Remove server player list once in game.

[Roshi (DayZ) 396]

Really two linked suggestions:

1) Get rid of the messages bottom left regarding players losing connection or logging on.

2) Get rid of the player list (default 'P').

The first is issue is immersion breaking. The second allows you to keep tabs on the number of players on the server and allows you to adapt your tactics based on the probability of running into other players.

[edwin3 74]

if u want that immersion no one forces you to push 'p'. and u can pin a sheet at your monitors left bottom corner ;P

 

greets

[pilgrim* 3513]

Really two linked suggestions:

1) Get rid of the messages bottom left regarding players losing connection or logging on.

2) Get rid of the player list (default 'P').

The first is issue is immersion breaking. The second allows you to keep tabs on the number of players on the server and allows you to adapt your tactics based on the probability of running into other players.

 

I agree

 

Already you see how many playes are on the server before you log in - enough to think "high pop/low pop" so you can already decide what kind of game you want before you join

 

It's real exciting, on a server of say 8-10 players, to decide to go into town and suddenly see 12 new players log in, with six or seven of them carrying the same team tag.. wow..it changes your attitude.

BUT it is totally Meta-Gaming

I have to agree about that. The less info visible about other players, the better. Then whatever you run into is... gameplay.

 

[you perhaps should mention this on scriptfactory's vote thread ? https://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/229590-understanding-realism-in-computer-games-through-phenomenology-dayz-discussion/#entry2313410 ]

xx

Edited October 18, 2015 by pilgrim

[Fortune_Finder 33]

I get your point but...

On the other hand it would be boring to run hours upon hours on an empty server, cause you can't see if anyone is in it.

[atempleton 123]

If you don't want to know the player list, you do not need to look. Clans wear tags to get their name out and earn a name for themselves. Their tags would be pointless if people couldn't see them plastered somewhere. If you also don't want people to check your pulse and know you have friends too, you can simply not wear tags.

 

The other thing too is people disconnect and reconnect from servers all the time. You could join a server with say 20 people and expect to find some action in Cherno, but without disconnection/connection messages, and a player list, you may soon find yourself bored out of your wits expecting some PVP only to realize that you're the only player on the server.

 

If you don't want to know about player lists, you simply can just choose not to view them. But there are many legitimate reasons to know the player lists. Especially with people like me who play on private servers with a very tight knit community - we like to know who's online and who one another is for banter sakes, such as killing someone in a gun fight and finding them on TS and having a good old laugh about the gunfight.

[Valdenburg 200]

Guess it simply could be added as option for server owners.

[brzator47@gmail.com 524]

I'd be fine with no player list as long as there was a server pop indicator like low/mid/high. That way there would be no way to tell whether or not you're alone on the server.

[Kirby12352 67]

I prefer having the option of a player list available to me. Removing it is just punishing those who aren't so worried about "immersion".

 

Besides, there's already a fix for those who hate the player list. Don't press P.

[BeefBacon 1185]

I prefer having the option of a player list available to me. Removing it is just punishing those who aren't so worried about "immersion".

 

Besides, there's already a fix for those who hate the player list. Don't press P.

 

I don't think that's a very good argument. That's like saying "if you prefer 1pp but can only play on 3pp servers, just stay in 3rd person." There's no reason not to use an advantage if everyone else is using it.

 

So long as I can see roughly how many people are on the server and I can see if my friends are on the server and I can see my ping, I'm happy. That's not to say that I'm against the player list at all, but if ever it was going to be removed I think that's the bare minimum amount of information I'd need.

[Kirby12352 67]

I don't think that's a very good argument. That's like saying "if you prefer 1pp but can only play on 3pp servers, just stay in 3rd person." There's no reason not to use an advantage if everyone else is using it.

 

So long as I can see roughly how many people are on the server and I can see if my friends are on the server and I can see my ping, I'm happy. That's not to say that I'm against the player list at all, but if ever it was going to be removed I think that's the bare minimum amount of information I'd need.

 

 

That's true, but there's also no reason to remove something that only a small portion of the playerbase doesn't like. I obviously can't speak for everyone when it comes to whether they like it or not, but I just don't think most of the people who play DayZ are running around thinking, "Man, I wish the playerlist was removed. It really breaks my immersion."

