Char Skills / Player Skills

[Noctoras 409]

Hi, another suggestion.

 

I will keep it short so noone needs to read a novel:

 

- Currently one of the biggest flaws is KOS. Not a fault of the players, but the result of too many guns and ammo and little to no other challenge. Thus, player interaction is pretty much non existant.

 

- Devs have announced that there will be a limited char development. Players will only be able to perform some actions faster, no real char differences possible.

 

- Now new features like work benches, electricity as well as existing aspects like medicine would open possibilities, where a char could learn skills one way or another. Individual skills not everyone can do by default. Possibilites could be by reading, by teaching and maybe by spawning with 1 or 2 random character skills.

 

- Players would hunt for "skills", not only for ammo. People would have incentives to team up, to talk again instead of going on a KOS rampage until bored.

 

- Then make guns a little rarer and zombies a tad more frequent and I'd be happy

 

[VahidkinG 192]

honestly i don't follow you.

Correct me: so you are suggesting a feature which is already planed to be implemented and which you already know that's planned and making the suggestion anyway ? or i am missing something?  :huh:

please explain more  :)

Edited September 7, 2015 by VahidkinG

[Noctoras 409]

Difference being:

 

- The planned char skill system will see everyone having basically the same skills (e.g. splint making) - only difference being that you will be able to do it faster, if you do it more often.

 

- what I propose are individual skills not everyone has (i.e. the skill to repair a car engine or as a surgeon to mend a bone fracture or to craft drugs from herbs or fluids, as an electrician to be able to get electricity to a house or else ....). Skills you could learn from books or by being teached from other people and maybe you could start up with two random one and can add other experience later. Looting for skills so to say and teaming up to get a little base / village working would make more sense then.

 

So the difference is, that I suggest different chars having a different skills set, not only being able to chop a tree in 30 seconds instead of 40.

Edited September 7, 2015 by Noctoras

[a_ruttle 199]

 

Difference being:

 

- The planned char skill system will see everyone having basically the same skills (e.g. splint making) - only difference being that you will be able to do it faster, if you do it more often.

 

- what I propose are individual skills not everyone has (i.e. the skill to repair a car engine or as a surgeon to mend a bone fracture or to craft drugs from herbs or fluids, as an electrician to be able to get electricity to a house or else ....). Skills you could learn from books or by being teached from other people and maybe you could start up with two random one and can add other experience later. Looting for skills so to say and teaming up to get a little base / village working would make more sense then.

 

So the difference is, that I suggest different chars having a different skills set, not only being able to chop a tree in 30 seconds instead of 40.

I agree whole heartedly, make the character something to get sentimental about and the game will just be 10x more enjoyable.

Edited September 7, 2015 by a_ruttle

[edwin3 74]

what I propose are individual skills not everyone has

 

wont happen, has been clearly stated. hope for mods

[Noctoras 409]

wont happen, has been clearly stated. hope for mods

 

Thank you for explaining to me, what I already wrote above - I have read what is currently in planning. :P     Seriously, if an item is planned, why not suggest modyfing said item somewhat. It's still up to the dev, if they implement stuff or not - no reason not to suggest it.

Edited September 7, 2015 by Noctoras

[VahidkinG 192]

Difference being:

 

- The planned char skill system will see everyone having basically the same skills (e.g. splint making) - only difference being that you will be able to do it faster, if you do it more often.

 

- what I propose are individual skills not everyone has (i.e. the skill to repair a car engine or as a surgeon to mend a bone fracture or to craft drugs from herbs or fluids, as an electrician to be able to get electricity to a house or else ....). Skills you could learn from books or by being teached from other people and maybe you could start up with two random one and can add other experience later. Looting for skills so to say and teaming up to get a little base / village working would make more sense then.

 

So the difference is, that I suggest different chars having a different skills set, not only being able to chop a tree in 30 seconds instead of 40.

