[Discussion] There needs to be a process to surviving.

[DemiSaint 4]

This post I made on reddit but the DayZ reddit is straight up filled with toxic people. I got some few interesting points but some people just down vote without making a constructive argument or a statement as to why thy they don't agree with me...

 

Even tho it sound really dumb to say "there needs to be a process to survive" but with the current state of DayZ they have to add a lot of improvised items and ways to survive without just looting cities/towns.

For e.g. Rust, you start by gathering materials to build better tools, then you build a shed. Done, now the game begins. You can do whatever you want if it means you'll survive.

Reign of kings - same thing, gather, build a shelter then you can do something.

The Forest - first you find a good spot to build a shelter and while you gather things you need. You come across food or you go off road to get food if you see the potential of getting it.

Don't Starve - Even with the name like this first thing you do is pick a spot and build there, you come across food while you gather.

This new patch 0.56 EXP made me think that DayZ without guns or loot is terrible because the only thing DayZ has is not there. While I was playing I didn't mind not having a weapon. I was thinking: okay what should I do to survive?

First idea: Get a shovel or a hoe, some seeds, water bottle and try to grow something. Even when I found everything I need, farming didn't work for some reason.

Second idea: Make an improvised knife, kill a bambi, get a tree bark and a stick, cook the human meat on a sharpened stick. Nope, dumbest game design idea ever is to have ashwood stick for that to work, that only spawns commonly in Berezino.

Third idea: Was maybe hunt but finding something simple as a rope is not an option anymore. Fishing is also something that you will not be able to do.

In my opinion forcing people to go inland is a bad idea. If you look at the map there is no where to go really, besides just rush in and getting lucky. The argument of saying if there are people geared than you clearly can find gear and you're just bad. Except that the first people that got geared are the ones that looted everything, it's insane how much loot can one guy carry.

How about this: I got a Vybor spawn, you can only dream to get this far from coast without starving. I knocked a geared guy out and proceed to loot. I went to Kabanino, that military base near Vybor, Pustovka, Lopatino, NWAF tents, Grishino and finally Stray Sobor. NOTHING. Then I got killed by a guy that I shot 3 times at point blank.

While this is ALPHA and things will change, looting cities and towns should be high risk, high reward type of thing. There is a reason behind a saying: "Is anyone in Cherno?". This patch really point out how desperately this game needs crafting. Base building comes out in later stages of alpha but having something simple as tents and fire place gives you the need to stay at one place and gather stuff around and be constantly on a move.

I want to hear how other feel about this. Do you think cities and towns should be there just for you to visit from time to time to get something that would improve your gathering efficiency or something that would give you a time window to do bigger projects?

Edited May 17, 2015 by AmberHelios

[odin_lowe 3686]

Honestly, Rust, The Forest, 7 Days to Die or other games of the genre are great, but different.

 

I hate to break your bubble, but there will never be "base building" in the Stand Alone, not before we get mods at least. It's been stated before that we'll have the ability to barricade buildings and house, but never straight up base building, like in the Epoch mods.

 

And that's a great thing for me, as there are plenty of games with this kind of "Sim City" building popping out of the ground mechanic to play with. That's the main reason why I stopped playing the mod, apart from the vanilla mod, as it completely broke immersion for me.

 

I don't mind it in other games, but not in DayZ. DayZ is a game that strives to bring an "authentic" feel. (Not "realism", as it's a concept that can't be applied to virtual worlds. It's totally flawed.)

 

As for farming, I never had any problems with it. Don't know why it's not working for you. (Did you have fertilizer? Did you water your crops?)

 

Ashwood sticks don't "spawn" anywhere really, that was way before we could harvest them directly. You can either use an axe to chop down a big, or small ashwood tree, or even a birch tree. Or, you can use any kind of knife to "harvest" one ashwood stick from the two types of ashwood trees. Instead of killing humans and becoming a cannibal, you can kill various wildlife: Cows, deers, goats, pigs, boars, chickens, or even fish salt and fresh water fishes.

 

Lastely, the current experimental 0.56 spawns differs from the stable 0.55, you need to learn and adapt to them. Yesterday on the experimental branch I found plenty of canned food that were passed because players ignored the buildings they were in, as usually they don't spawn much.