 

Besides, I fail to see how a player list is more immersion breaking than checking your inventory. After all, you can't bring up a screen in real life showing yourself, all the clothes you have on, how much space you have to carry things, and whether or not you're hungry or thirsty or have a broken arm.

Edited October 18, 2015 by Kirby12352

[Valdenburg 200]

That's true, but there's also no reason to remove something that only a small portion of the playerbase doesn't like. I obviously can't speak for everyone when it comes to whether they like it or not, but I just don't think most of the people who play DayZ are running around thinking, "Man, I wish the playerlist was removed. It really breaks my immersion."

 

Besides, I fail to see how a player list is more immersion breaking than checking your inventory. After all, you can't bring up a screen in real life showing yourself, all the clothes you have on, how much space you have to carry things, and whether or not you're hungry or thirsty or have a broken arm.

Just make it a option for server owners, imo there is no reason not to. And ignoring minorities is not always a good idea ;)

[Kirby12352 67]

Just make it a option for server owners, imo there is no reason not to. And ignoring minorities is not always a good idea ;)

 

 

It is if it affects, and annoys, the majority. Game development is a business, and catering to a few people who don't like something when the rest of the people do isn't really the best idea. However, making it an option for server owners isn't a bad idea.

[BeefBacon 1185]

That's true, but there's also no reason to remove something that only a small portion of the playerbase doesn't like. I obviously can't speak for everyone when it comes to whether they like it or not, but I just don't think most of the people who play DayZ are running around thinking, "Man, I wish the playerlist was removed. It really breaks my immersion."

 

Besides, I fail to see how a player list is more immersion breaking than checking your inventory. After all, you can't bring up a screen in real life showing yourself, all the clothes you have on, how much space you have to carry things, and whether or not you're hungry or thirsty or have a broken arm.

 

Well I'm not in favour of removing the player list. I've never used it to gain some advantage, and I think anybody would be hard pressed to gain any advantage. I was just contributing to the discussion, suggesting that if the list was removed, there's still information I'd like to have access to.

 

The inventory thing is a little different. It's an abstract means of knowing what in real life you would already know. In real life I know if I've got a broken arm because it hurts, maybe I can see my arm doesn't look right, I can't move it properly, etc. Obviously you can't feel the pain of your character, so that information has to be displayed as an abstract. The same goes for inventory. Unless you want to have to actually look inside each of your pockets, you need an abstract system. Some games (I think the Forest is an example, there are probably others) have your inventory displayed as a sheet on the floor. No doubt other games have you actually look inside of your bag, and you can see each item. That is rarely practical, however, so -once again- something abstract is required. 

 

I think the issue that people have is that you can  attain information that you could never have access to in real life. I can't walk around and know exactly how many people are within 5 miles of me. Now I don't have a problem with the player list, as I've already said, but that seems to be the problem that other people have. I think it's fairly unimportant, but then I'm sure that there are many people that thing the 1pp 3pp debate is unimportant, so that shows how much I know.

Edited October 18, 2015 by BeefBacon

[Kirby12352 67]

Well I'm not in favour of removing the player list. I've never used it to gain some advantage, and I think anybody would be hard pressed to gain any advantage. I was just contributing to the discussion, suggesting that if the list was removed, there's still information I'd like to have access to.

 

The inventory thing is a little different. It's an abstract means of knowing what in real life you would already know. In real life I know if I've got a broken arm because it hurts, maybe I can see my arm doesn't look right, I can't move it properly, etc. Obviously you can't feel the pain of your character, so that information has to be displayed as an abstract. The same goes for inventory. Unless you want to have to actually look inside each of your pockets, you need an abstract system. Some games (I think the Forest is an example, there are probably others) have your inventory displayed as a sheet on the floor. No doubt other games have you actually look inside of your bag, and you can see each item. That is rarely practical, however, so -once again- something abstract is required. 

