Servers without friendly fire, aka pvp killing

[walrus2517 27]

' pid='242068' dateline='1341356448']

I don't see why it has to be all or nothing with this mod.

...snip...

Stop trying to make the game into something the majority of players' date=' and the Devs, don't want. PvE servers remove a CORE mechanic from the game.

[/quote']

First, I'm not telling anyone what to do, only predicting how I think this mod will evolve and questioning why it should be closed off to all but a specific style of play.

Second, Rocket already allowed someone to work on a single player version of the mod (although the relationship soured) so he is obviously open to the possibility since a large number of people, though you are correct it is far from the majority, are interested in it. People can post that absolutist quote about PvP a thousand times but it doesn't mean it can't change in the future.

Again, if it doesn't effect the hardcore players, I'm not sure why people are so avidly against even having this as a possibility. What harm would it do to have a PvE server if it is a separate character than can't be transferred to a PvP server? You can call the people playing on these servers carebears, cowards, or whatever, but if they are enjoying the experience, why would that bother you?

Like I said, I think eventually there will be a number of different modes to Day Z; PvP, PvE, single player, etc. so that people can enjoy the mod in the fashion they prefer without effecting anyone playing in another mode.

[zipper 69]

1. Because that is what they stated they wanted the game to be.

2. Rocket allowed him to do so providing he told him everything he was going to be doing ahead of time, always keeping him informed. Additionally, you don't know that it was only going to be PvE in the single player. Arma does have the capability of providing AI that can walk and shoot. The absolutist quote comes from the FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS. They either a) got tired of people asking about it and put it in the FAQ or b) knew people would be asking about it once the mod became more popular, and didn't want to take the time to respond to every post regarding PvE servers.

3. It does affect the hardcore players. People get familiar with DayZ in supercarebare PvE mode. Then they get bored, and want something different. Now the people who only wanted to play on PvE servers, start coming into the PvP ones. They didn't want to play on PvP servers to begin with, and now they will do nothing but whine on the forums about nerfing X, Y, and Z for the servers we have always played on.

You can roll your eyes or say that isn't likely to happen, but I honestly can't think of a single game that it hasn't happened in. As soon as you start to separate the community, people always end up wanting what they can't have. The grass is always greener on the other side, and once they would get to that side, they would want to start encorporating things only found in PvE only servers. This isn't WoW. There is no "flagged" PvP system where you can't hit me one second but as soon as you turn around I can flag and shoot you in the back.

PvP is a core mechanic of the game. It greatly assists the player in immersing them into their environment. What you are suggesting is no different from me suggesting that Rocket has servers that are only 100% PvP with zero zombies. That isn't what DayZ is. We need to be suggesting ideas that make the game better, not completely change what the game already is.

[Niblik 1]

You will probably get a lot of replies that don't make sense. Let me translate for you.

Nooo I only want to kill people who hate being killed. If you take out the ability to make people miserable it won't be fun for me anymore.

There is really no other reason...

This ^

I'm all for player freedom but with zero consequences to killing, and no global chat, this is what my gameplay has become:

1. Gather supplies.

2. Shoot everyone because its too risky NOT to.

3. Run north to get away from coast.

4. Kill boar. Eat boar.

5. Gather better equipment.

6. Kill zeds and have a measure of fun with their challenge.

6. Spend all my time avoiding other players as I don't enjoy dying just to give them my loot.

7. Get sniped from 800 yards away without ever seeing my foe or having a chance to fight back.

8. Spawn on coast.

9. Get sniped/assault rifled while weaponless.

10. Gather supplies...

11. Rinse and repeat.

I'll note that I only really have fun with step 4 and 6. The rest is generally frustration with peaks during steps 6-9.

This mod shouldn't be fun for ONLY bandits.

[walrus2517 27]

' pid='242240' dateline='1341358287']

...snip...

PvP is a core mechanic of the game. It greatly assists the player in immersing them into their environment. What you are suggesting is no different from me suggesting that Rocket has servers that are only 100% PvP with zero zombies. That isn't what DayZ is. We need to be suggesting ideas that make the game better' date=' not completely change what the game already is.

[/quote']

In reply to 1, again, opinions change in time. If enough people ask for it and it's easy to implement, it will probably happen.

In reply to 2, I was only referencing that to show that Rocket is open to the idea of a non-PvP version of Day Z.

