Bartering Etiquette

[demoore 15]

     Earlier this week I started a discussion about A Player Ran Economy.

 

(Here's the link. http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/221881-a-player-ran-in-game-economy/)

 

     What seemed to be the general consensus is that all player ran economies would be abused and there was nothing of stable value to tie an economy down. Between server hopping and the high amount of loot it just doesn't seem feasible or necessary.

 

     I am now interested in trade etiquette. What would be the proper way of meeting people, placing items, and having successful trades. 

 

     Walk me through your trading process. Where you like to meet up, things you trade for, and safety precautions.

     

     Once again thanks for your feedback.

Edited March 9, 2015 by demoore

[Steak and Potatoes 13480]

I've done a few trades in the past, not for my benefit more so to give gear to other players.  With that state of mind I have not gone through great lengths of precaution preparation. I do however enjoy to pick very aberrant trade locations. For instance, I'll say to a user I'll give you 1-m4,2-mags and a Smersh vest they will ask what I wish for in return, I'll reply a waterbottle is fine.  They climax and ask where to meet and I reply top of electro firestation...  This will usually set in a user's mind "its a trap" but I convince them to go and they leave with good gear and mild confusion.

[Old_Crow_Whiskey 119]

I have successfully traded with newly met strangers, I've done it indoors only in large first floor rooms and have traded mostly ammo. I always keep my gun (usually a sawed off for this kind of thing) drawn but low at my side and I make sure the other person knows if they raise their gun it's their ass. I also encourage them not to reload or mess with mags during the transaction since I interpret that as a hostile noise. We each place our item at our feet then switch positions keeping a reasonable distance. From there we pick up our new loot and agree to part ways after the trade. I've never been shot in this process and have done it 3 times.

 

The long factory farm buildings and barns are the best for trading but some of the other buildings with large rooms will also do. These buildings are usually a little bit isolated and have more than one immediate exit and the doors are open by default. It's even fighting terrain so neither player has an advantage. I have never attempted to trade outside and I would not recommend it due to occasional glitches and the possibility of observation or fire cover by previously unseen enemies. I have only tried this with other armed players who look similarly geared as me since this equality means we both stand to lose if the deal goes sideways. Trading for ammo can be a real boost to your character's development since you can gain useful ammo and you get rid of some dead weight. I have not traded for firearms but would, and would make sure the other player knows the rules of the road - no ammo sounds, no reloading, no switching guns, no drawing to fire, no test firing, etc. I've traded for food a few more times but that's usually a sloppier endeavor among new spawns.

 

I find that engaging new players can be difficult since a lot of them just take off running without saying a word. It helps to not sound like a jack ass while stating your intent to trade - you pretty much want to start off negotiating as soon as possible. Often I'll start off by just giving up some free information or by finding out from them if there's been any trouble in the area. Information gained while trading can be as valuable as the trade itself. If you're trading, don't try to make friends just get it done and get outta there before things get a chance to go wrong.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Old_Crow_Whiskey

[Xoon (DayZ) 1]

I haven't traded anything for real in Dayz SA. But in the mod me and a friend made some trades, with me with a sniper in the hills, while he traded. If he did anything wrong, i would blow his head off.

[Mookie (original) 799]

Mmmm. I've been thinking about this lately for one reason or other, and agree that perhaps a framework would help. I'm not an entirely inexperienced trader, and standards do seem to have slipped just a tad lately.

 

As rare loot seems to become that much rarer (as more items spawn in game so net probabilities are reduced), and as heli hunting only works on p:off servers, trading has become a more intense occupation, in which (it seems to me) there is more pussy footing going on.

 

The fundamental problem actually isn't people getting blapped by their erstwhile trading partner. It's more people making noises and then failing to follow through, or re-evaluating their options. On more than one recent occasion this has led to me (perhaps naively) running from one end of the map to the other, only to find that people are simply AWOL. US/EU time differences might be a factor here, but 36 hours is a lot of time.