 

I think the issue that people have is that you can  attain information that you could never have access to in real life. I can't walk around and know exactly how many people are within 5 miles of me. Now I don't have a problem with the player list, as I've already said, but that seems to be the problem that other people have. I think it's fairly unimportant, but then I'm sure that there are many people that thing the 1pp 3pp debate is unimportant, so that shows how much I know.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, the advantage thing makes sense, even though any advantage it offers is somewhat small. But I was just using the inventory thing as an example of the things in game that could be considered immersion breaking. After all, if I cared about immersion, hearing the same bird and the same chain link fence noise over and over would be more of an immersion breaker to me than seeing people log out every once in a while. But that's just my opinion, and the devs will probably add more audio noises later on.

 

My point is, these two things don't really seem to bother the rest of the playerbase, otherwise threads about this topic would be much more common. If they bother some people, well that's too bad, but removing something other people enjoy having in the game just doesn't seem like a smart choice to me. However, if removing the player list and the alerts showing when people lose connection was a server option, then it would be a win win situation, and I would fully support that. But it's basically the same thing as people saying 3pp or 1pp should be removed because they don't like it. Removing one or the other would be punishing one side for the sake of the other, and I just don't support that.

[pilgrim* 3513]

..//.. But there are many legitimate reasons to know the player lists. Especially with people like me who play on private servers with a very tight knit community - we like to know who's online and who one another is for banter sakes, such as killing someone in a gun fight and finding them on TS and having a good old laugh about the gunfight.

 

Ahh - so on a tight knit community private server you can't tell who's playing from TS ?.... hmm, I always thought you could..

.. so can I ask what makes it tight knit then?

Because - live and learn - this certainly makes the TS and clan community less interesting than I thought it was :)

xx

Edited October 18, 2015 by pilgrim

[Roshi (DayZ) 396]

I don't think that's a very good argument. That's like saying "if you prefer 1pp but can only play on 3pp servers, just stay in 3rd person." There's no reason not to use an advantage if everyone else is using it.

Precisely. For the record I have no problem with seeing who's on the server when you choose a server to join.

[Roshi (DayZ) 396]

It is if it affects, and annoys, the majority.

I appreciate why you like the player list. I don't know why you're sure that you're speaking for the majority.

Edit: It may not have been raised as an idea because know one has thought about it. I'm trying to find ideas that are new (not the endless rehashing that you see in this forum) to discuss so I check that someone else hasn't suggested it before before posting.

Besides there are plenty of ideas that have been integrated into dayz that go against traditional game design, and that were not the most popular choice, that make it the game it is. They aren't always user friendly. IMHO the things that move dayz away from wall-to-wall PVP make the encounters with other players all the more memorable and intense. I think that not knowing if there are a ton of players on the server would make you play as if there were and would heighten the experience.

Edited October 18, 2015 by Roshi

[BCBasher 2465]

I'd like that personally.

 

On a side not with the clan tag thing it's funny how many hoppers log on and quickly off when they see BCBasher and BCJunior on an almost empty server fearing the dreaded BC clan not knowing we're friendly and just generally not good at or equipped bandwidth wise for PVP. 

Edited October 19, 2015 by BCBasher

[Kirby12352 67]

I appreciate why you like the player list. I don't know why you're sure that you're speaking for the majority.

Edit: It may not have been raised as an idea because know one has thought about it. I'm trying to find ideas that are new (not the endless rehashing that you see in this forum) to discuss so I check that someone else hasn't suggested it before before posting.

Besides there are plenty of ideas that have been integrated into dayz that go against traditional game design, and that were not the most popular choice, that make it the game it is. They aren't always user friendly. IMHO the things that move dayz away from wall-to-wall PVP make the encounters with other players all the more memorable and intense. I think that not knowing if there are a ton of players on the server would make you play as if there were and would heighten the experience.

 

 

I think that I speak for the majority because take the lack of zombies for example. That's something that bugs almost everyone, and people have been very outspoken about how they don't like it. Also, take the lack of survival aspects in the game. People have also been quite outspoken about that issue. I'm not exactly a DayZ veteran, but I've played for about a year, and when it comes to the player list, I've never seen anyone even mention it until now. If everyone hated it, there would be many more people complaining about it, like they do about other things they dislike about the game.

 

I'm not saying that your opinion is stupid or anything, but I think if the majority of people hated it, there would have been many more mentions of it. I'm fine with it being a server option, but it would annoy me if it were forced on the rest of the playerbase who like having a player list.

