About the next coming camera angle

[pilgrim* 3514]

So you are saying since everyone has the option to look over walls it is OK?

 

I love that argument....everyone else is doing it so it's alright.  That reasoning doesn't work in the real world though.

 

I wouldn't suggest 3PP needs removing (actually i would love it if it were, just for the laughs) but the camera does need work.....there should be no way, in a so called survival simulator, to be able to look over walls or into/out of buildings without exposing yourself to danger. 

 

A new camera viewpoint in 3rd could be the solution - whether the one currently suggested is the answer who knows?

 

hmm ... "the real world" ..

 

as soon as the devs give the DayZ tune a 170° field of view, eyes front

and subliminal perception of very slight sounds, breathing, and 'instinctive situational assessment'

('combat awareness', important in stress situations)

and a sense of smell

and physical spatial perception

and the normal, highly accurate self-location ability of the human body

and realistic in-game reaction time

 

and throw in perception of pressure change on the inner ear.. why not ?.. so you know which way is up and you sense (not hear - sense) movement outside your peripheral vision

etc

then 1pp will be great

 

and it may also be slightly kind of 'realistic'

 

xx

 

1 ) When I play 1pp, I play on a 1st person server - why does this make me wrong ?

 

2 ) ps - I guess no one could walk around with a little-bitty mirror in their pockets ?? - like in 'Saving Ryan' ??

that would sure wreck ALL these arguments

Edited May 27, 2015 by pilgrim

[Platin. 6]

Like i said i dont need this opportunity to be able to look above the walls or things like that, the problem for me are the over the sholder sight, and that the charakter isn't in the middle anymore then.

 

I know that it isn't easy for the developers, to handle it, if everybody need to beef about all sorts of things, an they just try to satisfy both sides in this regard. 

 

But the feeling for myself would be atrocious, with the new camera angle , that's why i might not be able to play it anymore then.

 

But I know a different way to eliminate the ability to look over walls, for this people they can't live with it.  Just remove them completely ;D

Edited May 27, 2015 by Platin.

[mercules 1290]

1PP needs to go away because it is not popular and not used. 

 

The popularity of those servers shows most people prefer to be able to see their character.

 

 

No it shows that the majority of the people will choose the easiest option given the choice. I'm pretty sure if you made it so that you could turn on people starting with a backpack and gun that type of server would become a "popular" choice for many people. In fact I know for a fact it would because in the Mod people did just that and pretty soon there were dozens of normal servers and hundreds of servers where you had a starting loadout with guns/food/backpack. 

 

I'm pretty sure if I said, "You can either run a mile and I'll give you $50 or you can sit on this bench for 4 minutes and I'll give you $50." I'd have more people on the bench than running. Then again the only issue with 3rd person in DayZ is you are cheating yourself out of a better experience by playing easy mode. 

[Platin. 6]

In an open world game like DayZ, GTA or whatever i would like to see my own charakter, that's the reason why i play in thir person. If i would like to play a first person shooter, then i play Css (Counter Strike Source) BF3 or whatever.

 

In DayZ is added, that i would like to see the closes and stuff like this i wear in the game. That's the reason why the people play game like this in third person, and not what you are saying.

 

And also in DayZ you have an much more relation to your own character for people they play in third person.

 

In first person i would don't care which closes i wear, because the reference of your charakter and closes is missing. Because you just see them in your inventory.

 

When i play Dayz, i have always 2 or 3 different outfits in my inventory, that i am able to change my closes every time i wish.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Platin.

[mercules 1290]

In an open world game like DayZ, GTA or whatever i would like to see my own charakter, that's the reason why i play in thir person. If i would like to play a first person shooter, then i play Css (Counter Strike Source) BF3 or whatever.

DayZ is a Horror Survival. 3rd person makes the horror less and survival easier since the zombies can't see you while you see them and you can check around corners so no surprise face to face encounters. 3rd person separates you from the game. You are no longer looking over your shoulder to see what that noise was, you are turning your puppet and seeing what they see.

