swords, smithing, furnace, melee and ragnar

[Wookieenoob 191]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ4sDn89P04

 

let's be honest here, who really thinks the melee system is finished as it is? it's fine and all, but there could be fire and brimstone in dayz.

 

i'll tell you what dayz needs. and it'll forever change the face of the game, and FORCE people away from military weaponry.

 

you take the current melee system

 

you make bladed weapons like knives and swords a lot more lethal, as well as adding in thrown weapons like javelins (planned, i know, but i suspect we may end up with tomahawks ;) ).

 

you add in a physical collision system where melee weapons can clash and be used to block a strike. 

 

you change the animations system so that each movement direction has it's own swing animation, and it's own block animation.

 

a block will deflect an attack from the opposite direction and causes the attacker knockback as if he missed. an unblocked attack will slice as usual, unless an attack of the same direction meets the blade. this introduces a level of "gunplay" with melee weapons beyong just fast tapping hits on your opponent and running in circles around him.

 

 

why this will change dayz:

 

i'm fairly sure that, being as even the spawns of canned food will soon be taken to a lower level, eventually we will see less military loot, too; not to mention far more zombies. if you can make a fairly nice combat sword with your forge reliably, you're more inclined to make yourself a camp as soon as possible, since not only will you need it for cooking your food, but you'll need it for making a weapon too. 

 

right now a lot of the playerbase just runs at eachother and everyone ends up dead, the only way to find a group that doesn't just blow you to pieces at the first opportunity, is to know them pre-playing. will this always be the case? is everyone that's playing now all the people that will play on release? probably not. i do think that there are a lot of people that will be playing the game when it hits beta/release, a lot more people who just want a survivor experience, so i'd maybe expect the kill on sight and deathmatching to end around then. 

 

once you start getting large groups of people who meet ingame and don't instantly think "i'm going to kill all these guys the moment i have enough bullets" - people might start to think "what can we do as a team?"

 

as far as i see it, there are several "endgame" / "kitted" choices people make. the AR-toting camouflage guy with a helmet; the ghillie sniper guy who's also lugging around an AK in his hands; the guy who goes round all the chopper crashes and ends up with an M65 jacket and a Pm or an aug or something. 

 

adding in medieval/alternative weapons and clothing classes that compete with these choices means that we add more endgames, more possible ways a fully kitted character who's had the choice of lots of gear could end up (rather than just like, gorka and AKPSO) 

 

a possible endgame character would be wearing leather crafted armor, which offers light protection (once ballistic vest offers protection. it'll obviously be a lesser version of this, just covering more area.) - he might have found a spear and a shield. - the advantage of a spear is being able to keep your enemy at range, while the shield offers some basic protection.

 

or perhaps a character that ended up wearing spraypainted medieval plate armor with a ghillie hat, with a longbow,  the advantage of the longbow is stability and range over the improvised ashwood bow.

 

why does expanded medieval weaponry encourage randoms to teamplay? remember that vikings video i posted? 

 

well i'd imagine if there was one group that spontaneously came into existence on a server there might be others, right? here's where we get into the real reason you shouldn't KOS. 

 

one group has a guy who has a camp that is in a wooded area with access to smithing minerals. the other sets up a camp in a nearby wooded area. the groups need weapons. one craft themselves spears and shields, the others craft themselves a hoard of ashwood bows. neither group has much in the way of conventional weaponry.

 

unknowingly, they both set out to northwest airfield at the same time. a 20 person fight begins where people only die instantly if they leave the group (the shield and spear group will have to absorb the arrows, and stay together as they move to cover. gunshots ring out from both sides, as the last of both group's ammunition is expended -  several people fall to the floor and the arrows keep coming. 

 

the shield group's sheilds are now ruined as they charge toward their foes, several fall in a hail of arrows before the bow group is hit by a wall of spears.

 

just a hypothetical, but while you can teamplay with many weapons in your group; i think you're less likely too, if you think you're going to survive on your own.  and i think that's the key here. right now you can always survive if you just keep on abusing 3rd person and stay energised and hydrated, but what the devs are really saying is "we want you to play together" when they talk about removing passive healing in favour of more blood bag expansion. correctly functioning medieval gear would be so great in this game, and would really encourage people to play as a team. a shield on it's own isn't very threatening, but 15 of them? 