First off, thanks for being nice to me (which today no one is, it seems  :D ) and not attacking me right away.

 

i do think it's a great idea, still it won't reach the goal it's intended. simply because, people can still learn this stuff by the books, people just deny others and try to find the books or even kill the book keepers (player who has the book, which is ofc unknown to others, potential for KoS)

i think its better to make it different so people start with two random skills and they can teach those skills, but there is no books. and even then, there would be another problem which is completely destroying Lone-Wolf game style. which in both cases, devs won't do it i guess, because they don't want to destroy different playstyles or give players an advantage or direct them to a specific play style. best chance of this being implemented is by mods.

 

Still, i guess that what they plan to do (faster animations and such) is gonna help with this KoS situation and not destroying lone wolfs completely. see, the idea behind this is simple, there are already players in squad that have a specific role in the squad, its almost the way every squad works (as far as i seen) so what about giving those guys a slight advantage, not a game changer, but still helps.

 

anyway, as i said, i really like the idea and surely i like to see it in a feature mod, but im not seeing this makes its way to vanilla dayz.

[edwin3 74]

its almost the way every squad works (as far as i seen) so what about giving those guys a slight advantage, not a game changer, but still helps.

 

i think with the way devs are going this will be possible, as softskills will allow the players to get better at stuff they do often. i believe the solution, that specialisation is mainly defined by the selected gear remains the better one, as e.g. the medic cant respawn at his squad leader.

 

dont get me wrong, i like the idea of classes as im a big fan of roleplay games, but i think it doesnt fit to dayz. e.g. breaking point i was first hyped about, but it quickliy got me bored.

 

@noctoras - no offense. im simply quiet sure that the devs wont change their opinion towards this.

 

greets

[Noctoras 409]

@noctoras - no offense. im simply quiet sure that the devs wont change their opinion towards this.

 

greets

 

True, although I love additions, which make it something different than a mere KOS frag fest - for me the map is too huge to have a fun PvP party and there is too little elements to gameplay other than shoot and run. But you're right, I don't hold my hopes up high either.

[lrp1984 199]

Difference being:

 

- The planned char skill system will see everyone having basically the same skills (e.g. splint making) - only difference being that you will be able to do it faster, if you do it more often.

 

- what I propose are individual skills not everyone has (i.e. the skill to repair a car engine or as a surgeon to mend a bone fracture or to craft drugs from herbs or fluids, as an electrician to be able to get electricity to a house or else ....). Skills you could learn from books or by being teached from other people and maybe you could start up with two random one and can add other experience later. Looting for skills so to say and teaming up to get a little base / village working would make more sense then.

 

So the difference is, that I suggest different chars having a different skills set, not only being able to chop a tree in 30 seconds instead of 40.

 

If I'm honest I think certain skills should be picked at character creation, and perhaps others honed or improved during game-play. Your character spawns as an adult, and therefore has a past behind them.

 

Past careers to choose from could be; Soldier, Nurse/Doctor, Mechanic, Farmer, Engineer, Pilot (for when they add flight), Teacher, Office Worker, Unemployed bum and maybe a few more

 

Each past career would effect the skills you have in game, and how proficient you are with them. I would like to see a system where each career takes a set amount of "survivor" points to use. Survivor points can be earned by how many hours you survive in-game on a particular character. Everyone starts as an unemployed bum with just base skills. If you die in less than an hour of spawning, you get points deducted.

[byrgesen 1341]

I agree whole hearted that we need some kind of softskills (NOT plain MMO leveling skills) badly and as far as i know the devs have already said they want it aswell, so thats good news :) I kinda agree with the idea of giving "random" or selective skills to players, so not everyone has the same skills, but you should NOT be able to choose between them.

On the other hand, can you "fix" KOS? Not really. Its a player condition, and no matter what the developers throw at the game, unless they force PVE elements on EVERYBODY, people will still KOS. Especially if they have hard earned soft skills to protect aswell.