 

In DayZ is added, that i would like to see the closes and stuff like this i wear in the game. That's the reason why the people play game like this in third person, and not what you are saying.

You can see your clothes in the inventory screen. People play 3rd person because it is easier. Point in fact, in the Mod you never saw a 1pp only server that offered starter gear... almost all of starter gear servers were 3rd person. Why? because why do easy mode on the harder setting.

 

And also in DayZ you have an much more relation to your own character for people they play in third person.

Hell no. In 1st it feels like it is me peering out that window or going to a kneeling position to look over cover. When a shot hits nearby I don't see the dirt fly up over at my side and so am able to trace where the shot came from. I can see only what my character could actually see and so I have to turn and look behind me and up and down. I wonder if there is some sort of social disorder that people relate more to a puppet version of a character than looking out through the character's eyes?

 

In first person i would don't care which closes i wear, because the reference of your charakter and closes is missing. Because you just see them in your inventory.

I suppose in real life you just wander around in purple pants, a yellow undershirt and ugly sweater vest with mismatched shoes because you can't see your clothes most of the time? I mean you only see them when you turn your head and look around or in a mirror. Dumbest excuse ever.

 

When i play Dayz, i have always 2 or 3 different outfits in my inventory, that i am able to change my closes every time i wish.

1st person certainly doesn't stop you from doing that.

 

[Killawife 599]

There are plenty of games for those who think its important to see their characters or their clothes in game, heres a few: http://www.girlsgogames.com/games/doll_dress_up_games. For most players, this is not important and they don't play 3pp for that particular reason, they do it because its easier to get a good grasp of the situation at hand, where there are players, what they are doing and how to tactically outmaneuver them.

I don't particularly agree that this gives them an unfair advantage though as everyone can do it but its not very kosher.

 But what one person thinks is not relevant. Its what the community thinks that is important.

Lets try the new angle and see what happens. If its crap we can all whine about the unfinished game we thought not being what we thought it was going to be even though we were told not to buy it from the very beginning and all will be well.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Killawife

[mercules 1290]

 

I don't particularly agree that this gives them an unfair advantage...

 

It does against the zombies and other AI who don't get the magical view from on high and have to look around at eye level. In other words it trivializes encounters with Zombies and Hunting Animals. Two important systems if the Devs are to be believed since they are rewriting them. ;)

[Platin. 6]

I see it right, that you actually try to talk me out of my own mind!? I wrote as i see it, i speak for myself and explained why i play the way i play. Therefor saving please do me wanting to impute anything or another even though i have allredy explained, what i there to say in this respect.

 

If you like to play this game in first person then do it, but don't try to deny other people their preferred example.

 

I do not concern myself with such a nonsense or people like you, so spare me with more comments.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Platin.

[emuthreat 2837]

I see it right, that you actually try to talk me out of my own mind!? I wrote as i see it, i speak for myself and explained why i play the way i play. Therefor saving please do me wanting to impute anything or another even though i have allredy explained, what i there to say in this respect.

 

If you like to play this game in first person then do it, but don't try to deny other people their preferred example.

 

I do not concern myself with such a nonsense or people like you, so spare me with more comments.

No!  You must submit.  There is only the one true POV, and his image shall never be reproduced.  Infidels will be hunted down and killed like dogs on their morally corrupt, and generally inferior, cheater servers.

[pilgrim* 3514]

..//..

I can see only what my character could actually see

..//..

 

Well NO dude that is so wrong.

You're telling me that when you look out of the front of your face you can only see a range as wide as your computer screen ???

 

- do you have an idea what it's like to be a human being ?  check it out one day.

 

[ but no problem - if you really think that's "realistic", hey, there are servers specially set aside for you to play on .. enjoy! ]

 

xx

[Bororm 1156]

I don't care about this new camera angle. First, I won't be using it, second, it doesn't appear to solve any of the problems inherent with the third-person camera. They may as well not bother.

