Sorely needed primitive survival tweaks

[FlimFlamm 509]

So anyone who has been playing on the experimental servers will know what it is like to find absolutely zero loot. That's fine, I'm a survivor, I can take it. Having to survive with absolutely no loot has magnified the flaws in primitive survival and so I might as well share them with everyone else.

 

Berries and apples are good. Without them the experimental server would be literally unplayable. Mushrooms are coming and that will only improve things. Foraging is good.

 

Hunting is also good. I can run down a cow with a stone knife and make a bow to do more hunting. I can cook the food over an open fire, and I can start a fire from oak and birch trees. I can make arrows off the land and improve them with bones of the creatures I kill.

 

That's all that is good about primitive survival. You can forage and hunt with a bow. Here's what you cannot do:

 

You cannot tan the leather from your kills without finding garden lime, which is extremely time consuming and tedious and defeats the whole purpose of primitive survival. Even if you find garden lime then you still need to find a leather sewing kit. The fact that there is no improvised means of tanning leather means that in loot scarce environments leather is not accessible. Because there is no improvised means of sewing leather even if I have tanned leather it remains entirely useless unless you luck out and find the item you are looking for.

 

Solution:

• Improvised tanning rack made from sticks and guts
• Improvised sewing kit made from guts and bone needle (made from bone, just like the bone hook)

With these two very reasonable additions we would all be able to fully utilize the parts of our kills, and thereby honor their sacrifices. We would also be able to craft clothing which gives the primitive survivalist essential storage space.

 

The next issue is farming. I'm fine with needing to find seeds, but if I also need to find a shovel and a water container then it is impossible to farm. If I can make primitive sewing kits and tan my leather without garden lime then I would be able to craft leather water pouches, but this still leaves the problem of needing a fancy metal tool in order to till a bit of dirt for my farm plot. It's quite ridiculous to think that unless you have a metal shovel you simply cannot till a small amount of earth. We need to be able to farm without relying on loot merely to dig the ground up a bit.

 

Solution:

• Improvised digging stick made from a stick and sharpened with a knife

 

This will solve two issues in once fell scoop! Not only will I be able to dig my farm plots, but I will also be able to dig for worms, which will open up the world of fishing for survival. Fishing is great but I'm not ever going to do it if I need to carry around a frigging metal shovel on my back. I don't exactly have a tool shed I can keep all these fancy supplies in now do I? (well at least not yet). I could go on a rant about how ridiculous it would be in real life to be unable to fish without a shovel, but I will spare everyone that. Hopefully everyone agrees.

 

These changes would be small but their impact would be huge for the game of surviving without civilization, which is something many of us are keenly interested in. The ability to make clothing and water pouches would completely revolutionize survivors ability to actually live with some modicum of comfort, and a simple digging stick would open up the world of fishing and farming.

 

Tanning leather is something the sun can do for free. Garden lime can take a long dirt nap.

 

An improvised leather sewing kit doesn't replace the value of a real leather sewing kit. The improvised one is only good for one or two uses whereas a real one lasts much longer and perhaps can mend things that the improvised kit cannot. The improvised kit also cannot stitch wounds. (being made from animal guts and all)

 

A digging stick isn't going to break the game or make actual shovels lose their purpose; an improvised digging stick will break quickly but get the job done in a pinch. The result of this change alone is a game that is reasonable to play without constantly relying on scavenging towns for supplies and for food. Farming and fishing are perfect compliments to one another, and all I need to do to get started with fishing is to get me some worms, the rest is already taken care of. (fishing rod from guts and hook from bones)

 

These requests are beyond reasonable. Incredibly easy to implement and incredibly beneficial in every way. The only possible argument against them is that this would discourage people from constantly going from town to town which produces interaction, but in the words of the devs themselves, I want to play the game how I want, not how you want me to play it. My chilling alone in the forest isn't going to hurt anything. These proposed mechanics still require a great deal of effort from players to execute. Killing your first animal for guts or bones is hard. Finding seeds is hard. Fishing is time consuming. Getting enough leather to make somethig useful is hard. It's just that these are all preferrable to the craps shoot of "will there be loot or will there not be loot".

Edited May 24, 2015 by FlimFlamm

[ebrim 998]

I think the only suggestion I'm not on board with is the farming with a stick. This just feels a bit too far of a stretch to me. Imagine how calorie intensive it would be to actually dig up and till a bit of ground with a sharpened sick. It's not impossible but it is wildly impractical.

But, I think digging up worms with an stick one at a time is reasonable (a shovel or hoe gets you 3 and 4 respectively).

Edited May 24, 2015 by Ebrim

[xCAPx 349]

I agree with you. There should be much more carftable survival gear or tools from the enviroment, but I believe they will add these mechanics over time.

 

Why shouldn't we be able to dig for worms or make small garden plots (1 square) with our hands. If you not wearing gloves, your hand will be sore after ~2 plots, with gloves 3-4 (gloves gets damaged over time). If your hands are sore, you should be carfting things slower, if you want to aim with a weapon, you should have more sway and so on.

 

Bone needle is a great idea :)

[OnionOfShame 138]

I agree with your points here. However, I think the improvised digging stick doesn't make sense. Not sure if you've tried, but I doubt a sharpened stick would be any better than just using your hands. Instead, what if we could build an improvised hoe from an improvised knife and an Ashwood stick? Or maybe an improvised shovel if we put in some more work and sharpened a larger rock.

Edited May 24, 2015 by OnionOfShame

[LoveAffair 329]

3 sticks and a rope or nails would work. Now we just need it to rain again. Happy planting :)

Edited May 24, 2015 by LoveAffair

[Mullraugh 1151]

Yes there should be more survival things like this, but if you forget that you're in a world where there could potentially be a town close by that could cater to any of your clothing, food, and tool needs, then you're just plain dumb. Why spend all that time trying to make a stick farming tool when you could sneak into a town, or even a small farm, take the tool you need, and exit. Even if you are living off the land 100%, one day that town down the road that's infested with zombies might pull you in just for curiosity's sake of what loot might be found. It's inevitable.

