Persistence to be disabled on next stable update

[Bororm 1156]

I think they made a mistake trying to do persistence and the CLE at the same time with .55.  So turning it off makes sense to me, as it really wasn't ready yet.

 

This patch seems like they're trying in a way to get things back on track, and maybe appeal to all the folk that got turned off again.  It'll be determined by how the loot actually is, but if they can provide a higher performance experience (turning off zombies) and introduce people to the CLE in a way that makes more sense it'll be a good thing.

 

I think the CLE and persistence should have been done very early in development personally, so that we could have avoided this problem at this point.  That's my only gripe with the development of the SA, is that they choose to do things in a way that isn't convenient for us/isn't smooth.  It makes sense, because they don't care about us as they shouldn't, but it would make things run a lot smoother if they'd plan better.  There is just an overall sense that they don't plan things out very well in general.

[Tiger205 48]

So now that the game was FINALLY starting to shape up they pull this dick move? gg Bohemia, gg. Time to forget about this "game" for another half a year.

[ebrim 998]

So now that the game was FINALLY starting to shape up they pull this dick move? gg Bohemia, gg. Time to forget about this "game" for another half a year.

 

Why is that a bad thing? Come back in half a year and we'll be exhaustedly getting into our ladas to drive back to base after burning our stamina sprinting across a field running away from cholera-infected fresh spawns armed with improvised spears. :) It might be an ugly process getting there and nobody is forcing you to go through that save yourself the headache.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Ebrim

[Jesterarts 85]

It's considered pretty poor practice to push updates to a stable branch of ANY software if it requires you to disable a feature even half as important. Same really goes for hordes & the disabling of zombies, honestly.

This comment. Much lolz.

So in your eyes, they should keep the CLE system on for all stable updates, even though it's the cause of global performance issues that prevent other features being tested properly?

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Just to put some perspective on that brain fart.

Let say you are developing a project management software, and the login screen is critically bugged preventing access to the rest of the features. Are you suggesting that in your 'experience', it would be bad practice to remove the login screen while it's being worked on so that the testing group is able to test the other features in the mean-time?

What they are doing makes absolute sense. At the moment they have identified that the CLE and zombie AI is the cause of the issues everyone is seeing and struggling with. They know that both are not working as they should and need to be fixed. So now they are removing those factors, in order to test the other features and unmask any specific issues with those under ideal circumstances.

They may even find that the architecture they designed for the CLE will never work as planned and have to start again. Sometimes it makes more sense to pull the pin on an approach that is not working and start again.

The more you 'change' and 'fix' a piece of code, the less optimised it becomes and more issues arise.

I can't comment on the actual state of the code with DayZ, but as far as pulling the feature out for now to allow the rest of the features and modules to me tested, makes complete sense as it speeds up the dev process.

[mercules 1290]

 To see if stuff is respawning properly, they can look at the logs - anything that has been picked up should trigger an item spawning.

 

If you go back and read through my post I never mentioned respawning. I believe they are planning on checking SPAWNING, which will, as you so kindly pointed out, be happening a lot with server restarts every 4 hours or whatever the admin sets up and should give them tons of data. You can't tell if REspawn is working correctly if you are unsure even the initial spawn was working the way you wanted it in the first place. 

 

So now that the game was FINALLY starting to shape up they pull this dick move? gg Bohemia, gg. Time to forget about this "game" for another half a year.

I'm sure I and everyone else will miss you just as much as the last time you took a break. 

[Beizs 186]

This comment. Much lolz.

So in your eyes, they should keep the CLE system on for all stable updates, even though it's the cause of global performance issues that prevent other features being tested properly?

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Just to put some perspective on that brain fart.

Let say you are developing a project management software, and the login screen is critically bugged preventing access to the rest of the features. Are you suggesting that in your 'experience', it would be bad practice to remove the login screen while it's being worked on so that the testing group is able to test the other features in the mean-time?

What they are doing makes absolute sense. At the moment they have identified that the CLE and zombie AI is the cause of the issues everyone is seeing and struggling with. They know that both are not working as they should and need to be fixed. So now they are removing those factors, in order to test the other features and unmask any specific issues with those under ideal circumstances.

They may even find that the architecture they designed for the CLE will never work as planned and have to start again. Sometimes it makes more sense to pull the pin on an approach that is not working and start again.

The more you 'change' and 'fix' a piece of code, the less optimised it becomes and more issues arise.

I can't comment on the actual state of the code with DayZ, but as far as pulling the feature out for now to allow the rest of the features and modules to me tested, makes complete sense as it speeds up the dev process.

 

They're not disabling the CLE. They're disabling persistence, which works fine, to shoehorn in the CLE. So... Yeah.

