will never happen because stuff that was promised wont even happen.

I like your vision but you wasted energy with this. It will never happen.

Dayz has been forfeited 

[rickyriot 1009]

43 minutes ago, McWendy said:

There are more important fish to be fried and things that need to be done.

I agree with that, but not necessarily the rest of it.

I don't see any reason not to discuss how to improve the game, even if it just ends up as a mod rather than in vanilla. Not that I know how to write a mod, at best I'd guess it's a lua based scripting engine, although I don't believe it would take a lot to get it working. Tweaking it so it's a benefit rather than a huge pain in the ass is the art.

[McWendy 675]

You're probably right.

I lost faith after the last update. Appearently i also lost an open mind.

[Lt.Master 77]

Currently, if you have a ruined vest all the items in it will be damaged with the next hit.

I currently can't check if my words are right but If I'm not wrong a ruined hoodie (for example) will protect less(to not at all) from the cold, the run and the damage from a hit/bullet. And this idea apply for ruined/badly damaged/damaged and worn. But that's it, we don't have any other penalities....

When we had for the first time vehicles I thought we could drop some items from the trunk of our car because we didn't had a trunk... But this was not the case. I have to agree it's a good idea on paper but we need to think how to let the player know he dropped something and why to make the experience good 🙂

We have a sound when we start bleeding... So why not a sound of a cloth being riped off ? We add to that a sound of the object when this one hit the floor and a grunt noise from the character. Should be enough to acknowledge the player about "something happend you should check what". If the object is fragile, why not add a random chance to damage the item ?

We could have tons of way to indicate what or at least something happend. The real issue is, is it really fun ? The best way to know is to create a prototype and test.This is where most of the ideas are dropped for various reasons. I guess the devs had at least once the idea from the team or from a player since the game exist to be honest with you. This is where a lot of games don't communicate. Did they have this idea in the list of the "why not" ? Did they tryed to see if it was a good idea ingame ?

Just to give you a idea, Minecraft only have a website dedicated for that since this year and other games like Project Zomboid sometimes drop a small message to let the players they agree (or don't). PZ is very close to Dayz in his original plan, a true hardcode survival experience. This quote is what Project Zomboid SHOULD have instead of dayz. While we know how to fix any cars, use guns, repair anything like nothing, build like a pro and eat anything without worrying for the calories. Project zomboid go full simulation x)

And yet they don't have this feature to drop a item on the ground because your backpack is in a very bad shape and because you are being screwed by zombies. Maybe they will add this idea one day in this game, but they maybe tryed and saw something bad for the player experience ?

[Lt.Master 77]

23 minutes ago, McWendy said:

You're probably right.

I lost faith after the last update. Appearently i also lost an open mind.

even if it's off-topic, what caused that loose of faith ?

[McWendy 675]

56 minutes ago, Lt.Master said:

even if it's off-topic, what caused that loose of faith ?

Guess Its the fact that Its more and more NOT about survival.

It was the survival part WITH infected that drew me. The mod was oké, the standalone i thought was better (mind you im not the overpoch epoch kind of guy) Sure the game needed a lot of attention to become decent/good/playable but around 0.62/0.63 we were getting in a good spot. 

Then the new engine came and well if you have been on the forums in the last half year i dont think i need to say more about development. 

For the pvp part imo there are better games out there. I dont mind the pvp but pve is almost non existent in dayz.

[Kirov (DayZ) 585]

On 6/22/2019 at 12:56 PM, rickyriot said:

.

Capacity is simple enough, it's a static percentage that is applied based on it's damage level. Just for argument's sake we'll set these to 10, 25 and 60. For a pair of jeans 20 slots, would drop to 18 slots (10%) then 15 slots (25%) then 8 slots (60%). You would continue to wear the clothing item but anything that didn't fit in the reduced number of slots would be dropped at your feet.

 

The fact that there's not even some simplest placeholder mechanics (like you described) for stuff like that has always worried me about design choices. Like, how hard is to come up with something simple which would make a big element of the game 30% more interesting? Rice cooking is another thing that comes to mind. But yeah, with all those the clothing items lying around, basically I always go for the spaciest dark ones and just stick to them.

I understand that people wanted variety, but whenever I find a dress or sneakers or a pink balaclava, something in me just sighs in resignation. Doing something about the clothing would be very much in place, indeed. Damage affecting slot capacity/integrity is a good idea. I think we do have some other minor effects, like ruined raincoat does not protect against the rain, but who cares really. Ruined backpacks for example also fulfill their intended role.

[Kirov (DayZ) 585]

11 hours ago, McWendy said:

Guess Its the fact that Its more and more NOT about survival.

It was the survival part WITH infected that drew me. The mod was oké, the standalone i thought was better (mind you im not the overpoch epoch kind of guy) Sure the game needed a lot of attention to become decent/good/playable but around 0.62/0.63 we were getting in a good spot. 

Then the new engine came and well if you have been on the forums in the last half year i dont think i need to say more about development. 

For the pvp part imo there are better games out there. I dont mind the pvp but pve is almost non existent in dayz.

I share the feeling, but I think the survival part never worked as advertised on the box and it was always a bit dismaying at the end. Like, at some moment there's really just not that much to do and then I quit. I had my fingers crossed for 1.04 being survival-oriented... well, next time I guess. Or after the next.

And I strongly agree that DayZ has been quite a poor PVP game, especially before stamina. When I want to shoot, I just play Insurgency. Fewer bugs, no clipping and you get into action right away.