 

 

 

 

suggested smithing/castlespawn additions:

 

doubleaxe

 

viking hatchet

 

Shield with shortsword (two items used on eachother to make one, IE ballistic vest)

 

javelins 

 

spears

 

ancient longbow

 

katana

 

medieval plate armor (seriously please)

 

crafted leather armor (re vikings)

 

horned helmet

 

beheading sword (tipless sword you'll probably at least have seen in GOT, would be a stellar addition to dayz for executions.)

 

 

 

 

 

suggested military/civ additions:

 

anvils 

 

compound bow

 

compound crossbow

 

ceremonial sword (barracks only)

 

Riot shield / ballistic shield (can be paired with a pistol or SMG)

 

sports javelin

 

 

 

 

note: i am aware there is already a sword. it's just not particularly dazzling, though; is it?

 

note: bleeding should probably be changed. i want to see a more organic and visible injury system with varied amounts of gore (IE a scratch VS a flesh wound VS just a flesh wound)

Edited March 2, 2015 by Wookieenoob

[DURRHUNTER 597]

Do you know anyone in real life that can do any sort of smithing? its a tad unrealistic

I wouldnt mind a officers sabre though.

[Wookieenoob 191]

Do you know anyone in real life that can do any sort of smithing? its a tad unrealistic

I wouldnt mind a officers sabre though.

 

 

i think this comes under the heading of "you could probably work it out" 

 

i believe that, and correct me if i'm wrong, there are planned "passive" skills eventually. 

 

this could be one of them. maybe you take a pickaxe and hit some rocks, get some bits of ore, and play with heating them into a mould. 

 

maybe the first try of each item is terrible and already ruined.

 

maybe to get a pristine one you need to make like 8 or 9

Edited March 2, 2015 by Wookieenoob

[DURRHUNTER 597]

i think this comes under the heading of "you could probably work it out" 

 

i believe that, and correct me if i'm wrong, there are planned "passive" skills eventually. 

 

this could be one of them. maybe you take a pickaxe and hit some rocks, get some bits of ore, and play with heating them into a mould. 

 

maybe the first try of each item is terrible and already ruined.

 

maybe to get a pristine one you need to make like 8 or 9

thats so....Skyrimish....

Do you know what iron ore looks like?

Or how hot it needs to be to be smelted, boiling point, etc.

It would be so much easier to find a piece of scrap metal and a file and make a blade out of it and put some tape on it for a handle.

 

The soft skills need to be like the ones in RO2, you can just barely notice the difference after a while.

Edited March 2, 2015 by DURRHUNTER

[Wookieenoob 191]

thats so....Skyrimish....

Do you know what iron ore looks like?

Or how hot it needs to be to be smelted, boiling point, etc.

It would be so much easier to find a piece of scrap metal and a file and make a blade out of it and put some tape on it for a handle.

 

The soft skills need to be like the ones in RO2, you can just barely notice the difference after a while.

 

or melt down the scrap

 

if there's no way to use the pickaxe as a pickaxe planned why is it there?

 

surely it's more a case of heating it until it's not solid anymore, and you'd work it out from there.

 

i don't know, 1500c? 1000c? 800c? 3000c? surely if you just keep heating it up you'll work it out. 

 

i never said what the ingredients for the forge would be. notice the anvil in the suggested items? that'd be a pain to move just on it's own, i was considering saying you might need a vehicle to move it. 

Edited March 2, 2015 by Wookieenoob

[DURRHUNTER 597]

or melt down the scrap

The thing is the only way any of this would ever come into play is if you had base building and stuff because it would take forever to require said materials for smelting and smithing.

Maybe later but not anytime soon i dont think.

[Wookieenoob 191]

The thing is the only way any of this would ever come into play is if you had base building and stuff because it would take forever to require said materials for smelting and smithing.

Maybe later but not anytime soon i dont think.

 

i don't expect this anytime within this year, or anything like it.

 

i'd expect more melee improvements before full release, though. this is just one way they could go about it. 