 

I guess there's a very obvious difference between 1:1 trades of the kind I do, and the trading areas/events that people like Burnaya carry out (which are much more complex).

 

Anyway, some suggestions:

 

1. If you make, or respond to a trade offer, you should be prepared to carry it out within 24 hours. Otherwise you potentially limit each other's capacity to just hang out and enjoy the game in general...

2. You should usually come alone to a trade, with your primary weapon shouldered (unless you have to double carry for the purposes of the trade)

3. You should always be prepared to Steam friend your prospective trading partner

4. You should both be prepared to trade on a neutral, and ideally low pop server for a first trade, although in practice you both need to accept some compromise.

5. You should try to meet at a geographical halfway point, using DayZDB coordinates for relatively isolated buildings as an ideal.

6. You should carry out negotiations re the above via PM, rather than in public (partially for your own safety)

7. You should not, repeat NOT, ever carry out a trade at your tent(s) or stash in general.

8. If something does go wrong that is beyond your control (eg server restart, other party crashes out) you should do your best to resolve the situation fairly, leaving no bitter aftertaste of pisstaking.

 

I'm sure there are more.

[trev186 389]

I have done a lot of trades both before the rise of tents and after.

I have only been scammed once but have had several close calls and know how to tell a scammer.

Everything Mookie said is good and I would agree with him.

Here are some tips on what a scammer sounds like and how to trade safely in game and out of game.

1. Steam forums are scanner central. You can make good trades through there but be extra careful. TThis issue is complicated by the fact that the steam forums will remove any threads calling out the scammers. There are currently about 5 there who are quite active.

2. If a person refuses to use a mic to trade then they may well be hostile. they may be in TS trying to chat with their friends to take you out. Also some people are terrible liars and won't reveal their voice for fear of you hearing it out.

3. Scammers will waffle back and forth on trades quite often. They change times and locations and will often leave you hanging.

4. If meeting a random in game and trying to trade never just agree to go where ever they say. Instead you should both agree on a neutral place

5. When trading with someone from the forums or a random in game. I recommend you conduct business quickly and get in and out. Never agree to wait for someone's friend to come with your items.

6. Scammers will promise the moon. It is often wise to ask for proof they have the items. I have for example had someone offer me a NATO suppressor when they were not even in game.

What to do when trades go wrong.. Due to unforeseen circumstances I have had the following happen before:

1. Someone logs out and are back at the coast

2. Someone died from loss of blood while logging in

3. Are traded was ambushed by randoms who suddenly ran a cross us (we survived)

4. Zombie killed a guy while he was waiting for me.

When stuff goes wrong here I recommend you being genereous. It looks bad if people die on your watch. In the cases where players died I tried to save what I could from their bodies and bring it to them. a couple times their bodies were gone so I replaced their gear with my own. It is better to have to re farm my own gear than lose trust with the trading community. I also recommend driving them back from the coast.

Edited March 9, 2015 by trev186

[Mookie (original) 799]

Yes, this is an important point - try to interpret each others' intentions as generously as you can ( W V Quine's Principle of Charity, etc). It's when people misunderstand each other that things get screwed up.

 

But balance that against the fact that the longer it all takes, the more arrangements are agreed, and then changed, the more likely it is that the other party is trying to set up something hostile (or at best is just a knob).

 

The stickied trading thread here is probably the best place to see offers and to respond to them via PM. We have a community that knows each other, and which is friendly to first timers. Trust within this community is a very important factor, and helps cut down on having to follow too many rules all the time between ourselves.

[sachad 1016]

If they act dodgy - shoot them. 

 

That's all the etiquette guidelines I'll ever need.