In reply to 3, I'm not sure enjoyment should be limited for a large minority just because a few are eventually going to whine on the forums that there isn't some middle ground between the PvP and PvE servers. People are already whining about PvP so it really won't change anything except make a few of the whiners happy. And, if Rocket really allows things to open up, who says someone won't come up with a middle ground set of rules and pay for a server.

Finally, I agree 100% the PvP aspect is crucial to the true Day Z experience. I probably should've been clear in my earlier posts I have no intentions of playing on a PvE server. I just don't think there is any reason not to have that option available. Looking to the Minecraft example, if you open things up it will only enhance the gaming experience and provide more room for experimentation and creativity to flow from the community, in the end enriching the core Day Z experience for everyone.

And again, I'm talking about this evolving in the long term, not saying that Rocket should divert a moment of attention away from whatever he is currently working on to implement anything like this.

---

@Niblik - I'm having the same experience, except I still enjoy 1 & 5 as well.

[a sleeping dog 3]

Again, if you really think that this mod is going to stay the way that it is, you are mistaken. Just ask Infinity Ward, or Dice, money changes everything. Rocket developed a ground breaking game that EVERY development company will want to get a piece of. One of those companies will throw him a fat stack and say, "Hey, why don't you make the game do this." and he will. And I would too. My point is the same as it was in my op. Create the options now so that the game doesn't change across the board. I don't want to play on a watered down version of what we have, but it will happen. Also, the more ideas, changes, and alterations Rocket creates now, the more he has the intellectual property rights on, which again, equals more money. Change is inevitable. Don't fight what you can't change, and change what you can't fight.

[chrismgtis 55]

MAJOR flaw in that. Bandits will go to non pvp servers to get gear' date=' and good stuff. Then go to Pvp servers, and then start owning.

[/quote']

Yeap. Only way to solve that is to force a distinction between PVP/PVE characters (meaning having two for either).

[Virfortis 111]

Love the "It's not a deathmatch!" sayings here, just mimicing word of mouth like it's law.

One quick look through the Gallery section of this forum proves this statement to be excruciatingly invalid. Axe murders, sniper montages, mass killing. Only a small handful of videos about working together, and most of those end up as betrayals. The "DayZ IRL" is even about deathmatching.

The game has devolved into a deathmatch, it's just a really slow one because of DCing and the fact that people spend hours alone. Rocket wants to say that there's only 7% murder rates, but what goes overlooked is that those 7% account for most, if not next to all, player to player encounters. The other 93% is dying to zombies, rocks, ladders, etc. But never does it involve another player. (There's a good book about this called How to Lie With Statistics. While rocket hasn't intentionally lied, the data is being read wrong)

As soon as 2 players are involved in DayZ, guns go blazing if they have them. So while it makes a small percentage of overall deaths, it's the gist of player-player encounters.

[a sleeping dog 3]

Holy Shit!! Please read the entire thread before posting.

[Mordred (DayZ) 0]

In real life us non bandits would hunt bandits down and string them up. If this was real you would have to band together under a leader because otherwise when you went to sleep you'd wake up being eaten or getting a load of buckshot in the head. Think California in the gold rush period. Vigilante groups hung hundreds of suspected theives just to make sure they got the right ones. Let the bandits get gear on non pvp servers, an hour into their pvp game they will be dead and screaming that someone looted their corpse.

[RicardoCCH (DayZ) 26]

If the game didn't have PvP, i would simply stop playing. It would become boring, very boring.

Hell, even with PvP, playing solo, i find the game a bit boring. The only thing that gets me going in this game is being sniped (killed) when going to high value targets, like Airfields, stary, etc. I know i'm going to be sniped (as i always do), but it's the challenge, the possibility of tricking group of players (or single) that guard those high value targets it's the only thing that keeps calling me back to this game.

But i wouldn't mind if there was the possibility for Non PvP Servers, if players desire it. Something like this:

Regular : 3DP=ON | CH=ON |Name Tags=ON | PvP=NO | DC=at will

Veteran: 3DP=ON | CH=ON |Name Tags=Off | PvP=YES | DC=5 Sec Wait

Hardcore: 3DP=OFF | CH=OFF |Name Tags=Off | PvP=YES | DC=20 Sec Wait

To avoid exploits, like gearing up in Regular and then moving to Veteran/Hardcore servers, different databases records should be maintained for each type of server and player, so that you could never import your character from different type of servers.