[IkaikaKekai 1957]

The Pickax was added as a melee and digging tool, and we can also collect rocks with it.  We already have the swords that spawn in castles, along with maces (No Katana please...to quote Max Brooks "You kinda need to be a Samurai to use a Samurai Sword effectively." and that'd be ignoring the rarity of a REAL Katana, not a BudK catalog Katana you buy for 60 bucks) even though realistically they should be rusted hunks of metal crumbs (assuming they weren't replicas).  More player crafted melee weapons would be welcome, but going all skyrim, finding deposits of undiscovered and unmined iron (and coal, I doubt you'll be able to smelt anything other than aluminum cans down with firewood) and making iron and steel daggers, swords, broadswords ect sounds like a step in the wrong direction.

 

They have mentioned more advanced crafting in the future, bit it'll be along the lines of bringing a gas powered generator to a workshop to power the equipment, using a lathe to turn wood or metal, bandsaws to cut, ect ect.  I could see doing simple forging to say melt down collected scrap metal and casting it into molds to make small parts or a blade, but not going as far as to make something as arduous as a Katana from melted down empty cans.

[Wookieenoob 191]

The Pickax was added as a melee and digging tool, and we can also collect rocks with it.  We already have the swords that spawn in castles, along with maces (No Katana please...to quote Max Brooks "You kinda need to be a Samurai to use a Samurai Sword effectively." and that'd be ignoring the rarity of a REAL Katana, not a BudK catalog Katana you buy for 60 bucks) even though realistically they should be rusted hunks of metal crumbs (assuming they weren't replicas).  More player crafted melee weapons would be welcome, but going all skyrim, finding deposits of undiscovered and unmined iron (and coal, I doubt you'll be able to smelt anything other than aluminum cans down with firewood) and making iron and steel daggers, swords, broadswords ect sounds like a step in the wrong direction.

 

They have mentioned more advanced crafting in the future, bit it'll be along the lines of bringing a gas powered generator to a workshop to power the equipment, using a lathe to turn wood or metal, bandsaws to cut, ect ect.  I could see doing simple forging to say melt down collected scrap metal and casting it into molds to make small parts or a blade, but not going as far as to make something as arduous as a Katana from melted down empty cans.

 

 

 

digging tool

 

finding deposits of undiscovered and unmined iron 

 

 

i never said that they'd be easy to find. i'd suggest adding random % spawns of iron and other minerals including but not limited to iron and coal. 

 

put these veins underground, only spawning in the correct geology hills.

 

there is currently a ready-developed mine near severograd, perhaps fill that up with ore too.

[WolfgangErikson 127]

no

[IkaikaKekai 1957]

*sigh*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_ore#Sources

[Wookieenoob 191]

*sigh*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_ore#Sources

 

okay, how about putting a book into the game with some information on bog iron 

[-Gews- 7443]

Why would you be mining for "iron ore" to craft weapons when there's metal everywhere? Just grab some leaf springs from a Ural.

[Wookieenoob 191]

Why would you be mining for "iron ore" to craft weapons when there's metal everywhere? Just grab some leaf springs from a Ural.

 

because there is a pickaxe, we already mentioned the abundance of pipes lying around. 

Edited March 2, 2015 by Wookieenoob

[AP_Norris 1018]

Recycling makes much more sense, they should add materials that burn hotter than wood for smelting and maybe a more insulated furnace. 

 

A grind wheel or other sharpening device would make a lot of sense whether or not they add smelting at all. But smelting things like nails and bullet tips would be nice.

 

Finding and refining iron ore probably just isn't worth it when you have scrap around. Although, maybe they have some at one of the quarries.

[Wookieenoob 191]

Recycling makes much more sense, they should add materials that burn hotter than wood for smelting and maybe a more insulated furnace. 

 

A grind wheel or other sharpening device would make a lot of sense whether or not they add smelting at all. But smelting things like nails and bullet tips would be nice.

 

Finding and refining iron ore probably just isn't worth it when you have scrap around. Although, maybe they have some at one of the quarries.

 

 

improvised bullet manufacturing? nice idea

[Whyherro123 2283]

Want to make a blade? Cut it out of a leafspring.

 

 

There is no need to go dig iron ore from the ground, smelt it, and try to forge it into useful things. Do you know how to use a forge? What the different grades of steel are, and more importantly, how to make them?