 

If you go back and read through my post I never mentioned respawning. I believe they are planning on checking SPAWNING, which will, as you so kindly pointed out, be happening a lot with server restarts every 4 hours or whatever the admin sets up and should give them tons of data. You can't tell if REspawn is working correctly if you are unsure even the initial spawn was working the way you wanted it in the first place. 

 

Again, they'll learn nothing. Initial spawn testing is piss easy. Just set up an internal server, set it to be verbose in the logs and reset it after completing initialization. Rinse and repeat. There you go. All the data you could possibly want on how loot spawns on initialization. So no, that's not anything to do with it.

 

 

I think they made a mistake trying to do persistence and the CLE at the same time with .55.  So turning it off makes sense to me, as it really wasn't ready yet.

 

This patch seems like they're trying in a way to get things back on track, and maybe appeal to all the folk that got turned off again.  It'll be determined by how the loot actually is, but if they can provide a higher performance experience (turning off zombies) and introduce people to the CLE in a way that makes more sense it'll be a good thing.

 

I think the CLE and persistence should have been done very early in development personally, so that we could have avoided this problem at this point.  That's my only gripe with the development of the SA, is that they choose to do things in a way that isn't convenient for us/isn't smooth.  It makes sense, because they don't care about us as they shouldn't, but it would make things run a lot smoother if they'd plan better.  There is just an overall sense that they don't plan things out very well in general.

 

 

I agree with your first point. However, I can't quite agree with the rest, honestly.

 

The issue is despawning of items when it comes to lootsplosions, etc. That's not an issue with the persistence, but an issue with the CLE - the CLE should be handling the despawning of loot. The fact that lootsplosions happen is proof that persistence is working as it should.

 

I don't think that there's any way, at this point, they can introduce people to the CLE without any issues. Disabling persistence, which is a core aspect of this game and is really required for the CLE to work properly, is definitely not the way to go about it. Once they enable persistence, the CLE will almost definitely work pretty differently, meaning that people will have to get used to it twice over.

 

Honestly, I do agree that persistence and the CLE, as pretty funamental parts of the game, should have been focused on and finished very early in development. From a coding perspective, neither should be that difficult to get working (also, once the CLE is finished, along with duping all but removed from the game, it'd be pretty easy to avoid needing to do wipes constantly). The main issue would be optimization and regions, though both, again, shouldn't take a whole lot of time. They might be designing it in a way that I'm not thinking of, but really, it's just a loot table with locations, timers, weighting and regular checks. Persistence is saving the servers loot to a file, fundamentally. Sure, stability etc requires more, but there's not really any reason I can see, from the outside, that they should have left it this long.

 

Don't get me wrong. I think they're doing really, really well with the development of the game in general. It's just smaller things like this, ordering and PR especially, that bug me about it.

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

Just one last note, I don't see why they couldn't simply disable loose item persistence and leave the rest enabled (except maybe helis & police cars so, basically, tents, vehicles & barrels). Wouldn't interfere with the CLE (still has the issue of changing how the CLE works on enabling it again) and wouldn't be as shitty for gameplay.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Beizs

[Red_Ensign 990]

the people who take the day off work to horde all the trucks the day after a reset are all mad.

 

what did all you people complaining do before tents?  yeah that 90% of your time playing this...

[Jesterarts 85]

They're not disabling the CLE. They're disabling persistence, which works fine, to shoehorn in the CLE. So... Yeah.

 

 

Persistance, CLE, whatever. Moral is if something is causing significant performance issues and it not performing as expected expected, it makes sense to removed it so testing can focus on the rest.

And persistence works fine? Yeah, aside from crashing servers and causing various other performance issues. Works tip top. ;)

Edited May 28, 2015 by Jesterarts

[Coheed_IV 381]

I know an Internet forum is all about extremes, so there is a lot of "it's working." or "it's not working.". But, this is a process.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Coheed_IV

[UKA Harrysoon 67]

 Whats the friggin point if nothing will stay.... Jesus Christ already with this... Fix the F'in problem !  F'in Years now.... My God already

 

They are fixing it...

 

I'd rather they remove it and concentrate on it to iron out issues, then stick it in and we have a half arsed persistence system in place, kinda like the loot system with 0.55.

[Beizs 186]

Persistance, CLE, whatever. Moral is if something is causing significant performance issues and it not performing as expected expected, it makes sense to removed it so testing can focus on the rest.

And persistence works fine? Yeah, aside from crashing servers and causing various other performance issues. Works tip top. ;)

 

Persistence its self hasn't been linked to any performance issues.

 

Lootsplosions have been known to cause problems, but they've not been that bad in a fair while. Again though, the issue there is despawning items, not persistence.