In fact i think skills like that will encourage KOS even more, because people will have more reasons to keep that specific char alive and most players are simply to scared of loosing there stuff, to do any kind of player interaction.

 

In a sandbox game, the majority will choose the "easy" play style, and theres nothing easier then to shoot everything that moves and never talk to anyone you dont know, in this game.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Byrgesen

[scriptfactory 620]

On the other hand, can you "fix" KOS? Not really. Its a player condition, and no matter what the developers throw at the game, unless they force PVE elements on EVERYBODY, people will still KOS. Especially if they have hard earned soft skills to protect aswell. In fact i think skills like that will encourage KOS even more, because people will have more reasons to keep that specific char alive and most players are simply to scared of loosing there stuff, to do any kind of player interaction.

 

In a sandbox game, the majority will choose the "easy" play style, and theres nothing easier then to shoot everything that moves and never talk to anyone you dont know, in this game.

 

A sandbox game doesn't mean there are no rules. It just means there is no linear path to game completion.

 

DayZ is the worst example of KoS on the market since it isn't close to being finished. I don't think skills alone will reduce KoS but the KoS "problem" can most definitely be "solved". By "solved", I mean, reduced to reasonable levels. There are many different ways to accomplish this (e.g. global text chat, character progression, PvE distractions) but for working examples look at almost any Arma 3 mod (e.g. BP, Exile, Overpoch, 2017, etc.)

[byrgesen 1341]

A sandbox game doesn't mean there are no rules. It just means there is no linear path to game completion.

 

DayZ is the worst example of KoS on the market since it isn't close to being finished. I don't think skills alone will reduce KoS but the KoS "problem" can most definitely be "solved". By "solved", I mean, reduced to reasonable levels. There are many different ways to accomplish this (e.g. global text chat, character progression, PvE distractions) but for working examples look at almost any Arma 3 mod (e.g. BP, Exile, Overpoch, 2017, etc.)

 

Lol, you cant seriously mean that KOS is "solved" in either of the mods you mention there? BP, Exile and Overpoch has the exact same level of KOS as standalone, if not higher and thats exactly why i dont play them anymore. Thoose mods are all about spawn, get gear, build a base and kill everything that moves.

You cant even spawn in Exile, without being in a firefight within minutes and ive yet to find a single person who actually wants to talk rather then shoot.

 

I never said there are no rules in sandbox, what i ment is sandbox is essentially a tool to create the game you want, Arma is a prime example of this. (as you also pointed out)

DayZ SA will be a tool in the same sense, we have freedom to do "as we please" and with that freedom comes easy playstyles (bandits/KOS) and hard playstyles (hero/medic).

 

What i ment was, as long as people are free to do what they want and as long as Bohemia gives us more reasons to invest in our character, the KOS will stay as it is or become worse.

If nobody wants to take the chance of talking with a fresh spawn now, because of a shiny rifle, imagine what they will do when they have softskills, which takes many more hours to train up?

If theres no "punishment" for killing people, why stop doing it?

 

All im saying is, players in general wants to take as little risk as possible, especially in a game with permadeath and thats the root of this problem really.

[scriptfactory 620]

Sorry for my post making it seem like I totally disagree with you. I typed it on the tram to work this morning. xD I actually agree with many of your points.

 

Lol, you cant seriously mean that KOS is "solved" in either of the mods you mention there? BP, Exile and Overpoch has the exact same level of KOS as standalone, if not higher and thats exactly why i dont play them anymore. Thoose mods are all about spawn, get gear, build a base and kill everything that moves.

 

You cant even spawn in Exile, without being in a firefight within minutes and ive yet to find a single person who actually wants to talk rather then shoot.

 

I've played a loooooot of BP and Exile. Even casuals seem to have no problem with KoS as it is a part of the game and there is some form of character progression and persistence. I love Exile because of the whole economy. Even if I get killed over and over I still feel like I am making progress. When global text chat is available I've seen players group together and offer poptab bounties to kill certain players on the server.

