Gun Sway Poll

[MAK90 8]

Sway isn't bad at all currently, I think it could even use more, especially after sprinting all over the place. Stances should affect it greater though, with prone reducing it significantly.

Hold breath button should work better as well to stabilize it.

The fuck you talking about, the sway isn't bad? You obviously don't have experience with guns. Try this: get yourself out of breath and grab a broom or something you think is the weight of a gun and aim it like it's a gun. You don't see the wacky sway that this game apparently thinks is necessary.

[vfxtodd 125]

i think when you're prone you should have very little sway. Hopefully at some point we should be able to use an object, like a rock or our backpack to lay the gun on and steady it. Since this is a survival game, creating makeshift tools is part of the experience. Hence being able to use an object to steady our guns when prone.

Edited June 6, 2015 by BulletGarden

[soapy33@live.com 24]

Anyone who says the current sway is to easy, or realistic never touched a firearm in their life, let alone fire one.

Edited June 6, 2015 by Barks

[Avant-Garde 229]

In my opinion gun sway should be really noticeable, not for realism but to make guns harder to use and thus make players think twice before shooting. I voted for random pattern but I would change if I could. If it has a predictable pattern you can get good at it and its a skill to develop, so I think it should be hard to master (complex pattern), but possible so we get to see some really skilled long range shooters. But it MUST require great skill in my opinion, otherwise players will still be loot piñatas in the eyes of an armed man.

 

By me, this game shifts its focus to melee combat, and make firearms a pain in the ass to use and maintain. Enough with all these trigger happy lads out there, doesn't even make sense that in a zombie apocalypse people go out shooting each other and zeds as if there is no tomorrow, and with the shooting skill of a veteran US marine.

Edited June 6, 2015 by Avant-Garde

[rscl 11]

In a game design, the only point of smth being "realistic" is to provide enough level of immersion, which in case of gun sway is medicore thing very easy to achieve.

Still, going back to the "realism" thingy - current sway has nothing to do with realism - its another story.

What is realy important with every feature game developer is creating and tuning is its impact on the GAMEPLAY itself.

This is the jewl in the crown and here should put 99% of focus - i'm speaking this as a game dev myself.

 

That being said I must point out that current gun sway has just terrible impact on gameplay.

Ridiculous sway, appearing after "few steps", which makes aiming even on medium ranges nearly impossible (and aiming in close ranges precisely either) has only cons.

Its cutting sooo many opportunites for players interactions, you can just guess how many times ppl didn't engaged into a firefight because of gun sway, just sadly and hopelessly watching other players dissappearing in the treeline or behind the horizont. 

 

Yes this game is about players interactions (otherwise dayz wouldnt be such a succesfull mod, more succesful would be some singleplayer zombie games) and by this I mean in most cases shooting eachother (so surprising in a game where all the time you are carring a gun in your hands huh ?). - and promoting/ecouraging players interaction should be one of the biggest devs goal (who likes to run on full servers seeing noone for few hours ?)

 

Somehow on ArmaII DayZ Mod, sway wasn't an issue (still wasnt perfect because pattern wasnt totally random - but overall was just great in comparism to SA), it was a good balance between realism/immersion/millsim/adding some game complexity param versus gameplay factor. I have no idea what reasoning is behind to keep sway like we have now in SA. Would be cool to hear from devs their point of view here and their argumentation.

 

Same rules I mentioned above applies to other things in game - for example ridiculous aimed thru scope mosin recoil which prevents from seeing bullets impact spots etc. etc.

Hopefully SA will turn into right direction until then I will have to enjoy DayZ experiance in... DayZero mod :)

[rustybridges 1]

Sway shouldn't be nearly as extreme as it currently is, but it also shouldn't be the only thing that throws off your aim. When shooting, it's common to have the gun shake a little bit due to the natural unsteadiness of the human hand. For example, try pointing at one specific spot on your wall with your index finger and watch how the tip moves. Now, imagine how much that little movement translates to a target out in a field 300m away. Having a mechanic that simulates the unpredictable wobble that you get when aiming down your sights or down your scope would make it reasonable to tone down the sway to an up-down motion with a brief pause between breaths (unless exhausted) that allows for the shooter to take the shot. Having a wobble and an up-down sway would make aiming difficult but also reasonable.