 

Streamlining the experience is very down the line, if it ever happens. It,s one of the main appeal for many, that every experimental patch you might need to rethink your survival ways, and adapt to the changes. Things we don't even consider in a lot of survival games out there, finished or in development.

 

To each is own. In the end it all comes down to what kind of entertainment you want, and like, as they are simply videos games.

 

I wouldn't want DayZ to be similar to Rust, or any other game for that matter, not in a million years...

[DemiSaint 4]

It's already an "authentic" DayZ minus the vehicles and people are not very keen on that. If they leave the idea of looting everything in cities/towns this game will die before you know it. It's already boring when you're fully geared and there is nothing else to do besides PVP. The reason why DayZ will never be like rust or any other game is because of it's mechanics and functionality. Me and my friend spread out in hopes to find something to eat or some kind of loot in general. So that we can meet up and travel. 

 

For the farming part. I had water, I had fertilizer but it didn't give me the option to water it or anything. I though I will plat it and disconnect for 10-20 mins to come back and get some fresh vegetables.

 

Ashwood trees are only commonly found in Berezino or NW of the map.

 

And finally 

 

They only said they don't want the sky bases not bases in general.

 Tech Q&A: Crafting & Base Building

Craft-able Tents and Shelter

• Yes something is in plans, no details yet.

Base Building

• Yes and no, its not gonna be huge buildings all over the place
• It’s a rather longterm goal, not anytime soon. No details to share
• No plans on underground bunkers/bases yet.
• Building Barricade: Probably after summer

Q3 2015

• Traps
• Barricading
• Character life span + soft skills
• Animal predators + birds
• Aerial transport
• Console prototype

 

Q4 2015

• BETA version
• Animal companions (dog, horse)
• Steam community integration (Achievements, Steamworks modding, etc)
• Construction (building shelters / walls / ...)

Edited May 17, 2015 by DemiSaint

[Red_Ensign 990]

in all the other games you can build a shelter first because you don't start the game half an hour from starving to death (apparently having already not eaten for 3 or 4 weeks).

Edited May 17, 2015 by Red_Ensign

[DemiSaint 4]

ikr

[Whyherro123 2283]

I hold the opinion that survival, and by proxy, everything you need for survival, should be either "findable" in the wilds, or capable of being made by materials you find in the wilds. In real life, "modern" metal and plastic tools and such only really have a couple of advantages over "older" wool/leather/wood/stone tools, namely weight and ease-of-use

 

I would like to see that in-game. I want to be able to build a fire without matches, cook in a pot/bowl I've made, and eat food that I grew/foraged for. All matches have over a bow-drill or flint-and-steel is ease of use, and a metal pot is only better than a ceramic one due to weight, and that you don't have to  make the metal pot from natural resources.

 

Basically, let me make everything I need to survive from materials I find in the wilds: wood, leather, rope from grass, pottery from clay, knives/axes/projectile points from stone, without having to go into a town to find anything, expect for possibly seeds for a garden. You can make "hill-billy versions" of every medication in-game from plants,  common plants. Clothing and other containers (even waterproof ones) can be made relatively easily from tanned leather and furs, and said tanning process can be done without chemical fertilizers. Fires can be started using a variety of "primitive" methods easy found on the Internet, and even carried with you relatively easily, removing the whole "lighting a fire" thing from consideration entirely. Rope and cordage can be twisted from grass and other plants. Food can be cooked on a hot rock, a skewer over a fire, or using a bowl (carved from wood)/ pot (fired from clay) and hot stones from a fire) 

 

It should be hard. As someone trained in, and who teaches others, wilderness survival skills, including the ability to replicate the above, I can say that actual wilderness survival, like what we see in Day Z, is something that a sane person should never want to do.

 

However, what exactly do you mean by "process to surviving"? I am guessing your "process to surviving" and my "process to surviving" are several magnitudes in difference.

[Schweinsteiger 107]

Ashwwod trees are all over the place man, they aren't just in Berezino. Try using your scroll wheel more often, I farm all the time. After you've dug your holes then walk up to each hole and scroll for the different options. After you plant then you water your plants.