Like:

- if you play in Regular, when moving to Veteran, your character would restart

- If you play in veteran, when moving to hardcore, your character would restart

- The same backwards

I don't know if this is even possible, but it would certainly please some players. I would definitely only play on hardcore !!!

[EnermaX 59]

Go play Sims. There are no hostile players.

It's like removing guns from DOOM. Don't hurt the aliens!

[DaveAzoicer (DayZ) 135]

It could be fixed by not allowing to change server.

But what really needs to be done is to make it a disadvantage to be a bandit. Now it's onlt beneficial. Something needs to be done about that.

[Lukio (DayZ) 24]

To the people saying "this game has become deathmatch" I say no because death by other player in most cases is avoidable. You are not pitted against other players, you put yourself into that situation.

To the people saying "this game is no where near deathmatch", many of you are still romanticizing about the very beginning of the mod where saying you were friendly actually worked, where random survivors you met were relieved to meet others and wanted to cooperate & socialize.

So currently to me the mod is somewhere inbetween, which is ok-ish, I believe this game being a sandbox without many directions leads many players to boredom because they are not used to having no tasks or goals to achieve. So they go to the bean coast and shoot whatever isn't on a tree by three.

There is no way a game mechanic can fix this in a sandbox game, there will always be players bored and just getting a kick out of killing others. Instead of opening PvE servers, I'd prefer any addition that makes it worthwhile to cooperate with random players, without taking out the PvP.

[Tetrisash 0]

' pid='242240' dateline='1341358287']

PvP is a core mechanic of the game. It greatly assists the player in immersing them into their environment. What you are suggesting is no different from me suggesting that Rocket has servers that are only 100% PvP with zero zombies. That isn't what DayZ is. We need to be suggesting ideas that make the game better' date=' not completely change what the game already is.

[/quote']

Well said, really. Too many people already whining on and on about the PvP.

[Hawk24 94]

I'm all for player freedom but with zero consequences to killing' date=' and no global chat, this is what my gameplay has become:

1. Gather supplies.

2. Shoot everyone because its too risky NOT to.

3. Run north to get away from coast.

4. Kill boar. Eat boar.

5. Gather better equipment.

6. Kill zeds and have a measure of fun with their challenge.

6. Spend all my time avoiding other players as I don't enjoy dying just to give them my loot.

7. Get sniped from 800 yards away without ever seeing my foe or having a chance to fight back.

8. Spawn on coast.

9. Get sniped/assault rifled while weaponless.

10. Gather supplies...

11. Rinse and repeat.

This mod shouldn't be fun for ONLY bandits.

[/quote']

The point of this mod is that you set your own goals

If you find your own goals boring, do something else instead

But you clearly lack imagination for that

To the people saying "this game has become deathmatch" I say no because death by other player in most cases is avoidable. You are not pitted against other players, you put yourself into that situation.

Also this by a thousand times

[rick57@gmx.de 38]

The only reason people want PvE servers is that they are bored of being KoS'd all the goddamn time.

I love the PvP aspect of the Game but dang, I wish I could trust randoms and raid a city with someone else then ma TSBuddies.

Too bad people are dicks and need PK'ing, so they dont have to think about how bad everthing in their lifes is :angel:

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

But what really needs to be done is to make it a disadvantage to be a bandit. Now it's onlt beneficial. Something needs to be done about that.

Too right!

The question is, do we want the game developers to swoop in on fiery warhorses brandishing golden whips and start enforcing magical, divine law? Thrashing anyone who steps out of the pre-defined boxes of acceptable play?

Or do we want them to provide us, the players, a means to do something about it ourselves? To create our own system of law and our own means of enforcement?

I prefer the latter, personally. Why should the designers have to do our dirty work for us? Give players the means to recognize/remember players whom they have witnessed commit crimes, and they can do whatever they want with that information up to and including enforcing their own brand of apocalyptic justice.

Once you start calling for the designers to wave their magic wands and "punish" anyone who acts in a manner discordant with the will of the machine, then you've lost me and you've lost much of what makes DayZ great.

[dubsnake 0]

The only reason people want PvE servers is that they are bored of being KoS'd all the goddamn time.

I love the PvP aspect of the Game but dang' date=' I wish I could trust randoms and raid a city with someone else then ma TSBuddies.