 

Now that I think about it, PVE could be split into 2 sub-categories - one is how many survivalist elements are in game (crafting, animals, etc.), another is how hard actually is the 'VERSUS environment' part. And yeah, the second part is largely non-existent. You could decide to eat pears only and still be quite well off.

[rickyriot 1009]

While I appreciate it is slightly off topic I agree with the sentiment about the game moving a little too much towards PvP and the ideas I've put forward are tilted towards survival/realism. I felt the 1.0 release was targetted towards PvP players - whether that was intentional or not I can't say.

That said, if there is a solid framework for modding, a "true survival" version of DayZ would appear as there are enough people who are drawn to that sort of gameplay.

 

[eno 1049]

On 6/23/2019 at 6:44 AM, rickyriot said:

44 views but not a single comment?

Hooooooooooooly fuck dude- turn the need down a notch. 

Go eat an apple... or a person- I don't give a fuck but wow. Turn the psycho down. 

Edited June 25, 2019 by eno

[rickyriot 1009]

2 hours ago, eno said:

Hooooooooooooly fuck dude- turn the need down a notch. 

Go eat an apple... or a person- I don't give a fuck but wow. Turn the psycho down.

To paraphrase the 80's comedy stylings of Gary Coleman... "just what the fuck are you talking about, Willis?

[Jack Died 0]

On 6/22/2019 at 8:56 PM, rickyriot said:

.. Sorry for the length of this (oo-er, missus!) but there is a TLDR at the end..

Clothes have a damage level and if you find something that is "ruined" you shouldn't be able to wear it - and I think that is the situation as it stands now. However if you are wearing clothes that gets "ruined" you can keep wearing them with no real negative. I think a little tweak should be added to address that.

One such tweak would be clothing debuffs. Two of them, one static one active and they would be based on two metrics; capacity and integrity. These debuffs would only be applied to the lowest three tiers of damage; damaged, badly damaged and ruined.

Capacity is simple enough, it's a static percentage that is applied based on it's damage level. Just for argument's sake we'll set these to 10, 25 and 60. For a pair of jeans 20 slots, would drop to 18 slots (10%) then 15 slots (25%) then 8 slots (60%). You would continue to wear the clothing item but anything that didn't fit in the reduced number of slots would be dropped at your feet.

Restoring capacity is as simple as repairing the item. This will take you to "worn" which is a level above any debuffs being applied.

Next up, integrity. This is applied in two ways and is affected not just by movement but by how far and how fast you move. If you don't move the integrity debuff should be almost zero percent. If you do then there could be two outcomes; either things "fall out" or the actual clothing itself "falls off". As you would expect, walking and crouching should have the lowest percentage going up for jogging then again for sprinting. What's more the value initially applied based on the movement should increment dependent on how long that action is taken.

Integrity, like the capacity debuff, is improved by repairing the item.

So, with all that in mind, let me explain why I'm suggesting this and how it will benefit the game.

For a start it's a level of realism (well... "DayZ realism" anyway!). If you had clothing that was damaged you wouldn't expect to stuff as much other stuff into it. In real life that's because you'd be wary of putting too much strain on a damaged item, in game we can replace that with a generic % capacity debuff. If you decided to move while wearing a damaged item you could realistically expect might things to fall out, the more damage the more likely to fall out. If you had a backpack that is damaged, it's as likely to lose items as to actually fall off – which in game we consider the holding straps breaking.

Another reason is the way it would effect the loot economy. At present there is a lot of astroworld shop clothes out there not being used. That's a lot of wasted space in memory, static and not respawning. The reason is they don't need to be used. You might check for a cheeky tin of beans but overall you're walking past that pair of capri pants. Same thing once you are geared. You're never going into a one horse town for loot scraps, you're going high stakes – and rightly so. Introducing buffs to items will raise the value of low level loot and get it circulating again. Smaller towns away from the coast (and away from fresh spawns) will start to look more inviting once your previously pristine army trousers can't hold all your gear but a new pair of low level jeans will.

People will start looking after their clothing more! I am a bit obsessed, so maybe this is just me, but I will always look to repair my clothes when I get a chance. This is fairly common, but not universal. I've seen many streamers run around in ruined gear all session. As there are no debuffs applied to clothing there is no real reason to repair. Like low level clothes it would increase the value of sewing kits and duct tape but it would start people using lesser loot items. Currently, just how many people have been genuinely excited about finding a leather sewing kit?

--[TL;DR]--

In short, no penalties exist for wearing ruined clothing and that could change with several debuffs applied. Exactly how strong these debuffs are is open to debate but they should not interfere with gameplay, rather they should enhance the immersion element.

These debuffs would refer to the carrying capacity and the integrity of the item; the latter meaning items being dropped or the whole item itself falls off you.

Not only would debuffs effect your clothing, it would alter the loot economy as it brings sewing kits and low level clothing into play far more, getting the best use out of the loot on map.

Possible problems? What to do with clothing ruined during a fight? So you face up to a couple of zombies, one hits you enough to damage your jacket, your jacket happens to have the bandages and they are now on the floor and you are scrambling to pick up the bandages while working out what else has been dropped at the same time fight off the zombies. So, yeah, the idea that it's instantaneous is a bad one. It would need to be far more subtle than that. However that said, if a zombie was to slash at you it would rip your astroworld shop clothes and potentially rip open a pocket. What's more if you go from a standing start to a sprint and you are wearing a ruined backpack it's entirely reasonable for the items to fall out. As I said, there is a level of realism here; "DayZ realism", but realism.

So... I sort of hate to ask for thoughts about this as that's when I feel it'll get ripped apart, however let's see what everyone else thinks....

 

 

Oh, and if you lasted this far down the post then well done. Your reward is this:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I like the rewards