 

Check out http://theolddogs.net/. They have so many AI missions and the majority of players seem to focus on those while killing players only as a secondary objective. I killed one dude by accident on that server and through the magic that is global chat we ended up becoming Steam friends together and playing on a regular basis.

 

What i ment was, as long as people are free to do what they want and as long as Bohemia gives us more reasons to invest in our character, the KOS will stay as it is or become worse. If nobody wants to take the chance of talking with a fresh spawn now, because of a shiny rifle, imagine what they will do when they have softskills, which takes many more hours to train up?

 

If theres no "punishment" for killing people, why stop doing it?

 

All im saying is, players in general wants to take as little risk as possible, especially in a game with permadeath and thats the root of this problem really.

 

I agree with you here. Skills alone will not decrease KoS. But I feel a game mechanic for punishment is not necessary. Character progression (in addition to other game mechanics) will make people care less about getting KoSed. Some form of character persistence (e.g. safehouses or an in-game economy) will make KoS seem like a mild annoyance (which is why most KoSers are against it).

[Noctoras 409]

No, it's not an ant-KOS-Wunderwaffe.

 

But maybe if you can gain more from a player than a weapon, e.g. he can teach you a skill, you have maybe reasons to talk or team up instead of shoot and be done with it. I don't even think it is necessary that you keep your skills upon perma death. Actually I am rather against it, since you'd soon be stuffed with all knowledge available.

 

Gaining skills would be just another sandbox goal for a char - and could be a real helpful one at that, if devs would integrate individual skills for players. The way it currently is planned, that you will only be able to perform an action faster is rather a waste in my opinion. People who roam a map the size of chernarus for hours just to find someone to kill on sight won't really care if they need 30 or 40 seconds to chop a tree. Hermits won't care either, since they have all the time in the world.

Character skills are cool, but I think they need to be individual, i.e. you can have, learn from a book or get teached a skill that other players do not have,

[byrgesen 1341]

Sorry for my post making it seem like I totally disagree with you. I typed it on the tram to work this morning. xD I actually agree with many of your points.

 

 

I've played a loooooot of BP and Exile. Even casuals seem to have no problem with KoS as it is a part of the game and there is some form of character progression and persistence. I love Exile because of the whole economy. Even if I get killed over and over I still feel like I am making progress. When global text chat is available I've seen players group together and offer poptab bounties to kill certain players on the server.

 

Check out http://theolddogs.net/. They have so many AI missions and the majority of players seem to focus on those while killing players only as a secondary objective. I killed one dude by accident on that server and through the magic that is global chat we ended up becoming Steam friends together and playing on a regular basis.

 

Always loved servers like that, but they are few and far between ;) Might check it out, not sure if my BP/Exile days are over though.

 

I agree with you here. Skills alone will not decrease KoS. But I feel a game mechanic for punishment is not necessary. Character progression (in addition to other game mechanics) will make people care less about getting KoSed. Some form of character persistence (e.g. safehouses or an in-game economy) will make KoS seem like a mild annoyance (which is why most KoSers are against it).

 

True, persistence will make a big difference, especially when barricading comes into play. Tbh tents, vehicles and barrels arent enough, for me at least.

I guess im gonna have to see it before i believe it :) And i am of course talking about playing on your everyday average DayZ public server, when i say stuff like i did in the previous posts here, just in case it wasnt obvious hehe.

 

Its a difficult topic....

I truly love the perma death aspect of the game and the fact that you can loose everything in the blink of an eye, but at the same time, it would be really nice to not loose all your stuff everytime you try to trust people or help out another player :)

I dont know the "perfect solution", dont even know if it excists, but many other games have tried before DayZ and not quite hit it right. I hope the devs look at the other games and take notes, to try and make DayZ different. It feels like they do exactly that tbh.