 

Melting down scrap won't be all that useful for making metal tools, as different tools require different hardnesses (tempers) of steel, and determining the temper of different pieces of scrap can be difficult, much less forging them together into a coherent piece and retempering it to suit. Things like leafsprings and lawn-mower blades are hard, high-carbon steel. They can make effective knife and spear blades.

 

 

Also, both railroad spikes and ball-peen hammers make for great tomahawk and hatchet heads.

 

Of course, actually learning how to make these takes time and effort, something that might (read: probably) not be possible in a post-apocalyptic environment where you aren't even sure about eating tomorrow.

 

Blacksmithing is, sadly, a dying art.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Whyherro123

[DURRHUNTER 597]

So i saw this picture and i thought about this...

see how long it takes to get the finished product? its so time consuming that unless you get some added bonus with the knife/weapon it would be almost useless.

Edited March 25, 2015 by DURRHUNTER

[wojtek678 2]

Romanes eunt domus!

[Zachy/RippahZach 4]

I thing any gun is more lethal than someone charging up to you with a sword. Anyway, DayZ isn't a game set in the medieval days, its set around the 21st century. If you had a guy with a gun, and a guy with a sword, the gun guy could just shoot the sword guy in his head, and the sword guy wouldn't have laid a hit because he needs to get close to the guy with a long-ranged weapon.

 

Maybe, however, there could be some of these types of weapons found in those old castles I see around Chernarus, along side those anvils you spoke of, but ONLY in those castles. I dont think you'd see any blacksmiths set up next to the supermarket in your real-life town, so why would they be set up in DayZ?

 

If those sorts of weapons ARE found, they would probalbly have to have a proper sheath, not just put onto the back like the average Fireman's Axe, and they would only really be useful in events that you and your friends might've set up if you were all bored.

 

But overall, I think these types of weapons would kind of be out of place in a modern, post apocolyptic world. Sorry mate, no beans from me today. 

[wojtek678 2]

I thing any gun is more lethal than someone charging up to you with a sword. Anyway, DayZ isn't a game set in the medieval days, its set around the 21st century. If you had a guy with a gun, and a guy with a sword, the gun guy could just shoot the sword guy in his head, and the sword guy wouldn't have laid a hit because he needs to get close to the guy with a long-ranged weapon.

 

Maybe, however, there could be some of these types of weapons found in those old castles I see around Chernarus, along side those anvils you spoke of, but ONLY in those castles. I dont think you'd see any blacksmiths set up next to the supermarket in your real-life town, so why would they be set up in DayZ?

 

If those sorts of weapons ARE found, they would probalbly have to have a proper sheath, not just put onto the back like the average Fireman's Axe, and they would only really be useful in events that you and your friends might've set up if you were all bored.

 

But overall, I think these types of weapons would kind of be out of place in a modern, post apocolyptic world. Sorry mate, no beans from me today. 

If you were railed in the head with a javelin from some guy in a ghillie suit, you'll see that primitive weapons are not out of place in DayZ.

I agree about the smithing being hard to implement realistically though.

[BeefBacon 1185]

We play doctor soldiers who can use every firearm we come across, know instinctively how to accurately fire a bow made from a stick and can tan leather and then make clothing from that leather while instantly repairing shattered bones with a twig and a rag.

 

Smelting is just too unrealistic.

[Whyherro123 2283]

We play doctor soldiers who can use every firearm we come across, know instinctively how to accurately fire a bow made from a stick and can tan leather and then make clothing from that leather while instantly repairing shattered bones with a twig and a rag.

 

Smelting is just too unrealistic.

 

There are players (I am one of them) who don't want to be able to do all the above things. At least, not right off the bat, with guaranteed success each time. I, for one, would LOVE to have a skill system, randomized each time you re-spawn, but apparently that is heresy to many other forumgoers.

[grimlok 77]

I vote no for one simple reason, does anyone here even know how to smith?  I sure as hell don't

[OnionOfShame 138]

I mean, this would be cool...bit it's simply not viable/realistic. No one will use this except on a modded/RP server. There's a reason we don't use medieval weapons and armor anymore. Modern equipment is superior in every way. With the effort required to smith swords, armor, and shields, they simply aren't an easier option than looting for guns and ammo. It'll be just as diffucult, but completely illogical as guns are simply better killing tools.

Edited July 18, 2015 by OnionOfShame