[cmeng12@jcu.edu 15]

Remind me to not trade with Sacha please.  :huh:

 

Colton

[trev186 389]

Remind me to not trade with Sacha please.  :huh:

 

Colton

Probably the nicest guy I have ever traded with right here

[Felony Inhibitor 59]

I just recently started trading, and while I always hope the encounter face to face would turn out ok, I decided on a different approach that has worked so far. I DON'T kos... if I don't know you, my assumption is, you might, it's a 50/50 chance. So, I have a few set trading spots. The spots themselves I have a direct line of sight to the drop point and surrounding areas from a concealed position with a scope. I leave my items on the ground at that location (never in a bag, all items laid out in sight, a bag could have anything in it), I then set up in my overlook spot and reveal the location of my items, with instructions. Go to said location, pick up items, drop your trade in the same location, and leave. 

 

If they do not drop their items before leaving, I drop them. If I see anyone else with them, I drop them. 

 

If they drop their items and leave I generally wait for 5 minutes, and use a predetermined route to the area of the items they left, and pick them up, and leave a different way than I came in, and I am hasty. I have yet to have any negative encounters from this tactic. I was shot at once, but the trade areas I use allow me a lot of dodge areas, and very little bead down locations for snipers save for the one I was using. 

[cmeng12@jcu.edu 15]

Probably the nicest guy I have ever traded with right here

 

5. When trading with someone from the forums or a random in game. I recommend you conduct business quickly and get in and out. Never agree to wait for someone's friend to come with your items.

 

 

Both of the above made me smile. I was wondering why you were jetting out of there quickly (minus the fiance / wife part - that i can understand!) - makes sense, to be honest.

 

I ended up leaving a (P) hig-cap vest and a decked AKS-74U with mags on the ground. No room after I put together my full uniform.

 

Thanks again mate, and let me know if you'd like to group up for some fun.

 

-Colton

Edited March 10, 2015 by coltonmeng

[Mookie (original) 799]

I just recently started trading, and while I always hope the encounter face to face would turn out ok, I decided on a different approach that has worked so far. I DON'T kos... if I don't know you, my assumption is, you might, it's a 50/50 chance. So, I have a few set trading spots. The spots themselves I have a direct line of sight to the drop point and surrounding areas from a concealed position with a scope. I leave my items on the ground at that location (never in a bag, all items laid out in sight, a bag could have anything in it), I then set up in my overlook spot and reveal the location of my items, with instructions. Go to said location, pick up items, drop your trade in the same location, and leave. 

 

If they do not drop their items before leaving, I drop them. If I see anyone else with them, I drop them. 

 

If they drop their items and leave I generally wait for 5 minutes, and use a predetermined route to the area of the items they left, and pick them up, and leave a different way than I came in, and I am hasty. I have yet to have any negative encounters from this tactic. I was shot at once, but the trade areas I use allow me a lot of dodge areas, and very little bead down locations for snipers save for the one I was using. 

 

Well if you've made that work then good for you. But speaking personally, there's no way on earth I'd agree to those terms. Point is that the risk to each party needs to be equivalent - a kind of detente.

 

If you're 500m away pointing a scoped Mosin at me, that equation is all to obviously skewed.

[thewire 88]

a trade window just like diablo 2 :)

[Felony Inhibitor 59]

Well if you've made that work then good for you. But speaking personally, there's no way on earth I'd agree to those terms. Point is that the risk to each party needs to be equivalent - a kind of detente.

 

If you're 500m away pointing a scoped Mosin at me, that equation is all to obviously skewed.

 

I should have pointed out I play almost exclusively on private servers, with whitelisted players, most of whom know that if I wanted them dead, it would have happened long before a trade occurred lol. So in that situation, and being that I typically trade very high value items, for me to drop said item on the ground and walk away from it, I just put my risk into the equation, because that item is all but lost to me, and the ability for me to gain what I want from the situation, once I have lost that item, is solely based on the other player. So to me, that's about as fair as I can make it.

[larsehh_ 53]

Since of the lovely persistence I'm giving most guys a fair chance. This of course if they actually do have something I want and we can agree a trade. I never go to trades in my full gear anymore just to be 100% safe. I have several sets for trading, hoarding etc.

 

If they kill me or do anything dodgy, good for them but that will just ruin their future trading reputation and I also chance of ruining the wanted items. I also always let other traders in Trading Post thread to know how first-timer trades went.