[Schweinsteiger 107]

I hold the opinion that survival, and by proxy, everything you need for survival, should be either "findable" in the wilds, or capable of being made by materials you find in the wilds. In real life, "modern" metal and plastic tools and such only really have a couple of advantages over "older" wool/leather/wood/stone tools, namely weight and ease-of-use

 

I would like to see that in-game. I want to be able to build a fire without matches, cook in a pot/bowl I've made, and eat food that I grew/foraged for. All matches have over a bow-drill or flint-and-steel is ease of use, and a metal pot is only better than a ceramic one due to weight, and that you don't have to  make the metal pot from natural resources.

 

Basically, let me make everything I need to survive from materials I find in the wilds: wood, leather, rope from grass, pottery from clay, knives/axes/projectile points from stone, without having to go into a town to find anything, expect for possibly seeds for a garden. You can make "hill-billy versions" of every medication in-game from plants,  common plants. Clothing and other containers (even waterproof ones) can be made relatively easily from tanned leather and furs, and said tanning process can be done without chemical fertilizers. Fires can be started using a variety of "primitive" methods easy found on the Internet, and even carried with you relatively easily, removing the whole "lighting a fire" thing from consideration entirely. Rope and cordage can be twisted from grass and other plants. Food can be cooked on a hot rock, a skewer over a fire, or using a bowl (carved from wood)/ pot (fired from clay) and hot stones from a fire) 

 

It should be hard. As someone trained in, and who teaches others, wilderness survival skills, including the ability to replicate the above, I can say that actual wilderness survival, like what we see in Day Z, is something that a sane person should never want to do.

 

However, what exactly do you mean by "process to surviving"? I am guessing your "process to surviving" and my "process to surviving" are several magnitudes in difference.

Hey Grizzly Adams, you teach wilderness survival? My family are a bunch of Lakota and they have no problem living off the land. They do it quite comfortably. The key is knowing what you're doing and living like that, not being a weekend warrior "survival guy". Not saying you don't know what you're doing but as you know, there are a lot of people claiming to be survival experts that really have never spent more then a few days in the bush. I'm not an expert by any means, I watch television shows and talk to my relatives. I am handy with an axe though.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Schweinsteiger

[Whyherro123 2283]

I teach wilderness survival, but I also practice some bushcraft on the side.

 

Wilderness survival is a different animal than bushcraft. It requires almost a 180-degree change in mindset. The skills are capable of crossing over, but also change in focus. Everything changes from "immediate use" to "long-term".

 

The whole issue is "knowing what you are doing", you are correct. But that is the whole issue. "Survival" isn't really one set of skills, it is a whole bunch, a "career" in a sense. And learning all those skills is rather difficult and time-consuming. Which is why humanity developed the "division of labor" and all that.

 

I also think part of our "issue" is the fact that I am referring to survival in the sense of an individual. That is how I practice it, there being few other people in my area to share the hobby (ies), so I am used to referring to "survival" from the POV. I am cognizant of the fact that survival, even "hunter-gatherer"-style, becomes exponentially easier in a group. By yourself, you have to be your butcher, your doctor, your hunter and your tracker, as well as keeping the fire going and yourself fed. In a group, you can split up different "aspects" of survival to different people, lessening the labor load on all.

 

My above quote that you refer to, all by myself? No way Jose.

My above quote, with even a small group of other people? Easier, exponentially so, to the point where actual "survival" becomes trivial. Which is why humanity has never been made of up solo "mountain-men". Tribes have been around since hunter-gatherer times, hell, even before there was modern man.

 

If I may ask, what do your relatives do? Guides? Homesteaders?

[Bororm 1156]

The problem with DayZ survival is it's still dependent on tools/items, that you need to find spawning (and loot spawn being "messed" up).  There needs to be more improvised tools and gear if that's the direction they want to go.

 

It's improved a bit but the fishing pole was a good example.  It used to be basically a team effort to fish and make a fire, since you needed an axe and a shovel and the pole itself (have fun juggling those, now it's better with hatchets and what not).

[boneboys 7988]

"that only spawns commonly in Berezino" = thread killer.

+ other games mentioned are just that, other games.

+ ideas = suggestions, suggestions belong in the Suggestion Forum.

+ read the rules (pay particular attention to # N° 11).

+ check your PM box.

 

My advice = learn to play the game before you decide to make another "discussion" Topic.