 

Persistence and the CLE aren't interchangeable at all. The fact that you don't see that kind of makes me inclined to ignore your post entirely.

 

The performance issues they were talking about were coming from infected AI. They're removing persistence to 'work on loot'. The issue with this is that the CLE doesn't work. Even without persistence on, it'll not work well. Once they turn it back on in the future, it'll completely change how it works again. Disabling persistence isn't a good idea.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Beizs

[Tiger205 48]

Why is that a bad thing? Come back in half a year and we'll be exhaustedly getting into our ladas to drive back to base after burning our stamina sprinting across a field running away from cholera-infected fresh spawns armed with improvised spears. :) It might be an ugly process getting there and nobody is forcing you to go through that save yourself the headache.

It's not about waiting but about the game finally shaping up so it can be actually played and then suddenly blam. I'm forced again to find something else to play even though I wanted to play DayZ. If I didn't want to play DayZ then I wouldn't even care.

 

I'm sure I and everyone else will miss you just as much as the last time you took a break. 

I'm sure I don't fucking care about some internet retard who doesn't even know what he's talking about.

[blacklabel79 949]

 

I'm forced again to find something else to play even though I wanted to play DayZ.

 

lets see....summer is approaching so you could go out and do something against those pouches or the creeping lonlyness....or just enjoi the sun ?

[Grimey Rick 3417]

lets see....summer is approaching so you could go out and do something against those pouches or the creeping lonlyness....or just enjoi the sun ?

Lol, this. So much.

/thread

[Beizs 186]

Lol, this. So much.

/thread

 

Not quite /thread. I don't mind taking a break from DayZ, personally. My concern is more what's better for the development of the game, but yeah.

 

Then again, it's kinda /forum.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Beizs

[Grimey Rick 3417]

Not quite /thread. I don't mind taking a break from DayZ, personally. My concern is more what's better for the development of the game, but yeah.

Then again, it's kinda /forum.

Sir, I've been where you are. I gave up months ago. The development of this game is, and has always been... special? It's easier just to stop caring, play and post every now and then, and just see how it turns out in 1.0.

[Jesterarts 85]

Persistence its self hasn't been linked to any performance issues.

 

Lootsplosions have been known to cause problems, but they've not been that bad in a fair while. Again though, the issue there is despawning items, not persistence.

 

Persistence and the CLE aren't interchangeable at all. The fact that you don't see that kind of makes me inclined to ignore your post entirely.

 

The performance issues they were talking about were coming from infected AI. They're removing persistence to 'work on loot'. The issue with this is that the CLE doesn't work. Even without persistence on, it'll not work well. Once they turn it back on in the future, it'll completely change how it works again. Disabling persistence isn't a good idea.

 

Yet, you don't. Which makes me inclined to assume you need a hobby.

My concern with your one-eyed view of the world is you assume that you know better than anyone not agreeing with your opinion and also the DayZ dev team.

Given this, I hope you are able to share your credentials and experience in software and game development.

Also, best to send in your resume to the DayZ team. Given you know so much more than many others and have much better idea of what is best practice and what isn't in software dev, you single handedly could influence this game to be completed sooner than anyone can imagine.

Probably no point in continuing to try and reason with you as you're being unreasonable with your opinion, but the fact of the matter is that if persistence is being turned off, there is a reason for it that may or many not be obvious to the layman.

[Balflears 3]

No persistence no party. Here we never make progress, but let's go back. The truth is that the developers do not know where to put their hands. Dayz needs of professional developers and non-developers who have to open the school books for solving "small" problems. 3,000,000 copies sells x 28 euro. Are exactly 84,000,000. What they did with that money? They bought the house and the ferrari? Or they have had too much beer? All that we have on Dayz we must say thanks to bohemia, because it was for our developers at this point we would not have even the cola ingame.

I will not say more because I could become bad. Fuck CLE. It is just an excuse because they do not know how to solve problems.

Edited June 12, 2015 by Balflears

[vfxtodd 125]

Last night was a disappointing experience for me. Every server I played on was not only extremely laggy but they crashed after 15-20 minutes of gameplay. I ended up playing with two different characters. Was that because of persistence being disabled? I don't know.

But I was annoyed when for the first time I found a Longhorn on my own, only to have the server go down. I don't believe in server hopping, but last night I had no choice since each server I played on went down at some point.

I'm hoping that when I jump on DayZ tonight I'll find my character with the Longhorn. I'm not a KOS type player. But it would be nice to be able to celebrate having a Longhorn I found by myself. I've played over 130 hours. And I found my first Longhorn. So you can probably relate to my experience.

Btw, I was shot by a couple KOS retards. Thankfully I was able to get away. I've lost a lot of blood so I hope to avoid zombies until I'm healthy again.