 

The "problems" inherent to third person are the definition of what third person is, seeing more than your character can.  They can't "solve" that without making it ridiculously convoluted (like making things invisible that aren't in LOS, but still showing the terrain, which makes no sense).  You are right that they shouldn't bother.

 

 

Op is a perfect example of what is wrong in modern society.

It's the ME ME ME!!!! mentality (I don't like it, therefore it is shit and it must be done how *I* want it), being a loudmouth while staying uninformed and ignorant (games in alpha stadium are ALWAYS subject to change and not to be taken as a full playable set in stone game) and last the absolute inability to adapt to changes, rather running head first to a wall over and over again or resorting to hissy fits with lots of insults like in the OP.

Bravo, I say!

 

Uhh this is the exact reason why they are changing it to begin with, because a small amount of people apparently couldn't adapt after literal years now.  Most people did adapt and have no problem with 3pp, but some people just can't seem to do it and want it changed.

 

It's not "me me me" to not want the standard changed.  It's the opposite.  You can't adapt, and want the game to change for you.

[mrbeaneater 21]

I for one like both POVs, i enjoy 1st person for a more immersive feel, i actually have to cautiously move cover to cover in town to stay safe rather than charge though because i have such a wide field of view that allows me to notice everything and it makes me feel like i'm the one surviving instead of playing a character who is.

3rd person is good to because its more relaxed for me, of course the random mosin shot past your face can still give you an adrenaline rush but because i dont have to worry to much about my surroundings its a bit easier to me.

I've seen the devs video testing out the new 3rd person camera angle and it did remind me alot of games like resident evil or fallout nv somewhat. I am a major fan of resident evil and would love this camera angle to be in but i understand where the OP is coming from, i have friends that have played resident evil 5 with me but couldnt stand the camera angle. Of course with the word Alpha also means change and since Dayz has kept the original 3rd person camera so long this is a major change that of course would upset people who are accustomed to it, but i would just say that at the very least give it a chance, just because it seems like it sucks doesnt mean it will. There has been many times where i've judged a game before giving a chance and it usually becomes one of my faves, lets just hope this dispute gets settled.

[mercules 1290]

Well NO dude that is so wrong.

You're telling me that when you look out of the front of your face you can only see a range as wide as your computer screen ???

 

- do you have an idea what it's like to be a human being ?  check it out one day.

 

[ but no problem - if you really think that's "realistic", hey, there are servers specially set aside for you to play on .. enjoy! ]

 

xx

 

You only have one screen... ?

 

 

So in your honest opinion, which is more realistic:

 

1. Looking around like you are wearing goggles or glasses that don't allow peripheral vision to be used as much....

 

2. Looking around as if your eyes were on stalks like a slug but 3 feet behind and above you so you can see your own ass but not was is half a foot in front of your chest...

[mrbeaneater 21]

Looking around as if your eyes were on stalks like a slug but 3 feet behind and above you so you can see your own ass but not was is half a foot in front of your chest...

i like to pretend its like on Mario 64 and i have a little guy on a cloud with a camera following me around lol.

[hleVqq 139]

But then like i said ca 2 weeks later was published that you plan to change the camera angle of the third person to totally crap. I read about the argument, that many people are frustrated that the enemies are able to look above the wall or stuff like that. But first off all, i play this game most time for myself (alone) on more or less empty servern, and if i play on full servers, i play friendly, and don't shoot that much, only if i get attacked by someone. That means i dont care about this so called problem look above the wall or what ever.

The fact that you play the game the way you do does not remove the problem with 3rd person view. It's unrealistic. It's abusable. It's not what the devs seek. Be glad that 3rd person is still left as an option, knowing that DayZ strives for survival realism and 3rd person camera certainly does not add to that.

 

Oh and if you disregard the bullshit that is 3rd person only due to the fact that it allows you to see your character, then you're a casual and your opinion shouldn't be considered in the first place. You can't see yourself from a 3rd person perspective IRL. Why would you in a game that strives for realism?