 

 

But yeah, good ideas here. I'd like to see them in the game,

[xCAPx 349]

Yes there should be more survival things like this, but if you forget that you're in a world where there could potentially be a town close by that could cater to any of your clothing, food, and tool needs, then you're just plain dumb. Why spend all that time trying to make a stick farming tool when you could sneak into a town, or even a small farm, take the tool you need, and exit. Even if you are living off the land 100%, one day that town down the road that's infested with zombies might pull you in just for curiosity's sake of what loot might be found. It's inevitable.

 

 

But yeah, good ideas here. I'd like to see them in the game,

 

For me, it's not the problem that you can loot the things which you need to survive off the land. But, for me, it's a "problem" that you have to loot a town to get your tools (atm).

 

That's the hole point, I think.

 

Yes, the loot-tools should have a better quality and should be more effective than the crafting-tools. But surely, we should be able to craft all the things which are necessary for surviving off the land by ourselves.

[IkaikaKekai 1957]

I think the only suggestion I'm not on board with is the farming with a stick. This just feels a bit too far of a stretch to me. Imagine how calorie intensive it would be to actually dig up and till a bit of ground with a sharpened sick. It's not impossible but it is wildly impractical.

But, I think digging up worms with an stick one at a time is reasonable (a shovel or hoe gets you 3 and 4 respectively).

Hawaiians had the 'o 'o stick, and we wern't known for being very malnourished.  Granted we used something more along the lines of a hardwood spear to dig with, but we got it done.

[FlimFlamm 509]

I think the only suggestion I'm not on board with is the farming with a stick. This just feels a bit too far of a stretch to me. Imagine how calorie intensive it would be to actually dig up and till a bit of ground with a sharpened sick. It's not impossible but it is wildly impractical.

But, I think digging up worms with an stick one at a time is reasonable (a shovel or hoe gets you 3 and 4 respectively).

 

For worms it could honestly be possible to collect them with bare hands. As a kid I often ran around the yard turning over rocks for worms to fish with.

 

Regarding the digging of farms with stick, I agree that it should be difficult and labor intensive. The stick should break after only a few plots and so working with one should be much more of a hassle than digging with a shovel.

 

The main issue for me is that I feel like I'm a slave to the metal shovel. Being unable to fish or farm without a metal shovel totally spoils my interest in farming and fishing because when I want to do so I need to go lookiong for a shovel in dangerous towns. If I'm going into dangerous towns then I'm probably going to find a bunch of food and supplies before I chance upon a shovel, so why bother farming or fishing in the first place?

 

A real shovel should not take damage due to being used on the ground. It should last for years just like a real metal shovel would; that would be the value of a real shovel.

[FlimFlamm 509]

I agree with your points here. However, I think the improvised digging stick doesn't make sense. Not sure if you've tried, but I doubt a sharpened stick would be any better than just using your hands. Instead, what if we could build an improvised hoe from an improvised knife and an Ashwood stick? Or maybe an improvised shovel if we put in some more work and sharpened a larger rock.

 

Actually by driving a sharp stick into the ground, you can get leaverage on clumped dirt and till it much like a plow. Digging is always hard work unless you have machinery to do it for you.

 

A digging implement made from a stone knife and a stick id something that I dream about. I also dream about an axe made from a stick and a stone knife. They are fragile but they can fell trees with a great deal of patience.

 

Here's hoping that the devs hear our pleas!

 

P.S digging sticks are tried and tested. One neat trick is to make a fire hardened digging stick. You heat up your wood with a fire but don't let it burn and the moisture leaves the wood, making it more tough!

[FlimFlamm 509]

Yes there should be more survival things like this, but if you forget that you're in a world where there could potentially be a town close by that could cater to any of your clothing, food, and tool needs, then you're just plain dumb. Why spend all that time trying to make a stick farming tool when you could sneak into a town, or even a small farm, take the tool you need, and exit. Even if you are living off the land 100%, one day that town down the road that's infested with zombies might pull you in just for curiosity's sake of what loot might be found. It's inevitable.

 

 

But yeah, good ideas here. I'd like to see them in the game,

 

I think it would be absolutely wonderful if I could make a living completely off the zombified grid. One day I will certainly become bored of the forest and out of sheer adrenaline seeking will wander into the danger zones of civilization. The fact that the game allows me to do this in my own time and in my own way is a testament to it's quality. After survivors are done exploring the world they need something long term to work at which they enjoy, and since different people enjoy different things, we require many options.

 

Once the population limit gets increased to 75 or 100 chernarus might begin to feel crowded. When this happens primitive survival will be a god send.

[Whyherro123 2283]

I agree with your points here. However, I think the improvised digging stick doesn't make sense. Not sure if you've tried, but I doubt a sharpened stick would be any better than just using your hands. Instead, what if we could build an improvised hoe from an improvised knife and an Ashwood stick? Or maybe an improvised shovel if we put in some more work and sharpened a larger rock.

 

Ah, "digging sticks" are as old as agriculture itself, if not older, and are effective so long as they are used right. You won't be digging any ditches with it, but it can make a hole in the dirt for planting seeds, or for levering a plant out of the ground.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digging_stick

[trikstyle 30]

• Just wanted to add a "+1" to the OP's suggestions. Feel they would be quite useful and are sorely needed.

 

On the gardening implement:  An ashwood stick combined with a can or something could be an easy crafting item, and would make sense to the game world.

 

 

Just a thought.