Too bad people are dicks and need PK'ing, so they dont have to think about how bad everthing in their lifes is :angel:

[/quote']

Yeah this game will be so much fun without pvp, what a challenge!

[TheWiZarD (DayZ) 0]

No. No. No. This... This is just unrealistic. People who don't like getting killed by other players can learn themselves how to avoid that. Please stop with this no pvp and no friendly fire stuff... It's all part of what would happen in REAL-LIFE. You're basically asking the DayZ team to sell out :S

So you say, that in real life you would just walk up to someone just to shoot him, even if he is the only survivor you have seen in days ? That does not make sense, at least for me and I hope neither for you. The only thing I get killed by is other survivors/bandits and this is not what this game should be about. Killing without even trying to trade or at least talk to another survivor ist just lame.

[nycfreed@gmail.com 0]

I like how so many think that keeping PvP possible makes the game emulate if this were real life more. I propose that if this type of thing were to really happen, we wouldn't actually shoot each other for the sole reason "his backpack can store 4 extra cans of beans!" Although it would take the fun out of the game for most, and would take the choice of killing others out, I feel it would emulate RL better. Try half this shit in a post-apocalyptic scenario and your life will be horrible and you'd probably end up killing yourself.

[trigger10 2]

Wow that would be such a boring game without any pvp at all!

I got shot in the back about five times now, without any chance to avoid it, once in the middle of nowhere.

i mean this game has great potential but i get bored of this shoot on sight attitude.

its no fun if you stumble over an other player and reach for the salute or VOIP button and in the next second youre dead, even if you got youre goddamn flashlight in your hand^^

well its just an alpha

[Gran_Duma 0]

I love pvp. But PvP-less servers would be possible if they like, doubled the amount of zombies and how hard they hit.

[redsh1rt 24]

I should totally be allowed to join a PVE server, form an orderly queue outside the barracks, loot all the best guns in the game and then join a PVP server and kill people with said guns...

Some people really don't understand what this game is about. They just don't get it, they're too indoctrinated into the way games are today and the way you get rewarded and get instant gratification from them just for owning the game - you're suppose to be the hero, but guess what - you aren't.

Without PVP this game becomes utterly pointless - I can survive indefinitely by hiding in a forest as it is. The goal is survival, right? Why don't all you risk averse people get some water canteens and hide in the arse end of nowhere with a water source and hunt for food. You won't ever die. So you won't have access to high end loot/tools, but you have no need for them - all you have is a want for them but you aren't willing to accept that that want comes with some risk. The problem lies with you, not the game.

If you don't like getting shot at by random people without provocation stay away from airfields, hospitals, major cities, castles, the coast and frequented deer stands. What reason does a totally risk averse person have to visit those places? You can get by with matches, a hatchet and some refillable water canteens. All you have to do is hide in the hills where no one goes and you won't die. But that isn't enough for you, is it? You want to experience the game like the rest of us. Well then, you'll have to experience the game like the rest of us then... won't you?

I've played Eve Online and I've seen this argument a 1000 times... and then another few 100 times here - I probably shouldn't have bothered replying because a new thread will start soon enough. Lock them all, it isn't what the game is about.

You probably would not have heard of a mod called DayZ for a game called ARMA 2 if there was no PVP.

[chrismgtis 55]

I love pvp. But PvP-less servers would be possible if they like' date=' doubled the amount of zombies and how hard they hit.

[/quote']

Sure, because zombies that move at 100mph with Ninja-like speed and agility as if hooked up to the Matrix and break bones, knock unconscious, and have god-like prowess doesn't make them hard enough. :dodgy:

[Alessandro Deluca 0]

I agree to the no pvp servers thing i have been killed many time trying to get into a barn by an A** that just happend to be like 'i wanna be an a**hole and kill him every time i enter a city or a building i have to type 'friendly' and its soo irritating just getting killed plus its just a game who cares if its a 'What if it was real' situation people wanna be able to have fun and you know what it ruins the fun for the people who wanna play and not have to worry about loosing an alice pack, or a m4 cco SD or an mp5sd thigs that players work hard for is gone down a sh*t hole drain by one person and its very, very irritating so please at least make a non pvp server or too for players who want to with no bandits, oh and here is an idea make non pvp server have their own data base so bandits cant go in and get good things and go onto other server its all one thing, non pvp, then pvp servers it would be a life saver.