Edited May 28, 2015 by Powerhouse

[Coheed_IV 381]

You're telling me that when you look out of the front of your face you can only see a range as wide as your computer screen ???

Wait.....you don't press your nose up to the screen?

[Coheed_IV 381]

You can't see yourself from a 3rd person perspective IRL. Why would you in a game that strives for realism?

This is a bad argument, situational awareness of real life is much closer to 3pp. The hardcore arma groups (who do have real life experience) usually look for more ways to increase awareness.

But that's a different game, we're talking about zombies here. The best argument is that the current 3pp dammages the game experience. Arguing realism will never end.

[hleVqq 139]

This is a bad argument, situational awareness of real life is much closer to 3pp. The hardcore arma groups (who do have real life experience) usually look for more ways to increase awareness.

No, it is a perfect argument. Using 3PP to make up for situational awareness that's lost with 1PP loses, well, 1PP. You sacrifice one for another. That's not the way it should be. You don't replace a realistic feature with an unrealistic one so that things would look more real, because they no longer look more real due to the realistic feature being replaced in the first place. It should be 1PP. Whatever's lost should be made up using other means, or not at all.

[q.S Sachiel 470]

So you are saying since everyone has the option to look over walls it is OK?

 

I love that argument....everyone else is doing it so it's alright.  That reasoning doesn't work in the real world though.

 

I wouldn't suggest 3PP needs removing (actually i would love it if it were, just for the laughs) but the camera does need work.....there should be no way, in a so called survival simulator, to be able to look over walls or into/out of buildings without exposing yourself to danger. 

 

A new camera viewpoint in 3rd could be the solution - whether the one currently suggested is the answer who knows?

Except that this is a computer game not representative of reality, allowing consumers to live out a fictional and fantastical experience in a world of someone else's creation...

Eagle Dynamics created one of the best ever flight simulators, realistic and authentic in every way.  It came with an arcade 'game' mode where simulator elements are softened to allow for arcade flight or new users.

You could play this online.  The catch was, that everyone was on a level playing field.

 

IMO your argument falls flat comparing it to a real-world scenario, presumably where someone is doing something wrong, with the intended element of guilt to be added.

And it's not that everyone is doing it, it's that everyone has the option.

 

I haven't seen anywhere near this kind of facemelting tear development on the BI forums for games such as ARMA2/3 or back in DayZ mod. 

It seems like every tom dick and harry who comes to DayZ has their own dictatorial regime to impress upon everyone else, and all the 'purists' seem to only be voicing their opinions now (albeit now that they've actually paid for the mod/game) whether they played the original or not - which had very similar camera mechanics.

 

But we'll see where the development goes in the end, because as you say, WIP and this horse is well flogged.

Edited May 28, 2015 by q.S Sachiel

[Coheed_IV 381]

No, it is a perfect argument.

hey, was trying to help you out, but you lost me after you typed "real" the fourth time.

I'm not on a side, I play both.

But right now 1pp is a better experience. Because in 3pp you can peak over a fence to see which way an infected is facing?!?! And sneak up from behind. That's not the game they are trying to make (I believe). And guess what, they're going to change that.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Coheed_IV

[emuthreat 2837]

i like to pretend its like on Mario 64 and i have a little guy on a cloud with a camera following me around lol.

I think you may have the best soultion.  Lakitu for everybody!!!  This is much better than my "3pp camera rendered as an orange orb" suggestion; that would just be too gaudy.

[Platin. 6]

I have exactly 4 games bought in the last 10 years, because I'm not interested 99% of the games which appear on the market at all. One of them was SimCity 2013 which has cost 60 euros, and thanks to the developers the worst game has become at all, so I just played it 4 days, and have not touched since. The alternative would possibly Cities skyline, but I will not spend extra money just to finally get the game so what you had hoped for with SimCity.

Now finally, I bought the Dayz Standalone, after I determined 15 years have been waiting for a decent zombie game, because I'm not interested in all the other zombie games that have appeared in that time, if only because all the mutants which it occur. If I personally play a zombie game, I want to only see there zombies, and no mutants or whatever, as it will have all the kids these days.