[Killawife 599]

Ive never played an online game where you couldn't see who's on the server and I can't see any advantages at all in removing the player list unless you want to hide the fact that you are on the server. Luckily there is already an easy cure for it, change your name. 

 

Myself, I would like the ping and desync to be shown again. I would also like to see a sidechat and debug monitor like in the mod but I guess I have to wait for that. This is a game, after all, not reality ans one fun aspect of a game is the ability to communicate with the people palying the same game as you. Totally absent right now, unless you count: "I'm friendly!  BLAM!" as communicating.

[OnionOfShame 138]

Even if the in-game player list was removed, you could still look at the one in the Steam overlay.

[Roshi (DayZ) 396]

Your name on the player list is largely irrelevant because in game there is no way of knowing who another player is without talking to them. The argument about clans needing the player list to spread their fame (mentioned earlier) seems a bit weak for this reason as well. The player list lets you know the number of players and, sure if you aren't using TS or Skype, if you're buddies are on. I get it for private servers - that makes sense.

As for getting rid of side chat - that was one of the best things the devs did IMO. Sure it's a game but there is a continuum of game features that can be implemented (or not) depending on the desired experience. I'd hate to see them go towards more 'gamey' features personally. You could use the argument "it's a game not a sim so add gamey features, not this realism stuff" to argue for things like a points system for killing other players. There are plenty of games that fill that niche, including the dayz clones. Dayz has something special because it doesn't go that way.

By the by, I've had plenty of good (if cautious) interactions with other players as well as some good firefights. The fact that the game doesn't force you one way or the other is what makes interaction with other players interesting. I think the reason for so much PVP is more to do with imbalance in game features during development that make it one of the main things people do for fun. Add in zombies with good mechanics and get the survivalist stuff right and hopefully we'll see other players as potential allies as well as potential threats.

Yeah Kirby I get where you're coming from but I still don't think that argument is completely coherent - zombies and survival elements are key foundations of the game so of course everyone is going to have strong feelings about them and will make a lot of fuss. We're talking about a relatively minor design feature here really so it wouldn't be a surprise if no one's brought it up before.

It may be that they keep the player list in - that's certainly not a game breaker for me - but I personally feel is an area where less is more. I totally get it that other people won't agree and that's cool, but I want to argue my corner.

[pilgrim* 3513]

I'd like that personally.

 

On a side not with the clan tag thing it's funny how many hoppers log on and quickly off when they see BCBasher and BCJunior on an almost empty server fearing the dreaded BC clan not knowing we're friendly and just generally not good at or equipped bandwidth wise for PVP. 

 

Yes - true-true, BCBasher who would not?  I've watched players log in and out every five mins. A Public server claims say 12 players, but in fact only 2 or 3 of them stay more than 10 minutes, the rest keep changing.

- and this is the problem.. I also Metagame 100% too because the info is there for me to see - and as soon as I notice a bunch of clan members show up it changes my mentality and my game totally. I probably change location, I change my plans and my routes, if a whole lot of one clan turn up I probably move out of that server, because they're all TS3 together, and there are not 1 million reasons why a clan turn's up in force on a public server on Friday night. They are out recruiting, right?.. nah..

 

Also, if I log in to a Public low-pop server in the evenings and the player list shows several single-clan members already in place, there's a  60-70%  chance I'm about to get kicked.

that changes my game too.

 

Some servers don't show the population before you log in. That's interesting.. if you are a survivor, why should you know how many other people are wandering around ?

 

For private servers and TS - There's no reason private server players and TS players should have a problem with "no player list onscreen", because "TS channel" and "private server" are 100% the same thing in the SA game, right?  So why is it  inconvenient for TS players to see their TS population on-screen while they play? Because an overlay messes your game up more than TS messes your ears up?

I don't follow this argument.  You can switch your TS listings on and off, too, right?

Do TS teams really have to look in the game screen to know who they can talk to on TS? Really ? I thought their tech was better than that. And I guess you have to set your ingame name to your TS name too, or else nobody gonna know who they shot anyway?

Wow - that would be almost like playing DayZ the way it was intended.

 

xx

Edited October 19, 2015 by pilgrim