[rybec 339]

...brief pause between breaths (unless exhausted) that allows for the shooter to take the shot.

I really like the idea of the bottom of an exhale being when everyone tries to shoot.

[vfxtodd 125]

I believe guns should be no more difficult to use then real guns, if anything. I don't think it's good for the game to limit the use of any weapon, tool, or item simply because this is a zombie apocalypse. I've never survived an actual zombie apocalypse. Have you?

The game is in alpha. Oh, there's that dreaded word again....alpha! Either accept it or move on. There's been way too much whining about DayZ being in alpha in these forums.

I like how DayZ is being developed. But it is an alpha so I expect some broken mechanics etc. DayZ is in the testing phase. That's what a game in alpha means. Sorry if you feel ignored because DayZ isn't playing like a complete game. Cry to your mom, please. Let her hear the whining. It's gotten old hearing it here.

Here are a few things (That's "few" as in not everything, in case you're not sure.) that I'd like to see in DayZ in its FINAL form:

1. More vehicles

2. Crazier zombies

3. More company owned servers. (Rented servers have some horrible admins who kick you if you're too good or not their friend. Which is fine if there are plenty of company owned servers.)

4. Spawns that move you around the whole of Chenaraus. Not the same spots every day. Which leads to wimps camping out to KOS new spawns.

5. Loot that moves around to keep players on their toes. It is an apocalypse so yes there would be difficulties.

6. A live means of reporting hackers to admins. Maybe a typed word that would trigger an alert to admins who may be online at the time. (Not sure if this would work. Just a thought. )

7. A way to add a server to my Favorites when I'm already in the game. Sometimes I randomly pick servers from the list hoping it will be a good one. When I play I can see if my experience on that server is good. Many times I've looked in History and I don't see the server I last played. Why this happens, I couldn't say. Anyway, it's just an idea.

These are just a few ideas. My ideas aren't better then yours. They're just ideas.

Cheers.

Edited June 6, 2015 by BulletGarden

[Avant-Garde 229]

I believe guns should be no more difficult to use then real guns, if anything. I don't think it's good for the game to limit the use of any weapon, tool, or item simply because this is a zombie apocalypse. I've never survived an actual zombie apocalypse. Have you?

The game is in alpha. Oh, there's that dreaded word again....alpha! Either accept it or move on. There's been way too much whining about DayZ being in alpha in these forums.

I like how DayZ is being developed. But it is an alpha so I expect some broken mechanics etc. DayZ is in the testing phase. That's what a game in alpha means. Sorry if you feel ignored because DayZ isn't playing like a complete game. Cry to your mom, please. Let her hear the whining. It's gotten old hearing it here.

Here are a few things (That's "few" as in not everything, in case you're not sure.) that I'd like to see in DayZ in its FINAL form:

1. More vehicles

2. Crazier zombies

3. More company owned servers. (Rented servers have some horrible admins who kick you if you're too good or not their friend. Which is fine if there are plenty of company owned servers.)

4. Spawns that move you around the whole of Chenaraus. Not the same spots every day. Which leads to wimps camping out to KOS new spawns.

5. Loot that moves around to keep players on their toes. It is an apocalypse so yes there would be difficulties.

6. A live means of reporting hackers to admins. Maybe a typed word that would trigger an alert to admins who may be online at the time. (Not sure if this would work. Just a thought. )

7. A way to add a server to my Favorites when I'm already in the game. Sometimes I randomly pick servers from the list hoping it will be a good one. When I play I can see if my experience on that server is good. Many times I've looked in History and I don't see the server I last played. Why this happens, I couldn't say. Anyway, it's just an idea.

These are just a few ideas. My ideas aren't better then yours. They're just ideas.

Cheers.