So I finally decided on DayZ after I've watched previously extended period videos about it, and as I said, exactly 2 weeks later, I find out then after I've already bought the game that at one time the third person view is changed, exactly to the view which I absolutely can not stand in video games.


So the game is useless for me, from the moment which means I have my money spent in this case, nothing.

 

So I would also in this case to spend extra money to get me arma 2, to can then play the DayZ mod, only to finally get the game for which I have spent in vain already 30 euros.

Ultimately, I have therefore thrown in respect of dayz my money out the window. So I can only say thank you.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Platin.

[pilgrim* 3514]

You only have one screen... ?

 

 

So in your honest opinion, which is more realistic:

 

1. Looking around like you are wearing goggles or glasses that don't allow peripheral vision to be used as much....

 

2. Looking around as if your eyes were on stalks like a slug but 3 feet behind and above you so you can see your own ass but not was is half a foot in front of your chest...

 

in my honest opinion Mercules:

 

You guys are all so brainwashed sitting in front of FPS games that you can't understand what is really in front of you.

if you want to live with your head in a cardboard box you can only see out of a slot cut in the front - that's cool, but don't tell me it's real human vision.

And don't tell anyone to go into combat like that - if you did they'd give you a RUDE reply.

 

You certainly can't compare it to real life, dude. When you look at your SCREEN(S) dude, how much of the ROOM can you see ?

Plenty of it, right ? - you can see half the room, right ?  - you're a human being you have 170° vision

(but not in the game, dude)

 

AND - lol - you can ALSO move your eyeballs without moving your head - that's pretty amazing hu ? Try that in your FPS game.

 

OK - to be serious  - Do you people remember WHY Bohemia introduced 3pp into their game - do you ??

 

If you don't remember, then read up on it - BI introduced 3pp to make the experience MORE REALISTIC. Do the damn research and read THE DEVS arguments about why they brought in 3pp.

It was for "battlefield realism"

 

You ask me to choose between ( 1 ) and ( 2 )

well that's an interesting and difficult choice - you think it's an easy choice because you're a sucker for the "standard screen view". That's not your fault dude. Most FPS players accept that as the given. After a while you don't notice how unrealistic it is. Only developers and simulation experts worry about "realism" - They discuss it, they experiment, they write about it, they explain the problems.

 

I guess you missed out on the whole debate.  But you could check out what Bohemia has said about this, and what other simulation developers have said. It's all on record.

you make the mistake of saying "I like it - so it must be realistic" and "I don't like it - so it must be unrealistic".

All that shows is that the game works for you, and you've been suckered into a nice immersion experience, and you feel good with it. So you think it seems "realistic".

 

But BI products are NOT supposed to be FPS games - they are supposed to be immersive battlefield SIMULATION games .. that's not the same as FPS for a whole set of reasons - read up on the subject.

And finally - you find a game "realistic" when any first year medical student, or any foot soldier, or any psychologist, or any game designer, or any alert player - can point out why it is not "realistic". then that's real nice for you but stay clear of the debate until you know what you're talking about.

 

xx

Edited May 28, 2015 by pilgrim

[pilgrim* 3514]

Wait.....you don't press your nose up to the screen?

 

yep I press my nose right flat to the screen, and I can JUST ALMOST see inside round the edges

 

also in this game I can smell zombies behind me - and when I'm about to go into a dark room, you know ANYONE can smell a gun that's been fired in the last 10 minutes...

 

it's all good.

[hleVqq 139]

You guys are all so brainwashed sitting in front of FPS games that you can't understand what is really in front of you.

if you want to live with your head in a cardboard box you can only see out of a slot cut in the front - that's cool, but don't tell me it's real human vision.

It's not "real human vision", it's just view that's seen through your character's eyes (not your own, obviously, as you are looking at the monitor), as opposed to a view from someone behind and above you. Naturally seeing the view through your character's eyes is way more realistic and immersive.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Powerhouse