You make a good point about the apocalypse. When I posted that I was thinking more on the fact that people kill each other like crazy in this game, and I do believe that this game's objective is to be a somewhat realistic apocalypse simulator, not Quake 5:Huge-Arena-With-Shitty-Cluncky-Controls hehe

 

So, how to avoid this becoming deathmatch simulator? Maybe adding more risk in killing other survivors, we have many ways to archive this: crazier zombies as you say could be one, aim sway is another, ammo rarity and so on.. So agree with you, but I also think sway is a cool thing. Its one more thing to master in the game, this only makes the gameplay richer, rewarding and interesting in my opinion.

DayZ as it stands its easy as fuck to kill people. WAY to easy to land shots and the reward is HUGE. I mean, if not for a moral reason, you have absolutely NO reason not to kill someone.

 

I would add an 8th point to your list that is decent, realistic and complex melee mechanics, so we have another skill to master and more viable gameplay options. There is no point in being a good brawler at the moment, this makes me so sad its not even funny

Edited June 7, 2015 by Avant-Garde

[Katana67 2907]

Random anything is unacceptable. DayZ is, in part, a game predicated upon giving the player the ability to control (or not) his/her own input into the world. If you're throwing hyper-random sway on top of all the other things the player has to manage, you're removing a key element of skillful input. I discourage the use of the word "skill" because it can be applied in a variety of contexts and isn't a zero-sum concept. But, yes.

 

If sway is predictable and controllable, it is a skill that can be mastered. If it's random, it's a dice roll.

 

And it's really odd to see people say "make it harder for difficulty's sake," it's just as ludicrous as "make it so because of realism."

 

From a realistic standpoint, the weapon sway we have now is silly. I'm not drunkenly sloshing my muzzle from side to side after sprinting for 100m. I'm also not yanking my muzzle from random point to random point (a la DayZ mod) after having ran a few yards.

 

Weapon sway should really only factor in with magnified optics, certainly not iron sights and unmagnified optics. Yes, it should be there, but it shouldn't be so drastic as to throw off a shot at reasonable ranges (i.e. within 100m).

 

Likewise, weapon sway should be drastically reduced if...

- The player crouches

- The player prones

- The player has a bipod deployed

 

Instead of making the mere act of firing a weapon inconceivably difficult and cumbersome, why don't we encourage measures that place more weight on the act of firing a weapon? Meaning zombie hordes that will jump you if you fire your weapon in an inopportune locale, meaning rarer ammunition, a meaningful weapon maintenance mechanic, etc.

 

I never understood why people want to hamper the gunplay in DayZ just to discourage banditry (which isn't in and of itself bad).

Edited June 7, 2015 by Katana67

[vfxtodd 125]

Avant-Garde,

I think a good way to deal with sway is to incorporate bullet drop more. Increase bullet drop the farther the shooter is from the target. Increasing sway more then it is now would render the weapon almost useless except for close quarter combat. Limiting combat to close quarters would definitely reduce sales of the game. Yes, this is an apocalypse survival game, but in reality people would be armed to the teeth. Wouldn't you gather up as many weapons as you could in a real apocalypse? I know I would.

I think there is one thing many people in the forums aren't considering when it comes to DayZ development or the development of any game of this size. And that is, that there will be a lot of adjustments to game after its release. Until the devs see the game being played by the general public, and hear the voices of their wants and needs, they won't stop making changes until the majority of players are happy. And some of the changes that may come may piss off a few players. That's tough. Because that's how games are developed.

There are untold thousands of people who haven't touched, and won't touch DayZ until it's released. And their voices and views are just as valid as ours. That's why I try to stay flexible regarding DayZ. Sadly, I wouldn't be surprised if some people in the forums think their opinions should be treated as special because they were here "in the beginning". But, that's in the future.

In conclusion, your ideas and my ideas may come and go during the development of DayZ. But, I'm hopeful that DayZ will turn out to be one of the better games I've played when it's released. At least I'm hoping so. The best we can do is offer the devs our experiences as alpha testers and beta testers in the meantime. Then cross our fingers and pray.

Edited June 7, 2015 by BulletGarden